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User Topic: BS Questions for WS"s III
icbtih8
♀ Member
Member # 23797
Default  Posted: 10:20 AM, November 18th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Question #1: what are the chances that after 6 months post d-day and about after 3 months of IC going once every 2 - 3 weeks, a WS has done the necessary introspection and work to "fix" whatever was broken inside?

Question #2: and when will the foggy comments like the one above end?

Question #3: assuming the WS is remorseful and really wants to change, do you think being with a supportive BS has helped you heal faster than if you had to do the work alone?

TIA


D-day #1 - April 29, 2009

Beauty is a calling...a call "to transfigure what has harden or was wounded within you"
-- John O'Donohue


Posts: 5424 | Registered: Apr 2009
MissesJai
♀ Member
Member # 24849
Default  Posted: 11:47 AM, November 18th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Sad in AZ ~
How did you finally see that your EA partner was not a friend to you or your marriage? What opened your eyes?

It actually took a while but it was during a conversation I was having with one of my girlfriends and we were talking about xOM breaking NC and his claim that he cared about me and loved me. Out of nowhere, I got angry and told her that if he cared about me and loved me like he claimed, he would respect my demand for NC; he would NOT try to contact me because he already knows that I’m fighting like hell to save my M (when I went fully NC I told him that I wanted my M) and if he felt the way he claimed, he would want what’s best for me and my family – and that would be saving my M. No, he doesn’t love me or care about me – he loves and cares about himself. Then I said, “so fuck him” – it felt REALLY good.

cantbreathe ~

Have any of you FWW's done or said the same? Have you carried on with the A, until you figured things out?

I told BH that I wanted our marriage and that I was willing to do whatever it took to fix myself and the M. I immediately went into IC. As for carrying on the A, hell no – There’s no way I could have continued the A after D-Day. I felt horrible about what I had done and didn’t need time to figure anything out. My input on this is – your FWW’s ACTIONS will tell you all you need to know.

She is going to her parents and she says she'll go to IC, and I heard a few conversations when she is talking to OM, and it doesn't sound like she wants to end it.

She’s still talking to OM, she’s moved out of your home – she’s still very much in the A. What you’re hearing is that she doesn’t want to end it – that’s why she’s so confused. She’s being a cake eater. Don’t let her. Don’t give her time to figure it out – do the 180, get an attorney, and start living your life. You cannot control her actions but you can control yours. I am willing to bet that once she sees that you’re taking the necessary steps to move on, she’ll snap out of it, or not. Either way, focus on you.

Uggh ~

Did you know right away that you wanted to commit to saving your marriages?

Yes – immediately.

My WW is in MC and IC and is "trying to make this work." To me, though, it seems like she is ambivalent or less than fully committed. Is this a bad sign at the one month mark? Is it too soon for me to panic?

Yes, it is too soon for you to panic. Affairs, including the OM, are like drugs. It takes time to withdraw and one month is still early in the process. Hell, it’s still early for you too. The road to recovery is a long and winding one but hang in there. If your WW is in MC and IC and is truly committed to making it work, things will get better, her ambivalence will decrease and she’ll begin to see the depths of her betrayal (this is all assuming there’s great counselors in play and that she is 100% committed to R).

Icbtih8 ~

Question #1: what are the chances that after 6 months post d-day and about after 3 months of IC going once every 2 - 3 weeks, a WS has done the necessary introspection and work to "fix" whatever was broken inside?

Not possible, IMO. From someone who is extensively broken inside, there is no way in hell I could have made that much progress in IC in 3 months. In fact, if I’m reading this right, in 3 months, having gone once every 2-3 weeks, there’s really only been about 4-6 IC sessions – which is NOTHING when you think about the amount of work, introspection, learning, reflection, etc., that needs to be done in order to truly transform oneself. I’ve been in IC since April, going once every 2-3 weeks and shit, I’ve just scratched the surface. I’m starting IC every other week starting next Saturday and will go for as long as necessary. I’ve read about WS’s that have been in IC for 18 months – I can definitely see how that happens.

Question #2: and when will the foggy comments like the one above end?

There’s no way to tell, honestly. I wish I could offer you more than that…

Question #3: assuming the WS is remorseful and really wants to change, do you think being with a supportive BS has helped you heal faster than if you had to do the work alone?

Oh yes. The support I’ve gotten from my BH has been instrumental to my own personal healing and growth. In the beginning, he wasn’t as supportive but he was so hurt so I can see why he wouldn’t want to support the person who hurt him more than anyone else ever had. As time passes, he has seen my dedication to change and willingness to do the hard work necessary, so his support continues to grow.


