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User Topic: Long Term Affair Thread X V I
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Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 11:09 AM, February 11th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

hey broken... it really is up to you to improve your life... If he is not willing to change, then no, you won't live that way... Give him this and ask him to read it... You guys need help. Asked him with calm... Do you want our Marriage? then you listen... why argue with him? just don't do it... Tell him you need help for you and it is a team effort. You won't be able to control his decision but you both need help. How are you both going to get back to that point where you both wanted each other enough to Marry? He does not know how to communicate.. he is a conflict avoider... how do you know if he can change? If he cannot give you these... then asked him for $3500 and you are going to get a lawyer... asked him to have the dignity to leave the house. or live life like iwantamiracle.. married but single for her kids. It works for her.

Don't live your life unhappy....

My wife did every one of the items below! And more...I'm still a head case. My IC says I am doing very well for 17 months out... I cannot see you healing without him changing, without help.

Understanding Your Betrayed Spouse

A quick reference manual for unfaithful partners

The Sea of Stress is Difficult to Understand

You betrayed your partner. Now comes the fallout.

They discovered your adultery. You ended the affair and promised you’ll never cheat again.
But the stress from their emotional devastation lingers. And you don’t see much change – at
least, not as much positive change as you expected. Many times, any visible changes are for
the worse. You observe them bouncing back and forth like a ping-pong ball, moment to
moment, from one emotion to the next. They’re unpredictable. There’s no discernable
pattern. Their nerves are frayed. They can't sleep. They can't eat. Their thoughts are
obsessive. Intrusive visions and flashbacks assault them without warning. They cry at the
drop of a hat. They feel empty, used up, exhausted. The stress consumes their energy and
their life until they feel like there's nothing left.

It’s terrible.

It’s an ordeal for you to witness their tortured, depressed and angry states, and what’s
worse, you don’t know what to do. You’re not alone. Unfaithful spouses never dream they’ll
get busted, so when confronted with their adultery they’re always caught by surprise; first
by their partners’ knowledge, then by their intense agony. Indeed, unfaithful partners never
think about what they’ll face “after” until after. The fact is: Though they inflict it, adulterers
are unprepared for the onslaught of their spouses’ overwhelming emotional distress.

Is this real? Is this permanent?

As you watch them sink lower and lower, wallowing in an emotional abyss, you wonder
where the bottom is, when they will hit it, and if they will ever ascend from it and return to
“normal.” You ask yourself, “Is this real?” Then you ask, “Will this ever end?”

The simple answers are: Yes, it is real. And, yes, it will end. But recovery takes a long time,
often years, and much depends on you. Can you be remorseful, apologetic, loving, patient,
empathetic and soothing over an extended period of time? Can you commit to openness and
honesty at all times – and forevermore being faithful to your spouse?

Be honest with yourself: If you can’t or don’t want to get over your affair, if you don’t feel
shame and remorse, and if you can’t generously provide appropriate support to your
spouse, then now is the time to consider ending your marriage and spare your marital
partner further pain. (If this is the case, you need not read any further.)

But if you have put the affair permanently behind you, if you feel and can freely express
your remorse and shame for your unfaithfulness, and if you can commit to supporting your
spouse through their excruciating anguish, then you have an excellent chance of rebuilding
from this disaster you’ve wrought to a happy, satisfying, caring and loving marriage.

The following is intended to help you help your partner, and in turn yourself, through this
horrible time and jumpstart your journey to recovery. So, take a couple of deep breaths…
and let’s start with three foundational facts:

What you’re seeing in your spouse is a normal reaction to a life-changing event.

Your spouse needs to grieve for as long as it takes in order to recover and heal.

You can bea positive influence on their recovery.
Now, go back and reread them several times. Let them really sink in. When you can repeat
them without looking, continue.

Your first mission is to learn.

Learning about your partner’s myriad reactions to your betrayal allows you to recognize,
understand and properly respond to them as they occur. Doing so will help you get through
this horrible initial stage, which can last a long time.

Below you’ll find a little of what your spouse is probably experiencing. They may shift from
one reaction to another, or they could experience multiple reactions concurrently. And don’t
be surprised if they return to previous states many times. Where applicable, we’ve added
some tips to help you to assist your partner through this. In some cases, however, there
may be little for you to do except to simply “be there.”

Most importantly, remember at all times: Your infidelity has traumatized your spouse.
Act accordingly.

Section 1
The wild patchwork of emotions


They expect to wake up any minute from this nightmare. It can't be true. They don't believe
it. This is natural. They trusted you and don’t want to believe you did what you did. It is
common for this to occur in the very first moments of discovery. (Note: If some time
elapsed between the discovery of your affair and the confrontation, you may have missed
this when it happened, but it is also possible for your spouse to return to disbelief.)


They are numb and often seem dazed. Their emotions are frozen. Their senses are dulled.
They go through the motions mechanically, robotically, but can’t seem to apply sufficient
concentration to their day-to-day lives.

"Oh my God. It really happened." They feel they're getting worse. Actually, reality has just
set in. It’s as if a ton of bricks just fell on them and they’re buried beneath them. They don’t
know where to turn, or can’t. Don’t discount the likelihood that they feel shamed by your
infidelity. So, they may be reluctant to seek support from friends and family.

Be available to them for emotional support and encourage them to talk freely with anyone
they choose. Suggest therapy as a means to help them through their trauma, but never
accuse them of “being irrational” or “acting crazy.” Be supportive and encouraging.
Commend them for seeking help.


They’re disoriented. They can't think straight. They become impatient, disorganized and
forgetful. More frequently than usual they go to a room to retrieve something, but once
they get there they can’t remember what it was. This is very upsetting to them.

