I was able to gather my thoughts this morning and wrote her a note that I need to she desire me... i need to know about the man she had a brief A with in late 1980's and I told her I fear she will leave me because OM is now getting D... and when was last contact with these men?
She didn't want, didn't like, cried over these... It was horrible and I feel horrible right now... no, let me say, it is worse then horrible.
[This message edited by trynhard at 7:43 AM, December 16th (Wednesday)]
making her feel so bad...this is both good and bad, good that you can have such compassion for her, bad because the brunt of compassion needs to be from her to you
allowing yourself to feel your grief....this is necessary for healing, and she is the perfect person to assist you in this
opening yourself up for rejection...scary process, especially for us
or is it another reason all together?
yes tryn you will find peace, when i cannot say, how i cannot say...but the first part is already in place...you are seeking it and doing what you can to achieve it..
He was in KISA mode, so that made it easy. This year I wanted him to do it because he managed those fuckfest sojourns with her a couple of times a year, which were far more complicated than having a holiday with me
have you ever sat down with him and explained how you feel about this, how you need him to do just this to step up and show you that he cares as much at the very least for you to do this....
i too wrestle with this one, the fact that he was able so easily to do the smallest she with the ow and not with me, like texting....and the big stuff too...like protecting me from anyone......it makes one wonder how they can claim that they love us, truly love us...you know love is a verb...and the fact that all the action that goes with that verb never took place for me, and that it even took place with the skank, the judge he claims a certain disdain for and of course the first one, the absolute love of his life...the one he now claims that there is no love there...miraculously that feeling of love is supposedly gone....he loved her longer and better then me and that love supposedly doesn't exist anymore....yeah right....i wish it were that simple....being on the end of wishing it was that easy for me to stop those feelings for him....afterall, it turns out that my thoughts of who he was was pure fantasy since he always was this person....
sorry ukgirl...went off on my own...bad bad week for me....1 year ago today this man bent ofver backwards to go to the skank....doing things. maneuvering his schedule and rushing to be with this skank of a woman....i am almost at that lovely one year mark of d-day too....and then of course i am supposed to be cheery for xmas...when i could care less....
Tryn. That last image is pretty powerful and kind of scary. I know what you mean about how horrible you feel. It is so odd that when you see your betrayer having so much pain, that you, the betrayed, can feel so bad for her. It is not logical at all. I have been there. Your right, it is worse than horrible. Did you say that you quit taking some meds a few days ago? I know nothing about those meds, but could this be adding to your bad feelings?
miracle. I know that with your anniversary & the holidays approaching, times are tough. Sorry.
Well it was not a affair, but my W betrayed me pretty big time. This weekend she told me she had used some of our money to help a close relative who was in trouble. She did that four months ago and just now decided to tell me. It was over $3000. I will most likley not ever see that money again. That is not the point.
This has set me back years. It is to me a complete betrayal of my trust again. Sneaking around behind my back. I thought she knew better. I am fucking pissed.
We spent the whole weekend with me mad and her alternating between crying and remorse, mad at me for being so mad, and her asking my permission before she did anything. Even the most simple of things.
She does know she screwed up big time. She does not know why she did this. Years ago I said to my self, "If she ever betrays me again, I'm done." I was of course thinking in terms of another A. Damn, what to do now?
Part 2. When I was explaining to her how this was almost like her A in terms of pissing me off, I pointed out that she should answer some questions I had concerning the affairs. Of course she said that it was all in the past, she was sorry, she wished she could change it, she was wrong, and talking about it would do no good.
I said that she had never even told me why she did it. She says she does not know why. I called bullshit. She says it is hard to explain. Then she says that I was not fulfilling her needs, and that sometimes someone can say stuff that you need to hear and treat you in a way that makes you feel better. (I know, the same shit is in the healing library and is pretty standard stuff). I believe I answered that with "you do realize that he was only saying and doing that stuff in order to get into your pants? He did not give a shit about you." She says yes you are right.
I told her that I was really hurt about being second choice. Now that really surprised her. I do not think she ever looked at it that way. She even told me I was not second choice and backed that up by pointing out that she was here with me. Of course she had no answer when I pointed out that she walked out of the house to go see him while I was right there. Him #1, me #2. The conversation ended there. And arn't you all glad about that?
Damn, there is a lot of he said, she said shit in that story. Sorry about that. I don't have anyone else to talk to.
Dip… yes I started taking them. I targeted spring ’10 to stop taking them… but heck, I have no idea where my feelings will be then.. Sorry your wife wasn't open with you.
We’ll see what tonight brings.
The "lion" knocked out of me
[This message edited by trynhard at 1:09 PM, December 16th (Wednesday)]
What I thought was a brief affair wasn't. Brief, that is.
He spent four years of our life together lying to me. He broke off the affair after two years of seeing her. Since she lived in Canada and then Sweden the contact wasn't constant, but it was enough for her to get pregnant. Their baby is now 18 months old.
