He said he "is who he is" and is unwilling to change. He won't beg, he won't keep trying and he's sick of trying and us not getting anywhere! I know that part of it is my fault for not always being openly receptive to him, but I mean, it's only been 6 months since I found out that the last 5 years of my marriage were a lie!!!!!
He left to "take a walk", but the outcome will still be the same. He says he's a selfish asshole, unwilling to change and if I can't deal with that, then maybe we aren't meant to be together. I was so calm, it was eery, but he raised his voice, cussed at me and told me that he "changed" when he decided to get together with me, not when he decided to have the A. I just kept telling him that every marriage has issues, but you need to compromise and that means constantly making changes and self-reflection. He says he won't change and he is an asshole and perfectly happy being alone. He says he doesn't think I deserve to "judge" him and he won't be judged. He says he won't jump through hoops for me forever....
Look, the way he treats you is the way your DD is going to let men treat her. So there you go. Anyway, good luck.
As for Valentine's Day -- I was married on it the first time I married and so it's never been that great for me since I divorced. I got gifts for everyone in the house and we went out to eat as a family at lunchtime. I think this one wasn't as hard as some have been, but between finding out about the A, finding out my XH is getting married again (#3 and he's 34, jeesh) being pregnant/hormonal, etc. it wasn't so hot.
Spoke to my fave priest Friday -- it was so encouraging/discouraging. Nice to talk to him though.
I mainly wanted to talk about forgiveness and childbearing but we spoke about some other things too. He had great insights.
just know that you do not deserve this, you have done NOTHING WRONG..... he is the one who needs to step up....he is the one who needs to get a grip on reality...
I know that part of it is my fault for not always being openly receptive to him,
NO..NO ...NO....NO....NONE OF THIS IS YOUR FAULT....YOU DO NOT HAVE TO BE OPENLY RECEPTIVE TO A MAN WHO WAS DECEPTIVE.....YOU DO NOT HAVE TO BE RECEPTIVE AT ALL....IF HE WANTS RECEPTIVE THEN HE NEEDS TO CHANGE HIS ATTITUDE AND FIND REMORSE...
(btw...i wasn't just yelling, i was screaming...waving arms too while shaking some fists...)
m3: good to hear from you....and i guess no baby yet....it is good that your favorite priest has been available for you, its good when you have a good support system...it helps tremendously
Sounds like he has taken his position.. he is going to be a cheater. He is going to be an ass hole to you. After a long A, most marriages just cannot survive it. Hold your head high and know you were true. These people that have LTA’s are not healthy people, they are sick. You know what he is saying is not a healthy attitude. Without calling him sick, or accusing, arguing, read and give him the following reading… give him what I gave you last week… Maybe just give this to him in a note saying…. This is a healthy marriage.
Broken, sometimes people have no idea what they have until it is gone.... they are not willing to change until that happens. I am so sorry you must make a choice right now. There is not a time limit to make this decision... take your time. You can survive this relationship until you gain the courage to do what you have to do… Make the healthy boundaries you know are right and stick by them.. plan today to make smart decisions now. All you can do is provide you H with information about being in a healthy relationship. It is up to him to make decisions on his life.
Yes, I think all marriages have issues. For some reason, so many people make the decision to be adulterers rather then fix there own problems.. it is up to YOU to fix what you need and It was up to HIM to fix what he didn't like about you. He has chosen to be a prick. If he thinks he can find another woman that will accept his “prick” attitude, he’s in dream land. Believe me, this is a choice by him. Because the next lady coming around he is attracted to… he will not be a prick to her. I bet he was not this man when you met him. I am sorry to say, your H is making the choice to end this M, unless you accept being treated like shit… keeping you in misery. He does not know how to address this conflict. I bet this is the biggest problem he has ever faced in his life...it is a biggy. He wants his life mistake to just go away.. it will not.. it will take a long time for you to forgive him… It just will... I think it is safe to say, if he does not want to be loving to you, you will never recover. You will always be unhappy.
You are in misery right now... We can have money, material things, education, good looks… but none of that means anything compared to happiness in our souls… You cannot change the past but, You can make decisions today that will affect your future happiness. None will be easy and you always be faced with new challenges. Make good decisions for YOU… for you kids... but mainly for YOU!
I so pray for your peace…
[This message edited by trynhard at 8:42 AM, February 16th (Tuesday)]
I'm doing good... That movie was not my idea... lol. Hey, I made it through it. It was funny but stirred up some bitterness in my soul...
