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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: BS Questions for WS"s III
crushed again
♀ Member
Member # 26138
Default  Posted: 7:02 PM, February 8th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Just Crushed
Said: You're probably right on the consequences. I guess I just want WW to do these things of free will. The last thing I want is for my WW to appease me by meeting my "demands" under duress. I mean, how geniune would that be?

That's exactly how I feel about my WH!! He agreed to see a MC but we only went once and that was because I made it clear with no 'effort' he was OUT. So if I keep saying "do this or..." really how much of that being done is with feeling or just a robotic response because WH DOES not want to get a D or leave the home.


"Don't you worry your pretty little mind because people throw rocks at things that shine!"
~I guess living in limbo is my "new normal"- stinks!~

Posts: 713 | Registered: Nov 2009 | From: Dreaming of a far better place!
Just Crushed
♂ Member
Member # 24852
Default  Posted: 7:43 PM, February 8th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I read your Story CA. I very much identified w/ following quote:
Time for him to man up because every day I lose more and more feeling for him. He's made me into something I've never wanted to become- an emotionless zombie...


BH
*details in Profile*

Posts: 843 | Registered: Jul 2009
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 8:28 PM, February 8th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Razor -

So what marks the boundary for a EA? Where does a friendship cross the line? Is there even a clear boundary?

I think here is a fine place for this question. For me, I'm in line with Fallen. The boundary is when you keep your first secret from your BS. The challenge is that as you are traveling the slippery slope, you don't see the boundary until you've already busted through it and put a few miles behind you.

So you start making inappropriate remarks about someone that you don't tell your BS. Well, we were just flirting and it made the OP feel good. No harm there. Oh, now we're IM'ing during the day and talking about our fantasies. Hey, just telling stories right? Hmmm, progressed to phone sex? Well, we didn't have "real" sex - just made each other happy over a phone line.

And all during this time, you've let "feelings" - at least those triggered by whatever it is that the OP is filling a gap for you on - build up. You start looking for justifications for continuing the secret, so you dig up "problems" in your M to make it make sense. Ultimately, when you have created enough problems, you attempt to justify making it a PA. And so on. And so on.

So the real boundary was broken with the first secret of the inappropriate remark made to the OP that wasn't shared with the BS. But the WS doesn't see that it was a boundary in the first place until all the damage is done and they have to look back and examine the road they traveled.

Just as the lies create such deep pain for the BS, they also represent the boundary first breached in an A of any kind.


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
Edie
♀ Member
Member # 26133
Default  Posted: 11:17 AM, February 9th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

A FWS writing to support a BS in Reconcilation regarding her mind movies about the A oral sex, said that her H, as a WS, would also be having horrible mind movies and triggers but that he needed to put his to one side in order to help her with hers.

I am now very curious about these WS mind movies. I have seen FWS s such as Kwills talk about how long it took her to get over OM ( or shall I interlocute, rather his role in her life). So that is one version, the missing one. My FWH 'says' he only remembers, if at all, everything now with huge distaste. He has excellent compartmentalisation 'skills' , so that may be the case. But I prefer my truth unsugarcoated, so if (my) WS is having mind movies, of any complexion, I would prefer to understand that and assimilate it into my world view. I don't think this is possessiveness on my part (there's been 17 Ows after all!!!); is anybody willing to share their experience of mind movies - horrible or otherwise - on the wayward side?


Maybe a long walk in the Hindu Kush would do it?
BW (me) 52
FWS 55
Together 29 years; 2 DDs 15 & 12
Dday Dec 08 (confessed) Feb 09 16 other OW confessed. OW17 tried her unedifying hardest until Aug 09. R'd.

Posts: 4960 | Registered: Nov 2009 | From: UK
Edie
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Member # 26133
Default  Posted: 11:29 AM, February 9th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Oops! Can't edit on a phone. Edie hastens to add that her interest in WS's triggers and mindmovies is not prurience but purely medicinal! i.e not asking for graphic details, more just trying understand....


Maybe a long walk in the Hindu Kush would do it?
BW (me) 52
FWS 55
Together 29 years; 2 DDs 15 & 12
Dday Dec 08 (confessed) Feb 09 16 other OW confessed. OW17 tried her unedifying hardest until Aug 09. R'd.

