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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: BS Questions for WS"s III
leftoolate
♀ Member
Member # 22658
Default  Posted: 9:54 AM, October 14th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Altered, I read your question, but I can't really relate... Am trying though. Either I'll reply in a bit of time or someone that knows better will come along before that. You're heard.

~L.


If you came this far, you're looking for something. - Jrazz

Posts: 811 | Registered: Jan 2009 | From: Europe
UnexpectedSong
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Member # 21761
Default  Posted: 12:19 PM, October 14th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

willthiseverend -

Why can't they see that words and obvious remorse are much more resassuring than a willingness to clean the kitchen?

It's always a communication issue, isn't it? You need to tell him that you want him to talk to you.

On this site, it is beaten into the Waywards that actions mean more than words. That it doesn't matter what is said, the actions are what counts. Clearly, words mean a lot to you. Tell him that.


WW(SA)
"Feedback is the breakfast of champions." - Boris Becker

Posts: 6046 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: California
UnexpectedSong
♀ Member
Member # 21761
Default  Posted: 12:24 PM, October 14th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

cantbreathe09 -

how did they help you overcome this addiction

Several things had to happen to help me.

(1) One poster here mentioned "triggers" and that's when I realized that there were specific, discrete events that made me want to tall the xOM (driving without music, for example).

(2) Reading about addiction - how to quit cold turkey requires a lot of teeth gritting.

(3) My husband said I was to tell him when I felt like contacting the xOM - I did it a couple of times, got slammed by him, and resolved never to tell him again (and thus, in a way, drive out the want to contact the xOM).

(4) My husband threatened divorce and that he would take the kids away.

To be honest, I think it was really just that last one.

But you have to mean it.

[This message edited by UnexpectedSong at 12:25 PM, October 14th (Wednesday)]


WW(SA)
"Feedback is the breakfast of champions." - Boris Becker

Posts: 6046 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: California
luvedmypbear
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Member # 25690
Default  Posted: 4:14 PM, October 14th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Please take this question seriously....I was surprised by the responses I got to it on another board a few months ago:

My FWH had sex with his affair partner in 3 locations: our BFF's garage, spare bedrooom and in the parking garage at our local airport. During the 1 1/2 years I did not know about the affair, FWH, (who had started and ended the P portion of the affair within a few weeks due to the fact that she was only visiting from out of state), always wanted to have sex with me in those locations.

Is this something any WS can speak to as a normal thing to do? My IC tells me it was his way of showing remorse and pushing the guilty feelings away. My FWH told me (after I figured it out) that he was trying to rewrite memories of her with memories of me doing the same things so he could live in a world where he didn't do what he did....


What do you think???

[This message edited by luvedmypbear at 4:16 PM, October 14th (Wednesday)]


D-Day July 14, 2009
3 kids (B7, G6, B2)
BW, 37
D and healing, one day at a time

Posts: 1030 | Registered: Sep 2009
blueskycentral
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Member # 22240
Default  Posted: 9:37 PM, October 14th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

BS here.

My WW had sex in 2 public parks. I actually thought about going there to reclaim it.
No way, I could not do it....it's a lose / lose proposition.

Here's why I reasoned.

While at the park, if we bagan to have sex, and she underresponded, I would feel she enjoyed it more with OM.
If she seemed very excited, I would assume that she is very turned on by public sex, and that she must have been lovin her escapades w/OM.
I could not imagine a perfect scenario for reclaiming it, and furthermore, the somewhat recreation of a sex act at the same locale is a trigger fest.

However, I feel that your husband honestly wants to reclaim them with you. He wants you in his memory. He wants to replace that memory. But, I don't feel it will be effective-IMHO.


Posts: 548 | Registered: Dec 2008 | From: Central NJ
leftoolate
♀ Member
Member # 22658
Default  Posted: 9:42 AM, October 15th (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi Luvedmypbear,

Normal may not be the most accurate term here, but I can definitely relate to your husband's actions and reasoning. For me it was during trickle truth rather than the actual affair, but I too wanted to 'overwrite' the experiences with the other man with similar but better experiences with my own husband.

I can sort of agree with both your counsellor and your husband in that it serves as a kind of cleansing/rededication ceremony. It doesn't always work though.