UK.. btw.. that meal you cooked up sounded pretty fantastic!
m334455.. Good luck soon...
[This message edited by trynhard at 9:16 AM, February 16th (Tuesday)]
Well, it seems that I have to agree with your H again. He is a selfish asshole. No doubt about that. He says he is unwilling to change and if you can't deal with that, then maybe you were not meant to be together? So he thinks it is O.K. to be an asshole and you should just accept it? I wonder if he would enjoy being treated that way? Like I said yesterday, he is a big baby. It is a good thing he is perfectly happy being alone, because with his twisted attitude, he is going to have a bunch of time alone.
Broken, this is not your fault! Please read this part again! THIS IS NOT YOUR FAULT!
You really do need to explore your options. I hate saying this but you are going to have a hard time staying in this situation. If you feel that he has no chance of changing, what kind of life is that going to be for you and your kids?
I agree with tryn. Make good decisions for YOU. You are a mother, so if you make a good decision for you, you are making a good decision for your kids. As always, keep coming here for support and comfort. We all share your pain and we all care about you. Hang in there.
It is good to hear from you.
I was starting to get worried. BTW, I like your style. Calling broken's H a douchebag. That was a direct hit. Bullseye for sure.
Screaming, waving arms, and shaking fists. I like your style too.
Good advice as usual. I wish she could get him to read your info, but I am afraid he thinks he is smarter than everyone else, so why bother with others advice? She is really in a tough spot.
I have heard that movie was tough for a BS to handle. Sometimes the shit just keeps piling on!
Hugs to the tribe.
I know that having an affair was wrong and you didn't deserve that..no one does..I am thankful you stayed despite your feelings..shows some true courage
I did something wrong to you which has caused lots of issues and for that I apologize.
he is doing the waffle....he still needs to do what YOU NEED HIM TO DO.....not what he thinks is enough.....please do not buy his shit....stand firm.....if he comes around and does what you need ...great....but brace yourself, he probably won't or he will do a minimum and pray it will be enough...and i know from my own experience it will never be enough....YOU NEED WHAT YOU NEED AND NOT A SINGLE SPEC LESS........
and i know what it is to want to believe.....wanting doesn't make it so.....
you need to plan, you have 2 babies, make a plan for you and them.....don't do anything rash without making plans for all of it.....
sending you huge hugs
I like your style too.
your style aint to shabby either...
I was married on it the first time I married and so it's never been that great for me
I know that part of it is my fault for not always being openly receptive to him,
I didn't realize that your husband is continuing to be so unromantic towards you..
does he treat you with dignity and respect, is he loving at all times, is he warm with you, is he considerate of you, is he giving of himself...
UK.. btw.. that meal you cooked up sounded pretty fantastic!
Deep down inside he must be hurting. If he could just make this go away somehow... It just isn't going to happen... and yes, this is 100% him... It was him unable to tell you he missed the sex, romance, or whatever! He failed... Not you... like all LTA's, these people are great liars and hiders... that is the one good thing they are really good at...
True, he is very lucky that you want to try and keep you family together. Of course he can change. It starts with... "I want to be a better man, a better person, better father, better husband...."
Most every marriage has true communication issues.. I think as time goes on, you learn what you spouse hates, likes, etc.. you become afraid to discuss things that need to be discussed. You need to somehow get to discussing things without fear, with thinking by both, you want to do as much as possible for each other... It is even harder after an A... the ugliness of it all just seems to come out.
I think the hardest step for you is this... How the heck is he going to learn talk safely? and maybe you too... Is he willing to accept your solid boundaries... and so much more... There is so much to learn... I bet since dday, I have thought about infidelity, read over 20 or 30 books about it, art, movies... I bet I have given this subject about 7000 hours of solid thought... some constructive, some not. It has taken me some time to process all this... and I am just now starting to heal. I can say my wife has done many right things.... I bet she has apologized over 100 times... 3 times the most heartfelt apologies anyone could ever give... she has taken my physically hurting her... It really is amazing we are still together.. And today, we are treating each other maybe better then at any point in our 25 year M.
Anyway, For now, If I were you, I would give him that paper written by experts I posted. Then try to loving tell him you both need to learn how to resolve conflict, and love each other again..
That's my advice.
[This message edited by trynhard at 4:33 PM, February 16th (Tuesday)]
I was going to post some advice but I can not top what you just got. I do have a question. He just had a pretty big mood/attitude swing. Does or has he done that often?
Aww shucks too.