Posts: 4960 | Registered: Nov 2009 | From: UK
UnexpectedSong
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Member # 21761
Default  Posted: 11:45 AM, February 9th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Edie -

there's been 17 Ows after all

For someone like you, who is a decent, faithful human being, it would make no sense that someone would not remember details (or mind movies). Or if a person has had only one affair - yeah, I can see that person having a difficult time putting aside memories.

But, 17... All I can say is that I do remember the men I slept with when I was single, but it takes a lot of effort. I have to come up with the time frame, the circumstances, the location, etc. I don't go around remembering each one as a matter of course. I bet your husband is the same way.

After the second or third, they all blur together.

(Sorry!)

[This message edited by UnexpectedSong at 12:02 PM, February 9th (Tuesday)]


WW(SA)
"Feedback is the breakfast of champions." - Boris Becker

Posts: 6046 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: California
Edie
♀ Member
Member # 26133
Default  Posted: 12:16 PM, February 9th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks unexpected Song. I suppose I am referring to his most recent - midlife crisis - EA/PA: 5 months intense with a single woman, which feels like the same as a single A in its ' import' and affectivity.

[This message edited by Edie at 12:36 PM, February 9th (Tuesday)]


Maybe a long walk in the Hindu Kush would do it?
BW (me) 52
FWS 55
Together 29 years; 2 DDs 15 & 12
Dday Dec 08 (confessed) Feb 09 16 other OW confessed. OW17 tried her unedifying hardest until Aug 09. R'd.

Posts: 4960 | Registered: Nov 2009 | From: UK
MissesJai
♀ Member
Member # 24849
Default  Posted: 12:32 PM, February 9th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Edie ~
is anybody willing to share their experience of mind movies - horrible or otherwise - on the wayward side?

I've had a few. Not many, but a few. Primarily, they revolve around our sexual encounters and well, my reaction was a mixture of . The movies were brief, really brief and all I could do was think to myself, "My God MJ...." I would shut my eyes and pray the images away. I would feel awful for a while after, but eventually, I got past them...I don't have them as much anymore.. In fact, I can't even remember the last time I had one....It's been that long....


FWW - 40
Nobody can make you feel inferior without your consent...

Posts: 5528 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: So Cal.....
srb1608
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Member # 19477
Default  Posted: 1:53 PM, February 9th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

misses - My H says sort of the same. In looking back now he is disgusted when he thinks of his sexual experiences with last OW. There were about 20 meetings with her and in about 10 of those he couldnt stay erect (sorry TMI). He said it was never about her and an attraction to her physically, but just the excitement of doing what he shouldnt.

Does that sound plausible? And if so, why risk it all for someone you know you wouldnt leave for?


H says the only time he reflects now on it is when i ask VERY detailed questions.


BS- me 37
WS -him 37
Married 13 years

Posts: 2220 | Registered: May 2008
MissesJai
♀ Member
Member # 24849
Default  Posted: 2:01 PM, February 9th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Does that sound plausible?
That sounds very plausible and in fact, I know exactly how he feels. Now, I was sexually attracted to xOM, until he showed me I shouldn't be so my attraction switched to other things, including the thrill that comes from doing something you know is wrong.
And if so, why risk it all for someone you know you wouldn't leave for?
Because it's an addiction - simply put. Just like any addict who's been told that they stand to lose (fill in the blank) should they use again, yet what do they do? They use again. I watch that show Intervention religiously and often hear the addicts saying that they hate what they're doing but they just can't seem to stop. It's the high they're seeking - so if that means they have to hook, steal, etc., to get that high, so be it. The same can be said for us...


FWW - 40
Nobody can make you feel inferior without your consent...

Posts: 5528 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: So Cal.....
srb1608
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Member # 19477
Default  Posted: 2:18 PM, February 9th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks Misses - you have raised my next question. After 11.5 years of marriage my h started to cheat. He did with 3 woman before i found out. Found out when he left me and confessed to one of them. He left and didnt see the pain. I had been neglecting him sexually for years (not excuse for a i know) but he had addressed this over and over but i never fixed it. I thought he would never leave or hurt me. Well I begged him back and kissed his butt for about 20 months until i found out he had entered another A. This time i tried to kick him out and told him to leave told him i wanted a divorce. He claimed that this was his wake up call. Seeing me reject him, staying and seeing the pain he caused our family instead of running away like last time. He is in church, counseling, reading all the material he can to help and being everything he should be.

