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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: BS Questions for WS"s III
MissesJai
♀ Member
Member # 24849
Default  Posted: 12:04 PM, February 5th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

stuck808 ~
Is this sense of entitlement normal? Is the defensiveness and anger directed to the LBS a regular behavior by the WS?

For a foggy WS, yep, that's pretty par for the course. Why? Well, there could be many reasons. I wasn't like this but I've seen many examples of this. Often times, it's because the WS truly feels they didn't do anything wrong. That their actions were justified in some way. The other reason could be the WS is angry at the BS for "destroying" their "fantasy" because that's what an affair is - a fantasy. You rained on her parade, busted her bubble, etc. Could be that she's pissed that she got caught. One thing's for sure - she's definitely NOT remorseful. Now it's up to you to decide how long you will tolerate this treatment. You're not the enemy - seems to me your WW is her own worst enemy....JMHO...


FWW - 40
Nobody can make you feel inferior without your consent...

Posts: 5525 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: So Cal.....
crushed again
♀ Member
Member # 26138
Default  Posted: 12:13 PM, February 5th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Ditto to Just Crushed
questions. My WH seems to want to use every excuse in the book, i.e. work, school, love you but not in love with you, his LONLINESS, people change, blah, blah & blah to not have the TIME to rebuild our M. Says he DOESN'T want to D but isn't really showing much of an effort to save the M. Seems he also thinks that by sweeping everything under the rug will make it all go away.
Did any WS on here have their BS say "time to man/woman up to what you did and start helping ME fix this mess?!" I feel as the BS I am the one doing all the work while WH continues to play the poor me victim.


"Don't you worry your pretty little mind because people throw rocks at things that shine!"
~I guess living in limbo is my "new normal"- stinks!~

Posts: 713 | Registered: Nov 2009 | From: Dreaming of a far better place!
onlysolution
♀ Member
Member # 23160
Default  Posted: 3:52 PM, February 5th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Did any WS on here have their BS say "time to man/woman up to what you did and start helping ME fix this mess?!"

I don't believe that this would ever work. You cannot push someone into working on the marriage. The WS's that put effort into the marriage are the ones who have realized how important there marriage is and want it more than anything. Your WS may want to stay married, but he only wants it if it is easy for him. You have to decide what you want from him, tell him, and be prepared to separate if he is not willing. That is probably the only way he will 'man-up'.


FWW: Me 52
BH: 54
Married 34 years
Recovery - Over 4 years

Posts: 448 | Registered: Mar 2009
UnexpectedSong
♀ Member
Member # 21761
Default  Posted: 5:01 PM, February 5th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Just Crushed -
So, are there any WSs that had similar circumstances that decided to commit to R and M 100%? As in, have an epiphany. If yes, what did it take for you to get there?

Not exactly the same situation... but are you willing to leave the marriage?

My husband told me he would divorce me and take the kids away. I believed him. (I would have fought like hell for the kids, though.)


WW(SA)
"Feedback is the breakfast of champions." - Boris Becker

Posts: 6046 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: California
Just Crushed
♂ Member
Member # 24852
Default  Posted: 6:33 PM, February 5th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

but are you willing to leave the marriage?
vs. not healing or being in a loving relationship...yes.


BH
*details in Profile*

Posts: 843 | Registered: Jul 2009
just breathe.
♀ Member
Member # 25604
Default  Posted: 6:58 PM, February 5th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

So another question for the WS's (and thank you for being around to answer them).

Background: Mr. JB told me that every single day he thinks about what he's done and how much he's hurt me...but if I don't bring up what's happened, or if I'm not having a dip in the roller coaster, he NEVER brings it up on his own.

So my question. If your BS isn't triggering or in a detectable bad mood, do you think about the A? If so, what do you think about?

I guess I'm getting tired of being the one to initiate any talk of his ONS. I mean, I don't want him to walk around all day crying, but gimme something! :/

TIA!


Me: Faithful Wife, Him: WH (stupid ONS)
DDay/Confession day: 8/29/09

Fear less, hope more; Whine less, breathe more; Talk less, say more; Hate less, love more; And all good things are yours.