The things that I find really enraging:
1) He never told her that he was married. (She had to find out from his sister!) Now, I can't even focus my anger on her, because she's a victim too!
2) During this time we had little to no sex. He was too tired, too stressed, too something... Too tired for sex with me, but apparantly not with her. THAT hurts.
3) FOUR YEARS OF LYING.
I just can't wrap my head around that.
You have come to the right place. Sorry you have to be here. Lately there are several nice ladies, a pretty nice guy and a old dip here to give confort and to listen to you vent.
If you have not already done so, go to the healing library in the yellow box upper left corner of this page. There is much useful information there.
It seems things go in bursts here in this thread. Sometimes it is pretty slow. I would guess the holidays might get in the way now.
I can see why you are enraged about his behavior. This stuff just does not make any sense. As a BS it sometimes seems impossible to even imagine how a WS can act as they do.
I'm pretty angery at my W right now so I will not try to give you any more advice. I don't want to ramble on and not make any sense. Be paitent. Some of the nice girls here will be along to help you out. A few can get pretty chatty, but they are all very smart.
Another good image. I hope the meds kick in and help you out. You are right, we have no idea where are feelings will be in spring '10.
I hope that things go well tonite for you. As for me, If I was not so old I think I might be tempted to go out barhopping and flirt with the chicks. My W probably would not care. She knows it would be like a dog chasing a car.
Tryn’, I’m so sorry that one of our Tribe is having one of those twisting, gut wrenching moments. It’ll pass. You will be at peace because you will find it from within. Be at peace with yourself knowing you are a warm, loving and generous person. You give and you don’t need to take and stick post-it notes on yourself saying how “wonderful” you are from some other person outside the marriage – that’s delusional. We live in the here and now, not the fantasy be like our WS’s did.
Being desired is part of our healing process. To have unknowingly rejected in favour of the AP (as we see it) is a massive blow to the self esteem and if our FWS is unable to do this, the reconciliation is unlikely to succeed. She has to do this for you. You need to talk about this and maybe have counselling targeted at your sexual relationship. Could she be having a problem due to the affair(s)? That she feels she was used and that is the root cause? You need to break this open and find out.
The fact OM is getting D’d is irrelevant. Most likely she is the last person he would call. If he was D’ing because he wanted to be with her, you would have known by now. He’s out of the picture and not of any concern to you. All you can do is ask when she was last in contact. If she lies, that’s her choice and there’s nothing you can do about that. But your wife has been very consistent. She turned her back and came flying back as soon as you found out. She was horrified and frightened. She is remorseful and she does regret what she did in the past. From all your posts, I really don’t think she wants to go anywhere near that world of make believe again.
Hoping today is a better one for you. (((((tryn)))))
you know love is a verb...
Plan a way of getting through your dday antiversary. Do something for yourself. I found it easier to just not be with FWH.
Dipstick – what on earth made her think you wouldn’t see the money was gone? We are not talking about a few dollars, or even a few hundred. What ridiculous behaviour. Maybe she thought she would get the money back before you found out? Or was it actually a gift? You are right to be mad about this and yes, it is betrayal. She was deliberately keeping something from you and betraying the trust you put in her. It’s bound to make you question her loyalties and how she sees you. And so we come to the part of the reason for the affair. The two are connected in the sense of underhand behaviour and it highlights this flaw in her character (jmho).
"you do realize that he was only saying and doing that stuff in order to get into your pants? He did not give a shit about you."
Hi ej, nice to “see” you! All good vibes and healing coming your way hon. I’ll think of you Monday.
Remember Tribe, LTA = LTR. Long term recovery. Hang in there.
Have a nice day folks...
Re your wife's reaction to your distress - not cool.
How are you supposed to open up to her about your feelings if she is going to say things like she thinks she should set you free?
You needed reasurance and affirmation, not a veiled threat (which is how I saw it)and you dealing with her distress.
Anyway, I am glad you have made up, but still..she needs to get out of that habit and woman up to you when you need her, IMHO.
I can just imagine how devastated you must be.
Would you W be willing to explore her issues in IC? You are right, "I dont know" is just not good enough.
Can I disagree with you on one thing though. You did something that I am prob the worst offender of:
IMO, you should not have brought up the questions re the A into this at this time.That is a separate issue worthy of its own time, and in mixing the both, I fear would result in neither getting the attention they deserve.
(i can just picture some of the oldies jaws dropping when I say this ).
So how are you going to move on from here? I know you both are licking your wounds in your corners (your dog anology tsk tsk!), but at some point you both would need to address it. Heres hoping that she too womans up and does the right thing, whatever that may be for you.
Between your dog and Tryn's lion, we seem to be starting a zoo in here.
