m3: Hope everything goes well. Itís been a lot of years, but I did the all-natural thing and it wasnít so bad. Gotta love the Karma bus!
Weíve had a really good couple of weeks, with the exception of one bad day. As some of you may remember, I asked H to write the story of his A from the very beginning to the end (all 22 + years). He got 8 years in and has just never finished the rest. I told him that I still expected the rest of the story. He told me he really needed to not do that, but he guessed that sometimes one personís needs trump the otherís so agreed to finish it by the end of this month (Iím not holding my breath). I told him that if he thought it would be so damaging to him to do this for me, heíd better be making an appointment with an IC to figure out why.
What really came out of this bad day was both of us taking a heartfelt look at each of our needs and how we might respect each otherís different needs and meet those needs without feeling like weíre giving too much. For example: One of his complaints about our past relationship was that I always seemed annoyed when he called me at work. I told him, of course, I was at work and personal phone calls at work are frivolous. What I now understand is that he NEEDS that kind of contact throughout the day, and as long as my job is not at jeopardy, it is something I can do for him that doesnít cost me anything. He says now when he calls me at work I sound genuinely happy to hear from him. He did acknowledge that I still find it frivolous, but am willing to do this just for him. Iím a pretty well-adjusted individual, so there really arenít too many things I need from him for my well-being. But I do need for him to confront the person he was. So now we both have a better understanding of each other.
Along that vein, we talked about the elephant in the room and our very different ways of dealing with it. His way is to stash it in the closet, lock the door and never take it out again. My way is to set it on the mantle so you have to look at it every day until eventually it just blends in with the rest of the dťcor and you donít notice it so much. Any ideas on how to resolve this difference?
WS-59: LTA (22+ years)
MOW-54: H's old girlfriend
D-day 08/11/08 (3 days before 25th anniversary)
Working hard on R
Any ideas on how to resolve this difference?
i think the 2 of you need to negotiate this one as long as you feel o.k. with a compromise, if not, just like he said about his timeline...what you need will trump what he needs ...
m3: i hope you are wrong about the man your daughter will end up with...she has you for a mom, and you are her number one role model i know...and i don't think she will see a woman who has been through what you have been through and repeat it...i think she will see a mom who has got it together no matter what life seems to throw at her...a woman who became a lawyer...which means she need no man for financial stability not to mention how smart she has to be to be a lawyer...., she will see a forgiving mom, so she will learn forgiveness....she will see a loving mom who loves her kids and she will emulate that...and so much more....you are so much more then your ws has ever treated you then...but those days are over....its a new day in your house and you have open eyes, and a law degree and god bless you you know how to use it...
dip: i am waiting patiently...
I have no idea how to resolve that difference! Good luck.
Thanks for the compliments miracle.
Just letting everyone know -- I'll post again after I'm back home with the little one in a few weeks. Right now, I've got to get my work done for my leave and house ready for the baby! So exciting.
he posted again last nite...about how i triggered when we went over the taxes....the lie was really stupid...he told me aside from the very beginning he never gave it a second thought that i would just sign the damned papers...he knew i trusted him completely and that my signing was never an issue...then he posts that he is relieved that he no longer has to worry about whether or not i will check the damned papers....wtf is that about....why lie about something so inane....and all he does is tell me how he is a changed man....NOT...still a liar....one minute he seems like he is owning it and the next he backtracks,,,,he is incapable, which i knew...so i guess this a reaffirming everything i feel and the actions i need to continue to take...
m3..have a healthy happy baby!!!
[This message edited by iwantamiracle at 10:46 AM, February 25th (Thursday)]
I wish I had the answer to your question. Most of these WSs really want to lock up that elephant and weld the door shut.
Good luck! It is good to hear that you are excited.
Sorry you are down today.
dip: i am waiting patiently...
You are really putting me under the gun. You even brought out the blinking eyes! I think I have writers block, or maybe stage fright. I guess I really am chicken.
Hugs to the tribe.
Hello all ....
WOW what a week .... ALOT of information and my 1st test in anatomy/microbiology & physiology is on Monday ...
