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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: Betrayed Men - Part 4
OnceInALifetime
♂ Member
Member # 26023
Default  Posted: 9:06 AM, March 26th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Our messages crossed, it seems.

My wife was having sex meetups with strangers from the internet. At least 12 OM in all, probably more like 20. It was depraved. Also, there was an extended affair with some other guy before all that. I was completely duped all this time, until by complete accident I found evidence on the computer.

Too much for me to come to terms with. Just a plain old deal breaker for me, whether or not she's capable of true repentance and remorse. I can forgive her, eventually, but I'm not going to stay married to her.

She has desperately wanted to stay M. So my battle has been with guilt and pity. But I'm finally beating the peacemaker out of me and really pushing for the D. Very sucky feeling, but what I must do for myself and for my children. And really for her. I'm physically repulsed by her now; I'd rather be castrated than have sex with her (there's been no sex since D-day over a year ago). This M cannot continue.

[This message edited by OnceInALifetime at 9:08 AM, March 26th (Friday)]


BH, now divorced

Posts: 3012 | Registered: Oct 2009
Ethelred
♂ Member
Member # 23332
Default  Posted: 9:08 AM, March 26th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I still have hope that WW will see the light, and am simultaneously stuck in the fog of "I can't believe she won't see the light" and "I can't believe she is throwing this away". Another nine months to a year to wait is no sweat, I have plenty I am keeping myself busy with right now. I am in individual counseling and am simultaneously trying to do deep thinking on myself and what I want my future life to look like. We still go to church as a family practically every week and sometimes I will sit there with the entire family and wonder if I really want to D.

I'm curious to see how she will react to D

1. Will she go catatonic
2. Will she try to open some kind of a crazy can of whup-ass on me by claiming untrue crazy shit
3. Will she break down and beg to reconcile

I'm kind of curious to find out. Possibly she will do a combo of all three, if that is possible.


Me: BH
Her: WW
Married: almost 20 years
D-Day: 2009 (cybersex for over 5 years, associated EAs); in the dark about PAs, no full disclosure.

Posts: 271 | Registered: Mar 2009
Ethelred
♂ Member
Member # 23332
Default  Posted: 9:11 AM, March 26th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Yes, even if you are not married to her at least she will see you to be a man by being willing to divorce over her actions. You have your dignity and integrity.


Me: BH
Her: WW
Married: almost 20 years
D-Day: 2009 (cybersex for over 5 years, associated EAs); in the dark about PAs, no full disclosure.

Posts: 271 | Registered: Mar 2009
Ethelred
♂ Member
Member # 23332
Default  Posted: 9:22 AM, March 26th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Onceinalifetime,

I understand if you didn't want to know, but I am curious about the profiles of these 12-20 men. Were they married? Were they younger? Older? Richer than you? Poorer? Better bodies? Exciting lifestyle? What kind of guys look for a woman like your WW? I just am trying to understand, I don't imagine I run into those guys, but maybe I see them every day and don't realize it.

I'm sure I can slip into some kind of a temptation given enough provocation, but I can't see myself intentionally seeking out a married woman on the internet on purpose. Maybe if I was locked in an elevator with Cindy Crawford for two days something would happen, but I can't see doing something purposefully and strategically.

As for the guys my own WW has been cybersexing with: if these guys are such studs, why are they up late masturbating on their webcams? Why aren't they out in the world with a real woman?


Me: BH
Her: WW
Married: almost 20 years
D-Day: 2009 (cybersex for over 5 years, associated EAs); in the dark about PAs, no full disclosure.

Posts: 271 | Registered: Mar 2009
OnceInALifetime
♂ Member
Member # 26023
Default  Posted: 9:38 AM, March 26th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I don't think anyone who stays with a WW loses integrity and dignity, so long as they demand big changes from their spouse. People respond very differently to being betrayed.

One thing I'm curious about are the immediate reactions from BHs on D-day, and how much those reactions may effect the WW's perspective and general affect. There may be no correlation at all.

