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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: BS Questions for WS"s III
hurtsds
♀ Member
Member # 18856
Default  Posted: 9:43 AM, August 5th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

imscared...thanks for replying, maybe I do just need to tell him to do something or go, he thinks that because he chose to come back and because he promised to never do anything like again, that it should be good enough, and we should move forward. I just didn't want him doing excercises and reading just to appease me. I want him to WANT to fix it, no matter what it takes, and I don't know how to make him understand.


DDay 09/05/07

Posts: 140 | Registered: Mar 2008 | From: Florida
blueskycentral
♂ Member
Member # 22240
Default  Posted: 10:54 AM, August 5th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Need help from WS's on sex w/OM.

I am almost 2 years out. I have really come a long way. My WW claims that sex w/OM (13 times over 3 months) was not good, and that his penis was very small. I do realize that she may be exaggerating to spare my ego. Were you honest with BS on this matter? If the sex was poor, why not continue an emotional affair. Having bad sex every week, almost every time they saw each other does not make sense to me.


Posts: 548 | Registered: Dec 2008 | From: Central NJ
imscared_k
♀ Member
Member # 14061
Default  Posted: 11:59 AM, August 5th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

hurts-
I think your WS is sabotaging the relationship by believing or doing 2 things. 1-That you should be over it, 2-He can get angry or threaten to leave and you'll back down. It gives me no pleasure in saying that I did those exact same things in the very beginning. If you haven't checked out the healing library read tips for the 180. You have to be steady as rock for yourself and enforce your boundaries and don't accept crumbs. My BH called me on my crap and eventually I woke up and got out of the fog. He can wake up and things can get better, but you have to be prepared in case he doesn't.

Bluesky-
If affairs were only based on sex then your W might have just went on to an EA or ended it. Has she stated how she validated the affair, or what lead her to throw away acceptable boundaries? Sometimes the AP is much less of a person than our BS's. Mine was younger still supported by his parents, short, small and I could easily outweigh him. But it wasn't about looks or even that "magical" connection. It was about ego stroking and other external validation. Your W may have confrontation issues and didn't want to end. Or she just wanted an ego stroke emotionally and in order to keep that going felt that she had to give herself physically in order to keep him.


Posts: 1059 | Registered: Mar 2007
hurtsds
♀ Member
Member # 18856
Default  Posted: 2:11 PM, August 5th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

You know what, that kinda makes sense now, I was reading through the 180 thing, and I'm like, wait a minute, this goes against EVERYTHING I've read, and it does. But then I remembered back to when we were separated, and I bought this E-book about how to get your man back or something like that. It basically said, don't be pathetic, move on, show him you're over it, blah blah blah...and it worked, once I said enough and drew up and signed divorce papers, within a week he was back home. I've told him that any lies at work, and our marriage is through, I've told him I don't need him to survive, but I don't think he believes me. I'll let actions speak louder than words.


DDay 09/05/07

Posts: 140 | Registered: Mar 2008 | From: Florida
MissesJai
♀ Member
Member # 24849
Default  Posted: 2:25 PM, August 5th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Were you honest with BS on this matter? If the sex was poor, why not continue an emotional affair. Having bad sex every week, almost every time they saw each other does not make sense to me.

yes, i was honest with my BH about the sex. the sex with xOM wasn't that great - it was just average. vanilla. nothing more....

why keep it going? because A's aren't just about the sex - they're about the ego stroke, the validation, the ability for the xOM to feed the narcissism and sex may very well be the "payment" that your WW gave to xOM to receive such things - i know that's what i did....


FWW - 40
Nobody can make you feel inferior without your consent...

Posts: 5525 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: So Cal.....
mepe27
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Member # 18158
Default  Posted: 7:43 AM, August 7th (Friday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

This question came up in another thread and I thought it might be good to ask here!

I haven't really gotten the answer to this question so I kind of made one up just wanted to see if this could be a possible answer.

