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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: BS Questions for WS"s III
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 12:05 PM, January 11th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Cecil2156 -

how long did your withdrawal from the affair last? Did your withdrawal coincide with the end of your fog?

The withdrawal process was not an overnight thing for me. So it's tough to pinpoint the specific day when withdrawal symptoms officially were fully gone. It was definitely by the time the fog had fully cleared, which was five months after D-Day for me.

It did get a little easier each day through my recovery process. but it was definitely a gradual thing.


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 12:11 PM, January 11th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

MelisssaZZZ -

why he would still hate me that much now.

I would think that he still believes the lies he told himself to justify his actions. When you enter an A, you have to convince yourself that things with your BS are so bad you had no other choice or were justified in what you did. It's only after doing real work in IC that that you start to unravel the absurdity of your own lies and start to see the truth.


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
Elbell
♀ Member
Member # 25814
Default  Posted: 12:14 PM, January 11th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Always a little confused in this forum.

FWH and I had another "fight" last night. He is doing everything right, but I just have no trust whatsoever. Typically he is great about reaching out and reassuring me. But last night when I was tripping a little and didn't respond to his hug, he became discouraged and almost defensive. He said he perceived that as rejection. That, of course, set me off into lalaland and it basically wrecked our night.

We finally both agreed that he was tired and needed to go to bed, but as always (this is par for course in our M) I kept pursuing him for closure, for a "happy ending" for the night. He did respond openly, and did initiate a really long hug before it was all over.

My problem is that I tend to get angry when he feels discouraged/tired/rejected, for obvious reasons. I think I've been rejected in a myriad of brutal ways for a very long time, and for him to feel rejected seems downright silly to me. I'm here, I'm agreeing to R, I'm doing a LOT to encourage him (love, affection, affirmation, etc).

So I guess my question is, is his reaction normal? Do all WSs get "tired" at times of the high maintenance BS issues? If so, I'm sure I can get over this incident. As I said, he is otherwise extremely compassionate and transparent, loving, apologetic... But in my wounded mind I worry that him getting "tired" is a sign that he's going back into the fog or something.

Just some WS perspective would be great... I suppose I'm hoping to hear that you're all still human and can't always be the perfectly remorseful spouse... sorry to "lead" you.


I will go down with this ship... Dido
BS-me,39 WS-him,41 (5 mo. EA/PA) M-18yrs & 3 kiddos.
Final DDay; October 17, 2009

Posts: 789 | Registered: Oct 2009
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 1:10 PM, January 11th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Elbell -

I'm not sure that it's getting tired of "high maintenance BS issues". It's more the uncertainty of never reaching a state where things will be better.

Picture climbing a 50 foot ladder. You reach 30 feet and slip, falling about 10 feet before you catch yourself and start back up. You get to 40 feet and slip again, this time only going 5 feet before resuming your upward climb. You get to 49 feet, tired, worn, but hopeful that you've reached the top. Then before you get your foot on the top rung, another 50 feet is added to the ladder so that you're only halfway up again.

You end up wondering if you can ever see the view from the top, or if sections will just keep getting added so that you never get to celebrate making it to the top.

Even worse, you are the one who created the need to climb in the first place, so you have no right complaining to anyone else.

Ironically, as much as you fear your WH is going into a fog, we WS's fear the depth of the damage we have done to our BS's can never be truly overcome. There is always an element in the back of our minds that although we are human, we're just one mistake from losing it all.


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
wincings_sparkle
♀ Member
Member # 27129
Default  Posted: 1:41 PM, January 11th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

WS's fear the depth of the damage we have done to our BS's can never be truly overcome. There is always an element in the back of our minds that although we are human, we're just one mistake from losing it all.

Yep.
Agree.

FWW 3yr 3m since D-Day


"When you hold resentment toward another, you are bound to that person or condition by an emotional link that is stronger than steel. Forgiveness is the only way to dissolve that link and get free."
- Catherine Ponder
Me-FWW. BH-wincing_at_light

Posts: 1594 | Registered: Jan 2010
Elbell
♀ Member
Member # 25814
Default  Posted: 2:53 PM, January 11th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thank you... very helpful. I'm great when someone gives me a "visual". It does help to have an inside perspective, I don't know that my FWH would be able to put it into words I would understand, but I'm guessing he would read your post and say, "yeah, that's what I mean!" So I'll let him read it... thank you again.


I will go down with this ship... Dido
BS-me,39 WS-him,41 (5 mo. EA/PA) M-18yrs & 3 kiddos.
Final DDay; October 17, 2009

Posts: 789 | Registered: Oct 2009
1DLW
♀ Member
Member # 21971
Default  Posted: 3:35 PM, January 11th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

LC, that was a great visual, a perfect description!

