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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: BS Questions for WS"s III
onlysolution
♀ Member
Member # 23160
Default  Posted: 3:13 PM, February 2nd (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

"Does the OW or OM ever sincerely apologize to the WS - especially if the know the BS?? Is that almost impossible?"

I did sincerely apologize to the OM's wife through an email. I also did apologize to the OM when I ended things with him and commited to working on my marriage. He also apologized to me and I believe he would have apologized to my H, but my H made it very clear to him that he did not want to hear anything from OM.

"My WH says he loves me and I'm his soulmate and true love and the love of his life. How can that be? It just doesn't make any sense. Could some of the WS's explain how that sentiment could be true even for someone who has been engaged in an affair?"

I feel like this is true for me, but that does not mean I did not feel love for the OM. I did, very much. I just realized that the love I had for my H contained so very much more...the list is so long and complex and includes so many facets of life.

"Did any WS feel guilt or disgust about sleeping with both people at the time it was happening?"

Yes, very much and it was in some ways like watching someone else do something that you could not believe they could do. This extreme guilt and disgust is what prompted me to make a decision to leave my marriage because I could not go on lying and I could not seem to end the affair. (I did not leave my marriage in the end).

"how any of you have gotten to the point where you know you wouldn't do it again (or have struggled to stay faithful)."

I do not know this for sure. I am sure I would never again get involved with another man, but I do fear once in a while feelings I still might have for OM. Even when I write this I want to go back a delete it, because I think, no never, ever could I do that again. But, I never thought I could in the first place and yet I did. So, how can I know?


FWW: Me 52
BH: 54
Married 34 years
Recovery - Over 4 years

Posts: 448 | Registered: Mar 2009
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 3:27 PM, February 2nd (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Razor -

1 = In the WS POV is there a time limit on transparency? Long after Dday is there a time when having private (secret) email accounts is ok? Or changing the password on known accounts to be some thing you BS does not know?

I don't feel there is a time limit on transparency. But I also feel transparency should be in place for both BS and WS for a M to work. An M cannot be supported with lies and/or secrets in place. Wells has full access to any and all accounts I use, but I have the same with her as well.

2 = You know of the BS *diet plan* wherein many loose significant weight after Dday. Is there a WS version? My WW gained allot of weight and has kept it on after Dday. Is this common? If so. What is behind it?

I lost a lot of weight during the A, then managed to gain about half of it back after D-Day. For me, the loss was due to the stress of maintaining a double life combined with poor eating habits (i.e. skipping lunch to have time to talk with xMOW during the day). It was not sustainable and should not have been sustained for any reason.

The weight gain came from resuming normal eating patterns, as well as having the stress level shift. I was still stressed with the work of R, but it was a different kind if stress that didn't seem to affect my metabolism in the same way.


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
onlysolution
♀ Member
Member # 23160
Default  Posted: 3:27 PM, February 2nd (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

"Yet another question that has me puzzled. How long did you or do you waffle back and forth between wanting the M to work or just walking away?"

All my waffling happened before the affair started and during the affair. Once the affair was brought to light and I saw the destruction to both families I realized that I could not live with myself and do this. When my H offered forgiveness and love I knew it was the only thing I could do. This does not mean it was easy to move forward and forget OM, but I knew there was no way I could leave my marriage and family.


FWW: Me 52
BH: 54
Married 34 years
Recovery - Over 4 years

Posts: 448 | Registered: Mar 2009
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 3:34 PM, February 2nd (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

nlovemyfamily -

What were your realizations about why you stayed in it and your thinking that came about when you stepped out of A? Need some understanding of the power while under the effects of A?

The basic answer is simple. I had not developed a solid belief in myself and relied on others to carry that belief for me. When conditions made the M less supportive of external validation, I allowed myself to find it elsewhere. Because I also feared conflict and basically forecast losing every debate with my BW about how I felt, I never confronted her with what I was feeling.

The details behind the issues are far more complex. Any number of experiences from how my parents modeled dealing with to being bullied in school created the lack of self esteem I was facing. It's taken quite some time for me to understand myself and my issues.

The catalyst for being different from during the A is the will to face down your weaknesses and to repair them. During the A, the draw was that it was an easy, conflict free way out. Conflict free, that is, until D-Day. Once the element of conflict existed in both paths (A or R), I was forced to make a choice.