My H said a lot of hurtful things about me to one of his ow he also said hurtful things to me on d-day. Specifically, he told one ow that I wasn't very smart and thats why he talked to her about philosophical issues and not me, he told her he felt like he settled when he married me. On d-day he said that I was about 80% of what he wanted in a mate, and that was pretty good! He acted like that was a compliment but it sure didn't feel like one. He said that I didn't push him to succeed. I know some others have heard 'I never loved you' and 'ow is my soulmate' and stuff like that. My theory is that at the time the WS believes the things he/she is saying but really the WS is trying to justify the affair. If the BS is horrible or they aren't in love anymore it's easier to feel ok with the affair. So if a WS gives up the AP and says they want to work on the marriage, could this explain why they said hurtful things but apparently doesn't feel that way anymore? Maybe the WS still feels that way but the good out weighs the bad?

As a remorseful WS, why do you think you said mean things to your BS during the A or right after D-day?


Me BW-39
H WH-41
Married for 10 years
Two boys 6yrs, 3yrs
D-Day 12/1/07
Got whole painful truth 2/2/08
5/15/2008 EA with co-worker, I left
6/1/08 - We are committing to R
"One falsehood destroys a thousand truths"

Posts: 2303 | Registered: Feb 2008 | From: Georgia
lostboy36
♂ Member
Member # 21588
Default  Posted: 12:39 PM, August 7th (Friday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I started to post a question the other day...typed out quite a bit then just deleted it.

If you take the time to view some of my posts you'll see I'm more than a bit of a mess. Long story short. Right now I'm still M for one simple reason, my kids.

I had hoped that though my marriage would never be the same some semblance of a relationship could be recovered. It hasn't and probably won't.

Here I go again, rambling on with out a question.

The one question I have, Why? I know can't be answered or at least can't be answered to any level that would satisfy me.

As a WS how did you go about showing your BS that you cared, loved him/her, etc?

My FWW is so passive it's infuriating and frankly I'm done being the proactive one in this relationship. How do I gently, because I'm not going to be cruel just because I can, let my FWW know that things aren't better and if she continues to maintain the status quo they won't get better.

And as an FYI my FWW knows I'm here only for the kids. I have maintained since dday I would give it a year to see if there was anything worth saving.


BS - me
FWS - her
Two amazing kids
Trying to R
Trying to cope with it all

Posts: 149 | Registered: Nov 2008
UnexpectedSong
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Member # 21761
Default  Posted: 10:05 AM, August 8th (Saturday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

lostboy36 -

Why?

Selfishness.

As a WS how did you go about showing your BS that you cared, loved him/her, etc?

I don't know what this question means. Is there something special that a WS is supposed to do to show love?

A normal person shows love for someone else by... spending time with, doing stuff for, talking to, all the "usual" things people do to show love.

Are there specific things that you want? If so, tell her. She is not a mind reader, and neither are you.


WW(SA)
"Feedback is the breakfast of champions." - Boris Becker

Posts: 6046 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: California
UnexpectedSong
♀ Member
Member # 21761
Default  Posted: 10:11 AM, August 8th (Saturday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

mepe27 -

As a remorseful WS, why do you think you said mean things to your BS during the A or right after D-day?

I need to ask my husband what I said to him in the immediate aftermath. I don't think I said "mean things", but I don't remember a lot - it's all a haze.

What I do remember, though, are things that I said that I thought were true, but now, looking back, I don't really understand why I thought that.

For example, I said that the xOM was like a young version of my H - which now I gag at thinking about. There are reasons that I gave for having the affair, but after therapy and introspection, I know they were inaccurate.

So, there is definitely some revisionist thinking going on for me - mostly due to passing time and seeing more clearly. I don't know if that is what happened with your husband.

