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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: BS Questions for WS"s III
nlovemyfamily
♀ Member
Member # 15258
Default  Posted: 7:04 AM, December 17th (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

why did you as WS stay in A for so long? Trying to understand why WS not only have A while in good M,
why did you stay in A for so long? What does your mind say to you every day knowing your choice destroyed relationship,respect and honor of your children,young and adult ones?

Posts: 415 | Registered: Jul 2007 | From: nj
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 9:01 AM, December 17th (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

nlovemyfamily -

why did you as WS stay in A for so long?

Why do alcoholics drink over and over again for months, only to lose their jobs and family? Why does a drug addict pay tons of hard to come by cash to inject themselves with a substance they know will trash their lives if not kill them?

Because what is missing within them is so overpowering that it becomes an obsession. The need for the high pushes aside all reason.

It's selfish, but it's also what the brain is telling you that you must do to get by. I felt so ineffective as a person that any positive attention was enough to gain my focus.


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
nooneeverthought
♀ Member
Member # 20157
Default  Posted: 9:41 AM, December 17th (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Okay we are in what I consider a very successful R and have been for 18 months. I cannot consider anything H tells me at this point TT if they were questions I never asked. So I asked him last night how the conversation of leaving spouses came up. He left us for 4 months to be with the FOW. She left her BH and has divorced.

He said that a few months in she started talking about how good they would be together and if they had the chance to "hook up" she would take such good care of him, etc. etc. He said he mumbled things like umhmmm, that would be nice...Never had the "talk" like I am thinking. Then she told her BH about the A and called H and left him a message that all hell broke loose and she needed to see him. He met her and she played the guilt card of you still have everything, I have nothing. You promised you would tell your wife if my husband ever found out. She asked him to leave us and be with her. He told her he had to think about it. He started looking for reasons to leave. A few weeks later he found out I paid the mortgage two weeks late and that is the reason he used to leave. So he text her to let her know this was the final straw and he was leaving me and she told him he could come stay with her she had plenty of room at her place.

So here is my question: I know from reading the luuuv letters she was the agressor and the letters were full of playing guilt on my H. Can someone have been so altered in their thinking they never really thought leaving would happen then when panic set in he became almost desperate to find a reason to leave so that he didn't have to tell his family the truth?

I know I am trying to makse sense out of something that doesn't make sense but I am so confused right now.


it doesn't matter where you go in life ,it's who you have the beside you

Posts: 8493 | Registered: Jul 2008
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 10:07 AM, December 17th (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

nooneeverthought -

Can someone have been so altered in their thinking they never really thought leaving would happen then when panic set in he became almost desperate to find a reason to leave so that he didn't have to tell his family the truth?

It's not just the subject of leaving your family. It's everything about the A. When you are doing something this wrong, this horrible, this destructive - your mind forces you to come up with your internal justification. You need to convince yourself that you had every right to act the way you did.

So you start looking for reasons to act in such a bad way. You convince yourself that your spouse isn't caring. They didn't kiss you good night the night before. They didn't put their hand on yours when you placed it next to them on the couch.

When ideas start to run thin, you start really grasping at straws. They left the bed unmade. They sent your suit to the cleaners when you were going to just freshen it up. Really crazy stuff.

Even worse, you are trying to keep the OP engaged so you look for things to tell them about how badly your BS is treating you. It feeds the A, as the OP then latches onto it and tells you how awful it is that your BS doesn't appreciate you more.

Warped? Yes. Does it make sense? Not in the least. But it's how we distort our view to allow ourselves to continue our awful actions.


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
nooneeverthought
♀ Member
Member # 20157
Default  Posted: 10:17 AM, December 17th (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks LC. He explained it that way too. I know rationally how it happened. I just need to give my heart time to digest that real conversations took place about his living a new life.


it doesn't matter where you go in life ,it's who you have the beside you

Posts: 8493 | Registered: Jul 2008
ThriveNotSurvive
♀ Member
Member # 22093
Default  Posted: 4:19 PM, December 17th (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I posted this earlier and didn't get any responses. But I know this thread moves quickly. So in the hopes that it was just overlooked I thought I would post it again. Has anyone experienced this?

I am considering giving WH another chance. He is making a lot of changes on his own and seems to be really trying. He cheated our whole marriage. Many many OW's and one LTA that resulted in an OC.

One of the things he is struggling with right now is that there were many times that he had no sexual desire for me. My weight did go up and down but only about 15 pounds, we went through a pregnancy and I did have post partum depression for a short time after. I only say to this point out that nothing drastically changed about me so we both know that it wasn't really about my appearance, even though at the time he blamed it on me becoming frumpy and boring. There were times throughout all of that were he was extremely attracted to me and other times that he had to "really focus and force" himself to get hard.