Bear with them. Be gentle and be helpful. Help them find their misplaced purse or locate
their lost keys. Know that they will eventually come out of the fog. Also be aware that their
confusion, as with other states listed here, may be set off or magnified by certain “triggers.”
(Note: Read more about “triggers” below.)

Physical Symptoms:
They may sleep or eat too little – or too much. They may suffer physical aches and pains,
numbness or weakness. They may feel unusually tense and develop headaches, abnormal
tics, twitching or shaking. They may feel sick to their stomach and vomit, or their digestive

system may react with constipation or diarrhea. Weight loss is common. Usually the
symptoms fade gradually. If these symptoms persist, make sure they check with a doctor to
rule out other causes.

Encourage them to eat well and to exercise – but don’t nag. You might instead take control
of their diet by preparing healthy, well balanced meals. If you don’t cook, take them to
restaurants where you know they serve nourishing food and, if necessary, order for them. If
they’re not exercising, initiate taking long walks together. It’s a good way to ease them into
a healthy exercise regimen, which is always a good stress reliever, and will provide
opportunity for you to begin constructively reestablishing your “couplehood.”

Deep emotions suddenly well up, seeking release as crying, uncontrollable sobbing, and
even screaming out loud. Allow them their time for tears. They can help.

So can you. When they cry, give them your shoulder. Hug them. Help them through it by
gently encouraging them, to “get it all out.”

Be certain to verbalize your remorse for causing their pain. They need to hear this
from you. (Note: Right now, genuine, complete and repeated apologies are the best
“general use” tool you have in your repair kit. That is why you’ll see many more references
below. Read “Apologize” in Section 2.)


They control their emotions to fulfill their responsibilities, or to simply rest from the pain.
Self-control can shape and give rhythm to their grieving, but be on the lookout for constant
and rigid self-control. It can block healing. They need to reduce their emotional pressure to
regain equilibrium.

Allow them to vent when it happens. Be aware: Too much self-control means they are
storing up much anger and will release it powerfully, like floodwaters breaking through a
dam. So don’t be alarmed if they suddenly lash out at you, your affair partner, or even
themself. Understand that the release of anger is necessary to heal. Though it may not feel
this way to you when it happens, it’s beneficial.

Need to know:

They will ask lots of questions. Their curiosity may be insatiable or it may be limited.
Different people have different needs and tolerances for information, BUT THEY NEED

Let them set the agenda. Whenever they ask a question, whatever they ask, answer
honestly and sufficiently. Refusing to answer gives the appearance that you’re still keeping
them in the dark, that you still have something to hide. Do not hold anything back. If they
discover later that you omitted or hid details, or if the facts they discover don’t match the
story you tell, they’ll feel betrayed once again. Follow the delivery of each new piece of
hurtful information with an apology, and soothe them with another promise that you’ll never
again be unfaithful.

They ask, "Why did you do this?" They may or may not expect an answer, but they ask
repeatedly. If they do want an answer, provide it – and answer honestly.

Even if the question is rhetorical, be aware that the question itself, rhetorical or not, is a cry
of pain. And each time they feel pain, it should be answered with another apology. (I can’t
stress enough how important this is.) Be aware: Even if they are not verbalizing this to you,
they are still silently asking the question “Why?” over and over and over again.

They feel it’s all so unfair. You invited danger, you took the risk, but they suffered injury.
They want justice and begin to think like a vigilante. They may harbor a secret desire to do
harm to you or your affair partner. They may want to get even by having a “revenge affair.”

Understand that the aftermath of your unfaithfulness is an agony you have thrust upon
them. Meanwhile, despite your betrayal and deceit, and the shame you feel, you and your
affair partner may retain fond or even loving memories of your affair. One of my patients
described her feelings of injustice this way: “I feel like a rape victim watching helplessly as
the jury returns a ‘not guilty’ verdict. Then, the assailant looks at me, points his finger at
me and laughs all the way out of the courtroom. How can this possibly happen?”

A sad truth of infidelity is: It is unfair. Of course, there is no “justice” that can come from
this. Betrayed spouses generally settle into this realization on their own, but they need to
know that you understand how this plagues them. (Note: Read “Share your feelings of guilt
and shame” in Section 2. It explains the best way to help them through their sense of

Their self esteem is shattered. They feel belittled, insignificant, often even unlovable. Just
as you would crumple a piece of scrap paper and toss it in the garbage without a second
thought, they feel you crushed them, discarded them, and didn’t give them a second
thought, either. So, they question their own value. They wonder if you truly love them – or
if anyone could. They need to know why you now choose them over your affair partner,
even if they don’t ask.

Make your case convincingly. Be generous, but be genuine. They’ll know if you aren’t, and
false flattery for the purpose of mere appeasement will only hurt them more.

Over and over again, they review the story, thinking the same thoughts. Do not attempt to
stop them. Repeating helps them to absorb and process the painful reality.

You can help them get through it by answering all their questions truthfully and filling in all
the gaps for them. The more they know – the more they can repeat the complete story –
the faster they process it, accept it and begin to heal. If the story remains incomplete or
significant gaps are filled in later, they may have to start the process all over again.

Sometimes they remember only good memories, as if their time with you was perfect. They
long to live in the past, before the affair came along and “messed it up.”

Assure them that you, too, remember the good times, and want things to be good again.
Remind them that you want an even better future, that you are willing to work at it, and,
most importantly, that you want your future with them – and not your affair partner.


Their past fulfillments are gone. They haven't found new ones yet and don’t seem interested
in finding any. They feel they're not coping with grief "right" or they feel they should be
healing faster. They don’t understand why the pain returns again and again. They wonder if
they will ever recover and feel better.