[This message edited by UnexpectedSong at 11:00 AM, August 8th (Saturday)]


WW(SA)
"Feedback is the breakfast of champions." - Boris Becker

Posts: 6046 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: California
littleindian
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Member # 23256
Default  Posted: 10:33 AM, August 8th (Saturday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I fessed up to my Bf over an email, and then he texted me while I was in class, after work, to tell me he was leaving. I left class, came home, and he was gone. I was a mess. Later that night, he started yelling at me over text message and asking me questions. I was being mean to him at this point because ludicrously, I felt abandoned and I was worrying about the rent/etc. I was being selfish, which is what all of it really boils down to, as Unexpected said. I kept telling him that he was never going to amount to anything and that he'll always look for someone to mooch off of, etc,etc, and this isn't true.

I was hurting, albeit not a fraction of how he was, and I was lashing out. Ugh, bad times, thinking of it makes my stomach hurt. Knowing I said those things to him shames me, and I apologize to him all the time. He says 'be quiet, I forgive you', and I cry. lol.


Posts: 307 | Registered: Mar 2009
blueskycentral
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Member # 22240
Default  Posted: 11:07 AM, August 9th (Sunday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My WW claims that she was not attracted to OM (she was 39, he was 53).
Sex was not good, penis was small, but that she wanted attention.
Couldn't she get attention w/o sex?
Don't some just have EA's in this case?

I could not imagine having sex 13 times with a woman that was unattractive, bad at sex, just for attention.

Can anyone shed light?

[This message edited by blueskycentral at 11:08 AM, August 9th (Sunday)]


Posts: 548 | Registered: Dec 2008 | From: Central NJ
ilovemyhusband
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Member # 24605
Default  Posted: 11:42 AM, August 9th (Sunday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

bck
but that she wanted attention.
Couldn't she get attention w/o sex?

i don't think it has to do with the sex. JMO, i think that it all comes down to attention, the feeling of being wanted.; whether the sex is bad or not.

Don't some just have EA's in this case?

EA's tend to lead to PAs


me=FWS
him=BS

Posts: 117 | Registered: Jun 2009 | From: ottawa, canada
UnexpectedSong
♀ Member
Member # 21761
Default  Posted: 1:15 PM, August 9th (Sunday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

blueskycentral -

Don't some just have EA's in this case?

My view... affairs are always about sex. An "EA" is just an affair that hadn't gotten physical yet. If both parties think they can get away with it and the logistics work out, it would be physical.


WW(SA)
"Feedback is the breakfast of champions." - Boris Becker

Posts: 6046 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: California
imtrying
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Member # 22031
Default  Posted: 5:38 PM, August 9th (Sunday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

MissesJai, thanks for your long, detailed, very honest answer!

Yes, my X knows that I know he is lying - he is being very squirrelly and sticking to his story that he has not done anything wrong and there are no lies or secrets.

Despite the fact that I know for sure there are, for several, well, many reasons.

I tried once more last night. I've already taken back my offer of him being able to stay in another room in the house until he has a job and a place to go- becuase he lied.

And then I withdrew my friendship - until I needed his help badly - but I paid him for his help and it was not like friends hanging out, but rather tense and difficult. And he is back on the closed door policy as of today because I don't feel that things are truly resolved or he is hiding or SOMETHING.

So, I will have to stick to that. Problem is I have very few people in my life, and am in a VERY VERY scary and precarious position, so I really do need help. But I will have to find it elsewhere. (don't have the money to pay someone - I pay him cheaply because he owes me and is desperate).

Mostly, I have no proof- just his own contradictions, and the common sense that this or that story doesn't make sense. So, I give up. But it makes me sick to my stomach, so I have to end our friendship for now.

Beach- thanks for your answer. I don't know who he is in touch with. He won't tell me a thing. And doesn't have to because we are not going to continue together in a relationship, although the feelings take quite awhile to process.

I did actually end things with him about three weeks ago. Even though we are not married and have no children together, there was still, at least on my part, a great deal of love and a huge amount of effort put into this relationship.

I am much more crushed about ending it than I was when my XWH and I divorced years ago. Even though XWH and I had a child, a marriage, and a house - there was not the emotional bond and dependency.

My relationship recent X on the other hand was a true deep intense love, on many levels - including going through some very intense crisises together, making music together, making art together, and being each other's sole support system, just about, for six cold, broke and tough months and a medical emergency that we were told might kill me.