He is struggling to figure out why. Was is stress, guilt, was it that I was the same old thing while he was sampling so much new? Was it the lack of emotional connection to me? He said that at the time he knew he loved me but wondered how he could be married to someone that he didn't want sexually.

Have any of you experienced this during your A? I know he needs to figure out his reasons for himself, but I thought it might help him to hear that others had the same problem.


Strength, Courage, and Wisdom, it was inside of me all along - India Arie

Some women are Angels, and when someone breaks our wings, we simply continue to fly...on a broomstick if we have to...cuz we're flexible that way.


Posts: 1582 | Registered: Dec 2008 | From: Las Vegas
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 7:56 PM, December 17th (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

ThriveNotSurvive - I did see your post, but I could not relate to it directly. Intimacy was not an issue with my BW before, during or after the A. What was missing in me was more connected to self esteem than sexual desire.

I think you're right - that he needs to sort this out on his end. The reasons you list all sound like logical possibilities.

Sorry I can't offer more. It just doesn't match my story.


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
ThriveNotSurvive
♀ Member
Member # 22093
Default  Posted: 10:59 PM, December 17th (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thank you so much for responding Listening. I figured it wouldn't have been the same for everyone but maybe someone else can relate.

I do want to tell you that many of your other posts here have resonated with me and helped me very much. I appreciate you taking the time to help so many.


Strength, Courage, and Wisdom, it was inside of me all along - India Arie

Some women are Angels, and when someone breaks our wings, we simply continue to fly...on a broomstick if we have to...cuz we're flexible that way.


Posts: 1582 | Registered: Dec 2008 | From: Las Vegas
UnexpectedSong
♀ Member
Member # 21761
Default  Posted: 9:33 AM, December 19th (Saturday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

TNS -

He is struggling to figure out why. Was is stress, guilt, was it that I was the same old thing while he was sampling so much new? Was it the lack of emotional connection to me? He said that at the time he knew he loved me but wondered how he could be married to someone that he didn't want sexually

This did not apply to me. I went through a low-sex drive spell, but it had nothing to do with my husband nor the affair. It had to do with having babies and nursing, which shut off my sex drive for about five years.

After my sex drive came back, it may have contributed to the affair, but I never not wanted my husband.

If I had to guess, your husband was too engaged in "sampling the new".


WW(SA)
"Feedback is the breakfast of champions." - Boris Becker

Posts: 6046 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: California
ThriveNotSurvive
♀ Member
Member # 22093
Default  Posted: 11:29 PM, December 19th (Saturday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thank you for taking the time to answer Unexpected! It is kind of facinating to watch him now. He is starting to see reality now and is realizing just how many lies he convinced himself of to justify his behavior.

I can almost see the lightbulb above his head!


Strength, Courage, and Wisdom, it was inside of me all along - India Arie

Some women are Angels, and when someone breaks our wings, we simply continue to fly...on a broomstick if we have to...cuz we're flexible that way.


Posts: 1582 | Registered: Dec 2008 | From: Las Vegas
Kwills
♀ Member
Member # 13172
Default  Posted: 9:10 AM, December 20th (Sunday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

why did you as WS stay in A for so long? Trying to understand why WS not only have A while in good M,
why did you stay in A for so long? What does your mind say to you every day knowing your choice destroyed relationship,respect and honor of your children,young and adult ones?

Well, we don't have children so this never factored in.

For me, I stayed in the A because looking back I had one foot out the door of my marriage. I couldn't break it off because it was meeting some deep emotional needs for me at the time, and I wasn't ready to give that up totally & try to work on my marriage. I didn't even know if I wanted to be married anymore so I think that kept me stuck in between for a long time. Of course, I didn't want to be married to FOM either--he mentioned it once that if we broke up with our spouses he wanted to marry me and I got this sick panicky feeling in my stomach--like no way buddy! His comment made me realize for the first time in the A that it wasn't about my BS and it wasn't about OM--the A was all about me and what I needed/wanted/had to sort out. That took time.

Now I'm still married today, but there are a lot of days it isn't so good and I'm still not sure if we're going to make it and I'm not sure if I care if we DO make it. I'm still where I was at pre-A in that vein. However, I have come to realize too that cheating is a dead end for everyone involved--it doesn't fix anything and just leads to other painful spirals that dont go anywhere. If we end our marriage it won't be because of cheating, it will be because I can't emotionally or sexually connect the right way and my husband needs/deserves more.

My most recent A was from 2005-2006, and I've been at SI since 2005 (lurked for 2 years before I joined). So we're coming up on 4 years this January out of that mess and I'm still not sure I want to be here. Usually I see this from FBS's, but it is what it is.