For me it's hard when my BH has triggers or gets upset. He tends to pull away, of course, like you pull your hand away from a hot stove, i hurt him and he doesn't want it to happen again. I get that, but it still hurts me, I get upset that I did this to him, and there's always that fear, will he just want to give up on us?
It's an irrational fear, he's working so hard at R, and I know he loves me, but our minds can't help but go there for a few minutes.


WS 42

Posts: 483 | Registered: Dec 2008
njgal480
♀ Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 3:55 PM, January 11th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Am I wrong? Am I crazy?
It's been 3 yrs since d-day. My husband had a long term affair (5 yrs!) with a married co-worker (who was a serial cheater...always with married co-workers).
Immediately after d-day he went NC and has never broken it! He is open and transparent, went to IC, MC, stopped drinking, went to AA and continues going to AA today.
So..my FWH is doing everything in his power to make it up to me...
I have been on an emotional roller coaster for 3 yrs now.
I still have questions and a need to discuss the affair even now.
That's when all hell breaks loose. My husband says that this is ridiculous, cruel, destructive ..to continue to discuss the affair.
I can be fine for a few days.. happy with my decision to reconcile, etc. and then a trigger will hit and I will feel upset, sad, anxious etc. and feel the need to ask my husband something or verify something...
Am I wrong, crazy, ridiculous?


Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
TICKED OFF
♀ Member
Member # 8291
Default  Posted: 11:41 PM, January 11th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

It's been 6 years since d-day 1 and 5 years since d-day 2. I must say that things are going pretty well now even though we still live next to the ow. It has been a hard road, but we have both toughed it out and seem to be heading in the right direction. HOWEVER there is one question that still haunts me every day that maybe you can answer.......

HOW in the world did my h, or any WS for that matter, put aside all of lifes values, morals, standards, and basically everything right that had been taught for an affair? To this day I still can't understand HOW my h could have just tossed aside all of his core values for a cheap a with our neighbor. Somewhere after the first romp in the hay my h HAD to have known that it was just PLAIN WRONG. No excuse in the world can make it right. There is no justification for what he did to himself, our marriage, me, and his best friend (ow's h). He KNEW it was wrong plain and simple.

I am by no means a saint, but I do (and did) know what right from wrong is. I also had several opportunities to cheat on my h, and though it crossed my mind once or twice, I would never had done it if just for my own principals and values that I was taught growing up.

So my question remains......How does one let all principals and values go to shit for a lousy affair? How can a person hurt another so deeply without ever giving it a thought as to why it is so wrong?


Posts: 2390 | Registered: Sep 2005
manAscending
♂ Member
Member # 26919
Default  Posted: 2:56 AM, January 12th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

@Ticked Off
How does one let all principals and values go to shit for a lousy affair?

I am a wayward husband. I also happened to graduate from university with a degree called a Bachelor of Ethics. Unfortunately, that didn't matter, nor did growing up having been raised in a church family. When I had my series of ONS, I wasn't thinking about philosohpy, theology, or morality. Though I KNEW my actions were objectively wrong, morality just didn't register.

What did register was the feeling that I was making the OW momentarily hopeful. Let me explain. After much reflection I realised that I perceived a deficiency in each of the OW--the social outcast, the one going nowhere in life, the young abandoned mother, and so on. I wasn't rescuing them; no, it was much more subtle than that. I was telling them that they were decent... that although we could obviously never be together (obvious to me because I was married), that somewhere, someday, the right person would find them interesting. Effectively, I was at once passing judgement on these women and, in my perverted misunderstanding, giving them the reassurance that they would find happiness--albeit with somebody else.

That made me feel good, that I was "helping" these women. But the situation was further confounded. With the worst possible timing, my infidelities began at a time when I felt like I didn't know how to support my wife through her other problems in life.

I did chew on many subconscious questions, and even asked, "Is what I'm doing wrong?" But the most compelling question I subconsciously asked was about my worth and validation: "Do I have what it takes to at least put a smile on somebody's face?" I was treating my saga of infidelity as a journey of self-discovery to confirm for myself that I still had the ability to help my marriage. After all, if I could make the OW smile, maybe I could make my wife smile.

Where did my church background go? What use was my Ethics degree? Where was my integrity? I still have a hard time answering those questions. Truthfully, anything I have to say by way of explanation is woefully inadequate. I bet your husband feels the same way.


Posts: 1648 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Ontario
Cloudy and Clear
♀ Member
Member # 25665
Default  Posted: 2:17 PM, January 12th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Listeningclosesly and unexpectedsong: I don't know if you guys could ever grasp what your contributions here on SI mean to us BS. When we don't understand and feel lost you throw us a life preserver and take the time to help us sort it all out.

