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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: Betrayed Men - Part 4
lingerdog
♂ Member
Member # 24459
Default  Posted: 7:29 AM, October 6th (Tuesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Because to me, using the word enough meant she knew what enough is/was and she was telling me it was not me.

Pay close attention to what is said to each of you.

-t2g

A little late but this resonated with me. I never noticed it before reading that statement, but now, I can remember when WW was getting her things from the house, and I offered to go to MC, she said it was too little too late, and that she didn't think I would change, or if I did, it wouldn't be enough, it wouldn't matter to her.

So I can see now that she probably already knew what she was wanting, what enough change was, and it was OM.

On another note, I racked my brain for a while, the Why? question, what did OM have that I didn't, and I finally figured it out.

The OM had one thing that I didn't, cable. That's it. He isn't better looking, smarter, wealthier, better house, better car, better able to provide for WW, none of those, but he had cable, and I guess that was all it took for her. Crazy bitch.


What lies behind us & what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us.
Oliver Wendell Holmes -Stolen from Uni's page

Posts: 8921 | Registered: Jun 2009 | From: Awesomeville
Razor
♂ Member
Member # 16345
Default  Posted: 10:28 AM, October 6th (Tuesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Cable? So now it all makes sense to me. Are we talking HBO and Showtime here? Its no wonder then.

OM house is closer to the beach than ours. So WW went for location, location, location.


Forgive and forget = Relive and regret.


Posts: 3084 | Registered: Sep 2007
lostcause111
♂ Member
Member # 19109
Default  Posted: 12:47 PM, October 6th (Tuesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I am glad at times we can laugh abut it.

OM in my case smelled had BO. maybe the natural stench attraction angle at play here LOL.


Posts: 934 | Registered: Apr 2008
Jimi40
♂ Member
Member # 10909
Default  Posted: 1:21 PM, October 6th (Tuesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

OM was a carny, I guess she could ride the rides for free.


You've got nowhere to fall, when your back's to the wall.

Posts: 5524 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: Niagara
64fleet
♂ Member
Member # 18710
Default  Posted: 1:48 PM, October 6th (Tuesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

damn-the 1st OM(that I know of-phone records only go back so far) stunk also, like BO & cheap cigs.

[This message edited by 64fleet at 3:25 PM, October 6th (Tuesday)]


time wounds all heels

Posts: 5359 | Registered: Mar 2008 | From: deliverance land
Razor
♂ Member
Member # 16345
Default  Posted: 4:57 PM, October 6th (Tuesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

When I first met OM I thought he was gay. He had the mannerisms and the way of talking. No BO. He probably smelled like flowers. And he dressed in all the latest trendy fashions. At the time I thought it was fine WW had a nice gay friend. Heck maybe they could shop together.

PC note:
Not to criticize any one. I dont care if people are gay or not. I dont care what goes on between 2 consenting adults. As long as my nose isnt rubbed in it.


Forgive and forget = Relive and regret.


Posts: 3084 | Registered: Sep 2007
shyguy
♂ Member
Member # 18281
Default  Posted: 5:06 PM, October 6th (Tuesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Razor that is %. My OM was gay so my ww told me. Dressed in trendy clothes etc. I think he was bi. Strange.


Love stinks yeah yeah(J. Geils)

Posts: 5866 | Registered: Feb 2008 | From: tulsa
Razor
♂ Member
Member # 16345
Default  Posted: 5:22 PM, October 6th (Tuesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

So what the heck did our WW see in these OM? Some kind of wired transgender transsexual attraction? Shoe shopping together? Flower arrangement? What the heck? And who are these women?

Kinda makes me wonder what they see in US. Maybe we should get more in touch with our feminine side.

Right about now I wish to trade WW for a good cable package.


Forgive and forget = Relive and regret.


Posts: 3084 | Registered: Sep 2007
wonderingbull
♂ Member
Member # 14833
Default  Posted: 10:33 AM, October 7th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Right about now I wish to trade WW for a good cable package.


I traded in my ex for a good Directv package along with a great place to live and freedom!....

WB


The secret of life is enjoying the passage of time...

James Taylor


Posts: 5893 | Registered: Jun 2007 | From: A better place
lingerdog
♂ Member
Member # 24459
Default  Posted: 11:42 AM, October 7th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I am glad at times we can laugh abut it.

There'll be times when me and the guys are sitting around talking, and they know what has been going on with me as far as my WW cheating, and something will be said, and it may not even pertain to her, but it will connect in me and I'll make a comment, and they'll give me a look along the lines of should I laugh at this, and I'll say "c'mon if I didn't laugh about this shit I'd go crazy."

Case in point, I fried some steaks for lunch and we started talking about other foods, and Bologna got mentioned. Well my WW wouldn't eat it because she said the meat cut her mouth. So I said something to the effect of wondering if she still has that problem with OM's meat.

But that's just a facet of my sense of humor. It can be dark in my mind, so I open the windows and shine some light on what I'm thinking. That's just how I deal with it.


