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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: BS Questions for WS"s III
grace09
♀ Member
Member # 26808
Default  Posted: 2:06 PM, January 25th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Skye - the first thing out of my mouth when I realized my BH knew about my A was "our marriage has to end". As a WW, I saw no possibility of him ever wanting to remain married to me. A few days later, I trickle truthed the rest of the story. Again, as soon as I finished, I said I would leave the marriage - and I meant it. But, my BH loves me so much that he didn't let that happen. He has been so hurt and angry and hasn't been sure he could stay married to me. But, he was willing to try to R and suggested we start MC right away and we did. It's been six months and the only reason I believe that we have a chance at a good marriage again is because my husband has given me that hope. We have a long way to go, but I thank God every day that he is willing to try to save the M.


Me - FWW
Dday 7/09
MC began the week of D-Day, but not yet forgiven

Posts: 161 | Registered: Dec 2009
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 2:29 PM, January 25th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

flower2010 -

He is never forthcoming - it's me asking questions and then later saying, 'ok - i know there's more.' It's very frustrating. My one question is - are there some things about the A that you will take to your grave?

I don't know if it's always about having a secret you want to take to the grave. IT depends on where you are in the healing process.

Every time a WS goes through a Q&A session, they are pulled back in to relive their actions. Only now it's through the lens of the damage those actions caused. If the WS is a conflict avoider, the early temptation is to just answer the question as quickly as possible and then get away from the topic to get away from the conflict.

As time went on and I found more strength through IC, I was better able to face the impact of my actions head on. It wasn't easier - it's never been easy to face what I did. But I am better prepared to do so now than I was before IC helped me find healthy ways to address conflict.


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
Skye
Member
Member # 325
Default  Posted: 2:31 PM, January 25th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks, Grace. Do you think your reaction was different as a woman. My husband never expected the marriage to end. And I won't end it because I don't want the changes being a single old woman would bring. I took care of him and our marriage for over 30 years when he cheated. My guess is he would like me to get the divorce, but I'm tired of doing for him.

Posts: 5586 | Registered: Jul 2002
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 2:37 PM, January 25th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

findingmyplace -

How do the WS's find their way out of the fog? Granted, I know it is an individual process, but was there something read or said that really struck a chord with the WS?

For me it's been clear consequences for my actions. When my feet have been held to the fire, it's been a lot easier to see my way out of the fog.

D-Day was a start, and then triggers along the way kept me focused on the goal of doing the work I had to do to earn the right to R.


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 2:45 PM, January 25th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Skye -

Perhaps you could give me some perspective of how a WS would think they could have a good marriage after infidelity.

In the early going, I couldn't give you one. I basically had to tell myself that if my BW was willing to give me a chance on blind faith I would come through, I owed it to her to believe that we could fully R on blind faith alone.

Now with hindsight, I can say that it can definitely be done. It takes a lot of hard work by both people. I am a better person now than I was before the A. Honestly, I think the me of today is more worthy of my BW than the me even before the A started.


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 2:49 PM, January 25th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

cantbelieve -

Why do WS protect the OW???

There's a self protection mechanism running for a WS. To admit that the OP was bad in any way tears down any sense of justification the WS had inside for having the A. Inside you start asking "what kind of low life idiot would have an A with THAT person?!?!?".

When your self esteem is already non existent, admitting the truth about the OP just makes things feel 100 times worse.


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
Skye
Member
Member # 325
Default  Posted: 2:55 PM, January 25th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Listening, if she wasn't willing to give you a second chance, would you have left? I can't understand why my husband would choose to cheat and then want a relationship with me. I realize only he can answer that, but he can't.

Posts: 5586 | Registered: Jul 2002
grace09
♀ Member
Member # 26808
Default  Posted: 3:12 PM, January 25th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Skye - I think it's quite possible that, in general, women react differently than men.

I can't understand why my husband would choose to cheat and then want a relationship with me.

I'm pretty sure almost all BS feel that way. I can tell you that there are many, many WSs that do want exactly that. It's a very hard question for us to answer. We can see how it wouldn't make sense to you. On top of that, we've already proven to be liars and don't know what we can say that you can believe. There's lots of good information on this site that might help you. If you can, try reading some of the posts in the Wayward forum. I found this site because my BH was reading the posts, trying to understand why I did what I did and he shared it with me.

I just saw that you are a member since 2002. Has it been that long since Dday?


Me - FWW
Dday 7/09
MC began the week of D-Day, but not yet forgiven

Posts: 161 | Registered: Dec 2009
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 3:13 PM, January 25th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Skye -

Listening, if she wasn't willing to give you a second chance, would you have left?

Only if that's what would make her happiest in the long run. I didn't see it clearly because I was so foggy at the time. But my internal compass was telling me I loved my BW deeply. It's that love that, when faced with having to commit to the M or get a D, caused me to commit to the M. It's that love that, in the long run, has enabled me to work on my screwed up self and get back to where I should have been all along.

But if my BW told me she wanted nothing more to do with me, it's that love that would give me the strength to let her go if that's what she wanted.