FWIW, I have a terrible time making decisions and only make them under duress and when circumstances force a choice. Very recently this played out in my work life--a situation arose that forced me to make a decision that I'd been delaying reapeatedly, and it came down to the wire and I had to act or lose my ass (for lack of a better word). I think my A was an aborted attempt at that for myself.

Sorry to be such a bucket of joy this morning-

Kwills


Posts: 1052 | Registered: Jan 2007
lostandafraid
♀ Member
Member # 21125
Default  Posted: 9:58 AM, December 20th (Sunday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I posted this in GENERAL would like a WS perspective - espcially from the male WS's....

Dinner is over and we're talkinga about all kinds of subjects. Someone brings up Tiger Woods.... I tried to steer the conversation back to something else - it went back Tiger Woods.

Someone says something about all the money Tiger will lose if he divorces, etc - my response was "and who's fault is that - his and his alone because of the selfish choices he made".

One of the other husbands says "now wait a minute, you don't know what was going on at home. Maybe she wasn't making him happy, maybe she wasn't "giving him any", maybe she was being a total bitch to him, or maybe she was even cheating."

I said "none of that is an excuse or a reason for having an A. If you're unhappy, you talk through things. If it falls on deaf ears then you have two choices... live with it or leave. Having an affair is not one of those choices - no matter how you try to justify it."

The guy said he didn't agree, and then...... THEN.... FWH says "I agree with him, we don't know what was going on, maybe he had his reasons."

I looked at FWH and asked him quiety to let it go - he once again, so "sorry, but I agree with that".

I got up and walked away to try to calm myself until everyone left. The employees that were over the house know about H's A and even know who the OW is, so i'm sure they knew what was up.

After everyone left, I went to bed - didn't say a word to FWH.

This morning, he's trying to "lovey" and I'm not responding so he asks what's wrong.

I started off by telling him that I was surprised he could talk this morning since he still had his big, fat,fucking foot still lodged in his mouth.

In essence, he tried to tell me that conversation had nothing to do with us as we were talking about Tiger Woods.

I told him it started out about Tiger Woods and then went to general reasons why people have affairs, and that FWH AGREED with the whole "maybe she wasn't making him happy" shit!

I told him it hurt me so badly and all that shit he spewed about none of it being my fault is bull shit. If he truly believes what he said last night, then he does feel it was my fault and my doing and I deserved what I got.

To me, it also means that he'll more than likely do it again.

This Tiger stuff has opened up a lot of wounds. From the male WS perspective, could he really not have meant it about out situation, but was just talking about the Tiger sitch in general - or is my bull shit dectector correct?


Posts: 2706 | Registered: Oct 2008
nyclady
♀ Member
Member # 26020
Default  Posted: 9:05 PM, December 21st (Monday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I won't go into the whole sorted story, but I wonder if those of you who were in EA, still have feelings for the OW? My husband says he always will and I am having a hard time with that.

And tonight, after a day waiting for him to come home from giving the OW a gift, which he has never given me, I felt hurt, and for the first time in all this mess, anger. I acted foolish, pushing his buttons, asking too many questions, venting, all the things the Healing Library articles say not to do. I am so ashamed now and feel awful, but still a part of me couldn't help do all the wrong things.

The OW is always up, she's bi-polar and a free spirit, not to mention young! I was a misery today, and now feel I am only driving his feelings more toward her.

He was honest, too honest with his responses to my questions of his day, which hurt me more and only made matters worse. I know I should smile, keep my mouth shut, not follow him around, and not get nasty, but today was a first. He still worries about the OW, and that has me nuts. He loves her, not in love, but love. Did or do any of you still have feeling for the OW, but really love your wife even if she has a moment of madness?


Feeling hopeless in New York. Please, before you think of giving comfort to me, read my story on my profile before you do.

Me and WH-56
Married 34 years, childhood sweethearts, friends 43 years.
DD-October 7, 2009
Sadly, but luckily, no children


Posts: 318 | Registered: Oct 2009 | From: United States
UnexpectedSong
♀ Member
Member # 21761
Default  Posted: 9:34 PM, December 21st (Monday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

nyclady -

after a day waiting for him to come home from giving the OW a gift

I am stunned that you didn't kick him out after this. My husband would have kicked me out so fast, I wouldn't know which way was which!

He does this because you let him.

He will keep having feelings for her as long as he maintains contact with her.


WW(SA)
"Feedback is the breakfast of champions." - Boris Becker

Posts: 6046 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: California
nyclady
♀ Member
Member # 26020
Default  Posted: 9:46 PM, December 21st (Monday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Unexpected-Supposedly today was the last contact, or so he claims. The OW lives in the neighborhood so I know they will run into each other at some point and that scares me.