Personally, I was shocked, angry as hell, absolutely livid. Yelled at her immediately that we were done. (Of course, it took a year for me to finally get the D ball rolling.) The most damning thing I said was that, deep down, I wasn't even surprised that she had it in her character to do this. Railed into her about all the times she'd throw me in the dog house, how I was always walking on eggshell, and how she was never satisfied about anything. I just railed into all the hypocrisy. I was a f*cking hurricane. It was actually rather cathartic for me; I was like one of those loser, picked on guys in the movies who in the end finally gets his just desserts.

She was a total wreck. Of course I got no more truth from her. All my further discoveries were from my own investigating, and they were incredibly shocking to me (on D-day #1 I had only discovered one affair).

Sometimes I read about very thoughtful, introspective responses from the BS on D-day. This may be a callous thing for me to say, and perhaps completely incorrect, but it seems (to me) like that sort of thoughtful response rarely illicits any real change from the WW. Am I full of sh*t?

Sorry, big tangent. Just something I was sort of wondering about...

Regarding all the OM, the moment I realized there was more than one OM, I lost all interest. I was no longer caught up with any of them. May they be unloved and buried in unmarked graves. I give them nothing. Not a thought.

But they do have a power over me in one respect: my opinion of humanity has taken a total nose dive. I'm still stunned to think that there are so many bottom feeders out there, so many slime balls with no sense of honor and decency. These guys knew my W was married; she advertised that fact.


BH, now divorced

Posts: 3012 | Registered: Oct 2009
Razor
♂ Member
Member # 16345
Default  Posted: 9:46 AM, March 26th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Ethelred.

Its ok to tell you kids some of the reason why you moved out. Take that feeling of guilt away from them. You dont have to go into detail (tell them that those are grown-up things). But you can say that their Mommy wanted you to move out and that it isnt your choice. Tell them that you want to be living with them more than any thing. And that none of this is they fault.

As to the D. We all reach our breaking point. We try and be the peacemaker (I think OnceInALifetime said that) to keep our family together. But some times we just cant do it.

Know you have done all you could to keep you family together and R with you WW. You have fought the good fight. But some times even when we fight the good fight we loose. And there is no shame in that. Actually if you D you dont want to look back and think that may be if you had tried harder it all could have been saved. So you have to do every thing you can and explore every path that might lead to R. Once all that is exhausted you can D and have a clear conscience.

Razor


Forgive and forget = Relive and regret.


Posts: 3086 | Registered: Sep 2007
OnceInALifetime
♂ Member
Member # 26023
Default  Posted: 9:49 AM, March 26th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

If you D you dont want to look back and think that may be if you had tried harder it all could have been saved. So you have to do every thing you can and explore every path that might lead to R. Once all that is exhausted you can D and have a clear conscience.

Not me. And my conscience is clear.

ETA: *finally* clear. I battled guilt and pity for a long time, but I never tried to R. Just slowly built up the will to D.

[This message edited by OnceInALifetime at 9:51 AM, March 26th (Friday)]


BH, now divorced

Posts: 3012 | Registered: Oct 2009
Just Crushed
♂ Member
Member # 24852
Default  Posted: 3:18 PM, March 26th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Once...I'm glad you don't feel guilt and pitty anymore. TBH...I don't know how anyone can recover from your WWs degree of infidelity.

Sometimes I read about very thoughtful, introspective responses from the BS on D-day. This may be a callous thing for me to say, and perhaps completely incorrect, but it seems (to me) like that sort of thoughtful response rarely illicits any real change from the WW. Am I full of sh*t?
I don't think this is callous. I did both. I went from pulling the D card immediately and handing WW my ring...to trying to R with me doing everything...to, most recently, exploding on WW and asking for D again.

IMHO...being the nice guy after an A doesn't get you anywhere.


BH
*details in Profile*

Posts: 843 | Registered: Jul 2009
TwiceTorn
♂ Member
Member # 13895
Default  Posted: 4:00 PM, March 26th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

OnceInALifetime, I can totally see where your coming from, my XWW followed a very similar path you STBXWW did. R simply isn't an option since so much damage has been done. If she was like my XWW she felt she had to do it, and had already justified it in her own mind.