I think I should be ok .... 55 questions all multiple choice .... so I am taking a break tonight from school work and Sat & Sun I be a studying .....
well sounds like ya'll are doing .... miss ya'll ...
thanks for the warm thoughts the other day iwant
(((tryn))) I hope the roller coaster is almost done with you this time ... you have had a hell of a ride .... hang in there and keep posting and we keep giving hugs ... (((tryn)))
or I am just going to be oozing info out of my pores and sweating all this info out onto the street ...
wish I had the words for you ...
your words and the way you tell your stories/issues I know you are a strong capable women of making a bright beautiful future for your self ... without the lies ...
just hang on and be strong ... best thing I can offer you is to priortize the crap ... crap you have to deal with goes here and crap you can just flush goes in the crapper and flush it ... KWIM ???
don't deal with it all ... becomes to overwhelming and stressing ... be good to you and your state of mind and emotional state ...
thankyou i wish i has the words for me also... ...
i am learning to disenagage...not an easy process but when i succeed i do feel so much better...yay for me for that..
try not to explode that head of yours... ...it might get too messy..
[This message edited by iwantamiracle at 10:46 PM, February 25th (Thursday)]
At a loss for words!? Is my writers block spreading?
It is nice to hear the progress report. Study, study.
At a loss for words!?
only for myself, i almost always have words for others...
last nite i made me kids and pfm watch an episode of the doctors, it was about teen sex, the terms and the diseases....so my kids all learned a bit and pfm seems to have learned too..
at the end of the program he whispers to me , "i'm sorry, i'm sorry i ever put you at risk"......
all i could do was roll my eyes....over a year later and now he is sorry that he put me at risk....
see dip, no words ...just an eye roll...
Tryn, not sure when this 25th anniversary falls, but I do hope you salvage something of value to enable you to enjoy the day. You are still together and you have considered yourself to be married for all of that time. I rather suspect your wife did too but got horribly entangled in something she could find no way out of. She got very little from it. I cannot look at the photos (actually, most of them have been deleted) of our 25th because I know MOW was there too. At the honeymoon hotel we revisited, at our gourmet dinner at our Michelin restaurant, on holiday in Egypt. Our 25th , WHís 50th and DS1ís 21st were in close succession. Canít look at it. You do have something worth creating happy memories for. This is a new start in a way, just 25yrs in! Relax, let your FWW organise it and enjoy it, both for you and for her.
Miracle, well hon. Little lies, big lies, lies per se. Seems some just arenít aware what constitutes a lie. We all do it from time to time. But it is something that a WS should ask him/herself every single time Ė would I feel comfortable saying this with BS in earshot? What would the BS think if they heard me saying this. And that, my dear friend, should be enough to zip that gob shut. Or be fire on the keypad if theyíre online. Dunno what else to say. (((((miracle)))))
Booger Ė Getting ready to send some really strong positive vibes for those school tests on Monday! You will be FINE! Although I too am thinking ďwow, back to revisionĒ!! >>>>>>Revision vibes<<<<<<
Any ideas on how to resolve this difference?
Okay folks. If you are lingering with nothing better to do, perhaps you could help me sort this shit out that just goes around and around in my head. Firstly, should I be talking this over with FWH? We are four years out this summer and I just donít talk about it any more. Havenít done for months. No more than a few passing references if someone talked about affairs. But itís hard. Even now. I was chatting and made some comment and this friend said ďWill you ever forgive him?Ē I said no. He seemed to think I should. Until I reminded him how WH was deliberate in his deceit. That he was speculating MOW could be receptive and that they would embark on an affair to see if they felt they should be together. Fair enough. I could almost understand that. A fling. Like the ones I suspected he had before the LTA. I believe this was the one when he was totally in love and he believed she was his ďlife long loveĒ but that he was not going to leave until they were completely organised and ready to go. That a few years into the affair, when she was supposed to be going to France to live and didnít and we looked to emigrate to Australia but didnít, they made a decision when the affair was back on track. He had asked her to marry him, so how serious is that??
WH asked me to work out how much he needed to earn as a minimum to keep the house and all the bills going. Innocent me did it for him and I think they worked out that he couldnít affordt to leave without compromising their desired lifestyle. That they decided to carry on with the charade until the summer of 2006 when her kids had finished with university, our DS1 was working, DS2&3 had their last year to go at uni and college and DS4 was about to start high school Ė time for BW to be told and to get a proper job so WH and she wouldnít have to pay maintenance. I donít think itís any coincidence that her younger two had their graduation just a couple of weeks before dday and her silent calls to the house. DS4 had finished with primary school about ten days before dday. I honestly believe WH got cold feet.
And, as an aside, MOWís three children are all now in Australia and in the city we were going to emigrate to. Howís that for coincidence. I know her DD1 went about a year after dday, then DD2 went autumn 2008 and DS went about Nov last year. H had said emigrating was a way for him of getting out of the affair. I donít think so! It would have carried on as a two or three times a year arrangement. I could have been living ten thousand miles away and they would STILL have been having an affair! What a thought!