Yes, I agree. Thank you so much... you have no idea how many times I've searched out YOUR posts. I bet hundreds have other have done so too.
Bless you!
CandC

[This message edited by Cloudy and Clear at 2:20 PM, January 12th (Tuesday)]




Posts: 76 | Registered: Sep 2009
renee21
♀ Member
Member # 27088
Default  Posted: 8:34 AM, January 13th (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I have a question for the WS out there...this might fall more in line with those that are dealing with SA....

A little background...my H first A was very much EA and PA...it took 5 yrs to work thru....he recently had a month long A with a mutual friend....claims it was a casual...she was there, had the urge and acted on it...type of thing...


He claims to have no type of emotional attachment to her at all....I haven't seen any signs of him missing her....is this possible?


BW(me) 36
WH-36 SA
Three kids 18, 16 and 9
Married 18 years.
Multiple D-Days, multiple OW and an OC
12/19/03,5/13/2004,12/5/2009, 2/20/2014
I am no longer a guest on the Jerry Springer Show.

Posts: 1258 | Registered: Jan 2010 | From: Florida
UnexpectedSong
♀ Member
Member # 21761
Default  Posted: 2:51 PM, January 13th (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Ticked Off -

HOW in the world did my h, or any WS for that matter, put aside all of lifes values, morals, standards, and basically everything right that had been taught for an affair?

Because it doesn't start out as an affair. When you find out on D-Day, it's like the frog being thrown into the boiling pot. But, if the frog were sitting in cold water and the pot was being heated up very slowly, it would take a long time for the frog to realize there was danger ahead.

An affair starts out as an exciting friendship. If you haven't talked to your spouse in awhile the way you did when you were dating, it's kind of nice that someone is interested in your thoughts. Add to it that what you talk about isn't "serious" - you don't have to discuss finances, which school for the kids, who will pick up whom... And it builds.

And every step further down that slope doesn't seem like a lot. It's only a big step when you look at the starting point.

How can a person hurt another so deeply without ever giving it a thought as to why it is so wrong?

The fallacy in this question is that you are assuming the Wayward wants to hurt you. The drunk driver who caused the accident wasn't out to hurt you, he was just trying to go somewhere else than where he was. Same with the Wayward.


WW(SA)
"Feedback is the breakfast of champions." - Boris Becker

Posts: 6046 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: California
UnexpectedSong
♀ Member
Member # 21761
Default  Posted: 2:57 PM, January 13th (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

renee21 -

He claims to have no type of emotional attachment to her at all....I haven't seen any signs of him missing her....is this possible?

It is totally possible. And very probably, for a SA. I have always maintained that, for me, having dinner with someone is more intimate than having sex with someone. (Yes, I know exactly how pathetic that sounds... now. It took therapy for me to realize this. I always thought it was a "healthy attitude" towards sex.)

[This message edited by UnexpectedSong at 2:59 PM, January 13th (Wednesday)]


WW(SA)
"Feedback is the breakfast of champions." - Boris Becker

Posts: 6046 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: California
TICKED OFF
♀ Member
Member # 8291
Default  Posted: 6:39 PM, January 13th (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

UnexpectedSong.....ok, I can see your point with the frog, however, when the pot started to sizzle, wouldn't the frog at least TRY to jump out to save himself knowing he didn't want to fry??? My h KNEW he was in deep shit but let the pot boil over anyway.

And as far as the drunk driver theory... not sure on that one. I actually could understand it happening once, but when it contines, it becomes a premetitated act rather than just a thought (IMO)

P.S. Again as always, thank you to the WS's who answer my questions...the same questions that my h never has had the guts to answer himself.


Posts: 2390 | Registered: Sep 2005
UnexpectedSong
♀ Member
Member # 21761
Default  Posted: 3:21 PM, January 14th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

TO -

I can see your point with the frog, however, when the pot started to sizzle, wouldn't the frog at least TRY to jump out to save himself knowing he didn't want to fry??? My h KNEW he was in deep shit but let the pot boil over anyway.

Clearly, my analogies are not perfect!

And as far as the drunk driver theory... not sure on that one. I actually could understand it happening once, but when it contines, it becomes a premetitated act rather than just a thought (IMO)

The analogy is this: the drunk driver is the wayward during the affair, however long it lasted. The accident is the aftermath for the marriage.

You've asked this question many times, in many different ways. What are you really searching for? Are you looking for why any person would do something "wrong" in the first place? Why would a person drink to excess? Why would someone steal a candy bar? Why would you drive over the speed limit?

I am not comparing the devastation of an affair with these seemingly minor things, but these are not facetious questions.

The person who steals cars didn't start out that way, unless that's what his father and brothers did. In general, there is an escalation. The first candy bar produced a thrill. Let's try a t-shirt next time. The step from a candy bar to a t-shirt is smaller than the step from not stealing to the candy bar. From the t-shirt to the bicycle is yet a smaller step.

From flirting to phone sex is a smaller step than from friendship to flirting.