Is it possible that he can beat this and live right. His counselor has addressed the boundaries he must have in place to avoid temptation and inappropriate relationships. He is fighting to save this marriage now and i think he realizes i am not sticking around anymore after this. Is it possible he can once again be the man he was for 11.5 years?


BS- me 37
WS -him 37
Married 13 years

Posts: 2220 | Registered: May 2008
Elbell
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Member # 25814
Default  Posted: 2:23 PM, February 9th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Here is my question regarding sex with the OW (no graphics, no TMI).

Frankly, I am totally confused and I'm sure this rambling question will display that... sorry. I have asked FWH repeatedly if sex was "better" with OW and I've gotten many different confusing answers such as: "different" or "not able to compare". The worst comment FWH could make was that it was often "uncomfortable/stressful". But although he has lied and TTed about SO many, many things, he has never tried to console me by saying something like, "I like our lovemaking better than anything I did with her".... and I am very hung up on this right now.

After our confusing and unsatisfying talk yesterday, FWH said the MC would help clarify it. (Our MC had a 2 yr. A and then remarried his wife, so he knows the ropes). But I got no more understanding from him, and in fact the word "different" came up again, but without a good explanation.

FWH and I have always had a good-to-great sex life and he says he has always loved our sex life, no complaints. He has not wanted to change anything even post-A. He compares sex with OW to masturbation, so I asked if that didn't qualify it as being worse than what we have?! He said, "everything about the A was worse than what we have!" Which was another vague, general statement not directly addressing my question. On the other hand, he admitted that if he told me the sex was "horrible" with her I wouldn't believe it because he stayed with her for 5 mo.

I wasn't asking for "horrible", sex is sex and rarely horrible.... I get that. I was asking for some small consolation that she wasn't "better" than me, or that his love for me makes our love life better somehow. But all I get are things like, "you're you!" and the fallback words, "different" or "incomparable".

I sense there is something I'm missing that both FWH and MC are having a hard time verbalizing. Since I don't know what I'm missing, I can't convey it to them, either. Does any WS out there have an insight from your own experience that might shed some light? Thank you so much for being willing to talk about this.

Edited to say that I got my question answered finally by FWH... he was so busy trying to avoid more specific "sex talk" (we have both agreed I don't need/want details) that he didn't get how simple my question was. I feel affirmed and better today...

[This message edited by Elbell at 8:43 AM, February 10th (Wednesday)]


I will go down with this ship... Dido
BS-me,39 WS-him,41 (5 mo. EA/PA) M-18yrs & 3 kiddos.
Final DDay; October 17, 2009

Posts: 789 | Registered: Oct 2009
Edie
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Member # 26133
Default  Posted: 2:44 PM, February 9th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

In fact, I can't even remember the last time I had one....It's been that long....

Thanks, MJ. That seems to be totally in accord with FWH's feelings and memories. I guess I was just wondering about the possibility of a trigger invoking a pleasant briefly escapist fantasy. It sounds like too much is attached to the memories to allow such a fantasy to be in any way enjoyable.


Maybe a long walk in the Hindu Kush would do it?
BW (me) 52
FWS 55
Together 29 years; 2 DDs 15 & 12
Dday Dec 08 (confessed) Feb 09 16 other OW confessed. OW17 tried her unedifying hardest until Aug 09. R'd.

Posts: 4960 | Registered: Nov 2009 | From: UK
MissesJai
♀ Member
Member # 24849
Default  Posted: 3:31 PM, February 9th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

srb1608 ~
Is it possible that he can beat this and live right.
Yes, he can absolutely beat this and live right. If he wants it bad enough, he can do it.
His counselor has addressed the boundaries he must have in place to avoid temptation and inappropriate relationships.
He's in IC..good...This definitely helps..
Is it possible he can once again be the man he was for 11.5 years?

Will he be the man he was back then? Chances are, no he won't. But, he can reinvent himself and be better. Truth be told, you don't want the man you had for 11.5 years because really, he was broken, he just hid it well. Now, his faults are out in the open and he has to deal with them. Once he does, he'll be better for it and he'll be a better man for himself and for you....
Seems like he's ready and willing for the fight that's ahead of him...This is a good thing...


FWW - 40
Nobody can make you feel inferior without your consent...