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
MissesJai
♀ Member
Member # 24849
Default  Posted: 3:22 PM, January 25th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

flower2010 ~

I am still getting trickle truth from WS. I know there's more and he's probably afraid it will really hurt me but I just want the truth

You need to express to your WH the consequences of TT. He needs to know that there is a price to pay for failing to fully disclose everything. Granted, it is a month past d-day and if he’s anything like me, he’s absolutely holding on to things because he’s afraid to hurt you anymore than he already has. That doesn’t excuse his behavior, but it may explain it a bit. I would definitely suggest you telling him just that – “I know there's more and I know you’re probably afraid it will really hurt me but I just NEED the truth. There’s no way we can heal if there are still lies out there. If you’re committed to R, then you will give me what I need – the truth.”

He is never forthcoming - it's me asking questions and then later saying, 'ok - i know there's more.'

So stop doing this. Demand the entire truth. Set some boundaries. As long as he knows this is the pattern, he will continue to follow the pattern. You ask – he answers. You reply with a frustrated, “Ok, I know there’s more” – he accepts your answer and waits for your next set of questions. Since he seems to like the whole 20 questions bit, try and write down as many questions as possible and give him the list and then define the manner in which you want your answers – face to face, in a letter, email, etc. Only YOU can decide what you will accept and what you won’t and only YOU can communicate this to him in a way that makes sense and lets him know you mean business….

I have one specific concern and I keep asking WS about it, but he swears he is telling the truth. However I have learned to listen to my gut…

There are those times, albeit few and very far between, that one’s gut is wrong. BH had a gut feeling about one aspect of the A that turned out not to be true. He was adamant, I mean really adamant, that he was 100% right about it and after he did his own PI work, he found out he was 100% wrong. It’s possible this is the case with your WH.

findingmyplace ~

was there something read or said that really struck a chord with the WS?

I would suggest either directing her to SI and have her read any one of the posts in Just Found Out. If she’s unwilling to do that, simply print out some posts from JFO and show them to her. Let her see with her own eyes the pain that’s involved with this entire situation. That might help...

[This message edited by MissesJai at 3:32 PM, January 25th (Monday)]


FWW - 40
Nobody can make you feel inferior without your consent...

Posts: 5528 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: So Cal.....
figureitout
♀ Member
Member # 23997
Default  Posted: 3:30 PM, January 25th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

cantbelieve -

Why do WS protect the OW???


Listeningclosley is right...

For me it was protection of things deep within me...not so much of the OP.

How could *I* be so wrong in what I thought and felt? How could I say that I truly felt very little for OP?

So to say things that seem to protect OP I am really protecting *My* gut reactions to the what the A seemed to contain for me.
To say that everything was ALL wrong, I have to say that *I* was all wrong in what I thought or felt and I can not trust my own feelings.

This is hugely confusing because it happens at the same time that my BS wants to know what I feel for them, for our M. And I am faced with admitting that I do not know what I feel or think....what I thought I felt is wrong...what I don't feel should be right...
Like Up is Down or Red is really Blue.

This is very well a time you may hear...'I Just Don't Know' from your WS.

It is a process that WS go through in accepting that they could do something soooo horrible, shameful, and painful in the people in their life.

I know it takes time...


M-30+ yr
Dday 8/09

Posts: 308 | Registered: May 2009
findingmyplace
♀ Member
Member # 24512
Default  Posted: 4:48 PM, January 25th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

For those WS's who are still married, were you "done" with your marriage when the A started or after it got going? If so, how did you get to the point of reconciliation?

Posts: 557 | Registered: Jun 2009
MissesJai
♀ Member
Member # 24849
Default  Posted: 6:05 PM, January 25th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

findingmyplace ~
For those WS's who are still married, were you "done" with your marriage when the A started or after it got going?

No, not at all. I was never done with my marriage and never had planned to leave...I was a cake eater...


FWW - 40
Nobody can make you feel inferior without your consent...

Posts: 5528 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: So Cal.....
BaxtersBFF
♂ Member
Member # 26859
Default  Posted: 6:29 PM, January 25th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

findingmyplace,
For those WS's who are still married, were you "done" with your marriage when the A started or after it got going? If so, how did you get to the point of reconciliation?
In a way, yes, I was done before the A. But the reasons for being done all sound like excuses for the A so I see it differently now (meaning I own my own shit on that one).

BW and I have talked about it a lot and she has said that she saw glimpses of the man she knew I could be every now and again during my two year stint in the fog. I believe those glimpses corespond to those moments where I realized what I could lose if I were to D. What kicked me off the fence and mostly out of the fog was learning my BW had a bag packed and was ready to go. That allowed me to start seeing R as a possibility and it wasn't long after that I started wanting to R.