Perhaps TMI but I only felt worse after giving my husband a quickie surprise bj. It didn't replace or displace the other one at all. Didn't do that again, stuck to what I know and love about bjs, to take my time.

However, for texting, it worked like a charm. Now I associate texting with my husband and our connection, even though I started frequent texting during the affair, with the other man.

So, it does appear normal, but please don't take it lightly. Each and any instant can still be examined on its own 'merits'...

~L.


If you came this far, you're looking for something. - Jrazz

Posts: 811 | Registered: Jan 2009 | From: Europe
leftoolate
♀ Member
Member # 22658
Default  Posted: 10:23 AM, October 15th (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Well, Altered, it seems we're all still brooding on your question. Here's what I focused on in thinking over your post:

The thing that bothers me is Pre-A, FWH was doing favors household stuff, fixing things for not only OW, but other W friends, his cell was lit up all hours with friends, mostly women, with just everything from shoulder crying to chit-chat.

Keeping this in mind, I find the following disturbing:

But, it seems like things are sliding slowly back to pre-A.

It could be that you're triggering and/or over reacting. But (big but) if you were, your husband should be able to adequately appease your worries. He's not. To you it looks like he's displaying pre-A behaviours. To me, it looks like he's displaying the precursors to A-behaviour. It amounts to the same thing, really. Not all people who drink beer become alcoholics,but every alcoholic started with one drink. Your husband has demonstrated that he can go far past the boundaries of healthy interactions. He shouldn't be having any drinks, metaphorically speaking. Did he (or both of you) identify the underlying traits that lead him to do what he did? Is he aware of the 'rescuer-tendencies' that are so obvious in your description?

What worked for us/me was to identify the defective-behaviour-train first (in reverse: kiss-touch-alone in a noisy bar-male/female combo-personal conversation with a coworker) and stay away from the first steps. Then, I traced the outline of the actual boundaries (for me it's being in a private situation with a male aquaintance).

Now, after much thinking and some fundamental changes, I believe I wouldn't cross into the next step in the chain, even if I were to walk right up to the boundary. I'm different now, so it would take a different situation to get me to cross boundaries. I believe I've limited those conditions dramatically.

It all started with identifying the specific missteps and making a conscious effort to

a. Stay clear of those and
b. Change the personality traits that made me vulnerable to those missteps

I told FWH that I would have felt more comfortable if he called before doing the car repair, and FWH said that he thought he had done so well, calling me after, staying outside. I feel like I am being too nit-picky, demanding, but I can't deny my feelings.

Alright, so commend him for calling at all, then tell him what you would like him to do in similar future situations. Perhaps you should mention the salient points (to define 'similar'). That's nit picking, but if you don't pick the nits you'll find lice next (I'm starting to itch here). You can ask nicely, but why shouldn't you demand this? Are you worried that you'll ruin your connection? That he'll run a mile?

Keeping things bottled up did not help our marriage. What do I do? Ask him to tell his friends not to call in the evening? Be "mean mommy"?

Hmm, you're obviously not his mommy... Does the Knight in Shining Armour really need the damsel to tell him what to do? Or are you still the Evil Queen of the Castle?

What I might do in such a situation is ask him to determine where his priorities lie with every phone call and request for help. The people calling and asking aren't the problem - his response is. That way he can hold on to the phone and still say no to most (if not all) of the pity-pleas.

UGH!!!!

No kidding... Good luck, Altered!

~L.


If you came this far, you're looking for something. - Jrazz

Posts: 811 | Registered: Jan 2009 | From: Europe
luvedmypbear
♀ Member
Member # 25690
Default  Posted: 10:46 AM, October 15th (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thank you blueskycentral and leftoolate,

FWH never and I never did it in the BFF's garage, but we did at the airport and in the spare bedroom...where we were spending the night anyway. During our 10 years together, we have had sex in much more public and strange places so I was a willing participant.

I did, however, become rather angry when I read the emails between FMOW and my FWH becuase I realized what he was doing and felt used for his selfish reasons. It also made me feel like he had decided not to tell me, rather, rewrite history and continue lying to both of us.


It doesn't really matter at this point, as we are working on R. It just seemed like odd behavior and I was wondering if any of you had experienced it. Thank you for your comments!