You can help them by verbalizing what they need to hear even if you don’t or can’t fully
understand it yourself. Be empathetic and assure them that under the circumstances they’re
doing okay. Remember that despite how much you have hurt them, you are still the one
they chose as their life partner, for better or for worse. You may still be their closest
confidante. As incongruous as it may seem, don’t be surprised if they choose to confide in
you over others.


Feelings of resentment and hatred toward you and your paramour are to be expected. Don’t
be surprised if they redirect much of the anger that’s really meant for you toward your
paramour. This is natural. It’s actually a way of protecting their love for you during the early
stages. By restricting their anger toward you, they allow it to be time-released, and only in
smaller, more manageable amounts.

Expect their anger to surface periodically, and give them plenty of time to work through it
so they can eventually let go of it. Understand that until they’ve worked through and
exhausted their anger, they cannot heal.

The initial struggle is waning, but their zest for life has not returned. They are in limbo,
exhausted and uncertain. Indeed, life seems flat and uninteresting. They are unenthused
about socializing, perhaps reluctant, and they are unable to plan activities for themself.

Help them by finding ways to stimulate them. Plan activities for them around things that
hold their interest and bring joy back into their life.

Emotions in conflict:

This is one of the most difficult manifestations because there is so much going on at the
same time and their feelings do not always synchronize with reality. The most succinct
description was provided by the late Shirley Glass, PhD:

“One of the ironies of healing from infidelity is that the perpetrator must become the
healer. This means that betrayed partners are vulnerable because the person they
are most likely to turn to in times of trouble is precisely the source of their

The inherent conflict for a betrayed spouse is obvious, but Dr. Glass also recognized how
difficult this balancing act can be for a repentant adulterer:

“On the other hand, [unfaithful] partners sometimes find it hard to stay engaged
with their spouses when they know they are the source of such intense pain.”

The key, of course, is to stay engaged nonetheless. Be supportive and remorseful, and
above all… keep talking.

Particular dates, places, items and activities can bring back their pain as intensely as ever.
It feels like they’re caught in a loop as they relive the trauma. It is emotionally debilitating.
Triggers can cause days and nights of depression, renew anger, and can spark and reignite
nightmares, which may make them fear sleeping. Triggers can cause them to question if
they will ever again experience life without the anguish.

Get rid of all the reminders immediately: Gifts, letters, pictures, cards, emails,
clothing… whatever your spouse associates with your affair. Do this with your spouse so
they are not left wondering when those triggers may recur. Never cling to anything that
bothers your partner. It leaves the impression that your keepsakes and mementos, or any
reminders of your affair, are more important to you than they are.

Attend to your partner. Learn what dates, songs, places, etc., are triggers for your
partner. Pay attention to your environment: If you hear or see something that you think
might be a trigger, assume it is. Each occasion a trigger arises is an appropriate moment
for you to communicate a clear and heartfelt message that you’re sorry you acted so
selfishly and caused this recurring pain. So again, apologize and let them know how much
you love them. The occurrence of a trigger is also a good opportunity to express that you
choose them and not your affair partner, which is important for them to hear. If a trigger

occurs in public, you can still wrap your arm around your spouse’s waist or shoulder, or
simply squeeze their hand, but verbalize your apology as soon as you are alone again.

It is very important for you to understand and remember this… Triggers can remain active
for their entire life. Don’t ever think or insist that enough time has passed that they should
be “over it” because another sad truth of infidelity is: Your affair will remain a
permanent memory for them, subject to involuntary recall at any time – even
decades later. They will NEVER be “over it.” They simply learn to deal with it better as
they heal, as you earn back their trust, and as you rebuild your relationship – over time.

What else can you do to ease their pain and relieve their stress?

Make certain you’ve killed the beast:
Your affair must be over, in all respects, completely and forever. You cannot put your
marriage in jeopardy ever again. Your spouse has given you a second chance that you
probably don’t deserve. That may sound harsh, but think about it this way: Despite any
marital problems the two of you experienced, you would certainly understand if they
divorced you solely because of your adultery. So assume there will not be a third chance
and behave accordingly. This opportunity you have been bestowed is a monumental gift,
particularly considering the anguish you caused them. Treat this gift, and your spouse, with
care and due respect: No contact means NO CONTACT OF ANY KIND – EVER.

Get into therapy:
Most attempts to heal and rebuild after infidelity will fail without the assistance of a qualified
therapist. Make certain you both feel comfortable with the therapist. You must trust them
and have faith in their methodology. Talk about it: If either of you is uncomfortable with
your therapist at any time, don’t delay – find another. And if need be, yet another. Then
stick with it. Save particularly volatile topics for counseling sessions. Your therapist will
provide a neutral place and safe means to discuss these subjects constructively. Every so
often, think back to where you were two or three months earlier. Compare that to where
you are now and determine if you’re making progress. Progress will be made slowly, not
daily or even weekly, so do not perform daily or weekly evaluations. Make the comparative
periods long enough to allow a “moderate-term” review rather than “short-term.” Expect
setbacks or even restarts, and again… stick with it.

Actually, that should read: “Apologize, apologize, apologize.” You cannot apologize too
often, but you can apologize improperly. Apologize genuinely and fully. Betrayed spouses
develop a finely calibrated “insincerity radar.” A partial or disingenuous apology will feel
meaningless, condescending or even insulting, particularly during the months following
discovery. Your spouse will feel better if you don’t merely say, “I’m sorry.” To a betrayed
spouse that sounds and feels empty. Try to continue and complete the apology by saying
everything that’s now salient to your partner: “I’m ashamed I cheated on you and I’m so
very sorry. I know that my lying and deceiving you has hurt you enormously. I deeply want
to earn back your trust – and I want so much for you to be able, some day, to forgive me.”