So, sadly, no marriage license doesn;t mean it's easy to up and walk away. You still have the feelings, the despair, the loneliness, the disbelief, etc.

Only, now I get stuck with ALL the debt we racked up together because it was all in my name. And he gets NONE of the house so he has nothing to show for the sweat equity he put in, etc...


Posts: 721 | Registered: Dec 2008 | From: Pacific NW USA
Listeningclosely
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Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 11:44 AM, August 10th (Monday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

lostboy -

Why?

Based on not only my own experience but what I've seen since, it boils down to one word:

Accountability.

If a WS is given waffle room, they will most likely take it. When confronted with a very direct and very specific choice (her or me? MC or D? Commitment to R or leave?), the reality of the impact hits full force and must be dealt with.

As a WS how did you go about showing your BS that you cared, loved him/her, etc?

Early on, not well at all. The best I could do in the early going was honor a commitment to going to IC to figure out why I was so screwed up and made so many horrible choices. As time went on and I learned lessons I should have understood a long time before, my ways of showing love changed.

For example, I was very socially immature. One of the things it took me months to learn was that the amount of love received increased with the amount of love given. I also learned that people receive love in different ways (The Five Love Languages made a huge impact for me in this way). I learned that my BW received Acts of Service as a huge display of love. So I started kicking in more at home. Doing laundry. Cooking meals. And she felt more love from me. It wasn't about sending her flowers every week (although I do try to show more affection through gifts from time to time).

But the biggest area was rebalancing between work and family. I've worked hard to get more time at home and less after hours with the laptop. The work will still be there. My family almost wasn't.


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
mepe27
♀ Member
Member # 18158
Default  Posted: 11:41 AM, August 11th (Tuesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Blueskycentral - as a woman I think often times it is not about sex at all, as Ilovemyhusband said, it is about the attention, the feeling you get from the other person. I think with the EA aspect you are feeling so great about yourself, so wanted, so desired and you kind of have to follow through or that validation will end. I think for many WS the goal isn't to have sex it's to keep that feeling going and having sex is a way to keep that feeling going.

Maybe I'm weird, b/c the ladies on TV seem to be all about a big penis's and six packs but thats never been the key to great sex for me? So my advice to you is to not obsess over why she would have bad sex but why she was so desperate for attention and the need to be desired. If you get to the bottom of that you'll be closer to the truth.

I'm not a WS I hope it's ok that I responded, btw. I just felt like I could relate to this one as a woman in general.


Me BW-39
H WH-41
Married for 10 years
Two boys 6yrs, 3yrs
D-Day 12/1/07
Got whole painful truth 2/2/08
5/15/2008 EA with co-worker, I left
6/1/08 - We are committing to R
"One falsehood destroys a thousand truths"

Posts: 2303 | Registered: Feb 2008 | From: Georgia
1stwife
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Member # 23926
Default  Posted: 9:21 AM, August 12th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

First and foremost, thanks to all the WS who have so generously and honestly shared their thoughts and to all the BS who have had the courage to ask (and have now given me the courage) to ask...

The recurring theme of A's seems to be getting attention and the desire for having the ego stroked. My question is why isn't attention and ego stroking from the BS enough? I have made a conscious effort throughout my marriage to build my WH up and he has certainly had my attention. What is it about the OW/AP that makes this different? What attention does the WS get from AP that they don't get from BS? Why are compliments from BS brushed off and then sought from AP?

Thanks in advance for your reply.


I finally faced the fact that we're incompatible. I'm a Virgo and he's an asshole.

Free at last, free at last, thank God Almighty, I'm free at last!


Posts: 190 | Registered: May 2009
1DLW
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Member # 21971
Default  Posted: 9:46 AM, August 12th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

1stwife
I think it's because in our messed up heads we feel our spouse "HAS" to say those things. We tend to doubt that they mean it. We think that someone new really means it and thinks we are great.
Which of course is completely wrong.
The OP will say anything to get what they want. Our spouse sees us at our worst and still finds us attractive and loves us.
It really does stink that it takes some of us going through hell to figure that out.


