FairyF is FRENCH! la la... parlez-vous anglais ? All I can say about that poem is... Nope, we don't know the future, but we can shape it.
booger bear & E3.. may you only think positive thoughts today...
njgal480... He started yelling and carrying on about how I will never get over this I had the same thing said to me by my wife just back in December. And I agreed with her. To that point, I will never get over it. I accept it. My goal now is never to rub her nose in it again... the past. Live today... So after December, I wrote my wife a letter (Retrouvaille taught us that) saying I don't need to know anymore about your A's... but these things just pop in my head... and like I am learning to accept what has happen, I hope you can be loving to me when these things trigger me. Now is not the time to clam up. But it is important to communicate in the right way. Never accuse, be sarcastic, or use controlling words… Nobody like being controlled. Only tell each other your feelings and make the choice to love. Make the choice to want to be the person your spouse needs… while at the same time making sure you can be happy with what you need. This is not easy!
Porn is an interesting thing to me. Is it any worse than thinking you want to have sex with a hot chick? Is it any worse in video vs a pictures or in your brain? Is masturbating in your mind to an old girlfriend, someone other then your wife a sin? Are we to only masturbate to vision of your spouse. Is that OK? Is masturbating normal or not?
Just recently, some buddies and I talked about Porn. It gets pretty funny. We all have looked at it and masturbated to it. Some are brave enough to said they still did, and discussion to say it was normal, and one said he didn't need it. He didn't need sex like he used to.. he was 55 and all of us under 50. I have asked my wife if she masturbated. She said yes, before dday. I told her all about me visiting porn and that I could easily have sex everyday... that may have been why I hurt so much, her giving it to the OM was mine to have, while I was accepting rejection time and time. That resentment lasted a long time. She said she didn't mind if I looked porn. But then I'm thinking, that coming from someone with no boundaries and a disposition to cheat... It's all so crazy!
A Christian view:
Jesus said (Mt 5:27-28) "You have heard that it was said to those of old, 'You shall not commit adultery.' But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart."
Porn is very addicting and ruins marriages and relationships because a person who looks at porn a lot becomes a person who does not like to have real sex anymore, they would prefer to watch it, masturbate and that's all. This is very damaging to a marriage as you can see. A healthy relationship is based on affections between each other, feelings that arise from touching is indescribable. When you become addicted to porn you are missing all of this and you become a zombie with no inner feelings for anyone except yourself.
I have gone to porn even recently thinking... so what, she cheated and I can do this if want as revenge in itself... revenge sex by visiting Porn... but for some reason, I just don't care. Maybe I should. Why is life so.....
Sorry for the ramble... lol
OK.. so today is my romantic date night with the wife! Off not to think about infidelity until the next day.... so if it pops in my mind, I am going to redirect it!!!!!
Peace out all!
[This message edited by trynhard at 8:36 AM, January 14th (Thursday)]
On the porn issue: I am not a prude. Let me get that out of the way. What is concerning to me about porn is the message it gives about sex and relationships. Most of it caters to men, as it depersonalizes women, gives the impression that we exist solely to meet men's sexual needs, that our needs are to be dismissed, that we are to be available whenever men want to have their sexual needs met, etc., etc. I don't find those message appealing one iota (not surprisingly! ).
Porn was a HUGE part of my H's life, unbeknownst to me until after DDays #2 and 3. It was then I found out my H's relationship with porn began at a very impressionable age--around 12 or so--when he found his father's secret stash of very hard-core porn.
Porn played a huge role in his A, as he met OW at an adult website which he went to when the high of other porn no longer existed. He started with fairly innocent stuff and needed "stronger" porn to get the same effect.
I very much believe that porn prevents emotional and relationship development and is very unhealthy.
I think it is quite normal for people to feel attracted to other people. I think fantasizing sometimes if quite normal, too. But I think porn is ultimately the kiss of death when it takes over, and it can, especially for people who have addiction issues (which my H has/had).
OK, climbing off my soapbox now!