As noted earlier, right now genuine, complete and repeated apologies are the best “general
use” tool you have in your repair kit.

Realize your partner wants to feel better:
There is so much they have to deal with – pain, anger, disappointment, confusion and
despair. Their being, their world, is swirling in a black hole of negative feelings. It’s

agonizing. They wish it would stop, but they feel powerless to make it go away, which
worries them even more. Remember that they can’t help it: Just as they didn’t choose for
this to happen, they don’t choose to feel this way. Beyond all the possible feelings described
in the section above (and that list may be incomplete in your spouse’s case), even if they
don’t understand them, they do recognize that changes are occurring in themself – and they
are frightened by them. As terrible as it is for you to see their ongoing nightmare, it is far
worse to live in it. Periodically assure them that you know they will get better, that you are
willing to do everything necessary for them to heal and to make your marriage work.
Reassure them that you are with them for the duration – no matter how long it takes – and
that you intend to spend the rest of your life with them.

Hide nothing, open everything:
While they’re greatly angered and hurt that you were emotionally and/or sexually involved
with another person, they are even more devastated by your secret life, your lies and
deception. They feel no trust in you right now – and they’re 100% justified. If ever there
was someone in the world they felt they could trust, it was you – until now. Now, they have
difficulty believing anything you say. They are driven to check up on everything. Let them.
Better still, help them. Overload them with access. The era of “covering your tracks” must
end and be supplanted by total and voluntary transparency.

You must dismantle and remove every vestige of secrecy. Offer your spouse the passwords
to your email accounts – yes, even that secret one they still don’t know about. Let them
bring in the mail. If you receive a letter, card or email from your paramour, let your spouse
open it. If you receive a voice or text message on your cell phone, let them retrieve it and
delete it. If your friends provided alibis for you, end those friendships. Do not change your
phone bill to a less detailed version or delete your browser history. Provide your spouse with
your credit card bills, bank account statements, cell phone bills and anything else you think
they might wish to check. Immediately tell them if you hear from or accidentally run into
your affair partner. Tell them where you are going, when you’ll be home, and be on time. If
your plans change, notify them immediately.

The more willing you are to be transparent, the more honesty and openness they see and
feel, the more “trust chits” you’ll earn. Replacing your previously secret life with complete
openness is the fastest and most effective way to promote trust, even if it feels unfair or
uncomfortable. Think of this as the “reverse image” of your affair: Your affair was about you
selfishly making yourself feel good. Now, rebuilding trust is about selflessly making your
partner feel safe with you – and you were certainly unfair to them. Keep in mind that
eventually they will trust you again, but you must earn it and it will take time.

Spend lots time with them:
Assume that they want your company at all times. The more time you spend in their sight,
the more they will feel a sense of safety, if only for that time. There may be times when you
feel they’re a constant, perhaps even an annoying presence. Just remember that they need
to be around you – more than ever. If they need time alone, they’ll let you know and you
must respect that, too. Knowing where you are and who you are with reduces worry, but
expect them to check up on you. Don’t take offense when this happens. Instead, welcome
the opportunity: Think of each time – and each success – as receiving a check mark in the
“Passed the Test” column. The more check marks you earn, the closer you are to being
trusted again.

Physical contact:
They may or may not want to be sexual with you. If not, allow sufficient time for them to
get comfortable with the idea of renewed intimacy and let them set the pace. But if so,
don’t be discouraged if the sex is not optimum. They’re likely to be low on confidence and
may feel self-conscious or inept. They may even act clumsily. This can be offset by lots of
simple, soothing physical gestures such as hugging them, stroking them softly and
providing kisses. You might try surprising them sexually. Try something new. Choose

moments when they don’t expect it – it can feel fresh again. On the other hand, don’t be
surprised if their sexual appetite and arousal is unusually heightened as some partners
experience what’s called ‘Hysterical Bonding.’ Also be aware that during lovemaking they
may suffer intrusive thoughts or mental images of you and your affair partner, so they may
suddenly shut down or even burst into tears. Again, apologize for making them feel this
way. Express that you choose them – and not your affair partner. Reassure them by
emphasizing that they are the only one you truly want.

Share your feelings of guilt and shame:
If you exhibit no shame or guilt for hurting them, they’ll wonder if you’re truly capable of
being sensitive, caring or even feeling. They may see you as callous and self-absorbed, and
question if it’s really worth another try with you. But if you’re like most people who have
badly hurt someone you truly love, then you certainly feel shame and guilt, though
verbalizing it may be hard for you. Of course, some people do find it difficult to express
these feelings, but try. You’ll find it provides a great sense of relief to share this with your
partner. Moreover, do not fail to realize is how vitally important it is for your partner to hear
it, to feel it, to see it in your eyes. It’s a building block in the reconstruction of trust and the
repair of your marriage. Do not underestimate the power of satisfying their need to know
that you are disappointed in yourself. Your opening up about this will help them feel secure
again, help them to heal, and help you heal, too.

Let them know you are happy with your choice to recommit:
You probably think this is obvious, but to your betrayed partner, precious little is obvious
anymore. They will wonder about this. Do not make them guess, and do not make them
ask. Just tell them. If it doesn’t seem to come naturally at first, it may help if every now and
then, you ask yourself, “If they had betrayed me this way, would I still be here?” (Most of
us would answer, “No,” even if we can’t imagine being in that position.) When people give
second chances to others, they really want to know that it’s meaningful to, and appreciated
by, the recipient. So, express your thanks. Tell them how grateful you are for the
opportunity to repair the damage you’ve done and rebuild your marriage. You’ll be surprised
how much this simple, heartfelt act of gratitude will mean to them, and how it helps to reestablish
the bond between you.

