That's exactly how I feel about my WH!! He agreed to see a MC but we only went once and that was because I made it clear with no 'effort' he was OUT. So if I keep saying "do this or..." really how much of that being done is with feeling or just a robotic response because WH DOES not want to get a D or leave the home.
Time for him to man up because every day I lose more and more feeling for him. He's made me into something I've never wanted to become- an emotionless zombie...
So what marks the boundary for a EA? Where does a friendship cross the line? Is there even a clear boundary?
I think here is a fine place for this question. For me, I'm in line with Fallen. The boundary is when you keep your first secret from your BS. The challenge is that as you are traveling the slippery slope, you don't see the boundary until you've already busted through it and put a few miles behind you.
So you start making inappropriate remarks about someone that you don't tell your BS. Well, we were just flirting and it made the OP feel good. No harm there. Oh, now we're IM'ing during the day and talking about our fantasies. Hey, just telling stories right? Hmmm, progressed to phone sex? Well, we didn't have "real" sex - just made each other happy over a phone line.
And all during this time, you've let "feelings" - at least those triggered by whatever it is that the OP is filling a gap for you on - build up. You start looking for justifications for continuing the secret, so you dig up "problems" in your M to make it make sense. Ultimately, when you have created enough problems, you attempt to justify making it a PA. And so on. And so on.
So the real boundary was broken with the first secret of the inappropriate remark made to the OP that wasn't shared with the BS. But the WS doesn't see that it was a boundary in the first place until all the damage is done and they have to look back and examine the road they traveled.
Just as the lies create such deep pain for the BS, they also represent the boundary first breached in an A of any kind.
I am now very curious about these WS mind movies. I have seen FWS s such as Kwills talk about how long it took her to get over OM ( or shall I interlocute, rather his role in her life). So that is one version, the missing one. My FWH 'says' he only remembers, if at all, everything now with huge distaste. He has excellent compartmentalisation 'skills' , so that may be the case. But I prefer my truth unsugarcoated, so if (my) WS is having mind movies, of any complexion, I would prefer to understand that and assimilate it into my world view. I don't think this is possessiveness on my part (there's been 17 Ows after all!!!); is anybody willing to share their experience of mind movies - horrible or otherwise - on the wayward side?
there's been 17 Ows after all
For someone like you, who is a decent, faithful human being, it would make no sense that someone would not remember details (or mind movies). Or if a person has had only one affair - yeah, I can see that person having a difficult time putting aside memories.
But, 17... All I can say is that I do remember the men I slept with when I was single, but it takes a lot of effort. I have to come up with the time frame, the circumstances, the location, etc. I don't go around remembering each one as a matter of course. I bet your husband is the same way.
After the second or third, they all blur together.
[This message edited by UnexpectedSong at 12:02 PM, February 9th (Tuesday)]
[This message edited by Edie at 12:36 PM, February 9th (Tuesday)]
is anybody willing to share their experience of mind movies - horrible or otherwise - on the wayward side?
Does that sound plausible? And if so, why risk it all for someone you know you wouldnt leave for?
H says the only time he reflects now on it is when i ask VERY detailed questions.
Does that sound plausible?
And if so, why risk it all for someone you know you wouldn't leave for?
Is it possible that he can beat this and live right. His counselor has addressed the boundaries he must have in place to avoid temptation and inappropriate relationships. He is fighting to save this marriage now and i think he realizes i am not sticking around anymore after this. Is it possible he can once again be the man he was for 11.5 years?
Frankly, I am totally confused and I'm sure this rambling question will display that... sorry. I have asked FWH repeatedly if sex was "better" with OW and I've gotten many different confusing answers such as: "different" or "not able to compare". The worst comment FWH could make was that it was often "uncomfortable/stressful". But although he has lied and TTed about SO many, many things, he has never tried to console me by saying something like, "I like our lovemaking better than anything I did with her".... and I am very hung up on this right now.
After our confusing and unsatisfying talk yesterday, FWH said the MC would help clarify it. (Our MC had a 2 yr. A and then remarried his wife, so he knows the ropes). But I got no more understanding from him, and in fact the word "different" came up again, but without a good explanation.
FWH and I have always had a good-to-great sex life and he says he has always loved our sex life, no complaints. He has not wanted to change anything even post-A. He compares sex with OW to masturbation, so I asked if that didn't qualify it as being worse than what we have?! He said, "everything about the A was worse than what we have!" Which was another vague, general statement not directly addressing my question. On the other hand, he admitted that if he told me the sex was "horrible" with her I wouldn't believe it because he stayed with her for 5 mo.
I wasn't asking for "horrible", sex is sex and rarely horrible.... I get that. I was asking for some small consolation that she wasn't "better" than me, or that his love for me makes our love life better somehow. But all I get are things like, "you're you!" and the fallback words, "different" or "incomparable".
I sense there is something I'm missing that both FWH and MC are having a hard time verbalizing. Since I don't know what I'm missing, I can't convey it to them, either. Does any WS out there have an insight from your own experience that might shed some light? Thank you so much for being willing to talk about this.
Edited to say that I got my question answered finally by FWH... he was so busy trying to avoid more specific "sex talk" (we have both agreed I don't need/want details) that he didn't get how simple my question was. I feel affirmed and better today...
[This message edited by Elbell at 8:43 AM, February 10th (Wednesday)]
In fact, I can't even remember the last time I had one....It's been that long....
Thanks, MJ. That seems to be totally in accord with FWH's feelings and memories. I guess I was just wondering about the possibility of a trigger invoking a pleasant briefly escapist fantasy. It sounds like too much is attached to the memories to allow such a fantasy to be in any way enjoyable.
Is it possible that he can beat this and live right.
His counselor has addressed the boundaries he must have in place to avoid temptation and inappropriate relationships.
Is it possible he can once again be the man he was for 11.5 years?
I guess time will tell. It is too soon now for me to believe for sure, but i guess no harm in waiting to see if it stays in the right direction. Guess i just dont trust my own instinct anymore.
Thank you so much for your responses. They were much needed today!
I guess time will tell.
she wants to feel my pain but is unable to. Can someone help explain this? Will it hit?