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 3:42 PM, February 2nd (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

crushed again

How long did you or do you waffle back and forth between wanting the M to work or just walking away?

Maybe a few times over the initial 24 hours after D-Day. The path past this indecision point is the same whether addicted to drugs, alcohol or an A.

Consequences

It was clear in the aftermath of D-Day that I was either to be all in for the M or we were heading for D. No trial separations. No cake eating. Either I fully committed to the M or we were no longer going to be married. that was a pretty powerful driver in breaking through the fog and jumping off the fence.

The more time spent away from the OP, the less pining for them takes place and the more gratitude emerges for the gift of R extended by the BS. But that only comes when the BS establishes clear and unwaivering consequences for wrong choices by the WS.


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
crushed again
♀ Member
Member # 26138
Default  Posted: 3:51 PM, February 2nd (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thank-you for your candid answers once again! I am still 180ing w/my WH and our MC suggested only 'surface' talk for the next couple weeks. I really appreciate your honest answers on here since I feel I cannot ask WH. It gives me some peace of mind.


"Don't you worry your pretty little mind because people throw rocks at things that shine!"
~I guess living in limbo is my "new normal"- stinks!~

Posts: 713 | Registered: Nov 2009 | From: Dreaming of a far better place!
stuck808
♂ New Member
Member # 24976
Default  Posted: 7:25 PM, February 2nd (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Here's my question.

I caught my W in an EA with her boss (some kissing). After I did, she immediately demanded a D. This was two years ago. We are separated and she hasn't done anything to move the D forward.

She denies that what happened was an A and that she just doesn't love me anymore (since day one) and just wants out. She's never explained to me what was wrong with our R and she has mood swings from being very friendly to me to threatening to call the cops when I haven't done anything.

She has this sense of "entitlement" where she feels it's okay to treat me like crap and justifies things by saying that she just doesn't love me any more. Total lack of respect to me.

She also has never apologized for anything. Even for the way she's been treating me after admitting to me that she knew she was treating me bad. Very different from the way she used to be before all this happened.

She still works with the guy so but not directly under him any more. I know she doesn't have a R with him anymore, but I'm wondering if she still is emotionally tied to him. And if she's looking for someone else to give her that "high" from the A.

I'm wondering if her behavior is normal?

When she acts like a child and gets angry for not getting what she wants, how should I treat her? She's accused me of being "controlling" but it's only controlling when she doesn't get what she wants.


Posts: 27 | Registered: Jul 2009
WheredoIgonow
♀ Member
Member # 27130
Default  Posted: 7:48 PM, February 2nd (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Let me try this again...

Does the OW or OM ever sincerely apologize to the BS - especially if they know the BS?? Is that almost impossible?


Me; BS (54)
Him: WS (56)
Married 29 years
DD-28, DS-26, DS-18, DS-16
OW#1 - PA - 4 1/2 years
OW#2 - EA/PA - 5 months
He thought she was his soulmate - was going to move out- confessed about OW#2 when asked. OW#1 revealed them.

Posts: 605 | Registered: Jan 2010
always learning
♀ Member
Member # 23461
Default  Posted: 8:13 PM, February 2nd (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

WheredoIgoknow,

I am a WW who had an affair with the husband of a couple my husband and I were friends with. After the OM's wife found my pictures on his iPhone I did send and email to her apologizing for my part in the affair. We exchanged emails back and forth and she said she didn't want to speak to me so I have never had a chance to apologize to her face but I would if she asked. I felt at this point it was best for me to stay away.

The OM sent my husband and email apologizing but he lied in the email and my husband knew he lied for I had come clean about what had happened. My husband basically doesn't consider the email he sent him an apology because of the lies.


FWW - Me (42)
BH- Him (40)
Met '94, Married '96.
3 kids DS 13, DD, 8, DD 6.
D-Day December '08.
Status: Reconciling

Posts: 67 | Registered: Apr 2009 | From: Midwest
BaxtersBFF
♂ Member
Member # 26859
Default  Posted: 9:52 PM, February 2nd (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

WheredoIgonow,

I have read some posts where the BS seems to appreciate an apology from OP. Other BS's would rather have no contact whatsoever.