The first dday just sucked bigtime. All I wanted to do is hide under the covers and sleep till the day is over. What do you plan to do?
I am glad your H was able to sort out the holiday. Heres hoping its going to be a peaceful joyful one for you!
Are you getting ready for the big snowfall tomorrow?
All the best with the LEEP procedure. Plenty of rest, you hear!
An OC does add another dimension of pain to the LTA. I am so sorry. There are some BSs who are also dealing with similar. Check out the OC thread in I can relate as well.
Mind what you love. Mind how you are loved.
kiki: welsome to our tribe, i agree with the others on what you have already been told, only need to add that you need to remember to take care of yourself too....eat, breathe and exercise if u have the inclination...
tryn: i forgot to tell you before that i am proud you are off the meds...be patient too with yourself, you may actually experience things a bit more acutely right now...
and she didn't reject you tryn she's there, and from what you have said prior she is doing more then she ever has...but anything worth having is alot of work, its a long process....and it is a process....
be careful when you find the wife...tread lightly, and try to wait til holidays are past, it really does add more pain, i know because i was there and still are...
dip: i disagree with lh2, don't usually though...i think this is the perfect opportunity for you to finally speak to her about everything, calmly and rationally though, and let her know how much pain you have always been in and how much you hid from her for her, she needs to know how much you put aside for her....how much pain you buried for her...
and listen up people when a ws thinks that its in the passt you have every right to tell them that until you have processed the whole thing the action may be in the past but the hurt is very much in the here and now and until its dealt with it will not disappear into the future....period..
ukgirl: he loved her for 30 years, she was there before me, and the only reason i exist is because her husband existed...30 years is really really long time....and reactions are actions...and not doing what one is supposed to do is also an action...there are always actions and reactions but they don't always mean love...and when almost every action and reaction is a negative ...well it just doesn't add up....so pfm also has and had history....and to add to his crap he added more women, more women that he did more for then he did for me...and does for me....the only thing i still feel he is good for is money...even though he fucked that up too, thankfully he made enough that it didn't affect me or my kids, although i didn't know how much we really had because he hid so much from me...
sending much mojo and prayers...keep us posted
good to see you posting here..
The weekend with my parents confirmed my twin bro is involved in some way with ex-gf from way back when. He saw her back in the summer and told my mum some cock and bull story about a chance meeting. I spoke to her sister and she reckoned it was a planned coincidence too. They have each others mobile numbers, so….. you get my drift. It was obvious from what he didn’t say. Besides, I was staying at the IL’s and going to my parents for the day. I turned up and bro was “shopping” at a crummy shopping outlet supposedly to get something for his wife. The town he lives in is extremely well known for its shops. So, when he got back he was extremely vague about the shops he had gone to. Mum had to prompt him, asking if he’d been into this shop or that one. I dunno. Then I asked straight out – had he seen her? He gave a sidelong look – No. I asked if he was gonna see her on the way home (a Tues morning, her H would be at work, her kids at school….) – No. And he went back to reading the paper. Rrriiiiiggghht. >>>sigh<<<< What can I do? Good job he lives so far away and has a job that doesn’t involve travel.
Hope you don’t mind. Just had to get it out there. Just sooooo depressing. My own brother.
and to add to his crap he added more women,
I see you beating yourself up through pfm and transferring it all as hate. It’s deep and it’s bitter. I’d rather you felt indifference towards him if you plan to separate at some convenient time in the future. That would be easier for you to live with, I imagine.
I have placed myself in a “safe” place. A kind of protective layer around my heart. I don’twear a ring and I make no promises. The future is as far as the diary dates. It suits me and, while I know deep down that I love him, I will not allow him to be so close to me again.
Sorry if I seem frank, allow me some slack - I'm on my second glass of wine. But it is 7.45pm here.
Re your brother, Ukg.
Cant you just thump him over his head or something?
It just really riles me up when people "indulge" in this when they have seen first hand the consequences of those poor choices. What do they think..that they are different? That theirs is special? That they are not hurting anyone?That they are just friends?
Sorry Ukg. I know how triggery this could be for you.
Re Dipstick - I didnt mean that he shouldnt talk to his W about the A; I merely thought the timing was off ,for by doing so they would lose focus on the presenting issue.
The issues are undoubtedly linked. I would question Mrs Dipstick's timing of this betrayal. Maybe I am looking too deep into this, but I wonder if the timing is significant in any way. I wonder if and why she felt the need to sabotage the hard work they both have done. I wonder if she is feeling bad about something and felt a need to be "punished" or to "punish", knowing that Dipstick would be so hurt and could be hurtful.
Maybe she wasnt even thinking of Dipstick and liked playing KISA to her relative.
Without knowing it, we sometimes behave in ways which suggest some deeper issue at play. We want to hurt/be punished/hate/be hurt/be hated or on the flip side, we want to love/be loved/want/be wanted etc.
