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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: BS Questions for WS"s III
hopingwaiting
♀ Member
Member # 23575
Default  Posted: 11:33 PM, December 4th (Friday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

7 weeks ago, WH said he was still planning on filing for D; just hasn't completed the paperwork. I told him I didn't want it.

My first Q: Am I right to assume he hasn't done it yet because he still isn't sure that he wants it?

I have been avoiding all R talk, working on myself, getting a life. I have not been too mysterious.

I decided it's time to get mysterious. If WH wants to think I'm on a date, fine.

My second Q: Is this a good idea?? I don't want him to make it easier for him to D me...like "Oh good, she is dating. Less guilt for me!"


BW (Me)-34,
our 1st baby born 7/6/09
WH-34
EA turned PA 8/08-present
D-Day#1 (1/1/09) false R,
D-Day #2 (3/17/09)said he couldn't stop contacting her; told him to move out
married 3.5 years; together 5
status-WH filed for D 6/14/10

Posts: 615 | Registered: Apr 2009
moreroses
♀ Member
Member # 26283
Default  Posted: 1:51 AM, December 5th (Saturday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Also, I would like to know why does a WS have little interest in major suffering of the BS due to harassment by a former OP? Like, for us the OP caused great harassment trouble and whenver I look back on it and say how atrocious it all was he just dismisses it. It makes me wonder if he is on a different planet.If anyone did such things and he heard about them occurring elsewhere he would comment on their terrible nature. But as it happened to us, was ours to deal with, he just turns off or shuts down. I wish he would acknowledge the evil nature of it all. I wonder if by not acknowledging now how bad it was he is trivializing it.


BW;Me
DDay;2-14-08 when former ow decided to enlighten me about previous A
marriage rebuilt, felt rebuilt at 2 1/2 yrs out
long marriage with 4 kids

"And the stars that we could reach were just starfish on the beach"-French folksong


Posts: 1399 | Registered: Nov 2009 | From: Northeast
Grinder
♀ Member
Member # 21322
Default  Posted: 10:01 AM, December 5th (Saturday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

has anyone confronted the OW?
I believe you want BS input on this question. Why don't you ask this in "General"?

"Confronting the OP" does not apply to Waywards.

I guess I should rephrase my question because what I really want to know is "What do you tell OP that keeps them hanging around when your behavior says you will never commit to them?"


"Midway upon the journey of life, I found myself within a forest dark For the straightforward path had been lost" Dante

Posts: 105 | Registered: Oct 2008 | From: Valley of the Sun
moreroses
♀ Member
Member # 26283
Default  Posted: 2:31 PM, December 5th (Saturday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Oh no, my question does not involve confronting the OP , it is why does my husband avoid interest or comment discussing the harassment we formerly suffered by the OP?No, husband/we have no interest in confronting anyone.That's done. It just seems he has an aversion to the topic yet, if it were anyone else, he would say something about it like, 'that is certainly dispecable behavior', just wondering.

[This message edited by moreroses at 2:33 PM, December 5th (Saturday)]


BW;Me
DDay;2-14-08 when former ow decided to enlighten me about previous A
marriage rebuilt, felt rebuilt at 2 1/2 yrs out
long marriage with 4 kids

"And the stars that we could reach were just starfish on the beach"-French folksong


Posts: 1399 | Registered: Nov 2009 | From: Northeast
UnexpectedSong
♀ Member
Member # 21761
Default  Posted: 12:01 PM, December 6th (Sunday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

moreroses - This thread is a continual, moving thing, so questions and answers will be interspersed. Grinder was not referring to your message right after your post.

Grinder -

What do you tell OP that keeps them hanging around when your behavior says you will never commit to them?

This is an unpopular opinion... but, the fact is that an affair is a relationship. There are usually feelings on the side of both parties. As in any relationship, the breakup may not be "equal" - one party may try to hang on longer than the other party after the breakup.

Have you never had a relationship when you were younger when someone broke up with you, but you hoped that he would come to realize that he really liked you, even though by all appearances, he was moving on?

Sometimes, you don't have to say anything to someone else, but hope still remains. It's not unexpected.