Here’s a great tip: You will find it’s particularly meaningful to them when they’re obviously
feeling low, but they’re locked in silence and aren’t expressing it to you. Just imagine… In
their moments of unspoken loneliness or despair, you walk up to them, hug them and say,

“I just want you to know how grateful I am that you’re giving me a second chance.
Thank you so much. I love you more than ever for this. I’ve been feeling so ashamed
of what I did and how much pain I caused you. I want you to know that I’ll never do
anything to hurt you like this – ever again. I know I broke your heart and it torments
me. I want you to know your heart is safe with me again.”

These are beautifully comforting words, particularly when they’re delivered at such a perfect
moment. You can memorize the quote, modify it, or use your own words, whatever is most
comfortable for you. The key is to include, in no particular order, all six of these

1. A statement of gratitude
2. An expression of your love
3. An acknowledgment of your spouse’s pain
4. An admission that you caused their pain
5. An expression of your sense of shame
6. A promise that it will never happen again
Unfaithful spouses I’ve counseled often report that this most welcome surprise is the best
thing they did to lift their partner’s spirits – as well as their own.

Section 3

So what are the next stages, after they work through all their grief,
pain and stress?

They believe they will get better. They still have good days and bad days, but the good days
out balance the bad. Sometimes they can work effectively, enjoy activities and really care
for others.


They know they have a choice. Life won't be the same, but they decide to actively begin
building a new life.

They take initiative, renewing their involvement with former friends and activities. They
begin exploring new involvements.


They feel able to accept the affair and its repercussions, and face their own future.

Life Opens Up:
Life has value and meaning again. They can enjoy, appreciate, and anticipate events. They
are willing to let the rest of their life be all it can be. They can more easily seek and find joy.

While the memory will never leave them, the burden they’ve been carrying from your
betrayal is lifted. Given what you have done, the pain it caused them and the anguish they
lived through, this is the ultimate gift they can bestow. They give it not only to you, but to
themself. Be grateful for this gift – and cherish it always. Rejoice in your renewed
commitment to spend your lives together in happiness. Celebrate it together regularly!

[This message edited by trynhard at 11:37 AM, February 11th (Thursday)]

Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
booger bear
♀ Member
Member # 26584
Content  Posted: 3:31 PM, February 11th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

dip & iwant

I am reeling at the changes and the unknown in my life ...

growing up ... I have been thru every major event in my life with stbx ... ALL OF THEM ...

Now I am embarking on this huge life changing thing with out him ... I have no rock ... no security ...

granted it is enhancing my career which is good ...

what follows is moving back to CO, getting a job, place to live(and all that goes with that decorating ect), paying my own bills ect ...

yes I have paid bills and moved and got jobs ect but all with this man beside me ... we did it together ...

he choose to bring a 3rd person into our M and choose to stay with her ... threw me into the cold to fend for myself ... now we are D-ing which is only natural ... why would I stay and pine for a man who wants nothing to do with me ...

but how do I find my own inner strength to be my own rock ... how do I learn to live again alone ???

I have family ... parents D-ed but still alive and I have a good relationship with both ... and they get along better now D-ed than M-ed ...

but it is just not the same ... not even close ... a parents love & devotion only go so far ... the love & devotion of a H is so much more intimate and defined ...

I don't and won't have any close friends who live near by ... here in OK or in CO ... they are all hours and miles away ... but again only their love & friendship can support so much even if they were neighbors ...

and I don't wanna attach to someone friend or a new SO to quickly and become smothery or a nuisance(sp) or disrupt the flow of their lives with my insecurity of so many, many, many things ...

how long can someone listen to me go on before their like SHUTUP !!!

Like I am doing now in this post sorry

but I thik I hope gee whiz I made my point by now ...

I am fiercely independent and I won’t apologize for it. I'd rather be single than settled.

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Default  Posted: 3:53 PM, February 11th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

broken: all i can add to what has already been posted to you is that you have the right to take your power back, you gave it to him and continue to do so, he is a big need to decide what you need and not settle for less......if less is all he is offering then you need to decide how it is you want to live....your babies are little....there is no adjustment for them, they will go with the make whatever decision you make keeping that in mind...if you decide to end your marriage what will that entail for you all the way around...face those fears, name all the consequences and will accompany every possible choice you can make and from there decided what you can and cannot live with....

and no matter what decision you make you do not have to take his not allow him to bully you, simply disengage, and i speak from is not an east task, and there are times when disengaging is not an option because children are involved, its a hard existance, very hard and sometimes very look at all your choices very carefully....your kids are so young so time is so on your side....and you can change your mind at any time...

if you choose to make your marriage work you will need to make a list of dealbreakers for him, and don't make this list lightly....if you do not mean it, don't put it out there, he will pick up on those things and not believe you and basically giving him carte-blanche......and part of your dealbreakers should be mc and ic for both of you.....

and yes come here as often as you need, as many times as you need, sometimes just being able to get it out helps you find some of your peace of mind.....

we are here for you


the list the tryn gave you is a great one, print it out and give it to him.....see if he really cares enough to do what it takes...


too late, we are on page 39

listen dip, i wasn't expectin as ass....i married one, i try not to look for any more...


but how do I find my own inner strength to be my own rock ... how do I learn to live again alone ???

you already have.....believe it or not you already have....look at how much you have already endured, and now you are putting your life back did that, not anyone

look at this as the adventure it could be, you are embarking on a whole new start....and you actually have the opportunity to do so, which is in itself is a gift......

