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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: BS Questions for WS"s III
EmptyCup
♀ Member
Member # 22909
Default  Posted: 12:04 PM, October 19th (Monday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Tnkrbell23 - there is no part of me that is glad I did it!

However, given that this is the path that led us to this wonderful second chance we have, I wouldn't go back in time and change things either.


FWW, reconciled with my best friend <3

Nothing much but love to give you, even less have I to hide - Tim O'Brien


Posts: 1140 | Registered: Feb 2009
EmptyCup
♀ Member
Member # 22909
Default  Posted: 12:10 PM, October 19th (Monday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

bdotoole - that sounds like fog, like he couldn't stand up to the addiction and give her up cold turkey. I also felt like that after d-day and thought we could be friends. We did support each other in our marriages after d-day (we were in occasional contact for around a month after d-day).

It wasn't until I was completely out of the fog that I realized how much bs that all was. Yes, WSs are often out of their minds. I'm thankful every single day for the strength of my BS in staying with me and working through it until I came back to my senses.


FWW, reconciled with my best friend <3

Nothing much but love to give you, even less have I to hide - Tim O'Brien


Posts: 1140 | Registered: Feb 2009
EmptyCup
♀ Member
Member # 22909
Default  Posted: 12:15 PM, October 19th (Monday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Was there anything that your spouse did, to help you out of your "fog"?

Nope, had to get there for myself. I personally believe that trying to change someone's mind is like trying to push a string--doesn't work very well. They have to come to some realizations by themselves.

It was like this for me too. I had to realize how much of it was just a fantasy in my head concocted to fill my own neurotic needs.

[This message edited by EmptyCup at 12:16 PM, October 19th (Monday)]


FWW, reconciled with my best friend <3

Nothing much but love to give you, even less have I to hide - Tim O'Brien


Posts: 1140 | Registered: Feb 2009
Sandcrab
♀ Member
Member # 10067
Default  Posted: 1:04 PM, October 19th (Monday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Today my WW told me that she doesn't know how to end it

I didn't know how either. I tried three times and it never stopped until my husband called the XOM. That was the day NC started and has never been broken.

if so what made you see that you BS was the one who was really for you?

I always knew that my husband was the one for me. I was just thinking wrong during the A. My husband still has a hard time understanding this.

[This message edited by Sandcrab at 1:09 PM, October 19th (Monday)]


I ♥ LostJim

Adopt a chihuahua in your area
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Posts: 5618 | Registered: Mar 2006 | From: wishing I was on an ocean beach somewhere...
morningside
♀ Member
Member # 23765
Default  Posted: 9:08 PM, October 21st (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My WH is coming out of his fog - he still drifts in and out a little but less intensely and for shorter periods. I feel we are at a cross road.

I'm trying to understand though - is it scarey and risky to try to R as a WS?


Mum (30) of 3 little boys 7ys and under
Together for 12 years, M for 9 yrs
D-Day 14/03/09 - found out about first 3 A's (starting during engagement in 2000).
D-Day 2 04/09 - A #4 and now with OW #4
Status: S 15 Mar 09 - in different countries

Posts: 161 | Registered: Apr 2009 | From: Australia
quirkina
♀ Member
Member # 22119
Default  Posted: 10:19 PM, October 21st (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My H announced he was leaving to "get himself together" approximately 3 weeks ago. Still no movement out. But if the topic is brought up he gets very angry and starts yelling about how he can't stand it here and needs to leave. But....still....here.
Is he waiting for me to kick him out?

Posts: 402 | Registered: Dec 2008
2stickinthere
♂ Member
Member # 24439
Default  Posted: 8:44 AM, October 22nd (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

i'm going to have a talk(long hard one) with my WS saturday. long story short, she contacted OM thru facebook email that she needed to talk. reason was rumer at work and her boss was looking for answers and looking to see if harrasment charges are going to be filed. she wanted to know his side of things but didn't consult me first. i found out by checking computer history. this is where our talk is going to go. she still has a big problem with my need to check what she's doing.

what where the proper steps to the WS's to be able to understand and accept this need to be trasparent? was there a need to establish a balance, or did you just have to accept your bs was going thru your stuff? it seems to be a big problem for her and she feels that i'm controling her. i want to percede with caution until she can realize my needs of rebuilding trust. i told her what she has shown me and trust is developed by what you see, not hear. i told her after i seen the A, and flirting, and hiding, i need to see that these things have stoped. i can't see them if there exists ways of hinding things from me.

any advise?


Posts: 96 | Registered: Jun 2009
Sandcrab
♀ Member
Member # 10067
Default  Posted: 9:22 AM, October 22nd (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

morningside
is it scarey and risky to try to R as a WS?