What lies behind us & what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us.
Oliver Wendell Holmes -Stolen from Uni's page

Posts: 8921 | Registered: Jun 2009 | From: Awesomeville
thyme2go
♂ Member
Member # 12908
Default  Posted: 12:51 PM, October 7th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

and I'll say "c'mon if I didn't laugh about this shit I'd go crazy."

The very reason SI has the F&G forum. Humor with kindred spirits heals the soul.


-t2g

PS:

So I said something to the effect of wondering if she still has that problem with OM's meat.


BH - no longer 48
3 DD's - (27, 24 and 17)
Divorced on 8/6/09

Posts: 9144 | Registered: Dec 2006 | From: Eastern Washington
ForwardProgress?
♂ Member
Member # 24759
Default  Posted: 6:24 PM, October 7th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Did anyone "poison the well" of ambiguity?

I am having a hard time dealing with "do I know the whole truth?" I know enough of the details of the ONS and an ensuing EA, but there is always doubt about "were there others?" She flatly denies it, but I have trust problems.

I am considering telling her: "If there were others, then you are holding me in this marriage against my will. I would consider you a thief. I would respect you more for telling me the truth and dealing with the consequences, rather than let me continue this marriage, which is a fraud if there are any more."

I want her to know that I would hate her if she is holding back. That I would not want to be with her.

She has enough of a conscience that I know if this were the case, it would bother her forever. As it should be.

If it is not the case, she will primarily doubt that reconciliation is fully possible. I think she may give up unnecessarily and just say "you'll never trust me, no matter what, let's move on." I am NOT looking for that. She's a "walkaway wife" from her first husband and I am sure she could walk away from me, though we do have kids together.

I want her to know deep down what a fraud she is, if in fact there are others. This is the well I want to poison.

Still, I don't want to apply unnecessary guilt or angst. She's too fragile and might just "tap out."

Your thoughts are welcome. Did any of you guys have the desire to "poison the well" of ambiguity?


Posts: 242 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: SW, USA
aliveagain
♂ Member
Member # 25751
Default  Posted: 12:12 AM, October 8th (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I traded my WW for a beautiful woman with natural breasts. She just put out a new Jazz CD. We talk about everything, and I think I can actually trust again, or close to it. I am alive again.

I no longer miss my WW with the $4000.00 boob job I paid for. If the OM knew how tiny her real boobs were, or just how much gas she realy has, he would run.


Posts: 2595 | Registered: Oct 2009 | From: Canada, wild, wild west
Jimi40
♂ Member
Member # 10909
Default  Posted: 7:07 AM, October 8th (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

She just put out a new Jazz CD.

Would I know her music, AA?


You've got nowhere to fall, when your back's to the wall.

Posts: 5524 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: Niagara
JoePike
♂ Member
Member # 13207
Default  Posted: 7:39 AM, October 8th (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Anyone else's WW start reading romance novels before/during the A's? Xw never read a book our entire
M until she started reading those. How naive was I!

Not outright romance novels, although she read Birdsong by Sebastian Faulk and proclaimed it was the best book ever. Prior to d-day I probably would have liked it very much, as it portrays the life of a soldier in WW I, but now it's a different experience.

I read it last year just to see why she liked it, and realised that whilst in the midst of a long distance LTA, she was probably drawn very much to one of the major plot lines...when the main protagonist "rescues" an unhappily married woman.

She also loooved to watch Grey's Anatomy....

We can argue 'till the cows come home but the root cause of this subject discussed is attention related.

It now seems possible that enough is not enough in many cases.

Spot on. So spot on it's unbelievable.

At no point in my life with my xW was I closer and more attentive to her than in the run up to our wedding. Exactly during that period did she turn her EA into a PA.

She actually admitted post d-day that because I loved her SO much and the OM adored her she felt invincible.


"Do or do not. There is no Try" - Yoda.

"The term “mistake” infers a level of ignorance, innocence and naivety. And a lack of intent and planning." - Craig Harper


Posts: 3952 | Registered: Jan 2007
wincing_at_light
♂ Member
Member # 14393
Default  Posted: 8:24 AM, October 8th (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Spot on. So spot on it's unbelievable.

Exactly. This dynamic is one of the primary reasons for my stance that BS's should be wary about all of the "marriage problems" uncovered post D-day.

Look: Every marriage has problems. No one is perfect. We can all afford to work on ourselves and pay attention to what we're bringing to the marriage. We're all going to make mistakes and inadvertantly hurt our spouses.

Those aren't marriage problems. That's called being human and being in relationships.

The truth most BS's would do well to accept is that we brought enough to the marriage in the first place, and we're bringing enough to it now. We don't need to change to be enough or become enough. We always have been enough.

The source of the "marriage problems" that MUST BE ADDRESSED is almost invariably the WS themselves, from whatever perspective you evaluate it: broken-ness, fabricated justifications, general unhappiness with their own life, feeling trapped and directionless, SAb issues, mental health issues, whatever.

Just be you. You're enough.


Machiavellian idiot savant

Posts: 6687 | Registered: Apr 2007 | From: Indiana
Razor
♂ Member
Member # 16345
Default  Posted: 9:22 AM, October 8th (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Did anyone "poison the well" of ambiguity?
I am having a hard time dealing with "do I know the whole truth?" I know enough of the details of the ONS and an ensuing EA, but there is always doubt about "were there others?" She flatly denies it, but I have trust problems.