and you are learning to be your own rock, you found si, and you are here with the biggest most wonderful support system anyone can have......

sure it would be awesome to have a support system irl...but you never know, you just might find that....

and yes i know it can be lonely, and believe it or not, i have real live people to support me, but my lonliness is still there.....its within that we find that peace, not with others.....and most of the time i am ok with that, i like myself most of the time....and the times i am the lonliest the people in my life cannot fill that is a void left by not feeling that special someone in ones life....but i pull my big girl panties up and i deal...shake it out and move on.....usually picking up a book to delve into...

i believe that life will get better, i believe in myself....i will not let his assholeness win.....i will not let what he did destroy me.....its a faith and you have it too, you have already begun your journey to healing by what you have done so far and what you continue to do......keep it up dear heart...and keep the faith...

we are here for you

m3: still keeping you in our thoughts for a healthy delivery for both you and your baby....


i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
booger bear
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Content  Posted: 4:14 PM, February 11th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

....i will not let his assholeness win

Love it !!!

thank you iwant ... for some reason you make sense to me and your words cut thru my fog and "I can see clearly now the fog is gone ..." I am singing ... can you hear me ???

till the next time ... but they are getting fewer and farther between

thank you

(((m3))) praying for a wonderful delivery ... as well as that thing can go ...

(((broken))) I ditto what tryn & iwant told you and the article ... don't argue with him ... just a power struggle he may use against you later ... to try and justify his behavior KWIM ???

Hey dip & ukgirl how are your worlds doing ??? there making fun of the mods again in f&g ... shocking right ???


I am fiercely independent and I won’t apologize for it. I'd rather be single than settled.

Posts: 18711 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Here, but not there ...
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Default  Posted: 4:30 PM, February 11th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Broken, are you in IC? If not, you should be. It sounds as though your spirit is broken as well as your heart. You need to improve your self esteem and know that you are worth more than your H is currently giving you credit for. You want to work on having an improved and worthwhile marriage and he just wants to sweep it all under the carpet. That is a very dangerous thing to do. It belittles you, for a start, and allows him to become the dictator. Marriage is a partnership and it is a compromise. You seem to be doing all the compromising right now. I would say (if you are in IC) to print off Tryn’s article and ask her/him their thoughts. If your H won’t read up on anything (yep, avoid, avoid, avoid), then you may get some ideas as to how to draw him out.

Now I am embarking on this huge life changing thing with out him ... I have no rock ... no security ...
You are your own rock honey. You’ve been without him emotionally for longer than you think and you have coped and you have managed. Yes, it’s scary doing everything on your own, but all he has been is a reassuring presence. You don’t actually need him. If you don’t want to be on your own, there is nothing stopping you from finding new male friends. A toe in the water. There are plenty of us who need a partner, who are not destined to spend our lives living alone, who want a constant companion. If you are one of those, get out and meet people. You are not doing anything wrong by just meeting folk. Men. Get out there and just enjoy yourself. One day you will meet someone more deserving of your kind heart and open nature. You don’t need a SO just yet, but while you are in between places, just make the most of the fact that you may never bump into them again!!

And I’ll never tell you to shut up! ((((((booger))))))

D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3328 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
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Default  Posted: 4:36 PM, February 11th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

To all: what are your plans for Valentines Day? It's Sunday and that is not good. H is not going to be away and I don't know how to avoid it. We never "did" Vday. It was one for him and MOW. Quite what the significance was, I don't know. But I do know it was "their" day. Suggestions?

Currently, I'm having tomorrow as Vday with a special meal. Scallops, duck and I've made creme brulee. Not sure. Not at all sure.....

D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3328 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
booger bear
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Content  Posted: 4:43 PM, February 11th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

teehee ... thanks cause it wouldn't matter if you did ...

as you can see I don't shut up easily ...

thank you for your words ... I am hoping to meet some people at school ... I have been hiding all these months from the public cause there are to many triggers in the public normal living hours ...

so I have been keeping time with the vampires ... that all has to change as of this coming Tues. gotta be at school by 7:45am ... yes that is am morning time ...

so we will see ... I think I am doing pretty well in public ... I venture out once in awhile and do see the people with skin tone, and have had not to many triggers ... have had some and they were biggees ...

so now I just don't look at people ... unless they are alone and childless ... and the more hermit troll like they look I look back ... why the hell would I trigger over a troll/hermit ???

so school should be pretty safe ... no lovey dovey happy family stuff ... most if not all of the other 29 students in my program are M or with SO's ... shouldn't have any boyfriend girlfriend crap to worry bout ... least they all appeared attached at the orientation ...

ok I am shutting up promise ... gonna go make a sandwhich

I am fiercely independent and I won’t apologize for it. I'd rather be single than settled.

Posts: 18711 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Here, but not there ...
old dipstick
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Default  Posted: 5:28 PM, February 11th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage


Yes for some reason miracle's words will, most of the time, make sense. Unlike me, she has a great gift. I go back and read stuff I write and most of it make no sense to me, and I wrote it!

Ukgirl and miracle are right. You are your own rock. You will do good.

Nobody is going to tell you to shut up. Miracle named the rambling condition dipstickitis. Probably the worst that can happen to you here is to get something named after you. It was hurtful and embarassing at first but I somehow managed to pull out of it.


Assholeness? Is that a real word, or are you making stuff up again?

About looking for another ass. I'm not looking for one, but I have on occasion looked at one. I try to limit that to the female behind. See, I am not just a boob man.

O.K. enough of this ass talk. Gotta get serious.


My W told me not to get her anything for V day. I think she is saying this because she thinks she does not deserve anything. Some how this feels like a trap. I may get her some chocolates. My fav style of course.