FWW - 40
Nobody can make you feel inferior without your consent...

Posts: 5532 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: So Cal.....
Card
♂ Member
Member # 23667
Default  Posted: 1:50 PM, November 18th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Finesse026,

You have an ACTIVE wayward that is not willing to be NC.

You are effectively dealing with an addict that doesn't want to give up his drugs. They will lie, con, cheat, manipulate, bargain, etc. You cannot negotiate with an addict that is still high, or a drunk that is still drunk, or a wayward that is still in contact. It just won't work.

Your H is a terrorist at this time and you CANNOT negotiate with terrorists.

The best thing that happened during my A was for my wife to stop playing "my" games. She read 2 important books for herself. The first was by Dr. James Dobson, "Love Must Be Tough", and the second was by Dr. Willard Harley, "Surviving An Affair". She found most of the plan of action that she worked to be in "Surviving An Affair".

Finesse026, waywards will protect the A at all costs and are blind to the consequences because of the fog/tunnel vision/selfishness/alien abduction/etc.


WH (me)
BS (her)

D-Days April - Oct. 2007 Recovery started Nov. 2007

"Found Myself", I was right there in my shoes all along!
Search for self called off!

Why Repentance Is Necessary? Because Undeserved Mercy Empowers Entitlement/Sin


Posts: 570 | Registered: Apr 2009
Card
♂ Member
Member # 23667
Default  Posted: 8:14 PM, November 18th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

icbtih8,

Question #1: what are the chances that after 6 months post d-day and about after 3 months of IC going once every 2 - 3 weeks, a WS has done the necessary introspection and work to "fix" whatever was broken inside?
Question #2: and when will the foggy comments like the one above end?

I assume that, based on question 2, your FWH is saying he has done all he needs to do???

I am of the opinion that he needs to be asking YOU how you feel he is doing in recovery. Then he can make adjustments accordingly.

Still sounds foggy to me!


On a seperate note, I did not do IC. My wife and I agreed that IC would be dangerous for me. IC would want the focus to be on me, me, me and we needed to learn to focus on us and the state of the M. We used the "Marriage Builders Program" to achieve this goal.


Question #3: assuming the WS is remorseful and really wants to change, do you think being with a supportive BS has helped you heal faster than if you had to do the work alone?

My wife and I supported one another 100%.

You cannot work on restoring a marriage alone!


WH (me)
BS (her)

D-Days April - Oct. 2007 Recovery started Nov. 2007

"Found Myself", I was right there in my shoes all along!
Search for self called off!

Why Repentance Is Necessary? Because Undeserved Mercy Empowers Entitlement/Sin


Posts: 570 | Registered: Apr 2009
njgal480
♀ Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 12:32 AM, November 19th (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Almost 3 yrs post d-day and I still have some nagging questions.....

#1- How is it possible to completely break off all ties with the affair partner right after d-day and never look back?

My husband had a 5 yr long affair with a married co-worker....
she pursued him relentlessly... I have the emails to prove that....
D-day was New Years...the month before (Dec.) they had a ton of contact...had gone away for together for two nights... emails...phone calls... lunches...
it was still hot and heavy 5 yrs into the affair...
and then d-day...
all hell broke loose...
I kicked my husband out, filed for divorce...we were separated for 5 months.
But, from day one he was pleading for me to take him back!
And... I have definitive proof (from the OW's husband) that there was zero contact between the two of them after d-day.

How is that possible? You pursue each other like nuts for 5 yrs. You see each other almost every day at work. You go away on work trips etc.
and then.... nothing?
not a phone call? nothing?

I spoke to the OW after d-day. I was very calm... trying to get info. She said nothing. No apology. Nothing. Said he loved only me and that they were just very ,very good friends.....

I told her she could have him... we were separated... in fact he was extremely depressed, and needed someone to talk to...that his doctor was concerned he was suicidal...she said nothing ....

and...she never contacted him again......

I need some WS to try to put this in perspective for me...
it's one of the questions that has been driving me crazy...
It just doesn't make sense...


Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
Card
♂ Member
Member # 23667
Default  Posted: 3:00 PM, November 19th (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

How is that possible? You pursue each other like nuts for 5 yrs. You see each other almost every day at work. You go away on work trips etc.
and then.... nothing?
not a phone call? nothing?

njgal480,

I don't want this to sound wrong, but there is no easier way to say this.