Yes it is scarey, you don't know if you come clean and do the work if your spouse will stay or not. I always worried if I told the truth that my husband would leave. It ended up that he didn't but I was still very scared that he would.


I ♥ LostJim

Adopt a chihuahua in your area
http://adopt-a-chihuahua.adoptapet.com/


Posts: 5618 | Registered: Mar 2006 | From: wishing I was on an ocean beach somewhere...
Sandcrab
♀ Member
Member # 10067
Default  Posted: 9:25 AM, October 22nd (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

quirkina
if the topic is brought up he gets very angry and starts yelling about how he can't stand it here and needs to leave.

If he were serious I think he would have gone. Sounds like he is putting up a smoke screen to get you to stop asking questions.

Write your questions out and see if he will answer them in writing.

[This message edited by Sandcrab at 9:25 AM, October 22nd (Thursday)]


I ♥ LostJim

Adopt a chihuahua in your area
http://adopt-a-chihuahua.adoptapet.com/


Posts: 5618 | Registered: Mar 2006 | From: wishing I was on an ocean beach somewhere...
Sandcrab
♀ Member
Member # 10067
Default  Posted: 9:30 AM, October 22nd (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

2stickinthere

Has she read Joseph's letter?
http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/healing_library/confrontation/joseph.asp
Have you established NC?

My husband told me up front that he would go through the computer and my things if he wanted to. Yes it felt like I was being controlled and even felt like my privacy was being violated. But that was the price I had to pay for what I had done. I became use to it and it really doesn't bother me anymore. But of course it wouldn't since I am not doing anything wrong.

[This message edited by Sandcrab at 9:59 AM, October 22nd (Thursday)]


I ♥ LostJim

Adopt a chihuahua in your area
http://adopt-a-chihuahua.adoptapet.com/


Posts: 5618 | Registered: Mar 2006 | From: wishing I was on an ocean beach somewhere...
icbtih8
♀ Member
Member # 23797
Default  Posted: 10:10 AM, October 22nd (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

i don't quite remember if this question was asked before or not but:

why do some WS expect something completely different than they've given their BS, things like fidelity, compassion, love, etc, and get angry or frustrated when the BS says something that is not along those lines?

when i tell him i'm going to start putting myself first before his needs, he gets angry or upset or frustrated, as if he expects me to continue to help him heal and leave my healing aside.

[This message edited by icbtih8 at 1:42 PM, October 22nd (Thursday)]


D-day #1 - April 29, 2009

Beauty is a calling...a call "to transfigure what has harden or was wounded within you"
-- John O'Donohue


Posts: 5424 | Registered: Apr 2009
quirkina
♀ Member
Member # 22119
Default  Posted: 12:10 PM, October 22nd (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

sandcrab: my questions are logistical--like when are you going--what exactly should we tell the kids, etc. etc. These are things he should have thought about if he is so all fired up to go. Secondly he keeps saying that it is short term--how can it be short term or any term if we aren't in MC any longer.
Do WS do this sort of thing to keep the situation tame and not escalate--or is he actually of the belief that he can leave and then return still denying that his EA is continuing????

Posts: 402 | Registered: Dec 2008
Sandcrab
♀ Member
Member # 10067
Default  Posted: 12:23 PM, October 22nd (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

quirkina

I don't know of any WS's that do that unless they are making a smoke screen to difuse the situation.

It sounds like you need to draw you line in the sand. If you want him to leave tell him to leave by a certain date. If you want him to make the decision tell him you want a decision by a certain date or for him to leave.

Don't give in. You need to keep your word when you give him an ultimatum.

He probably thinks that you will not let him leave and he can do whatever because that is what he has been doing.

Have you tried the 180 with him?


I ♥ LostJim

Adopt a chihuahua in your area
http://adopt-a-chihuahua.adoptapet.com/


Posts: 5618 | Registered: Mar 2006 | From: wishing I was on an ocean beach somewhere...
Sandcrab
♀ Member
Member # 10067
Default  Posted: 12:26 PM, October 22nd (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

quirkina

he keeps saying that it is short term

This sounds like a cake eater saying. (sorry)

He needs to make up his mind and either be with you and do the things that he needs to do to make you feel better or leave.


I ♥ LostJim

Adopt a chihuahua in your area
http://adopt-a-chihuahua.adoptapet.com/


Posts: 5618 | Registered: Mar 2006 | From: wishing I was on an ocean beach somewhere...
quirkina
♀ Member
Member # 22119
Default  Posted: 12:33 PM, October 22nd (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

He is a cake eater--totally--he was given a choice me or her months ago: chose me--big deal because from that moment on he acted like a sad scared coward and never did one thing to alieviate the situation or make things better for me. It was all about his feelings and his unhappiness with himself. I want him to leave--this isn't a good situation for anyone--and he is still in contact with the OP--but denying it. So it is just impossible. I don't know if it is the fog, smog, or what--but I sort of don't care anymore--
Shouldn't he just get on his high horse and leave?