WS 42

Posts: 483 | Registered: Dec 2008
EmptyCup
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Member # 22909
Default  Posted: 10:05 AM, August 12th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

1stwife, I agree with 1DLW. Since we see only the good side of the OP (and vice versa), they seem really great. If someone so wonderful and exciting (gag) thinks we're so wonderful and exciting, we must really be special! Being able to attract someone new is a big ego boost in the warped wayward mind.

Also, in my case, since my relationship with my H wasn't very good, I was way beyond taking him for granted. I had very little respect for him and his opinion didn't mean much to me at that point.

The OP will say anything to get what they want. Our spouse sees us at our worst and still finds us attractive and loves us.
It really does stink that it takes some of us going through hell to figure that out.

This is so true!

[This message edited by EmptyCup at 10:06 AM, August 12th (Wednesday)]


FWW, reconciled with my best friend <3

Nothing much but love to give you, even less have I to hide - Tim O'Brien


Posts: 1140 | Registered: Feb 2009
BreathingAgain
♀ New Member
Member # 25031
Default  Posted: 10:21 AM, August 12th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

First time poster. Long time lurker…
First I would like to say how much I have learned from this forum and how much it has helped me. I thank you all for your willingness to help those in need.
I’m two years into dealing with my husband’s 2nd affair. We are still in MC and he is in IC. I no longer worry (much) about the MOW. What I worry about now is making sure this never happens to us again.
We had a two month false R after DDay, then two very painful broken NC incidents early on. I wish I had found this site earlier so I would have know about the addictive nature of affairs and that broken NC did not mean that the marriage could not (or even should not) be saved. I stuck it out and I’m glad now that I did but at the time I was heartbroken and felt that the broken NC meant that EVERYTHING he had said was untrue including the desire to save our marriage.
After the first broken NC he said that he realized that she didn’t have his best interests at heart, that he now agreed with me that he had been “played” by her. That he would never again risk his marriage to contact her. That he had chosen me.
Then her husband called. He had found letters my husband had sent to his wife 3 months into our R. My husband was congratulating her on her new job. But he addressed her as “my love” and told her to remember how beautiful she was on the inside.
Now I know that it’s easy for the BS to blame and even demonize the OW, but in my situation this MOW is really a piece of work. After DDay, I learned that in the year leading up to her affair with my husband she had slept with at least 5 other men that I know of. One of these was her husband’s best friend and her boss, one was the husband of her only female friend (other than myself). She was also “swinging” with other couples and the boss/best friend. She told my husband about these incidents, but of course none of them were her fault. Her boss had FORCED her to do those things. Her plan was to leave the only child she will ever have in order to make a life with my husband. She spent tens of thousands of dollars on plastic surgery while leaving her child without health insurance. I could go on and on but the bottom line here is that no rational person could look at the way she was living her life and think there was anything “beautiful” on the inside.
Her husband found the letters months after they were written. After his call to us my H sent a firm NC letter to her and letter of apology to her husband. As far as I know NC has not been broken since.
He took full responsibility from the beginning. Never blamed me. Never blamed her. It was all his fault. He had gone after her, she had initially resisted out of her GREAT RESPECT for me. He didn’t see that she had perfected the female art of running away until she “allowed herself” to be caught.
A real friend, and a person who is “beautiful on the inside”, would have immediately shut down any advances made by saying NO in a firm and final manner. I know I have been in that situation myself many times. Instead she flirted with my husband, called him many times a day for “business” advice, and ultimately made me (by resisting out of RESPECT for me) the only obstacle between my H and his obsessions.
Now to the question… I don’t want to further damage my H’s self esteem, but I believe that the only way to ensure that this doesn’t happen again is for him to understand the reality of what she is and how he was played. How do I talk to him about this? How do I know that he has really “seen the light” about her and not just telling me what he thinks I want to hear? How did you “rewire your brain” after you came out of the fog?

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