Your H wasn't done with you or your marriage. He never intended the A to replace the M. He wanted both!


It is obvious that he has chosen what he really wanted all along, YOU.

I'm sorry this still nags at you so. Wishing you well!


WH (me)
BS (her)

D-Days April - Oct. 2007 Recovery started Nov. 2007

"Found Myself", I was right there in my shoes all along!
Search for self called off!

Why Repentance Is Necessary? Because Undeserved Mercy Empowers Entitlement/Sin


Posts: 570 | Registered: Apr 2009
Finesse026
♀ Member
Member # 25868
Default  Posted: 5:42 PM, November 21st (Saturday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thank you Card....


That makes me sad, but I know that you are right. I just feel so lost.

I will take a look at those books you suggested. I hope that they will help.

Thank you again.


Together: 8.5 years
Married: 5 years
BW: 32
WH: 34
Angel baby: Nov. 09
OC born June '10

filed for D Oct. 15, served Dec 18
D final June 21, 2011


Posts: 1795 | Registered: Oct 2009 | From: Wonderland
hopingwaiting
♀ Member
Member # 23575
Default  Posted: 8:07 PM, November 22nd (Sunday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Did any of you "test the waters" with BS before reconciling? I am picking up some interesting vibes lately; like WS is "kissing up" kind of when he comes to visit our son. Should I do anything or just wait and see? I told him 4 weeks ago that I don't want a divorce but we haven't talked about it since. Thanks for your help!


BW (Me)-34,
our 1st baby born 7/6/09
WH-34
EA turned PA 8/08-present
D-Day#1 (1/1/09) false R,
D-Day #2 (3/17/09)said he couldn't stop contacting her; told him to move out
married 3.5 years; together 5
status-WH filed for D 6/14/10

Posts: 615 | Registered: Apr 2009
Phoenix519
♀ Member
Member # 26186
Default  Posted: 9:21 AM, November 23rd (Monday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I need to understand why my FWS. He tells me that he wants to know what's bothering me and that we need to talk about it. When I do he says it's in the past and we need to move on from it. He says he has nothing more to say on the subject, I know all there is to know...he knows I love him and the devistation it's caused me both physicially and emotionally and my only motivation for discussing it further is to "live in the pat" and not look at "now". Discussing his affair only serves the purpose of hurting him. Yesterday I said that I talk about it because it helps and he said "but it hurts me". I asked this question in another forum, but I really wanted a WS perspective on this. It seems he is still compartmentalizing and I feel like he's slamming the door in my face. He is supportive, loving and wants our marriage to work but will not budge on this and gets so aggitated and irritated that I usually just drop it. I almost think it's okay for me to hurt as much as I need to, he will be there to hug and make me feel better, just not to discuss it anymore. Advice?

Posts: 581 | Registered: Nov 2009
Card
♂ Member
Member # 23667
Default  Posted: 10:02 AM, November 23rd (Monday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Phoenix519,

I was instructed by our MC to ALWAYS answer my BS's questions, no matter what.

That being said, she was instructed by our MC to do her best to stop asking A questions after 3 months.

She slowed way down after the 3 month time frame, yet some questions still come up, even as recently as yesterday.

I agreed to do what ever it would take for as long as it would take to help my wife recover, and that's what I do!

Phoenix, I have no patience for waywards that still try to control their BS by claiming they hurt to much when they talk about their A. Shhesh, you would think they are the victim when they spew such babble. With that being said, (had to get that out) your conversations about that time need to be safe conversations. If you end up angry and punish him when you discuss the A then he will shut down/compartmentalize.
But if you are thanking him for being honest and you are able to process the conversation safely with him, then he should not be objecting to your inquiries.

I would guide your H to "Joseph's Letter" in the Healing Library as a possible resource as to WHY you need to talk about these things.

Your H is always welcome to PM me and I'll try to guide him a bit on this subject.

Best of luck to you.


WH (me)
BS (her)

D-Days April - Oct. 2007 Recovery started Nov. 2007

"Found Myself", I was right there in my shoes all along!
Search for self called off!

Why Repentance Is Necessary? Because Undeserved Mercy Empowers Entitlement/Sin


Posts: 570 | Registered: Apr 2009
Phoenix519
♀ Member
Member # 26186
Default  Posted: 11:17 AM, November 23rd (Monday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

((((Card))))

Thank you for being there for us BS. It appreciated more than you will ever know.