And we act in a way where we know we would get this reaction and the counter reaction.
Ok too much thinking for this ol gal.
A wife pleasing her man makes him feel special, powerful, desired, needed, prideful... she makes him feel like a lion. He looks on proudly. She does the right things to appear to be pleasing him, but look at her face. It seems disgusted. After such good fantasy, is she capable to desire and make me feel the lion again?
And the following....
I walked around a man, a man's man... a lion. Then DDay... a punch in my gut. It knocked the lion out of me. All my pride, my confidence, my boldness, my strenght, my fight, was gone. Left was someone who was weaker, scared and frightened.
This is my newest.. inspired by UKgirls post....While I coached our kids, she got her fix.
I call this... A Cheating Wife's Fix
I can think about these things today, and the sting is gone... I just need to get my Lion back.
and yes, I am Psycho right now...
[This message edited by trynhard at 3:18 PM, December 17th (Thursday)]
anyways...tryn:...you will get your lion back as you call it...we all have bumps in this arduous journey...so how has your wife been since you and she had that last conversation, has she shown you any compassion, empathy...and i disagree with you the sting is not gone....it may not have as much of a bite as it did, but it still bites...
lh2: i agree that there are some definite underlying issues, mrs dipstick though has never really dealt with what she has brought into the marriage and i think that this gives dipstick an opportunity to bring up all of his or should i say their unresolved issues....
and dipstick, i am so sorry that you feel this had brought you so far back in your recovery...
ukgirl: yay for mr uk....and yay for you for being able to appreciate it...not always easy to do...
and it sucks about your brother, maybe you should have a chit chat with that man and set him straight...
see you beating yourself up through pfm and transferring it all as hate. It’s deep and it’s bitter. I’d rather you felt indifference towards him if you plan to separate at some convenient time in the future. That would be easier for you to live with, I imagine.
not beating myself up as much as trying to accept it for what it really was, i need to digest it all, so that i may finally purge this all the way through...and yes i too wish i had indifference...it would make it so much easier, and i will get there eventually, whether or not everything around me will survive my bumps in the road is well another story, i've since broken a few things...i can get quite volatile, and i seem to get that way alot more often, it used to take so much, now almost nothing...correction any behavior that can be attributed to anything betrayal sets me off like a bomb...such as manchild being rude without apologizing tonite...i over=reacted and lost it again...i really need to get it together and under control....maybe i should take up drinking??? ...i will have to think about that one, will it be worth the calories and the hangovers....
btw....a very late happy hanakahh to all who celebrate it....i think i spelled it wrong...sorry....
And yes the "sting" is gone... I would now describe it as... maybe kind of like this for me now...
You need to get something major done... you are procrastinating, it is on your mind frequently and you just cannot seem to get motivated to do it. It is with you, needing and wanting it to get done. Your stomach some times feel wheezy or squeezed because you know you should have already finished it.
Iwant.. I am sorry your apple is not falling farther from the tree... You cannot control what the manchild thinks, does today at his age. But what you can do is tell him your feelings... and hope that he loves you enough to make good decisions... This is stuff I have learned in Retrouvaille. For example, Manchild, I am sorry I got angry at you last night. When you did that “rude thing he did”, I felt my temperature rise in my face because I question myself if you I am teaching you correctly. I question if you are going to be a good man, an honest man, a kind man. I cry inside for because I don’t like the thing you did nor things like that. I hurt maybe like if you were picked last in a pickup ball game or someone stole something from you locker. On a scale of 10, I am a 9 in horrible feelings. (always describe the feeling in many ways, Physical, on a scale, giving examples that person can relate to, never accusing, never threathing)
I bet you son has some deep feelings for his mother you don't even know... In no way do you want to hurt your mother... no way.
[This message edited by trynhard at 7:56 AM, December 18th (Friday)]
I need to focus on me now, to get my lion back. I have decided to only express my feelings in my art for the next few months and focus on getting to a newer, deeper level with my wife. You are always welcome to visit my flickr page.
This site has served me well. It has helped me get to get me to this point today. I have decided to not visit here for at least a month. I see the sadness of others and my emotions and feelings are transferred to me. I feel it is best for me to start to focus on all positive. It is time for me.
With great pain of the worst kind, acceptance has stuck. I have decided I will only think positive thoughts and live today, dealing with today problems and issues. I am not going to allow evil people like Tiger Woods stand in the way of my new relationship with my wife. If my wife cannot accept the way I love her today, and I cannot accept the way she loves me, then so be it. I will just focus on being a better, grow, be a more giving person to others, and at the same time, give my complete attention to my wife and family. This is a choice by me and only me.
I promise, if I can make it back to complete happiness, I will help other here. I wish I could help everyone on SI. The ideas, thoughts and feelings of all you here have helped me tremendously. I thank you all. I will post next month and let you all know how I am doing.