In my case, I am the OM also (many WS play this duel role) and I have no intention of ever talking to the OW's BH. Through a bizarre set of circumstances I was introduced to him and shook his hand. But no, I will never apologize to him.

Do you want the AP to apologize to you? Will it make a difference for your situation?


WH - 44
BW - gerrygirl

Posts: 6061 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Boise
findingmyplace
♀ Member
Member # 24512
Default  Posted: 7:10 AM, February 3rd (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

At first, I thought there was an emotional connection, but my WH told me, "It wasn't like that." So, then after hearing more what he was saying, I thought he was saying it was just about sex - a F*** Buddy thing. When I used that term months ago to try to figure it out, the phrase stopped WH in his tracks. Now, I don't think that is it, either, based on his reaction. Unfortunately, we aren't in a place where we can talk about this at the moment, but now I really want to understand what it was.

I know I'm too black and white in my thinking. Can someone help me understand what lies in between?


Posts: 557 | Registered: Jun 2009
shatteredwindow
♂ Member
Member # 27051
Default  Posted: 10:59 AM, February 3rd (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I have read numerous forums, books and articles on the WS responsiblities to the BS for healing. I have a question and concern about my xWW (she posts on here from time to time) not giving full disclosure because of the embarassment, shame and guilt about her A. Let me start by saying the my WWs IC has told her it's time to start moving past the what move to the why of the A (after 3 IC sessions). I believe we have moved past most of the what and done a good job with the why. My problem is that some of the what is still coming out. How can we move totally away from it when A things keep popping up all the time.

My WW has, at times, TTd me by not giving a full description of an event I've asked about (only enough to answer the question) at different stages of the two month period since DDay. For example, I asked why she deleted a poem off her FB info page recently. She said it reminded her of OM because he had made a comment about the poem. I left it at that. Last night she was having an issue anwering a question I asked her and we had an argument. After we had worked through the argument and were talking again she told me the real reason she deleted the poem. WW had sent it to OM through a farmtown FB note. She also told me recently that she had lied to me about using her work email to correspond.

I believe WW is being transparent about emails, cell phones, etc... However, the TT is the one area of my concern. I tell her that getting it all over at once would save this constant trigger, argue, trigger issue. Help me, I'm at a loss.


Posts: 84 | Registered: Jan 2010
onlysolution
♀ Member
Member # 23160
Default  Posted: 12:12 PM, February 3rd (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I think there is a difference between truth and details. Someone can be truthful without giving all the details, or someone can leave out details purposefully to change the truth. It it hard for a WS to know how many details to include because too many truthful details can just be cruel and the BS honestly does not want to hear these. My H and I had discussion about this at times when he wasn't asking questions so I could be sure that when he was asking I was telling him what he wanted to know...not more details and not less.

You can end up obsessed with details that really do not change the situation. I think sometimes this obsession comes from the feeling that the WS is holding back and that you only get to hear what they want to tell you rather than how much you want to hear. The BS has to feel in control of how many or how few details they hear. Once a BS feels in control they may be able to let go of the obsession.


FWW: Me 52
BH: 54
Married 34 years
Recovery - Over 4 years

Posts: 448 | Registered: Mar 2009
stuck808
♂ New Member
Member # 24976
Default  Posted: 1:04 PM, February 3rd (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

bump

Here's my question.

I caught my W in an EA with her boss (some kissing). After I did, she immediately demanded a D. This was two years ago. We are separated and she hasn't done anything to move the D forward.

She denies that what happened was an A and that she just doesn't love me anymore (since day one) and just wants out. She's never explained to me what was wrong with our R and she has mood swings from being very friendly to me to threatening to call the cops when I haven't done anything.

She has this sense of "entitlement" where she feels it's okay to treat me like crap and justifies things by saying that she just doesn't love me any more. Total lack of respect to me.

She also has never apologized for anything. Even for the way she's been treating me after admitting to me that she knew she was treating me bad. Very different from the way she used to be before all this happened.

She still works with the guy so but not directly under him any more. I know she doesn't have a R with him anymore, but I'm wondering if she still is emotionally tied to him. And if she's looking for someone else to give her that "high" from the A.

I'm wondering if her behavior is normal?

When she acts like a child and gets angry for not getting what she wants, how should I treat her? She's accused me of being "controlling" but it's only controlling when she doesn't get what she wants.