He's made it clear, he is in the clear and out of the fog, but I can still see it in his eyes and in his smile she is on his mind. I just wish a WH can tell me if it was the same for them, the lingering feelings for the OW. I just wonder if it ever ends because my WH says he will always have a special place in his heart for her.

If you know my whole story, I let it all go with no further thoughts of what could have or not have been. It's old news but as a female I wonder if it's different for an older man when it comes to a younger woman who made his heart soar and made a happy man of him.

[This message edited by nyclady at 9:51 PM, December 21st (Monday)]


Feeling hopeless in New York. Please, before you think of giving comfort to me, read my story on my profile before you do.

Me and WH-56
Married 34 years, childhood sweethearts, friends 43 years.
DD-October 7, 2009
Sadly, but luckily, no children


Posts: 318 | Registered: Oct 2009 | From: United States
UnexpectedSong
♀ Member
Member # 21761
Default  Posted: 12:35 AM, December 22nd (Tuesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

nyclady -

He's made it clear, he is in the clear and out of the fog

He's not out of the fog. As far as his emotions are concerned, the "breakup" starts today. It'll take him a few months to get her out of his system (sorry...). Only then can he say anything reasonably accurate about his feelings about her.


WW(SA)
"Feedback is the breakfast of champions." - Boris Becker

Posts: 6046 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: California
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 7:18 AM, December 22nd (Tuesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

lostandafraid -

From the male WS perspective, could he really not have meant it about out situation, but was just talking about the Tiger sitch in general - or is my bull shit dectector correct?

I don't know about your WH, but I know in my case there have been plenty of times when I have said something without thinking about the deeper meaning of what I'm saying. For guys who are like that, I can see making a statement about agreeing not to be aware of the full situation and not thinking about how that by extension comes across that you could be blaming the BS for the A.

I do think you're possibly taking this too far in the other direction. Yes, I think he truly kept the Tiger situation and how he feels about his A separate. But I also think this is a good opportunity to talk through the subject and gain some common ground on the topic.


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 7:41 AM, December 22nd (Tuesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

nyclady -

I wonder if those of you who were in EA, still have feelings for the OW?

Now, I have to say I've reached the point of indifference. But it has taken quite a while of defogging to get to this point.

My husband says he always will and I am having a hard time with that.

This statement is being made from miles deep within the fog. He is still seeing the OW, even giving her gifts? He's still speaking from a place where the fantasy is kept alive.

In our case, my BW made it clear in the immediate aftermath of D-Day. I was either to commit to her and our M or we were getting a D. That forced me to confront what I was doing and to make changes in the right direction. Honestly, you have long passed that same point.

I acted foolish, pushing his buttons, asking too many questions, venting

Why foolish? You feel like you are pushing him away? He's already standing with one foot in the door but the other out. That's his choice and it's all on his shoulders. Your actions have nothing to do with it.

I know everyone has to find their own place when they feel ready to draw the line in the sand, but in your shoes I would force the issue here and now. It's either OW or you, but no way can he continue to have both. At least with his choice made, you can help yourself heal based on his decision.


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
feelsempty
♂ Member
Member # 25913
Default  Posted: 1:30 PM, December 22nd (Tuesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Does the OP Lie?
My Wife's xOM is the one who outed the affair to me. As surreal as it was, I tried to remember everything he said to me that night. A few things, I could tell he was lying about, be cause he got the details wrong, and were probably just things My W complained to him about..
He claimed he was at "X" event that I was not at with my kids or whatever.
After that night, I sent him an e-mail reminding him how he said he would remove some pictures from a website, and his response was to spew more hatred and vile things about my wife. Granted she did some awful things all the same.

I asked my wife if she went to "X" appointment or "Y" engagement with him and she said no. I am inclined to believe her, as she has been very forthcoming, revealing, transparent, etc. and compared to everything else, these are minor.

She thinks it was his way of being disruptive and trying to throw gas on the fire. I just hope it is not more foolish TT.

Has anyone had experience where the OP was just angry and lied or am I fooling myself?


BH Me
lost wife her
her 4 Month PA worth years of pain for us?
DDAY 8/16/09
I want you to forsake everything else in the world for me the way you did for him...

Posts: 76 | Registered: Oct 2009
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 1:40 PM, December 22nd (Tuesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

feelsempty -

Does the OP Lie?

First, keep in mind that unless our A was with a single person, we as WS's are also OP as well.

For me, there were plenty of lies during the A. The lies stopped as the fog lifted.

If the OP in your case felt jilted by your WW and especially if he is still in a fog over their A, then lies and exaggerations are pretty likely.


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
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