A lot of serial killers start out with torturing animals. These kinds of things start out small. Some people do set out to have an affair, but that is still the result of a series of steps that they have taken to get there.

That first step is the "why". Once that first border is crossed, there is no reason to stop.

I'm not explaining this well. What's the difference between having sex once or 100 times? What's the difference between killing one person or 100? You can only be executed once.

Sorry, I don't have time to explain better than this now. Have to get back to work!

[This message edited by UnexpectedSong at 3:25 PM, January 14th (Thursday)]


WW(SA)
"Feedback is the breakfast of champions." - Boris Becker

Posts: 6046 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: California
MissesJai
♀ Member
Member # 24849
Default  Posted: 3:29 PM, January 14th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

renee21~
He claims to have no type of emotional attachment to her at all....I haven't seen any signs of him missing her....is this possible?

Absolutely - especially when you factor in the SA component. One characteristic of an SA is the inability to emotionally attach themselves to people...


FWW - 40
Nobody can make you feel inferior without your consent...

Posts: 5532 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: So Cal.....
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 7:31 AM, January 15th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

njgal -

Am I wrong, crazy, ridiculous?

For feeling you need to continue talking about it? No - you are perfectly within your rights to feel what you do and need what you do.

I think the reason you get the reaction you do is that every time we are asked to "revisit" our A, we are dragged back down to the lowest part of your life. We have to relive the pain that we and we alone created. It's a place we desperately try to escape when we realize what we have done. And every time the questions come up, we're dragged back down into the pit we're trying so hard to climb out of.

If you can find a way that both of you can meet in the middle it might help things. Maybe picking a certain time each week/month that you agree will be a time to go over things you are trying to understand? If you think of things in between, write them in a journal so you can remember to ask them later.


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
painpaingoaway
♀ Member
Member # 27196
Default  Posted: 9:00 AM, January 16th (Saturday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Oh God, I don't even know if I'm posting in the right spot or not. I've asked a similar question, but did not get many responses, and what I really want is for a male WS to answer me.

My husband has confessed only to a one night stand, and the only reason he finally confessed was that he had given me an STD. He denied it at first, but finally confessed after I went nuts on him and screamed in agony for one solid week.

Of course, since discovering that he initially lied to me over this ONS, I am having great trouble believing that anything he tells me is the truth. I doubt everything he says. He is extremely remorseful now, and trying to do everything possible not to lose me. He cries almost constantly now. He even cried in public the other day. This is a man that has never even cried in front of me before.

My burning questions for male wayward spouses are:

1: Since this ONS supposedly occurred in another city, 3 1/2 years ago, while he was working there for about 4 days, he says he can't remember the name of the bar where he met this woman, or her name, or the apt. complex where she lived that they went to to have sex.

2: He was willing last weekend to go with me to the city and try to find the bar. But when we rode up and down the road (he could remember the highway where the bar was) he said that he thought the bar had been torn down and replaced with some new shopping center.) I can't help but doubt what he is saying, but I do have to realize that what he is saying could be true. I told him I thought he was lying again, that it couldn't be possible that a person wouldn't remember ANY of those 3 things, and that if he didn't tell me the truth that I would leave him. He continued to say that he was telling the truth, and that he had no way to prove to me that he was telling the truth, and that he didn't know what to do. He begged and cried and looked like he was going to have a nervous breakdown. His reaction really scared me. I have never seen him so upset. I actually felt sorry for him.

3) Is it possible for someone to contract an STD after only one sexual encounter? Has this happened to any of you wayward male spouses?

4) Is it possible that a male wayward spouse would not remember either the name of the woman, the name of the bar, or the name of the apt. complex where she lived? Or do you think he is just covering up.

5) If he's covering up, why? What would he have to protect in a situation like this if it was truly a one night stand?

I'm so confused and in such agony over this I don't know whether to let it go or not.

Help me please, I truly want to let go of this.


me BS female 55/him WS 58
Married 33 years
D-day July 09/he gave me his slut's STD
Watch my movie: "My wayward husband's adventures in STD land":
Episode 1: youtu.be/9Jv0-d_CdYc
Episode 2: http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8Tz822H82Gk

Posts: 6763 | Registered: Jan 2010 | From: Coastal South
kitticat
♀ Member
Member # 23060
Default  Posted: 2:33 PM, January 16th (Saturday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

If this happened 3 1/2 years ago, and if there was alcohol involved, then yes, he just might not remember the details. Does your reconciliation really depend on him remembering and you knowing all the details?

Yes, you can get an STD from a ONS.

Hopefully if this was truly a ONS you can get past it and look to the future.


Me - BS 61
Him - FWS 60
M 28 yrs, together 30 yrs.
2 adult offspring
D-Day: 8-2-07, TT for 6 weeks
15 random sexual encounters over 4 years.
R

Posts: 891 | Registered: Feb 2009
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