Our MC told him the same thing and he did that for a while. I'm not asking specific questions about the A just mostly trying to sort through how I feel about things now and what I'm trying to resolve. I do tell him that I don't see him as a monster (although that's how he feels about himself) that I think he's human and has made mistakes and that's when the tears well up but he will not cry and has never cried about this. He becomes very antsy and aggitated and says "let's wrap this up". It seems to be a vicious cycle because I then feel bad for ruining a day that he's spent focusing on spending time with me and making me happy, so then I go to great lengths to ...make it all better and get us back on track. I will take your suggestion and show him the letter you mentioned. I also found "understanding your bs" information that I will pass along to him. Hopefully that will help. I do wish he would reach out to you, having been there you could help him so much but he's focused on putting it in the past and moving on so I know he would never ask for advice.
Thank you so much for your time


Posts: 581 | Registered: Nov 2009
Card
♂ Member
Member # 23667
Default  Posted: 2:50 PM, November 23rd (Monday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

He becomes very antsy and aggitated and says "let's wrap this up".

Phoenix, just a quick follow up comment.

Have you told your FWH how much this statement hurts you?

If you haven't, please express this to him. He needs to know how much damage he is doing by saying such hurtful things to you.

Something else that helped my wife and I...... We agreed not to discuss the A when we were out on dates together. (After our first 3 months) We needed this time together to reconnect without the worry of doing damage to the other by discussing the A.


WH (me)
BS (her)

D-Days April - Oct. 2007 Recovery started Nov. 2007

"Found Myself", I was right there in my shoes all along!
Search for self called off!

Why Repentance Is Necessary? Because Undeserved Mercy Empowers Entitlement/Sin


Posts: 570 | Registered: Apr 2009
Card
♂ Member
Member # 23667
Default  Posted: 7:49 AM, November 24th (Tuesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Did any of you "test the waters" with BS before reconciling? I am picking up some interesting vibes lately; like WS is "kissing up" kind of when he comes to visit our son. Should I do anything or just wait and see? I told him 4 weeks ago that I don't want a divorce but we haven't talked about it since. Thanks for your help!

Hopingwaiting,

I would suggest that until you see the real heart change that needs to occur, that you really don't want to risk another false recovery.

How will you know the real deal?? It's similar to birth pains. Braxton Hicks contractions may seem like the real thing when you are pregnant with your first child but once you experienced the real thing you obviously knew the difference. HUGE difference from what my wife tells.

The same was true for our recovery. We had a false recovery that felt like Braxton Hicks contractions for my wife once compared to the real recovery.

A heart felt change is not tears and words. It is contrition followed by actions. It is conviction that leads to true repentance (180 turn) and a willingness to do things that they would have never considered even Pre-A.

My wife put together a list of conditions that I would have to agree to before I could ever have entry back into her life again. She did this after our first false recovery had failed.

She set the bar high.

When I suggested that I might have an interest in recovery (long story) She emailed me her list. I agreed to do everything on the list. She had things on this list that I had said, at different times in our M, that "I would never do". She had thought it through and was wise enough to protect herself from me and another possible false hope recovery. She knew hope was not a plan, so she created a plan to deal with the alien wayward that I had become.

She is a wise woman. If she had not had a plan, like the first time, I'm not sure I would have done everything necessary for long term success.


WH (me)
BS (her)

D-Days April - Oct. 2007 Recovery started Nov. 2007

"Found Myself", I was right there in my shoes all along!
Search for self called off!

Why Repentance Is Necessary? Because Undeserved Mercy Empowers Entitlement/Sin


Posts: 570 | Registered: Apr 2009
hopingwaiting
♀ Member
Member # 23575
Default  Posted: 10:06 AM, November 24th (Tuesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thank you, Card. I don't think I am doing a good job explaining. All I was wondering was if I would be able to tell if WH is preparing to R.

I imagine it takes awhile to end the affair when it has gone on for 8+ months.

I fully intend to give him a list of requirements if he comes to me wanting to R.


BW (Me)-34,
our 1st baby born 7/6/09
WH-34
EA turned PA 8/08-present
D-Day#1 (1/1/09) false R,
D-Day #2 (3/17/09)said he couldn't stop contacting her; told him to move out
married 3.5 years; together 5
status-WH filed for D 6/14/10

Posts: 615 | Registered: Apr 2009
moreroses
♀ Member
Member # 26283
Default  Posted: 12:13 PM, November 24th (Tuesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

question: If selfishness was a trait of those involved in A.s, so how did you kick the selfishness habit? And, or , do you think it is worth eliminating from your persona? Thanks!