You will probably hate this. I was thinking like you. If I should ever get M again, I was going to pick a date that is far far away from any date that has major connotiations. I promise I was not reading your mind. At least I wasn't trying to.
Hugs to the tribe.
Weirdly enough, things are going great around here. I"m sure my IC will give me some sort of lecture and make me say something to WH after my next appointment (then again, maybe not; he's behaving as far as I can tell and if it ain't broke then don't fix it!)
I still cry at random times -- but then again I am pregnant so I'd be crying about something regardless.
broken-- hang in there. that's a very small guesture on his part, but at least it's a gesture.
You know, my WH never felt truly loved in his life until I discovered this and gave him a second chance. He always said he was waiting for the other shoe to drop. Now I feel like I'm him! Sitting in the calm before the storm (not that there is any guarantee there will be one) and between his lunatic behavior in having an A and my parents totally selling me out when I asked them for help now *I* feel like there is no one in the world who truly loves me or has my best interests at heart. And sadly, the priest agreed.
He's a funny guy though -- he said we all have our hair shirts and some of us are married to them; then he said "Love your hair shirt!"
It's darned hard, but I'm not going to rip my family apart if he's behaving. I still love him, we're still friends, everything is different it's just weird. I don't love him the way I used to, but maybe the way I used to love him was no good, or not smart, I don't know. I'll shut up now.
Sounds like most of you are doing well right now, and I'll thank God for that blessing. Lent starts tomorrow and I'll be keeping you all in my prayers. I'm weirdly looking forward to the simplicity and penance of Lent. If there was ever a year for our household to be penitential this is the one
These days, mostly (the nasty put-downs were during the affair), ye
yes and yes. And I only want “the day” because it seems we never had one. Although as you say, it is just a day. But it would be nice to have a day just for us. And he gave all the traditional ones to her.
i find it odd that he gave her the traditional ones...almost like well i can't give you the real deal, the whole kittenkaboodle so i will give you these days to hold you off....usually it would be the opposite...ukgirl what about before the lta, what were these days for both of you...?..
its really really good that you have the rest of the days though, and you still have romance...ukgirl...what if you decided to concentrate on what you do have instead of what you don't....? i think it might more conducive to your healing ...kind of like a one of those gratitudes journals...what are you grateful for in this marriage....
we cannot change what has passed, even if we don't know all that there is that has passed, we can't change it...but we can change the present and the future by changing our perspectives.....
just a thought or 2...
m3: i am confused...what is a "hair shirt"...?
and it sucks that you do not have the support system i thought you had..i am sorry for that, but you have us and you have that priest and you have your therapist....
wow, lent starts tomorrow, i didn't even realize it, i have completely lost my faith, i don't see it returning anytime soon...at least the going to church kind...i still pray, quite regularly and i still have faith just not with any formality....but i still follow all the things that go with it, for my kids...so no meat tomorrow....or fridays now til easter....
maybe when you go get your ashes you will see your fave priest again....
how is the baby doing?....
need to go watch idol now with my kids, i will check in again later...
i'd like to share an odd slightly funny...
i go power walking everyday in the local mall, as do many others....i am there while the stores, or most of them are closed....well this morning there was someone new...it was:....drum roll please...
this man either wanted to be elvis or he was an impersonator....would have been funnier if he was power walking, instead of just standing around.....and all i could think was
"elvis is in the building"...gave me a smile for a lap or 2....
Sweetie, you dont have to take his cussing. Thats abuse. You dont have to talk about compromise and try to convince him to stay. You dont have to do anything at this stage except look out for yourself and, like Miracle, said, see who he is showing you he is.A man who is chockful of issues and who is refusing to deal with them in a healthy way.
Maybe he will change his mind later on and go into IC - WHEN he sees that YOU are changing. A wise person here once advised me to be the change in the M; to be the 'lighthouse' and when H sees the changes in you, whether he knows it or not, he will respond. If it is in a positive way, then yay. If not, then you will know what to do. Either way, YOU still have the choice of staying or leaving. From the onset of IC, my IC warned me that I was going to change, and I might not want to be with my H at the end of it. At the beginning, that just didnt make any sense as all I wanted to do was to save this M. In the last year, it makes TOTAL sense. Now all I want is to save ME. A very powerful but simple shift in my thinking.
Are you in IC? If not, please try to get into asap. Emotional abuse is as real as any other abuse. Take care.
That menu is impressive and he hardly noticed? What was that about?
Re the significance of the day for them, who cares? Really. So what if it marked some stoopid event in their stoopid A. Its still stooopid and he will be an even stoopider jerk for remembering. Dont let their poison into your heart.