Posts: 5528 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: So Cal.....
srb1608
♀ Member
Member # 19477
Default  Posted: 3:48 PM, February 9th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks misses! YOu are right in that he can be better i think. He is now a more genuine person with his entire family and not just me. Says he has wasted 3.5 years chasing the pleasures of the flesh and not caring about his family and God. He goes to see his family when he is off now. He is a more genuine parent and more considerate person. He has us registered for a 2 day seminar called "fireproofing your marriage." He is really doing it all now. Says he is tired of the double life and the looking over the shoulder and the burdens of hurting me and our daughter.

I guess time will tell. It is too soon now for me to believe for sure, but i guess no harm in waiting to see if it stays in the right direction. Guess i just dont trust my own instinct anymore.

Thank you so much for your responses. They were much needed today!


BS- me 37
WS -him 37
Married 13 years

Posts: 2220 | Registered: May 2008
MissesJai
♀ Member
Member # 24849
Default  Posted: 4:04 PM, February 9th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

srb1608~
you are most welcome . I'm glad he's making improvements in himself. It's a long road, with a lot of really HARD work, but it's worth it in the end. One of the best feelings in the world is knowing who you TRULY are....

I guess time will tell.
Yes, time will truly tell. Don't doubt your instincts but remember to keep everything in perspective... Just let him PROVE himself to you..He seems to be on the right track...


FWW - 40
Nobody can make you feel inferior without your consent...

Posts: 5528 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: So Cal.....
sadscrant
♀ Member
Member # 27459
Default  Posted: 5:29 PM, February 9th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Question for WS's please...My WH has admitted 3 EA with 3 now "former" friends. One of the EA has been going on for 4-5yrs. So once you start the first EA does it just become second nature to have others? I also have a hard time believing that a EA could last 4-5 years without progressing????


Me BS 38
Him WS 37
Separated 12/16/09
Divorced 6/11

Posts: 210 | Registered: Feb 2010
houseofcards09
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Member # 26400
Default  Posted: 9:08 PM, February 9th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Question here. Three and a half months post the initial discovery, almost three weeks past the next the second huge discovery (more affair partners from the past...9 total). We are in R, my wife is hitting IC twice a week. She's making progress, no more lies, trying to kick some long lasting habits (external validation, compartmentalization). However, it hasn't hit her...like really hit her what a horrible things she's done to us (and that includes herself). So out of character. She says she wishes more than anything to feel the true devastation of her actions, she wants to feel my pain but is unable to. Can someone help explain this? Will it hit? Might it not, if so...why not? I see it as a life changing event, the moment in her life where she realizes how destructive her lifestyle has been and with that, realizes that our marriage and her love for me and herself are too important to ever risk again.


Initial D-Day: 11/8/09
Subsequent D-Days: About 6 Big "Oh Shits", can't remember the exact dates

Posts: 59 | Registered: Dec 2009
MissesJai
♀ Member
Member # 24849
Default  Posted: 10:24 PM, February 9th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

houseofcards09 ~
she wants to feel my pain but is unable to. Can someone help explain this? Will it hit?

I went thru this myself. I tried desperately to feel my H's pain and if I could have, I'd feel it for him just so he wouldn't have to. The reality is that only you can feel your pain. Only your WW can feel her pain. That said, it might take some time for her to "get it". Just like you have your own time line for healing, so does she and this includes the time it takes her to truly grasp the depths of her betrayal. Ideally, she'd get it right away. She'd understand what she's done, the pain she caused, and what she risked losing. But, that doesn't always happen. She's doing the right things. Seems to me that compartmentalization is the culprit here - give it and her time. With continued IC, she will face it and feel it....


FWW - 40
Nobody can make you feel inferior without your consent...

Posts: 5528 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: So Cal.....
houseofcards09
♂ Member
Member # 26400
Default  Posted: 1:28 AM, February 10th (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

think i've discovered part of it...just found out tonight that she had been holding on to a few personal items of his including a dollar bill heart he made for her. She kept this stuff in her work desk and had a coworker trash it when I told her that her and I were going to make a weekend trip to her office. Guess she had no problem hanging on to this stuff despite lying through her teeth and pushing through IC. Dammit, when does this end?


Initial D-Day: 11/8/09
Subsequent D-Days: About 6 Big "Oh Shits", can't remember the exact dates

Posts: 59 | Registered: Dec 2009
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