WW(SA)
"Feedback is the breakfast of champions." - Boris Becker

Posts: 6046 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: California
bestrongforyou
♀ Member
Member # 25818
Default  Posted: 12:24 PM, December 6th (Sunday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I have a question in regards to anger - is it normal for WS's to lash out on the BS's for mistakes they made in the marriage - and I don't mean only once but continously for months, even after separaation. Listening to him you could think I am the biggest biatch ever born.


Me(39)BS Him(35)

Posts: 659 | Registered: Oct 2009
moreroses
♀ Member
Member # 26283
Default  Posted: 1:00 PM, December 6th (Sunday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Yes, I think I'm catching on here. I will post tomorrow as I think more folks answer when they are in work. Thank you.


BW;Me
DDay;2-14-08 when former ow decided to enlighten me about previous A
marriage rebuilt, felt rebuilt at 2 1/2 yrs out
long marriage with 4 kids

"And the stars that we could reach were just starfish on the beach"-French folksong


Posts: 1399 | Registered: Nov 2009 | From: Northeast
UnexpectedSong
♀ Member
Member # 21761
Default  Posted: 3:48 PM, December 6th (Sunday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

bestrongforyou -

is it normal for WS's to lash out on the BS's for mistakes they made in the marriage

Did he do this before the affair? In other words, is this something he's always done? Or only in the aftermath of the affair?

If it's something he's always done, well, he's just being consistent.

If it's a new thing... there are many reasons. He could be feeling guilty and covering that up with anger. Or, he could be feeling more free to express his anger.

I did this for a bit. Now that we are working on communication and all that jazz, I feel more free to call my husband on what I think he's doing wrong (even if I'm the one who is wrong), whereas before, I would never bring anything up.

[This message edited by UnexpectedSong at 3:50 PM, December 6th (Sunday)]


WW(SA)
"Feedback is the breakfast of champions." - Boris Becker

Posts: 6046 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: California
bestrongforyou
♀ Member
Member # 25818
Default  Posted: 4:03 PM, December 6th (Sunday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

He is angry with me consistantly for 8 months now - we are separated for 4 - since the day he told me how unhappy he was with me - affair still has to be proofen - he had one bad spell last year september where he unleashed all his anger for 3 days but that passed - I am wondering now if these spells consistent with him having affairs.

[This message edited by bestrongforyou at 4:04 PM, December 6th (Sunday)]


Me(39)BS Him(35)

Posts: 659 | Registered: Oct 2009
MelisssaZZZ
♀ Member
Member # 25953
Default  Posted: 5:29 AM, December 7th (Monday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

hey, thanks guys :)

we have spoken about the divorce. even our assets are split now. (in march i said that I am giving him a 2nd chance but if there is a repeated contact with OW I will keep 80% of joined assets (to soften my pain..) - he agreed. there was contact. the assets are now with me.... well moved out of our marital property). we spoke about child visiting times. we have pretty much agreed it all.

we have also agreed to have DIY D which simply means filling in forms and getting through divorce. should be relatively easy and cheap.

i think he 'knows' he and OW are not ment to be. really never were. When i throw him out in Aug i suggested him to introduce her to any of his friends - he got terrified of the idea (yes, she really is so horrible, even he understands that... somewhat)... also he got extremely upset when i used to say that it seems like they are a match. he says he is not like her (interesting, right he he...).

i think the problem I am really facing that he might be a person who does not see further then passion stage of love... he usually gets bored after first 3y in relationship.. so, i guess i need to see if he is even capable of anything more.. i think.

his main complaints are that i am cold in relationship and not sharing feelings easily (in this i think he has a point). whereas when I am sharing how I am feeling - he is very abrupt e.g. - 'if you feel so sad about fathers death you should speak to the professional'.

How do i share my feelings in a way which does not make him defensive / agressive etc?

on a different note - he said i have problem with expressing the anger - I surely did for a time just after DD. So my therapist suggested a book - dance of anger. i really did not find anything new there apart from reaction after dd this is what i did all along. but he found it very eye opening. I presume he had a problem with keeping anger inside and building up resentment..

anyways, i think he is starting to see clearer and clearer by the day.. i just hope he see clearly enough before i lose patience...