D-Day July 14, 2009
3 kids (B7, G6, B2)
BW, 37
D and healing, one day at a time

Posts: 1030 | Registered: Sep 2009
cantbreathe09
♂ Member
Member # 24600
Default  Posted: 6:27 PM, October 15th (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

to all that replied to my previous post, I thank you and respect that fact that you have realized what you have done and now are helping all the BS's.

Today my WW told me that she doesn't know how to end it and that she has more feelings for him than I. She says mostly due to the fact that I was snooping, not trusting her completly, and actually confronting her about it. While all the long we were in false R.
Have any of you FWS's told your BS things like this? Also, have any of your A's been long term, and if so what made you see that you BS was the one who was really for you? Did your BS do anything to make realize this or was it all on you?



Cry now...smile later.

Posts: 66 | Registered: Jun 2009 | From: Holloman AFB, NM
UnexpectedSong
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Member # 21761
Default  Posted: 10:05 PM, October 15th (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

cantbreathe09 -

what made you see that you BS was the one who was really for you? Did your BS do anything to make realize this or was it all on you?

You need to 180 your wife. You cannot make her love you, you cannot make her realize that you are the one for her. You cannot control her feelings. You really can't.

There is no amount of wooing that will bring her back.

I never stopped loving my husband, but let me tell you... in the first few months after dday, the absolutely most irritating things he did were to plan special dates, overnight getaways, all that kind of stuff.

The WW is foggy, thinking about the OM, and all the courting from the BH is just really irritating. It feels forced, it feels manipulative, it really makes a person not want to be there.

(I do understand the WW is at fault - she has/had the affair, she is the one who cheated. I understand your point of view, too. I am just telling you how she feels right now.)

Now, if this is truly an exit A, all of your courting will not get her back. If this is not an exit A, your courting will not get her back.

You have to 180 her. You have to get stronger, do stuff for yourself, go out with your friends, exercise, do things for yourself. That is the most effective way of changing the environment so that she will look at you and wonder what is going on.

Don't beg. Don't reason. That just makes you look weak.

I know that's not what you want to hear and I know you are angry at the injustice of it all. I am just telling you that that does NOT work.

ETA: I did not "go back" to my H because he courted me. I went back because I wanted to.

[This message edited by UnexpectedSong at 10:12 PM, October 15th (Thursday)]


WW(SA)
"Feedback is the breakfast of champions." - Boris Becker

Posts: 6046 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: California
SI Staff
Moderator
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Red  Posted: 8:22 AM, October 16th (Friday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Just a reminder that these are questions for WS to answer. There should be no BS answering questions on this thread.

Posts: 10000 | Registered: May 2002
Kwills
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Member # 13172
Default  Posted: 9:20 AM, October 16th (Friday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

never stopped loving my husband, but let me tell you... in the first few months after dday, the absolutely most irritating things he did were to plan special dates, overnight getaways, all that kind of stuff.

The WW is foggy, thinking about the OM, and all the courting from the BH is just really irritating. It feels forced, it feels manipulative, it really makes a person not want to be there.

I felt exactly this same way as Unexpected Song. I needed a lot mroe time before I was ready for that type of thing, especially since we never were a big "date night" type of couple.

Thankfully my FBH's hobbies took him away for awhile and let us each have some time & space to sort the stuff out.

Kwills


Posts: 1052 | Registered: Jan 2007
Maia
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Member # 8268
Default  Posted: 11:45 AM, October 16th (Friday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

my H romanced me after Dday and I felt "fought for" where before I had really felt...sort of ...not seen. Like I was an afterthought. But I took his actions as sincere and not as manipulation (and they were sincere) and that is the difference.


We will miss you Unicornsearcher. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Xf-Lesrkuc

Posts: 6152 | Registered: Sep 2005 | From: I am a Bluegrass-American
hurting2much
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Member # 25643
Default  Posted: 3:11 PM, October 16th (Friday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Not really sure if I am breaking the rules, as I do not want to t/j, but I do have a question for WS's to answer:

Was there anything that your spouse did, to help you out of your "fog"?


Divorced

Posts: 1096 | Registered: Sep 2009
Kwills
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Member # 13172
Default  Posted: 10:00 PM, October 16th (Friday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Was there anything that your spouse did, to help you out of your "fog"?

Nope, had to get there for myself. I personally believe that trying to change someone's mind is like trying to push a string--doesn't work very well. They have to come to some realizations by themselves.