Posts: 402 | Registered: Dec 2008
Sandcrab
♀ Member
Member # 10067
Default  Posted: 12:54 PM, October 22nd (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

He should but he isn't going to as long as you let him stay and put up with what he is doing. That is why I said draw your line in the sand. Give him a date that you want him to leave.

If you don't the same situation will continue unless he decides to start making better decisions.


I ♥ LostJim

Adopt a chihuahua in your area
http://adopt-a-chihuahua.adoptapet.com/


Posts: 5618 | Registered: Mar 2006 | From: wishing I was on an ocean beach somewhere...
UnexpectedSong
♀ Member
Member # 21761
Default  Posted: 1:17 PM, October 22nd (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

bdotoole -

He actually told me he was seeking out advice from her on how he could fix it for us since she was the only woman that new about the affir and what he had done.

I know this sounds completely unreasonable to you... but the WS at some point, to some degree, thinks of the AP as a friend. The xOM and I talked a lot and I thought of him as a friend, so it "felt natural" that I would want to talk to him about this... especially since he was part of the whole thing.

Of course I threw out all of the how could you lie about NC, seek out the one person that had hurt me the most for advice ect ect ect.

In a way, you have to treat this as an addiction. The spouse says, if you really loved me, you would stop drinking. An alcoholic thinks, just because I drink doesn't mean I don't love you. This is a good description of the mindset of the Wayward.

Even foggy this whole concept seems so completely absurd to me.....

Well, it is absurd. An affair is absurd.

How stupid does he think I am that that women would help "us" in anyway ????

I don't think he thinks you're stupid at all. He probably thinks of her as a "safe" place to talk about his hurts and feelings and of what's going on.

Wow WSs are really out of their minds sometimes aren't they.....

Yes, some certainly are. However, I hope those of us here are not anymore.

[This message edited by UnexpectedSong at 1:17 PM, October 22nd (Thursday)]


WW(SA)
"Feedback is the breakfast of champions." - Boris Becker

Posts: 6046 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: California
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 1:41 PM, October 22nd (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

morningside -

is it scarey and risky to try to R as a WS?

Absolutely. Because a WS can do everything "right" to try to fix things, and still have a BS who just can't recover from the damage that was done. With that said, when a WS is fully remorseful for their actions, they take that leap despite the fear because their BS is worth every effort on their part.


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 1:50 PM, October 22nd (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

quirkina -

Is he waiting for me to kick him out?

I'll take another angle on this from sandy's (which was really well explained). There are two additional angles that could be in play here. And both would have been ones I would have taken if my BW was not firm in what her boundaries were and what she expected of me.

One is the fear that if he leaves, he looks like the bad guy. A lot of my A was based on the need for others to define who I was (good guy or bad guy). I couldn't be confident enough in myself to know that some would view me as being bad but that didn't make me a bad person. So my preference would have been to have my BW throw me out. That would mean I could show everyone else that she was the one making the choice and it was out of my control.

The other problem I had was a sometimes paralyzing fear of conflict. So rather than face conflict head on I'd find a path around it as much as possible. So rather than leave and create conflict, I'd leave it alone unless I was tossed. Then again, I could leave with my tail between my legs and blame my BW for my woes.

None of that happened, because my BW was very clear after D-Day. I was either "all in" trying to repair our M or the M was over. I had to fully commit - which meant not only NC and transparency but I had to find the counseling options and schedule things. That was an incredible blessing, because it set the stage for saving our M, and my life.


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 2:00 PM, October 22nd (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

2stick -

what where the proper steps to the WS's to be able to understand and accept this need to be trasparent?

Ditto the suggestion to leverage Joseph's Letter. For that matter, just cull through some posts in JFO or General, and share some that show where a BS was getting signs that things were getting better only to have a second D-Day.

I volunteered full transparency to my BW after there was a questionable set of calls on my cell bill. Just seeing the pain she was in was enough to cause me to offer it. She didn't ask, and in a way I'm glad I had the chance to offer it freely.

When a WS talks about the feeling of being controlled, there's still a lingering piece of fog around. Because a person fully committed to their spouse would understand that there is no reason for anything to be hidden.

Most importantly, I would share the reminder that in order for R to work you have to face things as a team. It's the two of you against the challenges of the world. If she is facing harrassment charges, that impacts you both and not just her. So why hide the inquiry from you instead of handling it together?


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
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