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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: Betrayed Men - Part 4
shyguy
♂ Member
Member # 18281
Default  Posted: 5:13 PM, November 9th (Monday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My ex is SAB. She does not blame that for her OMs. She does not see as a problem. She refused to get help. Get "the Courage to Heal". It is a book written by SAB female survivors for female SAB survivors. They can get help.


Love stinks yeah yeah(J. Geils)

Posts: 5866 | Registered: Feb 2008 | From: tulsa
TwiceTorn
♂ Member
Member # 13895
Default  Posted: 10:33 PM, November 9th (Monday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

They can get help.

Only if they want too... Don't kid yourself, no person can make another person accept help unless they really want to. Thats the problem...

I refused to make another person do something against their will.. I moved on... Now Im Paying for it...


You've got to trust your instinct
And let go of regret
You've got to bet on yourself now star
'Cause that's your best bet~311 All mixed up


Posts: 3597 | Registered: Mar 2007 | From: Minnesota
OnceInALifetime
♂ Member
Member # 26023
Default  Posted: 1:48 PM, November 11th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm in the D process. CS in my state is meant to equalize incomes, to prevent parental alienation.

Do you guys buy into the notion that equalizing incomes is important to prevent parental alienation? I think up to a 50% discrepancy is not harmful, as long as the parent with less can provide comfortable shelter for the kids as well as all their basic needs. More than anything, kids need attention, love and basic comforts.

OK, I pulled 50% out of my butt. But imposing equality seems quite unfair. Alimony is meant to compensate for lost earnings power. I don't see that as a role for CS, but that's what it's turned into, except worse, because it doesn't go away if she remarries. Also, my CS obligation will go up if my earnings power increases. Basically, we're still joined financially at the hip, and there will be little incentive for me to earn more because she'd get a whopping large portion of it.

Yes, words like "comfortable" and "basic needs" mean different things to different people, so no matter what you say, it's hard to come up with hard numbers. But I hope you get the gist of what I'm saying.

I'm done posting on the D/S thread, at least for a while, because I'm under the impression that it's dominated by people with little empathy for those on the paying side of a D and the difficulties, emotional and otherwise, they go through. It's not a safe place for me to vent.

Edited for clarity

[This message edited by OnceInALifetime at 2:18 PM, November 11th (Wednesday)]


BH, now divorced

Posts: 3012 | Registered: Oct 2009
wincing_at_light
♂ Member
Member # 14393
Default  Posted: 2:00 PM, November 11th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

As an FYI, I paid CS for years for my oldest son, and my ex-wife and her husband had a considerably higher standard of living than I did (largely because my ex-wife was not a SAHM, while my wife was).

This wasn't a problem for me because CS was for my son and I didn't expect my ex-wife's new husband to take care of my son...though I know he did, purely out of his own generosity and his love for his wife.

But if we'd been talking alimony or exorbitant CS designed to equalize her income and mine, then I definitely would have had a problem with it.


Machiavellian idiot savant

Posts: 6687 | Registered: Apr 2007 | From: Indiana
thyme2go
♂ Member
Member # 12908
Default  Posted: 2:17 PM, November 11th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Do you guys buy into the notion that equalizing incomes is important to prevent parental alienation?

No -- not at all. My xw made the decision to file for D so IMHO she needs to live with the consequences... as must I.

For the record, I have youngest DD (13yo) with me full time. I let xw off the CS hook as she does have DD #2 (20yo - no longer covered by state guidelines) living with her while she attends college. Even after all I have been through I still play fair and square as my children to not need to pay the price of infidelity any more than they already have.

-t2g

[This message edited by thyme2go at 2:19 PM, November 11th (Wednesday)]


BH - no longer 48
3 DD's - (27, 24 and 17)
Divorced on 8/6/09

Posts: 9144 | Registered: Dec 2006 | From: Eastern Washington
OnceInALifetime
♂ Member
Member # 26023
Default  Posted: 2:23 PM, November 11th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

thyme2go,

I'm the one wanting the D. Does that change things, in your opinion?


BH, now divorced

Posts: 3012 | Registered: Oct 2009
thyme2go
♂ Member
Member # 12908
Default  Posted: 2:29 PM, November 11th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm the one wanting the D. Does that change things, in your opinion?

Nope - her A actions initiated the process. Many times there is a price to pay for infidelity. Many folks are simply not able to R.

-t2g


BH - no longer 48
3 DD's - (27, 24 and 17)
Divorced on 8/6/09

Posts: 9144 | Registered: Dec 2006 | From: Eastern Washington
OnceInALifetime
♂ Member
Member # 26023
Default  Posted: 3:02 PM, November 11th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks. And what if there were no infidelity? What if I decided to get divorced for some other reason?


BH, now divorced

Posts: 3012 | Registered: Oct 2009
64fleet
♂ Member
Member # 18710
Default  Posted: 5:11 PM, November 11th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

What if I decided to get divorced for some other reason?

there are no other reasons


time wounds all heels

Posts: 5359 | Registered: Mar 2008 | From: deliverance land
wincing_at_light
♂ Member
Member # 14393
Default  Posted: 5:26 PM, November 11th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Reminds me of the old joke:

You know why divorce is so expensive?