Posts: 368 | Registered: Sep 2009
somanyyears
♂ Member
Member # 26970
Default  Posted: 7:38 PM, February 5th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage


my WW tends to react to my mood or frame of mind

she prefers not to talk about the A issues and hopes i dont ask another 'question'

i wonder too if i could go for a whole week with a smile on my face, if she would have a good week too ? not get sad, not get upset, not suddenly just start to cry, not think much about it at all
and want to keep it that way

....kind of saying to themselve's

im not going to rock the emotional boat by saying anything ..affair related

dont poke the hornets nest, so to speak

i guess we BS's can hardly blame them for taking this type of stance for avoiding what is for them painful and humiliating to discuss

i just wish i could last a week without feeling crappy and im not great at hiding my mood and pain from her

she sees it and gets down too and so it goes

it sure helps to read here
thanks SI

u r helping so many hurting souls

smy


trust no other human- love only your pets
She isn't and never was who I thought..I can't believe who I married and what she did to us.
Me 66
Her 63
Married 41 yrs (together 47)
18 yr LTA with bf


Posts: 4018 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: the sad state of affairs
grace09
♀ Member
Member # 26808
Default  Posted: 7:51 PM, February 5th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

justbreath - I can tell you that I do think about it every single day. In fact, many, many times a day. I think about how stupid I was. I think about how much I hurt my BH. I beat myself up over it. But, I seldom bring it up. I'm ashamed of what I did and it is still hard to talk about after 6 months of R-ing. When BH seems to be doing ok, I just pray that he really is and that he's not holding too much in. I don't want to bring it up and tigger a downward dip. I know he thinks about it daily - in fact I don't think an hour goes by without it crossing his mind. It breaks my heart to know I've done that to him.


Me - FWW
Dday 7/09
MC began the week of D-Day, but not yet forgiven

Posts: 161 | Registered: Dec 2009
somanyyears
♂ Member
Member # 26970
Default  Posted: 9:01 AM, February 6th (Saturday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage


grace09

wow ..what you just posted
is exactly how i think my WW feels too.. kind of hoping and praying i can find peace of mind again

i think you 'took the words right out of her mouth' with your post

.. thanks for that..

smy


trust no other human- love only your pets
She isn't and never was who I thought..I can't believe who I married and what she did to us.
Me 66
Her 63
Married 41 yrs (together 47)
18 yr LTA with bf


Posts: 4018 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: the sad state of affairs
Skye
Member
Member # 325
Default  Posted: 9:44 AM, February 6th (Saturday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I just pray that he really is and that he's not holding too much in.

Gracie, I'm sure my husband is doing the same, but I'm not doing okay and I am holding it in. And in our situation, I believe because he didn't talk about things, he cheated. He is showing me the same behaviors he did while he was cheating.

He treats me wonderful. He "seems" fine and contented. Bt if he's worrying silently about me, he is in the same mindset of the cheater, imho.


Posts: 5586 | Registered: Jul 2002
grace09
♀ Member
Member # 26808
Default  Posted: 9:27 AM, February 8th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

smy - You are welcome. I hope you find peace again. If your WW feels the way I do, I pray you can find that peace with her.

Skye - please try not to hold it in. Communication is so critical and it's a 2 way street. We do talk about it weekly in MC and any other time he brings it up. I do see your point though. When I see signs that my BH is feeling down, I usually wait for him to say something. I know it's important that I initiate the conversation also. thanks for helping me to see that.


Me - FWW
Dday 7/09
MC began the week of D-Day, but not yet forgiven

Posts: 161 | Registered: Dec 2009
Just Crushed
♂ Member
Member # 24852
Default  Posted: 11:37 AM, February 8th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

When BH seems to be doing ok, I just pray that he really is and that he's not holding too much in. I don't want to bring it up and tigger a downward dip. I know he thinks about it daily - in fact I don't think an hour goes by without it crossing his mind.