I can't believe he was shocked by this revelation.
so brace yourself for the next downward spiral...i find that if i have something in my head prepared, like concentrating on the big picture with my kids, or even the little guy that i babysit i can usually take myself back up at least to where i am straight...its been a long time though since i have had a ride that really takes me up....it feels like the rollercoaster that tours hell, hells hell and back here again....somehow i think that might be better then climbing up to a "high"...way way further down....perspective is everything
tryn: the gift of writing in verse is so not mine...never was and never will be....there are times when i can write beautifully actually...and more times where my words have 2 left feet attached to them...
my point of view on porn:
like everything else in life, booze, fatty foods..e.tc...in moderation and when not used to replace and intimate relationship already in progress i see nothing wrong with it at all.....if it does interefere in a relationship with a real live person with whom intamacy is already established and healthy then it is not only not good but indicative of some major issues with that person....
if there is no intimacy between the couple and one of the couple want to use porn to masterbate...more power to ya...then the flip side is why is there no intimacy...is it because you choose porn over your wife...then not good, not healthy...is it because your wife refuses sex...then the man at least attempted it with his wife, she is unavailable then go for it....
in the case of sa or porn addiction...it should never exist....
porn when used by a healthy individual in a healthy was is fine....wow finally got it out right....see tryn...sometimes i got 2 left feet hangin in my mouth..or writings...
p.s. dip are ya goin to try to do some poetry for us???
Yesterday I spoke to WH more and then my IC and I really feel so much better (weird, I know.) Back to my old self sort of.
My WH and his OW are not in love (and I think that's so much sadder, but I digress...)
Anyway, I'll give the cliff notes version: she's more of a friends with benefits thing. I already knew that in my heart. It's kind of a booty call thing, and she didn't even tell him that she'd gotten married and then one day she showed up at a party with her husband ... they stopped seeing each other. He didn't have sex with her again until he and I had been together about 3 years.
So, that still sucks, but my imagination was worse.
I also told him a few of the things she's told me about while she was engaged and her "friend" over the years and he was blown away because they were not things about him and it was very obvious that he was telling me the truth when he said that. So, he's not her only OM and while I know he doesn't love her, they were friends and I think it was a real blow to him to realize that he isn't quite as special to her as he thought he was.
Then, related all that has been going on to my IC and she was very happy about his efforts and reaction post DDay. Said there is a long way to go but it's the best case scenario for now. She also explained how it's very clear this isn't about me or his love for me or committment to our family (he said that too) and that it's about stress and avoiding conflict and having developed a screwed up set of coping mechanisms long before we met. He's got a whole host of other behaviors too -- drinking too much (but he's not an alcoholic still too much is too much) eating too much, taking drugs occasionally, zoning out with TV or "secret" porn, etc. He's got a long way to go. He checks out of everything that is going to make him feel -- left while I was in the middle of labor with our first child and came back drunk 6 hours later, "had to work" when our son had cancer surgery, etc.
The A isn't the real problem. And both IC and I are about 99% sure OW isn't the only OW -- just the only OW who he has a "relationship" of any kind with. So, the cheating and drinking and drugs have to stop so he can get his head clear enough to face this stuff. We have an appointment together with his IC this week because his IC doesn't know anything about any of this. I'm just going to keep pushing, pushing, pushing because he's my love, and I'll leave him if he can't be a good husband, but it will be so sad. I know where all this comes from: his mother was demonically abusive. I've always wondered how he turned out OK from that -- and the answer is he's not OK -- he's just been hiding it and stuffing it down extremely well.
i agree that when ws's cheat is has nothing whatsoever to do with the bs's....the ws has something that is inside their minds and hearts that is broken.....and WE CANNOT FIX THIS...ONLY THE WS CAN FIX THIS....
njgal: could mc be resceduled...mc and ic needs to be mandatory for any ws who is given the gift of staying within the marriage...if the ws does not work on what made he or she stray it will happen again...again i said above, they are broken and need to fix themselves...and they need to do it for themselves... ...any ws who does ic and or mc for their spouse will never get out of it what is needed....
o.k. coming down off the soapbox now..
I was dead set against writing a poem. Asking me to write a poem is like asking a donkey to fly a jet. I think I flunked poetry 101.