I think we will spend a quiet day at home. Maybe cook out.

I heard a add on the radio about a V day special rate at a local hotel. The wrong local hotel. Yes, that one. Damnit. Don't you just hate shit like that?

You explanitation about the double post makes sense. You are off the hook for that one. And, you clearly are not a dummy.


That was some great information. You are the king! The king lion among the lions!!

Hugs to the tribe.

Her WW 60
Me BH 60
M 36 yr
D-day#1 fall of 76 OM#1 2NS
D-day#2 summer of 89 OM#2 LTA 8 yrs OM#3 Short Term A

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Default  Posted: 6:41 PM, February 11th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage


am singing ... can you hear me ???

so thats why i hear humming in my ear... ...i not only hear you but join you...

"I can see clearly now, the rain is gone,
I can see all obstacles in my way
Gone are the dark clouds that had me blind
It�s gonna be a bright (bright), bright (bright)
Sun-Shiny day.

I think I can make it now, the pain is gone
All of the bad feelings have disappeared
Here is the rainbow I�ve been prayin?for
It�s gonna be a bright (bright), bright (bright)
Sun-Shiny day.

Look all around, there�s nothin?but blue skies
Look straight ahead, nothin?but blue skies

I can see clearly now, the rain is gone,
I can see all obstacles in my way
Gone are the dark clouds that had me blind
It�s gonna be a bright (bright), bright (bright)
Sun-Shiny day. "

i think this should be a new theme song...what do ya think tribe?...

so now I just don't look at people ... unless they are alone and childless ... and the more hermit troll like they look I look back ... why the hell would I trigger over a troll/hermit ???

well i would think you trigger because this is one thing that you might fear....ending up alone..

unfortunately infidelity has triggers galore, it seems sometimes they are around every funkin corner.....and i f i could i would invent some kind of stick bomb, so that when the trigger hits i could, we could hit back......but alas no stink bomb, so we need to dig deep and find distractions, kind of shake it off kind of distraction...cause wallowing in it does no one any good...


To all: what are your plans for Valentines Day?

want to come over?...i think its only like a 10 hour flight, i will even pick you up at the can come and my kids, have a snowball fight....and i could cook you a fab dinner.....

if not, i will understand, i will be somewhat disappointed, but i will could always do a spa day, or go on some kind of adventure...what kind of active activity did you always want to do?....aside from visiting me...


Assholeness? Is that a real word, or are you making stuff up again?

i have no idea if this is a real word, but it is now if it is not....i like making up words....

its fun

Yes for some reason miracle's words will, most of the time, make sense. Unlike me, she has a great gift

i do make sense

wow cool

and btw you make perfect sense too, even when your mind is on boob patrol... ...ahem...or ass patrol...

My W told me not to get her anything for V day. I think she is saying this because she thinks she does not deserve anything. Some how this feels like a trap. I may get her some chocolates. My fav style of course.

you are absolutely correct this is a trap, i repeat this is a trap....(waving my arms, like the robot in Lost in Space"...danger, danger...

and you might want to be careful about the chocolates too, make sure you get her something she likes too, and if she is on a diet or watches what she eats, maybe something else like a gift cert for a spa, or a stuffie...just sayin....


i can see clearly now...

i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
booger bear
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Content  Posted: 6:52 PM, February 11th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

woohoo we have a theme song ... YEEEEESSSSS!!!!!

and dip you better listen to iwant she is sooooo right ...

you know the buzzer sound and then the robot voice comes and says this machine will self destruct in x amount of time ...

well the buzzer is going off ...

I am fiercely independent and I won’t apologize for it. I'd rather be single than settled.

Posts: 18711 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Here, but not there ...
old dipstick
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Default  Posted: 7:05 PM, February 11th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Well to avoid the trap I guess I had better get her something. I have never missed a V day yet. I hate to ruin my perfect record. There were a few V days that I almost did not her anything.

I am almost scared to ask this question. Miracle, what is a stuffie?

Her WW 60
Me BH 60
M 36 yr
D-day#1 fall of 76 OM#1 2NS
D-day#2 summer of 89 OM#2 LTA 8 yrs OM#3 Short Term A

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Default  Posted: 7:17 AM, February 12th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

UK... V day... last year I got my wife NOTHING! I was still hurting and it always seemed in the past I was out of town in past V-days, last year, I told her it was a horrible reminder of her A... He was with her when I was gone.. this year, I got her this and sent it to her office today... and I will never ever be gone on V-day again... ever.... you know what, it doesn't hurt too much right now even thinking about past v-days...

Actually, I still hate V day.... unlessen I get lucky.. lol

booger bear... I think you are going to like school! Good luck and work harder then those other kids...

Broken, You Ok??

Peace out today all

[This message edited by trynhard at 7:23 AM, February 12th (Friday)]

Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
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Default  Posted: 9:22 AM, February 12th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

dip: a stuffie is slang for a stuffed animal...

tryn: that rose arrangement is beautiful...and i am sure you will get "lucky"....

i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
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Default  Posted: 11:49 AM, February 12th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage


This is an AWESOME article. I couldn't stop reading and wish there was more. However, it made me cry because I think that the points addressed in it are so simple, yet so hard for my WH to get. And I cried because I know if I print this out and ask him to read it - he won't. I've tried in the past with books, articles, etc... and he just says he doesn't need some book to tell him how to repair his marriage. He wouldn't even listen to baby books when our daughter was born for the same reason. He is just that stubborn. He'll take offense that I even suggested that he read something that he would say is "generic" and not trust him to know what's best for us. I am in counseling, but he is not. He went twice early on, but it was just a shouting match and feelings were hurt. I've given up on asking him to go - he doesn't believe in them and never fails to remind me that he went twice and and that was huge.