Yes, most likely an hour does not go by w/o BH thinking about it.

I think my WW feels like this. Unfortunately, most BSs seem to dwell on it and put up a strong face for WS. WS feels things are OK so why rock the boat by working on A healing. However, IMO, when the WS is not proactive in addressing A, BS feels like they just don't get it and they just don't care. It's the silent killer.


BH
*details in Profile*

Posts: 843 | Registered: Jul 2009
grace09
♀ Member
Member # 26808
Default  Posted: 1:02 PM, February 8th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Justcrushed - Does your WW know you feel this way? If not you should let her know. Many WSs want to know what they need to do and are looking to the BS to help them figure that out.

In our case, we do address the A in MC and after my IC appointments every week. I also think i address the healing in other ways, without specifically bringing it up. Actions speak volumes and my BH acknowledges this.

Please share your needs with your WW. Don't let the silence be a killer!


Me - FWW
Dday 7/09
MC began the week of D-Day, but not yet forgiven

Posts: 161 | Registered: Dec 2009
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 1:05 PM, February 8th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

justbreathe -

If your BS isn't triggering or in a detectable bad mood, do you think about the A? If so, what do you think about?

My A is forever a part of who I am. It is something I cannot turn my back on or deny. And the impact of my A will remain forever as well.

As a FWS, we have to make a choice at some point. We can dwell in our past, hurting and regretting and wallowing in our own self pity. When we do that, it actually blocks us from being of any help to our BS. In fact, the feedback we get further erodes that choice when we hear about how we deserve no compassion because we brought that pain on ourselves.

Or, we can choose to accept our actions, take responsibility for them, and set about acting to both clean up the damage we have done and become the best person we are capable of being. We can learn from the past and understand it while not wallowing in it. We can accept it when others challenge us on it, but not focus so intently that it paralyzes us from moving forward in a better direction.

Not a day will go by that I won't pay a price for what I have done. My BW can never look at me the same way. Family and friends that know have to take me down several pegs from the person I thought I was. But for me to bring up the A proactively means I am focusing on the past destruction I created, and is taking away my focus from actively seeking to be the best FWH I can be for my BW.


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
MissesJai
♀ Member
Member # 24849
Default  Posted: 1:18 PM, February 8th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

just breathe ~
If your BS isn't triggering or in a detectable bad mood, do you think about the A? If so, what do you think about?

I don't necessarily think about the A itself, more so the pain, devastation, and damage I caused as a result of my choices. Because I often beat myself up more than necessary, that is always at the forefront of my mind. If my BH were in a bad mood, it's not detectable. If he were triggering, not detectable. Our MC said he was serene. Basically means straight faced about 95% of the time. Anyhow, I say that to let you know that my H's mood or triggering wouldn't be a reminder of anything because I've already beat him to it. I'll never forget what I've done and who I hurt..Never...


FWW - 40
Nobody can make you feel inferior without your consent...

Posts: 5525 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: So Cal.....
Just Crushed
♂ Member
Member # 24852
Default  Posted: 1:26 PM, February 8th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Grace...I appreciate your response:
Does your WW know you feel this way? If not you should let her know. Many WSs want to know what they need to do and are looking to the BS to help them figure that out.

I don't think my WW falls in the above catagory. I have asked my WW many, many times why she hasn't been proactive in helping us R. She has been resistant to read books, go to MC (she has gone, but dreads it), display affection to me, etc. I am the only one to put this type of effort in.

I'm just in the position of having an unapoligetic and unremorseful WW. We just play house. I come home and kiss her (not too affectionately), play w/ my kids, have a glass of wine (or 3), watch tube or read, and go to sleep.

Just like nothing ever happened.

Yes, I know it's sad. I will not live my life like this forever and will make a decision at some point. I'm just not there yet and I keep hoping that she will change.

She is doing things to help herself (dieting, working out, etc.). I hope at some point she becomes healthy enough to help us in R. We'll see.

She has, after a little arm twisting, agreed to read "Not Just Friends". Again, we'll see.