I'm not gunna tell my son till he's and adult, and asks me why his mom and I broke up. Its not because I want to cover up my XWW's multiple A's just thats something for an adult to process. Who wants to hear that their mother is a panty dropping whore, that would spread her legs for anyone that paid a whisper of attention to her.

I don't think there is any type of response that suddenly changes a WS to own their own shit. Thats something they have to do on their own for themselves. 3 years after DDay for me, Divorced and all, my XWW still is the mindset that she had to do because of our M, and me.


You've got to trust your instinct
And let go of regret
You've got to bet on yourself now star
'Cause that's your best bet~311 All mixed up


Posts: 3597 | Registered: Mar 2007 | From: Minnesota
Just Crushed
♂ Member
Member # 24852
Angry  Posted: 5:35 PM, March 26th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

For those of you in the Rage Stage, I give you Linkin Park...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBnJnXq4YQ8

I'm done for the weekend...cyas on the other side


BH
*details in Profile*

Posts: 843 | Registered: Jul 2009
wonderingbull
♂ Member
Member # 14833
Default  Posted: 2:35 PM, March 27th (Saturday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I really believe that setting the bar at the height of the WW's on SI with their remorse and the willingness to do the hard work needed to heal their BH's and save their M's is rather unrealistic....

After all, look at the difference in the shear numbers of BS's vs WS's on SI.... I can't believe that most WS's even comprehend the magnitude of their actions unless they come to a place like SI and work hard to truly understand it...

The WW's and WH's here on SI are an exemplary example of what should be but unfortunately they are the exception rather than the rule...

WB


The secret of life is enjoying the passage of time...

James Taylor


Posts: 5893 | Registered: Jun 2007 | From: A better place
wifehad5
♂ Moderator
Member # 15162
Default  Posted: 10:54 AM, March 29th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

The WW's and WH's here on SI are an exemplary example of what should be but unfortunately they are the exception rather than the rule...

This is a very true statement WB. If they're not being honest, and owning their shit, they get called on pretty quickly. If they're not all in, they're not going to hang around too long.

That being said, I think it's really important not to expect less or settle for less just because the bar is really high. The WS' on SI are proof that the bar is reachable with work and determination.


FBH - 42
FWW - 43 (BrokenRoad)
2 kids 7&12

The people you do your life with shape the life you live


Posts: 35359 | Registered: Jun 2007 | From: Michigan
hurts
♂ Member
Member # 9444
Default  Posted: 11:30 AM, March 29th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I agree that it is a workable and rerachable expectation, but then it is our expectation.

I think that much of my problem is that I set that bar based on what i read here and what I have found among our great WS's here. It is what I wanted, but it is not something my W could meet, due to her own issues. We have had to deal with those FOO issues that just don't follow any kind of rules. I think it may be a goal, but hard to reach. I get, as do so many guys here that it is such a tough road.

When I work with the youth I tell them all the time to set your goals as high as you want. Nothing standing in the way, then find a way to meet them. Reality may cause you to reduce some of them, but keep it as a goal and understand it will take time to reach. A phrase I use is to aim for the clouds and then be not afraid of the treetops.

Basicly I agree that setting the bar high is important, but we have to be prepared for a long haul and some disappointment if both parties are not fully on board.

After these years, I am struggling so hard, and I find that some of it is because I failed to accept the reality of her change must be just that, hers. I can encourage and have hope, but she is the one who has to make the trip. And I am not in her shoes nor can I fully appreciate the depths of her fears and her demons.

I have watch several of our couragious WS fight there demons, and it has bled them hard. As we know, not all can do that, and I have learned that it doesn't denigrate them, it is their path. If we are to win or correlate the goals, we must learn to find a different converging path.

That is a huge part of my dilemma these days, I have lost my compass, and I feel like a blind man in a round room looking for a corner to rest in.


Sometimes I lie awake at night, and I ask, "Where have I gone wrong?"
Then a voice says to me, "This is going to take more than one night."
--- Charles M. Schulz
SO if I check my pulse, and it is not there, do I get the day off?