I went out with some friends last night and had a great time. I am so much happier when I am not around him. I feel like I can finally just be myself. He thinks he deserves a Bozo Button (Chicago reference) for letting me go out and for staying home with the kids. I try not to go overboard, but I do tell him I appreciate it and thank him for staying home. However, I can't remember the last time he thanked me for anything...

[This message edited by brokenheart09 at 11:51 AM, February 12th (Friday)]

Me BS (33)
Him WH (35)
5 year LTA
DD:2/Twin sons: 8 months
DDay: 8/22/09 (his) & 9/8/09 (from her)
R: still deciding...

Posts: 78 | Registered: Aug 2009
old dipstick
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Default  Posted: 2:12 PM, February 12th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage


He wants you to trust him to know what is best for you two? Isn't he the one who broke your trust by having a LTA? He doesn't need books to tell him how to repair his marriage? Well he sure did a good job of screwing it up on his own.

He seems pretty proud of himself. I will agree with one thing he says. He does deserve a Bozo button, just not for the reasons he gave you. In fact he should get several Bozo buttons. You deserve better than this.


Thanks for the explaination. She does not care for the stuffies. She told me this morning that she did not want anything, because of her last screw up concerning the money. I think she means it. I did get her a card though.


Good luck!

Her WW 60
Me BH 60
M 36 yr
D-day#1 fall of 76 OM#1 2NS
D-day#2 summer of 89 OM#2 LTA 8 yrs OM#3 Short Term A

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Default  Posted: 3:07 PM, February 12th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage


i do not walk in your shoes, i do not know all there is to know but for one thing i know for sure is that this man you are married to seems to have a pair of balls the size of the rock of gibralter.....where does he come off with such arrogance...he is existing on fear....he doesn't want to face himself, which is why is probably isn't doing anything constructive to save your marriage...and it seems he would rather bully you in submission, wait you out or lose you......

hon, you need to decide what you will accept from this man and what you will not...

and when he watches his own children, let him know that is part of parenthood....he is more or should be more then a sperm donor....


like i said i do not walk in your need to decide for you...

why do you think you deserve to be treated this way, what is it you fear dear heart?

dip: yes your wife screwed up, but this is v-day and you are trying to make it work, so no free ride for you my friend...a card is not enough...and she screwed up...she should be doing something extra special for you...and not should not be bartered....unless of course the sex that is being proposed is absolute fantasy turned reality....


i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
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Default  Posted: 4:18 PM, February 12th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

....(waving my arms, like the robot in Lost in Space"...danger, danger...

Just looking in and saw this. I havent laughed in days...until now. Thank you!

p.s I did get flowers at work today. They were beautiful. I am cooking on V-Day for family. That is my gift to them. (Maken my killer bbq ribs)- WH taking me out tomorrow night (bday is next week so we are celebrating this weekend) Grandma is watching our daughter so we are having a real date!!! I am dying to have a "fun time". Just a couple of hours with out thinking of "stuff" kwim...

I hope everyone is doing well and even just for a moment find that feeling of love, respect, friendship in your hearts for V-Day. All of you are in my thoughts...thoughts of happiness

BS 40
WS 43

Posts: 240 | Registered: Sep 2008
old dipstick
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Default  Posted: 5:19 PM, February 12th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage


A card is not enough? Damn. O.K. I will get her something. I really think not doing what she says will piss her off. Since I am a married man I know I am supposed to follow her directions without question?

I do understand that sex should not be bartered. I am a little hazy concerning this fantasy turned reality stuff you speak of. Could you please explain this??


It sounds like you are going to have a nice V day weekend. I think I may cook my W some ribs or maybe a big ribeye steak.

Hugs to the tribe.

Her WW 60
Me BH 60
M 36 yr
D-day#1 fall of 76 OM#1 2NS
D-day#2 summer of 89 OM#2 LTA 8 yrs OM#3 Short Term A

Posts: 751 | Registered: Sep 2009
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Default  Posted: 6:57 PM, February 12th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage


you sound good and more importantly you sound happy and you are looking forward, so yay...i agree with dip, i think you will have a really good vday...


do understand that sex should not be bartered. I am a little hazy concerning this fantasy turned reality stuff you speak of. Could you please explain this??

i may regret this later, but here goes...

if she has a sex fantasy, such as being whisked away on horseback, being brought to a cabin in the woods.....making love in front of a fireplace on a rug made of fur (fake fur, must keep the animals alive and happy)....

performing her in her favorite positions, doing her favorite activities...etc..

you get the picture entirely romantic v-day...a win win sich for both of you....and she would be a really happy camper because you took the time to plan out something for her...not you, and yes i know you score too, but it is primarily for her...

so tell me, you knew all along what i was inferring to, you just wanted to get me to spell it out for you...

i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
old dipstick
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Default  Posted: 8:55 AM, February 13th (Saturday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage


To all my female friends here, I want to send a Vday greeting. I hope you all have a good day. Here is a special Vday hug.

To my male friend here, I say again, good luck.

Dr Ruth/miracle.

Thank you for trying to clear that up. I think I have a better understanding of this now. It helps to be able to get advice from someone who is so sophisticated about things like this. If I need more details I will be sure to ask.

I guess now I need to go and rent, buy, or borrow a horse? Find some fake fur?

You think I was just trying to make you spell this out for me? You think I could be that mean?

Her WW 60
Me BH 60
M 36 yr
D-day#1 fall of 76 OM#1 2NS
D-day#2 summer of 89 OM#2 LTA 8 yrs OM#3 Short Term A

Posts: 751 | Registered: Sep 2009
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