'Cuz it's so damned worth it.


Machiavellian idiot savant

Posts: 6687 | Registered: Apr 2007 | From: Indiana
OnceInALifetime
♂ Member
Member # 26023
Default  Posted: 6:40 PM, November 11th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

That's hilarious!

And that's what I'm counting on.


BH, now divorced

Posts: 3012 | Registered: Oct 2009
OnceInALifetime
♂ Member
Member # 26023
Default  Posted: 12:25 PM, November 12th (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

there are no other reasons

You know, I think you're pretty much right. It would take a sick amount of abuse (like the cheating she did) to make me want out and actually go through with a D.


BH, now divorced

Posts: 3012 | Registered: Oct 2009
64fleet
♂ Member
Member # 18710
Default  Posted: 12:33 PM, November 12th (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

adultery is also the only reason for divorce mentioned in the Bible.


time wounds all heels

Posts: 5359 | Registered: Mar 2008 | From: deliverance land
shyguy
♂ Member
Member # 18281
Default  Posted: 12:45 PM, November 12th (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Twice torn, your right. My ww did not want to get help. She turned in to a craiglist slut. Her refusal to get help was caused me to give up on her.


Love stinks yeah yeah(J. Geils)

Posts: 5866 | Registered: Feb 2008 | From: tulsa
OnceInALifetime
♂ Member
Member # 26023
Default  Posted: 1:01 PM, November 12th (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Of course the reasons for D shouldn't have any bearing on my original question, which was whether or not equalization of incomes is important to prevent parental alienation. Taking all blame aside, you guys still feel the same way?

Sorry to harp on this. I've expressed my opinion, but clearly I haven't quite sold myself on it. The folks who came up with these guidelines clearly feel differently than I do, and I wonder why they came to that conclusion.

As part of the settlement negotiations, I need to be firm in my beliefs, or things will not go well.

Thanks for your patience. This moral question has been eating me alive for weeks.


BH, now divorced

Posts: 3012 | Registered: Oct 2009
jjct
♂ Member
Member # 17484
Default  Posted: 7:31 PM, November 12th (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Equalization of income touches not the evil heart bound to alienate. Like a shoe pounding nails,
it'll do.

Posts: 6019 | Registered: Dec 2007 | From: texas
OnceInALifetime
♂ Member
Member # 26023
Default  Posted: 8:08 PM, November 12th (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Equalization of income touches not the evil heart bound to alienate. Like a shoe pounding nails, it'll do.

Is that Haiku?

My Translation: it can't prevent alienation in the case of a vindictive parent, but it's better than nothing.

I've heard it said that the kids themselves may start preferring to spend time with the parent that's got it better off, thus alienating the other parent.

I guess it depends on the kids personalities, the parent's personalities, and the size of the discrepancy. So maybe there's no good general answer.

Maybe it's time I just let it go. I think it was thyme2go who suggested I don't agree to more than what a court would rule, and if generosity strikes, I could be free to give more as I see fit.

Thanks, guys. I'm ready to move on now.


BH, now divorced

Posts: 3012 | Registered: Oct 2009
SourCherryDrops
♂ Member
Member # 25883
Default  Posted: 4:03 AM, November 13th (Friday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I think its kind of like using a sledgehammer to put in a nail...

I Understand its purpose, and the purpose i agree with, I just dont see that it provides any guarantee that it will happen.

If one partner decides to spend theri income on buying a nice house, gettin ggood quality furniture, sensible car etc and the other uses the same income on lots of gadgets, parties, fun activities...its still going to cause alienation.

essentially my point being if one parent deliberately sets out to alienate the other, then there is not a lot that can be done to stop it...

However if there is no intent to deliberately cause alienation then equalizing incomes can help ensure that it doens occur.

My problem lies with what was alluded to earlier...when situations change...if you re-marry If one partner marries a succesful buisness person and the other a simple menial labourer...then the concept of income equalisation goes out the door as does the idea that parental alieneation rests solely on income levels.



Me BS 37, Her STBX 34, 1*ONS, 1*EA 1*PA/EA, 2*PA
Heading for D after 9 mths of R

Posts: 1468 | Registered: Oct 2009 | From: Europe
lostcause111
♂ Member
Member # 19109
Default  Posted: 1:08 PM, November 13th (Friday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I love my daughter hence my heavy fight for R but I see D.

IMHO do not assume you will lose custody crap fight for at least 50/50 CS will not be as bad and not only that you will have much more control of how money is spent on your children.


Posts: 934 | Registered: Apr 2008
shyguy
♂ Member
Member # 18281
Default  Posted: 1:19 PM, November 13th (Friday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Kids notice everything. Keep doing the right thing. Your kids may not appreciate it today. They will appreciate you and your efforts in the long run.


Love stinks yeah yeah(J. Geils)

Posts: 5866 | Registered: Feb 2008 | From: tulsa
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