She knows that remorse is a key ingredient for me to heal...and she just can't do that. She knows that I want her to be proactive in R...and she just can't do that either.

[This message edited by Just Crushed at 1:26 PM, February 8th (Monday)]


BH
*details in Profile*

Posts: 843 | Registered: Jul 2009
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 2:09 PM, February 8th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

just crushed -

She has been resistant to read books, go to MC (she has gone, but dreads it), display affection to me, etc.

When we first hit D-Day, there was one thing above all else that drove me to do the things you want from your WW. Consequences. Clear, concise and certain.

I had a choice. Do these things to move forward with R or my BW was filing for a D. And she has never been one to make idle threats. It would happen.

I was to set up the conversation with our minister. I was to find the counselor. I was to read "After the Affair" and have conversations with her as we read each chapter. She was patient enough to allow for me to take a bit longer to read, but not so much that weeks would roll by without any progress.

As long as you allow a foggy WS to remain unaccountable for their actions, many will not take the actions you need your WW to take.

She is doing things to help herself (dieting, working out, etc.). I hope at some point she becomes healthy enough to help us in R. We'll see.

I don't see these things as the things that will help R. She needs to work in IC to determine why she had her A and how to fix what is broken within herself.

She can't get to remorse until she can reach accountability for her actions. And she can't reach accountability until there are direct consequences for her not figuring herself out.


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
Just Crushed
♂ Member
Member # 24852
Default  Posted: 5:11 PM, February 8th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks LC.

You're probably right on the consequences. I guess I just want WW to do these things of free will. The last thing I want is for my WW to appease me by meeting my "demands" under duress. I mean, how geniune would that be?

WW did agree to IC, but since has back out stating that we don't have the money for it. Things are in the red for us financially ATM, but IDK how they're going to turn around unless our healing progresses and I can function at a higher level.

Thanks for you input.


BH
*details in Profile*

Posts: 843 | Registered: Jul 2009
Razor
♂ Member
Member # 16345
Default  Posted: 5:41 PM, February 8th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I am not sure where to post this question. If some one can think of a better place let me know.

We all talk about the slippery slope. It seems to me the more slippery slope is that around a EA.

For example you could ask when does a PA start? It has a definite start that is clear. A kiss or sex IMHO marks the beginning of a PA. But a EA is more difficult to say when it starts. So thats why I think the slope is more slippery.

My question is. What marks the beginning of a EA? Saying *I love you*? That would be a clear point. But what if it is the sharing of intimate secrets? There is a gradient there as far as the level of intimate secrets go.

I am casual friends with allot of women. Some I have known longer than me WW. Some know quite allot about me. Some I make jokes about sex with. But there is no emotional bond between us. I can not speak with them for years some times and never miss them.

So what marks the boundary for a EA? Where does a friendship cross the line? Is there even a clear boundary?


Forgive and forget = Relive and regret.


Posts: 3084 | Registered: Sep 2007
Fallen
♀ Member
Member # 4313
Default  Posted: 5:59 PM, February 8th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

When you say things to the other person that you would not say in front of your spouse, I think you're sliding down that slope.

You may think that there's no emotional bond between you and your friends, but I'd be willing to bet they don't see it that way. If there's no emotional bond, why bother maintaining the friendship? The very nature of FRIENDSHIP is that it's an emotional bond with someone. What makes it something other than "just friends" is when you start hiding what you're doing, when you rationalize it and when you behave in ways you wouldn't OPENLY behave with your spouse around. Even then, it can be extremely disrespectful.

Prior to the A, I was a social butterfly type- very extroverted... jokey and flirty with everyone. That need for validation came from my low self worth.

For me there's a very clear boundary. Any friendships I have with men are friends of our marriage. I do not flirt with them nor do I not make sexual jokes or comments. I always think about how my behavior around those friends would make my husband feel, and that is how I choose my actions.


You can't heal what you won't feel.

"There would be no grand absolution, only forgiveness meted out in these precious sips. It would well up from his heart in spoonfuls, and he would feed it to me. And it would be enough."


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