BW;Me
DDay;2-14-08 when former ow decided to enlighten me about previous A
marriage rebuilt, felt rebuilt at 2 1/2 yrs out
long marriage with 4 kids

"And the stars that we could reach were just starfish on the beach"-French folksong


Posts: 1399 | Registered: Nov 2009 | From: Northeast
eyes2thehills
♀ Member
Member # 24094
Default  Posted: 1:16 PM, November 24th (Tuesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

What is your opinion on who should be told about the affair? Should the kids know? How about our parents? What did you decide and why? Thanks!

Posts: 174 | Registered: May 2009
Card
♂ Member
Member # 23667
Default  Posted: 8:59 PM, November 24th (Tuesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

What is your opinion on who should be told about the affair? Should the kids know? How about our parents? What did you decide and why? Thanks!

Eyes2thehills,

My wife exposed my A to EVRYONE! She did it in order to fight the A. It felt like punishment at the time, but in the end it was one of the pivotal things she did that helped end the A.

She told all our children the truth. Our youngest was 6 at the time.

She exposed the darkness of my A and brought it out into the light. A's survive because of all the secrets and mine was no different. Once everone knew, the fantasy was over, it had collided with the truth.

She exposed to everyone within a short, few days period of time to minimize my ability to spin my side of the story. She asked others to pray and to help support her in her fight for our marraige and our family.

Copy and paste this into your web brouser. It's a very good article about exposure;
http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2266646#Post2266646

If it doesn't work, PM me and I'll send it to you.


WH (me)
BS (her)

D-Days April - Oct. 2007 Recovery started Nov. 2007

"Found Myself", I was right there in my shoes all along!
Search for self called off!

Why Repentance Is Necessary? Because Undeserved Mercy Empowers Entitlement/Sin


Posts: 570 | Registered: Apr 2009
dayatatime
♀ Member
Member # 17090
Default  Posted: 1:48 PM, November 26th (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

If your AP turned out to be a real bunny boiler like ours has - won't hold NC, gossips to mutual friends and coworkers, throws you under the bus - what's it like for the WS? I know how hard it's for me seeing OW keep fishing, fishing, fishing.... but I have to imagine it's excrutiating for WH, who has been working hard at R for two years.

Just wondering what it's like on the other side of the fence with someone who "adored" you now won't stop stalking you and trying to destroy the M you're busting your butt to try to save.

Thanks in advance

BS 48
WH 51
son 9
Dday 9/24/07

[This message edited by dayatatime at 1:48 PM, November 26th (Thursday)]


BS 52
WH 55
son 13
ddays 9/27/07 and 9/1/10

Posts: 763 | Registered: Nov 2007
cyclewife
♀ Member
Member # 17922
Default  Posted: 1:46 PM, November 27th (Friday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I caught my husband almost two years into recovery looking up the location of a town he went to with the OW during the affair.
He gave a story that he was looking to see if the coffee shop he went to with her had a location in town so that we could go.
I had made it very clear soon into R that I did not want to go anywhere he had taken her.
Not only that, but the location is a really small town in Texas-no chance there would be a second location where we live.
My question(finally!) what is the real reason he was looking this up?
I think he was revisiting the affair.


BS(me)-37,WS-40
3 kids-s-13, d-7, d-5
married 13 years
Affair started Aug 2007
He moved out 9/15/2007-Said he was moving in with his sister, he moved in with the OW.
OW-51,no one special, just a serial whore
R-hope he's not trying to trick me

Posts: 1314 | Registered: Jan 2008 | From: Texas
Card
♂ Member
Member # 23667
Default  Posted: 2:59 PM, November 27th (Friday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My question(finally!) what is the real reason he was looking this up?
I think he was revisiting the affair.

Cyclewife,
Regretfully, neither you nor I can read his mind to see what he was actually doing.

I would trust your instinct on this.

I would suggest that you tell him how hurtful his actions have been. Ask him to protect you by NOT doing such thoughtless things in the future.
You would think he would understand this, but some of us FWS's need to sit in the slow learners section.


WH (me)
BS (her)

D-Days April - Oct. 2007 Recovery started Nov. 2007

"Found Myself", I was right there in my shoes all along!
Search for self called off!

Why Repentance Is Necessary? Because Undeserved Mercy Empowers Entitlement/Sin


Posts: 570 | Registered: Apr 2009
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