Posts: 8381 | Registered: Jan 2006 | From: At Home
wifehad5
♂ Moderator
Member # 15162
Default  Posted: 1:29 PM, March 29th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Basicly I agree that setting the bar high is important, but we have to be prepared for a long haul and some disappointment if both parties are not fully on board.

In a case like this, I see two options. You decide to lower the bar, or you decide that the bar is set at a level you're comfortable with, and walk away. Are there any options I'm not seeing?


FBH - 42
FWW - 43 (BrokenRoad)
2 kids 7&12

The people you do your life with shape the life you live


Posts: 35359 | Registered: Jun 2007 | From: Michigan
OnceInALifetime
♂ Member
Member # 26023
Default  Posted: 2:32 PM, March 29th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Are there any options I'm not seeing?

There's always the invisible divorce. But, as someone else put so well, I'd rather eat my intestines with a spoon.


BH, now divorced

Posts: 3012 | Registered: Oct 2009
hurts
♂ Member
Member # 9444
Default  Posted: 2:37 PM, March 29th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I don't know if a lower bar is ideal, what I think I mean is that having a high bar is good, always able to look up. But I know that some of these journeys take so much longer than desired. (thus, disappointment).

I agree that walking away is the other alternative, BUT...

Either way I can not find an easy choice, nor and easy path. And then there is always that stupid heart thing to deal with.

I would love to see some of the strength and resolve in my W. Yet I also know that sometimes life just doesn't allow us all of what we want.

I feel like I speak out of school here, mainly because I just don't know where to take so much of what has been dealt me. I do know that all of this is dynamic, and sometimes to know which path your really on, you need to check your watch.


Sometimes I lie awake at night, and I ask, "Where have I gone wrong?"
Then a voice says to me, "This is going to take more than one night."
--- Charles M. Schulz
SO if I check my pulse, and it is not there, do I get the day off?

Posts: 8381 | Registered: Jan 2006 | From: At Home
64fleet
♂ Member
Member # 18710
Default  Posted: 3:02 PM, March 29th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

wow, the lower the bar thing-I realized over the weekend that WW & I cannot have even the simplest of discussions w/o her being defensive, & turning everything back on me.

I realized that I can't put the bar low enough.


time wounds all heels

Posts: 5359 | Registered: Mar 2008 | From: deliverance land
hurts
♂ Member
Member # 9444
Default  Posted: 3:21 PM, March 29th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Yeah, I can hear you. I went through that also. It laid me so very low. But she is now trying not to be so and it is apparent. Yet I find myself struggle to test the waters at times.

Thats the long haul/disappointment thing.

I want to keep the bar up, so that I can at least have hope for something. Like many guys here, I'm not leaving the kids and I do want to try and make it work.


Sometimes I lie awake at night, and I ask, "Where have I gone wrong?"
Then a voice says to me, "This is going to take more than one night."
--- Charles M. Schulz
SO if I check my pulse, and it is not there, do I get the day off?

Posts: 8381 | Registered: Jan 2006 | From: At Home
wonderingbull
♂ Member
Member # 14833
Default  Posted: 4:05 PM, March 29th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I never said lower the bar... I think a lot of WS's unrealistically want the bar to be the height where a small dog can step over it.... Thus, not too many consequences...

WB


The secret of life is enjoying the passage of time...

James Taylor


Posts: 5893 | Registered: Jun 2007 | From: A better place
Ready_to_run
♂ Member
Member # 20954
Default  Posted: 4:39 PM, March 29th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My WW wouldn't even set the bar high enough to go in the WS forum to see what a truely remorseful person looked like. She just couldn't do it. Would rather D than move the bar any higher than her ankles.

64, I know exactly what you are dealing with. My STBXWW and I couldn't discuss anything without her blowing up and turning everything back on me. Frustrating beyond words...and now I am left to try and fix myself after dealing with this for 15 years. I don't even know what a normal relationship looks like anymore.


BH
D-Day #1 5/2003
D-Day #2 5-25-08
D-Day #3 6-23-08
Divorced 9-17-10


Posts: 716 | Registered: Sep 2008
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