Me BS - 37
WH 39
1 child - 4yrs
married 5 yrs, together 7
DD1 midmarch 09
DD2 early june 09
some more DD's of course - cannot bother to list
LTA (2 yrs) fully?? finished mid Aug 09
Status: Divorced Oct 2011

Posts: 1199 | Registered: Oct 2009 | From: London, UK
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 7:14 AM, December 7th (Monday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

moreroses -

why does a WS have little interest in major suffering of the BS due to harassment by a former OP?

There are a couple of reasons this can happen. First, remember that an A is the epitome of selfish behavior. During that time the last person I was focused on was my BW.

Once I emerged fully from my fog I saw the importance of placing my BW front and center and being aware of what she needs. That was a change that came over time.

Considering your D-Day, it would be less likely that this would be the reason for the lack of your WH coming to your defense if you are truly in R. The other reason I can think of would be the esteem hit we take as WS's each time our OP does something harmful. We have to remind ourselves that we are the ones who brought that person into our lives. As a result, we feel responsible for their actions. To admit that the actions of the OP are harmful is to admit that we brought harm on the people we love and care about. In my case being a classic conflict avoider, I would tend to bury my head in the sand and pretend that nothing bad was going on. To do otherwise would mean facing the harm we brought on others.


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 7:28 AM, December 7th (Monday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

grinder -

"What do you tell OP that keeps them hanging around when your behavior says you will never commit to them?"

In my case, xMOW was on a cheaters site. So all parties sort of knew what they were in for, but were in such denial about reality that it didn't matter.

The truth is people there didn't need to say much to keep the OP around, because everyone there was so focused on getting their fix of the things that were missing within them that all that mattered was that moment in time.


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 7:33 AM, December 7th (Monday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

bestrong -

is it normal for WS's to lash out on the BS's for mistakes they made in the marriage - and I don't mean only once but continously for months, even after separaation.

While remaining foggy? Yes, it's pretty normal. Remember that to deflect how bad a WS's actions are there is a need to create excuses as to why the A was/is necessary. By making the BS out to be the "bad guy/gal", they deceive themselves into thinking they had every reason to look elsewhere for the relationship they deserved.

It ends up being the justification for totally selfish behavior. The thought that "I've sacrificed so much and it's not appreciated, so it's about time I took care of myself and my own needs".


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
kluelesskat
♀ Member
Member # 23552
Default  Posted: 7:35 AM, December 7th (Monday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My question is for WS who were involved with someone who was also having affairs with other people, I mean other than that persons spouse.

My FWS was having an affair with a married woman who was also having affairs with 2 other married men, not to mention any other randoms she forgot to mention.

My question is did this bother you during the affair? If so, why? If it did not bother you, why not?

My FWS showed no concern over this fact, which shows me how low his self esteem actually was at the time. When we first starting "seeing" each other, we were not exclusive and he specifically asked me not to "fool around" with other guys when I was with him. It makes me question why he was ok with "sharing" his affair partner with someone other than her husband, when he obviously would not approve of sharing me.

And if this was the case, why did you think you were any more special than the other affair partners?

[This message edited by kluelesskat at 7:37 AM, December 7th (Monday)]


Me - BS
Him - WS
MOW - Ole fatty w 2 others on the side besides mine and her husband

Posts: 215 | Registered: Apr 2009 | From: Canada Eh
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 7:45 AM, December 7th (Monday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

MelisssaZZZ -

How do i share my feelings in a way which does not make him defensive / agressive etc?

You can't control how he reacts to what you share. He is fully responsible for his responses. All you can do is be open and honest about what you are feeling and going through. The rest is up to him.

I did appreciate - probably far more than she knows - how calm and fair my BW was through the early recovery stages. For example, we agreed to read "After the Affair" together and discuss each chapter after we both completed them. Never once did she complain that my reading pace was too slow. As we talked about content, she never argued my feelings on a given issue. She calmly and clearly stated how she felt about specific issues, but never denied my feelings in the process.

To me, that's the key. Finding a way to talk about the core issues without it escalating into shouting matches or people digging in their heels.


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 7:56 AM, December 7th (Monday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

kluelesskat -

My question is did this bother you during the affair? If so, why? If it did not bother you, why not?