Quick non-A related ?
How the heck do you remain so skinny on that kind of diet?
How are you doing? I am sorry I wasnt around when you were down recently.
She ORDERED you not to buy something? Sheesh. And you nursed her when she sick. That smacks a little of ingratitude.
However, this reminds me abit of my H.
Prior to dday, he took all gifts and good gestures as his due, w/o really reciprocating. After dday, he found it very hard to do this. Didnt want any more pressies/gestures, or if it was an occassion like his bday or Fathers day, where the kids HAD to buy him something, he asked for cheap tokens -what he did for me all those years except for the times he got me guilt buys.
I think that this is a part of them punishing themselves. And when we show this affection, maybe they dont think they deserve it, and therefore reject it.
OR (and this is me thinking wayy to much for this time of the am) maybe they are so hung up on their 'castrated' WS position,that they dont want anything to detract them from it, KWIM? Like a career victim always wants to be seen as a victim, even when they are given opportunities to lose that label. Oi. I am getting so cynical in my old age...
Either way, Dip, I am sorry you were disappointed. I hope Mrs D gets to make it up to you after she recovers.
If we had some warm sun and clear skies, I would so send them your way, but they dont call London grey and depressing for nothing! Heres wishing you loads of sun for next weekend.
Mind what you love. Mind how you are loved.
Now the old LH would have thrown a right hissy fit. i would have been triggered so badly that my reaction would have been off the wall. New LH, oohed and ahhed, and thanked him, saying I was going to share the roses with our DDs, who were so chuffed!
Before I could say anymore, my mum called and sounded like she had had a stroke. We rushed over, and she and I spent the rest of the day chatting in A&E. This was the most time we have spent together alone in a LONG time. It was revelatory. I saw so much of myself in her, I saw so much of my M in their M -I saw so much of what I dont want and what I would end up with if I dont carry on working on myself. Just last week I was wondering whether I should stop IC, only for financial reasons. And now I am more convinced then ever, that I cant ; not if I want to save myself and by extension, my children.
IC is a powerful powerful mechanism of change. I know it comes out as trite sometimes,"Get into IC"; but I know without a shadow of doubt, that I would not have survived the past few years w/o it. I have to keep reminding myself that I am NOT the person I was 3 years ago; but I still have a long way to go. For those of you who are unsure of IC, what do you have to lose? Choose your IC wisely. You must WANT to change/to do things differently. And a good IC will get you there.
Ok, now stepping off my soapbox.
it is terrific to hear from you, i know you have been quite the busy lady...
don't worry about not being here for me, the rest of the tribe stepped in, and i know without a shadow of a doubt that your thoughts are there as well, always.....and for the most part i went within....with the occasional rant...
Ok, now stepping off my soapbox.
no need to step off, those were some wise words my friend....
and i am even happier to see you becomming a woman who is finding her power....and is taking it back...and becomming the person she wants to be instead of the person she was raised to be!...so good for you, its really hard to break away from what you know, even when its hurtful, fear of the unknown can sometimes drive us to be people we really do not want to be but feel we have no choice to be....
just had an aha moment...this must also be true for our ws's......the only difference there is that they hurt others in being who they were raised to be.....and knew that they were hurting others by their choices....fear.....
fear and love the 2 drving forces of all of us....
those magical elvis birds.....
[This message edited by trynhard at 10:09 AM, February 17th (Wednesday)]
So why did he get you the taboo roses? If you think you do not want them next year you need to remind him that they are taboo. He is going to think that the gift of roses is O.K.
I'm glad that the new LH was able to stay calm, especially with the excited kids there.
I was joking with miracle about the W ordering me around and me not following through. Men joke quite often about who is really in charge in the M. I'm sorry that it came across as serious.
The gift issue came up again last night. She has a nice outfit that she wears to work. It is starting to look just a litte on the used side. I told her to get a new one. She says that after her screw up she hates to spend any money or have me spend any on her like I did on V day. This whole thing is now one big guilt trip. I just wish she would feel guilty enough before acting to avoid making these bad choices. A wish all of us share, I'm sure.
It was a disapointing V day, but she did not make the choice to get sick so I guess I can't be mad at her. We are going to "celebrate" V day sometime in the future.
You better watch out for Elvis. He was probably there checking out the hot power walking babes.
You don't know what a hair shirt is? O.K. I admit I do not know either.
Is that a local bird or a vegas bird?
Hugs to the tribe