However, your last request has possibly changed my mind. I was resistant until I saw those cute, sexy, blinking eyes. I may have to try and write a poem. I'll think about this during the weekend. I may write several if I can get on a roll.
I'm glad to hear that you and your daughter enjoyed my bird poop question. I hope you will tell her that everyone here is very happy that she is a honor student and that we are equally happy that she has made her mother so proud.
Thanks for the picture. I liked it.
I hope your date night was fun.
Thanks for the poem. I liked it.
Thank you for your poem. I'm not sure if I liked it though. I do not know how to read french.
He thinks you should be over it? I often wonder what is the exact time for this to happen. Is it o.k. to not be over it at 2 yrs and 50 days, but then at 2 yrs 51 days it is time to be over it? I'm sure this info is in the cheaters handbook somewhere.
One thing about him getting so angry when you confronted him. If I get accused of something I did not do, I get pretty upset. I'm not saying this is the case with him and I am not trying to stick up for him. What most of these WSs do not seem to get is the fact that with their betrayal, they have made it hard for us to not question such things. I hope you can learn the truth about this.
Porn & masterbation? Some seem to be for it, some against. Concerning this topic, I'm sitting on the fence, for now. Damn I bet the mods draw straws to see who has to get brave enough to come and check on the LTA zoo.
Well I am off to write a poem, maybe.
So -- just checked up on WH and apparently he's not too up on what I can see on the cell bill because he's not NC with one of the OW (texts from yesterday) and also our computer cookies have one of those sex sites on them.
Guess I'm taking the next step -- NC from me with WH and moving to another bedroom. The man needs to understand that I'm not putting up with this bullshit. He may have gotten away with it for a few years without me guessing but I don't play this game.
Asking me to write a poem is like asking a donkey to fly a jet. I think I flunked poetry 101.
believe me when i say i can relate...i cannot write it, translate it or fathom it...i do ok on roses are red, kind of poetry...but the stuff that is deep, well lets just say i never graduated poetry swim school...i sink like the titanic...
i can appreciate lyrics, i an appreciate letters, i can appreciate words straight up......i shot them that way too..
so dip if you attempt this, you are the better man....i know, i know you are the man and i am not...so i stand corrected...you are the poetry person...!!!
m3: i know how rough it is when they don't come through...and you really want them too, but they sadly do not....i don't know what steps you have lined up, but it sounds as though you have given this some thought...so good for you...i am still trying to put all of my thoughts together....they tend to get jumbled, especially when my feelings conflict with my head...
The A has certainly changed things.
yes the affairs our ws's have changed things...many if not all things...
change is not always bad...i am trying so hard to concentrate on the good changes that have taken place...even though there are only a few...they are good...and yes the bad ones outweigh the good ones right now by a million miles, but i am hoping that in time, that mileage won't exist anymore...i want to be at a place where i can be grateful for this having happened...i managed to get there in dealing with the issues surrounding my dad and my mom...it took what seemed like forever and a day...but had my parents stayed together i don't think i would have turned out to be who i am today, and i really like myself, i think i am a really cool individual...i remember the first time i realized that...it was so cool...i actually turned around to my mom and thanked her for keeping me away from so much insanity....had she not done that i don't think i would have liked me....
now since i already like me, i have yet to figure out what this whole mess is going to do for me...
maybe it will turn me into this financially wealthy independent person.... ...just how it will do that...i will let you know as soon as i do... ...but i say i need to think BIG....
I found a picture of my daughter (16 at the time). Her and her friend in a thong with there thumbs pulling it down a little. I asked her what if that pic got out? Did she wanted some 50 year old man masturbating to this picture? She must think I am nuts...
I think porn can be a problem. It is very hard to talk about it. It is a problem for you women too. If you say No to a "quickie", there is going to be an outlet. At least, that is for me. But it is also my responsibility to be intimate. I do view that as a failure of my past history. I failed to keep things romantic in my M. I failed to keep things intimate in my M. My focus was my job and kids. My wife fails in keeping things romantic for me too.. even today. She is a receiver, not a giver. Even today, she is a receiver, not a giver. I am working hard to make it my responsibility to communicate my needs... It is hard to change. I hope she can... or I can accept without dangerous coping.