Yes, it bothered me. But remember that all A's are built on deceit on many levels. So xMOW would refer to me as her "#1" or some other term that made me feel like I had some sort of priority. The reality is that the whole thing is a farce. It's made up of people saying whatever they need to say in order to get what they selfishly want. And when that is taken away, the ugly truth starts to emerge.

Why did you think you were any more special than the other affair partners?

Honestly, I didn't think I was any more special. If anything, I was less than them. In that phase, it was like being back in high school and playing the games high school guys would to keep the attention of the girl they wanted. If you saw competition, you would try to change yourself to match the person they were enamored with. In the end, you become someone totally foreign - you are no longer yourself but a complete fake.

I am completely embarrassed that I allowed myself to become the person I did. I still don't consider myself someone more special than someone else. But I am no longer willing to sacrifice who I am to try to compete for something that made no sense in the first place.


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
hopingwaiting
♀ Member
Member # 23575
Default  Posted: 1:24 PM, December 7th (Monday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

sorry, don't mean to sound like an ungrateful brat, but I have asked q's here and get ignored a lot.(see my q posted 12/4) It is frustrating since we aren't allowed to post in Wayward Side where lots of potentially helpful people can answer.

Thank you to those who volunteer their time to help.


BW (Me)-34,
our 1st baby born 7/6/09
WH-34
EA turned PA 8/08-present
D-Day#1 (1/1/09) false R,
D-Day #2 (3/17/09)said he couldn't stop contacting her; told him to move out
married 3.5 years; together 5
status-WH filed for D 6/14/10

Posts: 615 | Registered: Apr 2009
Deeply Scared
♀ Administrator
Member # 2
Default  Posted: 1:31 PM, December 7th (Monday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

hopingwaiting...

The WS's in here don't hold the answer to every question asked, in many cases...you are the only one that can properly answer your question.


"Don't give up, the beginning is always the hardest." My Mom:)

My tolerance for stupid shit is getting less and less.


Posts: 192071 | Registered: May 2002
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 1:44 PM, December 7th (Monday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Sorry hopingwaiting. I know for me I can't be on here every day. Some days there's just a few questions, others there are a lot. Honestly in this case, I missed yours at the top of the page.

As far as the questions go:

Am I right to assume he hasn't done it yet because he still isn't sure that he wants it?

This is a possibility. It's also possible that the simple thought of the impact of D scares him. If he's a conflict avoider, then he'd be procrastinating on moving forward to avoid the conflict.

Is this a good idea?? I don't want him to make it easier for him to D me...like "Oh good, she is dating. Less guilt for me!"

Part of me understands this. But I have never been a big fan of one person (on either side) playing games with their spouse. If there are issues, put them out there. If limbo isn't working, then lay down the law and tell him you can't live with an M with no work toward R. That either R or D are possibilities but no in between. I'd see that as more productive than playing games to see what the reaction is of someone you cannot control.


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
UnexpectedSong
♀ Member
Member # 21761
Default  Posted: 1:45 PM, December 7th (Monday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

hopingwaiting -

My first Q: Am I right to assume he hasn't done it yet because he still isn't sure that he wants it?

What is your husband like normally? Does he always procrastinate? If he always does, then not filing yet doesn't mean anything. If he is always on the ball and is never late about anything, then maybe he has second thoughts.

I decided it's time to get mysterious. If WH wants to think I'm on a date, fine.

My second Q: Is this a good idea?? I don't want him to make it easier for him to D me...like "Oh good, she is dating. Less guilt for me!"

You need to do what will work for you. You cannot control someone into feeling more or less guilt (although you can try by nagging them or whatever).

Again, it all depends on your husband's personality. If he is the jealous type, maybe thinking you are dating will change his behavior. If he's indifferent, he probably won't care what you are doing.

But, you have to do what is good for you. If you pretend to go on a date, but you are sitting in your car stewing and you go home upset, but you can't show him, that doesn't work for you. However, if you go out with your girlfriends, have a good dinner, come back happy, then that's better. Both ways, you're mysterious, he doesn't know what's going on, but with the latter option, you're working on making yourself healthier.


WW(SA)
"Feedback is the breakfast of champions." - Boris Becker

Posts: 6046 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: California
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