WH - 44
BW - gerrygirl

Posts: 6048 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Boise
grace09
♀ Member
Member # 26808
Default  Posted: 6:38 PM, January 25th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Findingmyplace - Before the A, I was convinced my H didn't love me or want me anymore (I was completely wrong). So, maybe out of self protection, I convinced myself that I didn't love my H either. Also, completely wrong. That's not why I had the A and doesn't justify it in any way. Once in the A, I initially thought I loved OM and would eventually end my M. This fact is probably the hardest thing of all for my H to get over. Later, I realized I didn't love, or really even like, OM. But, despite attempts to end it, I kept going back for more. I still thought it was just a matter of time before my M was over. Then, things began to change. Just about the time I ended the A, began to realize that I loved my H and wanted to spend the rest of my life with him, he discovered the A. And, of course the shit hit the fan. I wanted R from day one. Fortunately, at some level, so did he. That doesn't mean it will happen, but we are trying. Hope this helps.


Me - FWW
Dday 7/09
MC began the week of D-Day, but not yet forgiven

Posts: 161 | Registered: Dec 2009
BaxtersBFF
♂ Member
Member # 26859
Default  Posted: 7:01 PM, January 25th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

cantbelieve,

Why do WS protect the OW??? I'm angry that my H has never said anything bad about the OW. When I told him this, he implied that he pursued her. It's all his fault. However, she accepted, knowing he was married.
Sorry for your frustration and I hope I don't add to it to much. I just read your profile story. The similarities are that me and my BW weren't getting what we needed from each other and we turned to others. The difference is that I had an EA, not a PA, with an old flame.

I defend(ed) the MOW because I felt she was in the same boat as me. She was not a serial cheater. Neither of us expected to end up where we did. If I said something bad about OW, I would be saying something bad about me.

In the case of your WH, he was involved with OW for a very long time. Is she a serial cheater? does she make a habit of persuing MM? If he really did persue OW, then he probably feels responsible for what he has done to her.

Also, figureitout has a great point. The A was the WS's truth at that time. It takes a long time for many WS's to begin accepting that it was really a lie. Even then, he may not be willing to stop defending OW. He may always see his crime as worse than hers.


WH - 44
BW - gerrygirl

Posts: 6048 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Boise
shatteredwindow
♂ Member
Member # 27051
Default  Posted: 7:09 PM, January 25th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Can anyone look at my question on page 42 and tell me what you think? I appreciate it.

Should I move the question to another forum...


Posts: 84 | Registered: Jan 2010
always learning
♀ Member
Member # 23461
Default  Posted: 8:19 PM, January 25th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

shatteredwindow,

I engaged in cyber sex with the OM and I was uncomfortable with it. He pushed me to participate ( I take full responsibility for participating) but I was uncomfortable with it but did get aroused and "wet" from these events.

The OM's behavior during these "sessions" also started to shake me out of the fog but I still participated for I was afraid if I didn't he wouldn't "like me" anymore. It all stemmed from my own low self-esteem. So I can believe what your wife said for I felt the same way.

I gave in to a lot of what he wanted including meeting up with him in cars in parking garages, sending him nude photos, which I wouldn't even send my husband at the time. When i sent him a topless photo he then wanted my face in one nude photo. I said no, he pushed and pushed and I gave in. That is the photo his wife, my former friend found on his iPhone. All this I did so he would continue to "like me". I felt like such a fool.

I have forgiven myself for such foolishness and thankfully so has my husband.


FWW - Me (42)
BH- Him (40)
Met '94, Married '96.
3 kids DS 13, DD, 8, DD 6.
D-Day December '08.
Status: Reconciling

Posts: 67 | Registered: Apr 2009 | From: Midwest
njgal480
♀ Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 8:20 PM, January 25th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Another question about why WS can't discuss the OW calmly....?
It's been 3 yrs since d-day...why can't my husband finally be able to look back and analyze ..what happened...what she was really like? ( a sexual predator, serial cheater, manipulator, etc.)....
he walks out of the room rather than talk about her...


Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
BaxtersBFF
♂ Member
Member # 26859
Default  Posted: 8:26 PM, January 25th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

shatteredwindow,

My wife had an EA online affair with and old boyfriend

Here are my questions WSs…Would someone, who supposedly felt extremely uncomfortable during this conversation say those types of things (especially the “wet” and “gag reflex” comments) to someone they say was berated them for not fully participating? What was the motivation to offer more information that absolutely necessary? How I am supposed to believe that she was struggling to participate in this conversation with comments like this? She also said she thought she was coming out of the fog a little at that point and that’s why she hesitated and felt uncomfortable during this last chat. How can that be?
Thanks for your help.

I had an EA with an old flame. From what I have learned, thanks to this post: http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=315647 (you have to read the first few pages and some supporting links)
is that this type of EA is like a drug. It is literally like getting high. I try not to use this as an excuse for the EA, as I made the choice to have one, but it really explained to me what was going on and how I could have said and done the things I did.

In the case of your WW's EA, if it was like mine, with an old flame, then I could easily see how she could say those things to OM. Even if your WW was coming out of her fog during that last conversation, the lure of the high is hard to overcome. D-day for me was over a year ago and I finally committed to R about a month ago and I am still scared of that high.

Hope this helps


WH - 44
BW - gerrygirl

Posts: 6048 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Boise
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