I am telling you, since the completion of Retrouvaille, She has not said no to me. But honestly, that is not enough. I want to feel like she really wants me. She rarely comes to me and hugs me without my initiation; I cannot remember her ever initiating sex anything to be honest. She says it both of us at the same time... This has been our problems our whole M. Yes, I “coped” with Porn while she took the reality way. My ethics said Porn was not cheating while hers was with far more damaging route… greedy, selfish, hurtful reality.
BUT! I say this too, I am grateful for having the opportunity to be a great father to my kids during those 8 year. Yes, for 4 years, every afternoon and on Saturday’s I spent hours with them playing soccer, baseball, tennis, etc while my wife f’d the OM in some hotel. But with all my ignorance, self coping, inability to know how to communicate directly with my W was going on… I enjoyed, loved, appreciated, value, every minute of my time with the kids. PERIOD.
Now this coming faze of my life will be... ME!
So off I go to have a wonderful time with my W and friends enjoying the NFL today… GO COLTS!!!
YOU MAKE IT A GREAT DAY!
Ps.. great Romanic night Thursday night… (Even if I had to start it.. lol)
Peace out all..
[This message edited by trynhard at 8:27 AM, January 16th (Saturday)]
She has not said no to me. But honestly, that is not enough. I want to feel like she really wants me. She rarely comes to me and hugs me without my initiation; I cannot remember her ever initiating sex anything to be honest.
tell her this and tell her that she needs to do something about it...that your needs are now requirements in order for your marriage to succeed...long term...
enjoy your football, although by the time you read this the football game will be over...i hope they won then...
[This message edited by iwantamiracle at 9:43 AM, January 16th (Saturday)]
no bunny boiler on my end...
she sounds like she has issues...big issues
i am glad for you that she is far far away...i would say just ignore her, since there really isn't anything to do, ignore her..hopefully she will eventually tire of it...and that really has to suck...no peace available on that one...
A fun game (for us) but this year, we have a good team. We have been good since Payton arrived, but I remember so many lean years too... Ravens always have something. We had a great time. I got us a room at the Conrad and guess who we saw? Rob Lowe! I took a picture of him giving my W a hug. Of course she made all kinds of "Yummy" comments while I'm thinking the guy has some really bad problems in his life. I started to remember that last episode of his show with his wife making glory about her A with a famous politician.. all her brothers very happy…”you little devil stuff”, the Hollywood normalization of A’s and hurt… but I say, that trigger passed quickly with very little unhappiness.
Iwant.. “tell her that she needs to do something about it”… I have… Just not enough I guess. Changing is not easy for a person. Last year at this time, she said she didn’t have any “desire” for me in this way. It’s always an excuse or something. In a way, I feel like it is my own responsibility to make sure she wants me. I must do things that are desirable and think I am doing them. I am doing much more now. Also, I don’t want to control her, I want her to want me. I can honestly say, I cannot ever remember her initiating sex with me without my saying something to her. I hope that will change.
Oh well.. Peace to all!
[This message edited by trynhard at 9:26 AM, January 18th (Monday)]
I was having a case of writers block when your roses are red line opened the door. I will steal your line and write you a poem.
Roses are red,
The sky is blue,
I wrote a poem,
Now it is your turn.
I hope you like my poem. It took all weekend to write
I had the Colts, Jets, Saint and Vikes picked last weekend. I see a Colts, Vikes superbowl.
Funny thing about daughters. For most men, the only woman he does not want to have big boobs is his daughter. Big boobs are o.k. on all others.
Perhaps your W will learn to be more proactive. You are right, it is hard to change somethings. Do you feel like that if you press this issue too much, you are making her resist? Some people just don't like to be pressured. On the other hand, how do you make them aware of your needs if you stay silent?
How does she send you the pictures and snippets of conversations? Can you block these? I agree with the others, it sounds like she is a nut. Don't read her blog. Try to ignore her.
Hugs to the tribe.
[This message edited by trynhard at 4:39 PM, January 18th (Monday)]