I am considering telling her: "If there were others, then you are holding me in this marriage against my will. I would consider you a thief. I would respect you more for telling me the truth and dealing with the consequences, rather than let me continue this marriage, which is a fraud if there are any more."

I want her to know that I would hate her if she is holding back. That I would not want to be with her.

She has enough of a conscience that I know if this were the case, it would bother her forever. As it should be.

If it is not the case, she will primarily doubt that reconciliation is fully possible. I think she may give up unnecessarily and just say "you'll never trust me, no matter what, let's move on." I am NOT looking for that. She's a "walkaway wife" from her first husband and I am sure she could walk away from me, though we do have kids together.

I want her to know deep down what a fraud she is, if in fact there are others. This is the well I want to poison.

Still, I don't want to apply unnecessary guilt or angst. She's too fragile and might just "tap out."

Your thoughts are welcome. Did any of you guys have the desire to "poison the well" of ambiguity?

Knowing the truth about what happened in the A is almost impossible. We will never know if the one we know of (or the many we know of) are the end of the story. Sure there could be more OM. And without proof WW can lie until the end of the earth and we are powerless to change that.

If you WW can lie she will. At least thats the way it is with my WW.

You ultimatums sound good to me. But I still would not trust the answer. Once trust is broken it never grows all the way back. If you WW tell you there were no others would you believe her? If the answer to this is NO. Then why ask the question?


Forgive and forget = Relive and regret.


Posts: 3084 | Registered: Sep 2007
wincing_at_light
♂ Member
Member # 14393
Default  Posted: 10:01 AM, October 8th (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

If you WW can lie she will. At least thats the way it is with my WW.

Yup. Sometimes I wonder if this impulse will ever go away, because the fact is that even at 3 years out and with no evidence to support it, my first assumption is invariably that my wife is lying if I have doubts.

I would trust my baseless suspicion over her word any day and on any question.

I think there's a threshold of lies that you have in any relationship that once so many have been told, the liar never again gets the benefit of the doubt, even if there is complete change, remorse, whatever.

Because the problem with people changing...is that they can keep changing. They can go back to being the liar/cheater/slut any time they choose to...and they clearly don't feel obligated to tell you they're going to do it in advance and let you decide if you still want to be part of the relationship.

Thus, at 3 years out, I assume that there are lies I believe to be true, truth that hasn't been and will never be told, and ongoing secrets that my wife is hiding from me because she fears what will happen if I discover the truth.

The difference is that I don't care what those things are anymore. They're her secrets and lies that are rotting her soul. That's not my weight to bear. Let her have them and rot with them.

They weren't ever mine to begin with.


Machiavellian idiot savant

Posts: 6687 | Registered: Apr 2007 | From: Indiana
64fleet
♂ Member
Member # 18710
Default  Posted: 10:06 AM, October 8th (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

the fact is that even at 3 years out and with no evidence to support it, my first assumption is invariably that my wife is lying if I have doubts.

I would trust my baseless suspicion over her word any day and on any question.

glad I am not the only one doing this. I mean, cmon, if you can't trust the person you pledged your life to, had kids with, & sleep next to, who can you trust?

Now I trust no one, I believe none of what I hear, & only half of what I see.


time wounds all heels

Posts: 5359 | Registered: Mar 2008 | From: deliverance land
Razor
♂ Member
Member # 16345
Default  Posted: 11:58 AM, October 8th (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Now I trust no one, I believe none of what I hear, & only half of what I see.

When dealing with proven liars and cheaters this is the only sensible thing to do.

Things will always be kept from us "for our own good" by our WW. Mine says all W do this as a way to "manage" there H. Her saying this kinda unnerved me. She lies about day to day things. Her shopping and buying things. Interactions with our kids and their wives. Really every thing. She controls what I know and how I react this way. Doing this makes it a certainty that she would lie about some thing more significant. Like seeing OM. Or being tempted by a new OM. Or any part of her LTA.

LTA make trusting even harder. Because you will never know every thing about what went on. You will always be in the dark. Places you go and things you do together with WW you will never know if they did these things to.
I just assume they did.

Because the problem with people changing...is that they can keep changing. They can go back to being the liar/cheater/slut any time they choose to..

Change is constant. It isnt that they "can" change but that they will "always" change. This can be good or bad.

This touches on a point tho. The temptation of an A will always be there for them. Because once they cross that line it becomes easier to cross it again. If they justify it once its easier to justify again. Lying and cheating become habits and so engrained in they personality.

"If a man is in the forest and there is no women around is he still wrong?" We joke about this but the point it makes is true. All good jokes are always painful and true. If our WW can justify an A once she can easily do it again. We are men and thusly always wrong. We supply ample "justification" for them.

It is always tempting to return to old haunts. Nostalgic memories are alway recalled in a fond light. With lying skills and temptation and justification returning to an A is a almost a certainty. Unless the WS does some serious work on herself and actively and constantly maintains strong boundaries.


Forgive and forget = Relive and regret.


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