Posts: 27 | Registered: Jul 2009
shatteredwindow
♂ Member
Member # 27051
Default  Posted: 1:54 PM, February 3rd (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Onlysolution,
I appreciate the response.

Let me add that this was an online EA where 1100 miles separated my WW and the OM. I don't think I'm going to hear anything much more damning than I already have.

My issue is that I know she lied about certain things in the early stages after DDay (the EA was 2-3 months in length). I have proof of the lies and she has owned up to some of them. All want is to know that she is being truthful with herself as well as with me. If she knows things doesn't she need to come clean once and for all so we can move on? Otherwise, in the back of mind I'm thinking I am trying to R with someone who is either still in the fog or can't stop spinning versions of the truth or both.

Thanks.


Posts: 84 | Registered: Jan 2010
onlysolution
♀ Member
Member # 23160
Default  Posted: 2:05 PM, February 3rd (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm wondering if her behavior is normal?

When she acts like a child and gets angry for not getting what she wants, how should I treat her? She's accused me of being "controlling" but it's only controlling when she doesn't get what she wants.

There is really no 'normal' behavior. This is your wife and it is her behavior. You have to decide whether or not you can live with this type of treatment.


FWW: Me 52
BH: 54
Married 34 years
Recovery - Over 4 years

Posts: 448 | Registered: Mar 2009
UnexpectedSong
♀ Member
Member # 21761
Default  Posted: 2:22 PM, February 3rd (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

stuck808 -

When she acts like a child and gets angry for not getting what she wants, how should I treat her?

Treat her however you want.

Just know that you cannot control anyone into what you want. You cannot make her not get angry, you cannot make her apologize, you cannot make her admit she had an affair. All you can do is decide what you can live with.


WW(SA)
"Feedback is the breakfast of champions." - Boris Becker

Posts: 6046 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: California
stuck808
♂ New Member
Member # 24976
Default  Posted: 6:14 PM, February 3rd (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks everyone.

I guess my main question is:

Is this sense of entitlement normal? Is the defensiveness and anger directed to the LBS a regular behavior by the WS?

She was the sweetest person around towards me, but now it's like I'm her enemy.


Posts: 27 | Registered: Jul 2009
Just Crushed
♂ Member
Member # 24852
Default  Posted: 11:13 AM, February 5th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Stuck,

I'm a BS that is going through some similar stuff: WW had mostly EA w/ kissing, no apology, WW say she is not in love w/ me (she doesn't say it directly to me), WW is angry at me and kids often.

Anywho...I do think it is normal to vilianize (sp?) the BS to justify the WSs actions. It's a way to protect themselves from the truth...which is they have done a horrible disgusting thing. It seems it is very hard for them to face the truth that they are 100% responsible for this mess. It's much easier to blame the marriage, the BS or [insert excuse here]. This takes the burden off of the WS.

And yes, my WW tried to say that her relationship was not an A at first. She now allows me to say it was an A, but I don't believe she believes it was.

Anyway...I Can Relate.

[This message edited by Just Crushed at 11:13 AM, February 5th (Friday)]


BH
*details in Profile*

Posts: 843 | Registered: Jul 2009
Just Crushed
♂ Member
Member # 24852
Default  Posted: 11:41 AM, February 5th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Now, my Q for WSs...

My WW will not address the A. She's NC now, however, she did break NC to get "closure".

My take on things are as follows:
1 - WW does not believe her EA is that big a deal
2 - WW blames me/marriage for her unhappiness
3 - Our financial problems are much more important than dealing w/ the A stuff (BTW, there would be significantly less financial probs if I wasn't so f'd up over the A)
4 - She doesn't "feel" in love with me so how can she pretend to reassure me that I am the one she loves (poorly worded...but, you get the idea).
5 - I actually believe she thinks our R is going OK (she just keeps sweeping the mess feverishly under the rug).

I know I will not survive this M w/o remorse from her. I also know I cannot "make" her feel remorse or love me.

So, are there any WSs that had similar circumstances that decided to commit to R and M 100%? As in, have an epiphany. If yes, what did it take for you to get there?

Oh crap...I just realized I've asked this question with different wording and of different people many times here on SI.

[This message edited by Just Crushed at 11:46 AM, February 5th (Friday)]


BH
*details in Profile*

Posts: 843 | Registered: Jul 2009
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