I think I had to get to the point where I saw & felt that the costs of the A outweighed the benefits. The pain I was in and the pain I and FOM were causing was too much. It had to end.

Kwills


Posts: 1052 | Registered: Jan 2007
Maia
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Member # 8268
Default  Posted: 11:20 AM, October 17th (Saturday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Was there anything that your spouse did, to help you out of your "fog"?

absolutely.

My H made me talk to him. He asked a lot of questions and as he saw lies that I believed, errors in my assumptions and thinking, he pointed them out, fought to help me see truth.

example.

my xOM was an ex-bf, I had this "Notebook" kind of romantic thing going for him. H said he did not even know me. This was very early, when I was still in choice mode and not NC. So I actually quizzed xOM, and asked him 10 questions... things that as an xBF and 5 year confidante, he should have known without even thinking. you know, like those silly email quizzes you forward to friends?

He didn't know one darn thing.

I could tell you about his mom and dad, what his middle name was, what kind of shampoo he used and why, about his siblings, about his habits, his noises, lots of minutia.

He didn't even know the name of my best friend or my middle name.

you know why?

because it was a lie. my whole fantasy world was exactly that, something I had concocted in my head, and the person I thought I knew wasn't even real. It was a role he played to get ...kicks? I dunno. Anyhow.

that was really key.

it is only one example, but basically my H listened to me very closely and wherever I had faulty perceptions or thinking, he would challenge that. It provoked me to continue to discover more lies, to dig them up on my own and to replace them with truth.

He also prayed for me. A lot.

peace.



We will miss you Unicornsearcher. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Xf-Lesrkuc

Posts: 6152 | Registered: Sep 2005 | From: I am a Bluegrass-American
imscared_k
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Member # 14061
Default  Posted: 11:35 AM, October 17th (Saturday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Was there anything that your spouse did, to help you out of your "fog"?

While there was nothing he could do to speed up the process he did call me out on my actions. He put a line in the sand regarding broken NC, insisted on transprancy, and told me when I wasn't pulling my share of the load in the relationship.


Posts: 1059 | Registered: Mar 2007
Maia
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Member # 8268
Default  Posted: 11:41 AM, October 17th (Saturday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

During the A, did any of you feel a sort of thrill at tricking your BS?

it made me want to vomit and commit suicide. I was absolutely devastated by the way it made me feel. I would stand there and inwardly beat myself ... "Quit effing this up" and at the exact same time... feel completely the opposite as well... like I could not change. Like I could not give up the xOM... the duality and equal strength of the opposing and conflicting desires were quite literally making me insane. But no I hated the deception, utterly hated it.

if I hadn't hated it I probably would not have gotten out, I think hating lies so much helped save me.


We will miss you Unicornsearcher. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Xf-Lesrkuc

Posts: 6152 | Registered: Sep 2005 | From: I am a Bluegrass-American
Tnkrbell23
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Member # 22181
Default  Posted: 11:54 PM, October 18th (Sunday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Question for any FWH. - When you think about your infidelity, is there any part of you that is glad you did it? I feel like my FWH wanted the experience, took the chance, and I am just learning about addiction/alcoholism and his being under the influence. Many mind games in my head....

Posts: 64 | Registered: Dec 2008 | From: L.A.
bdotoole
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Member # 25213
Suspicious  Posted: 12:00 PM, October 19th (Monday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Another question for the WSs out there...thanks in advance for answering..OK now I think I have heard it all....speaking to WS last evening aout the fact he broke NC with approximately 6 phones calls (busted via cell phone bill) he made 4-7 weeks after Dday while we were supposedly in R (although now I know it was false R). He actually told me he was seeking out advice from her on how he could fix it for us since she was the only woman that new about the affir and what he had done. He said he needed a wman's perspective. Of course I threw out all of the how could you lie about NC, seek out the one person that had hurt me the most for advice ect ect ect. Please is there a WS out there this makes even an ounce of sense to? Did you ever seek advice for R from the AP after dday and nc was supposedly in place. Even foggy this whole concept seems so completely absurd to me.....is he just lying again or he doesn't remember and ahs to say something in response. How stupid does he think I am that that women would help "us" in anyway ???? Wow WSs are really out of their minds sometimes aren't they.....

Posts: 25 | Registered: Aug 2009
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