Sometimes I feel like Iím living in an alternative endings film like The Butterfly Effect or Room 1408 or that the options are all there to be lived and chosen, like Sliding Doors. Surreal and unreal. Kwim?
Well, thatís me fucked up for the weekend. Do I start on the drink now or later? Gin or wine? I wonder whatís going to happen in a few years time when he finally screws his courage up and goes running after her for a third time.
Oh, itís a beer. Enough rambling. My head and heart are both full of cotton wool.
Peace to the Tribe.
ETA to apologise for my prosaic diarrhoea!
[This message edited by UKgirl at 1:24 PM, February 26th (Friday)]
should you talk to him..of course if you are really interested in r you need to talk to him...why should you settle for an r that is not true, r that meets both your needs....
there will be some things though i fear that you will have to let go of, there are things i do not believe he will ever admit to, can you live with that...can you let it go, can you just be happy in the present and for the future??...only you can answer these questions....
i really believe that you want him to finally say and do all the right things, to step up the way you think he should...he may not be capable to do that for you or for himself...can you accept that?...
no apologies needed for getting it out...we all have been there and i am sure most of us will be there again and again...
tonite i spoke to pfm about the lies, he really has no idea of what he says, i don't think he ever did....he really wouldn't know the truth if it bit him in the ass....such stupid lies...makes no sense....not good for people like me, i am very black and white and everything NEEDS to make sense...
.....and then i will wake up...
(((tryn))) hoping to hear from you soon, and that you had a great anniv. and even better trip with mrs tryn
I think you and I are struggling with a similar issue as come June/November, we will also be 4 years out.
And this is it for me:
the strands (heck ROPES) of deceit ran so strongly in this M that its almost impossible for me to move forward w/o tripping over them in some way. It would take massive effort on both our parts (but mostly his) to undo and shred away those tangles. I know it can be done (look at WSs like Shirleys and BTs), but both our H's have chosen not to.
The fact that they are no longer indulging in their deceit is enough for them: "Look Ma, no cheatin here".
But its not enough for me (and I suspect you).
Its not really about the OW; its about our dysfunctional H's who even now, can not prioritise us and this M.
You know what eats me up? The fact that I am still here. Its bad enough knowing the ways I "aided and abetted" them through my whole M through my ignorance, trust and naivete and sometimes plain stupidity - but I continue by "allowing" him to maintain the status quo.
Instead I focus on me. On healing myself. On resurrecting myself for even now, after 4 years, pieces of me are still floating in the universe. On trying to find my path in this life. On trying to slay my old dragons. And the way I figure, irrespective of what happens 3,5, 15 years from now; I will be alright because of this. It sounds selfish, I know, but so what.
I know you dont like talking too much about your feelings in your M, esp as your H reads here. I forget: are you in IC? Hows that going?
You asked me a question a few pages ago re why my H brought me the red roses seeing as I feel so strongly about it.
I didnt ask him, because I dont want to know. Of course he will say he didnt mean anything by it/forgot etc, so what would be the point. The stoopid roses are still going strong and I cant wait to bin them. Today.
Way to go Mr and Mrs Kalamity.
All the best for Monday, BoogerBear. I broke into a sweat just reading the names of your courses!
Mind what you love. Mind how you are loved.
i have no words except to try and breathe....i am so so sorry for all you are feeling...
lh2: yes i am in ic...
Thanks UK.. I know our 25th is going to be very nice... and new good memories this year... all is now exposed about my W. Maybe we can have a celibration this year. Last year, I just could not do it. A simple card that wasn't even too loving from me... I distroyed ever picture with OM.. and all his family... all of them and every record associated with that man.
Allgoodnamesgone... I hope you too can find peace. Like me, just pick yourself back up and start a new day! It's hard to think good things will come from all this.. it will.
booger bear... life is about to turn for you! work hard on those grades and let nothing stand in your way... this will pay off... a great biz you are entering!
iwantamiracle and Dip... you both do give me a smile!
Off to have a good day! Peace to all today.
I started to make a list of every trigger... it is over 100.
i do not think that this is productive for you, i do however think that this list would be good to give to our wife, let her see it all, trust her with these feelings...i know there is a lot about her and of her that you do not trust but you need to start somewhere my friend and this is a great place...let her share your pain, a pain that she created and now has the ability to help you heal it....and if she is "all in" with this marriage she will welcome the opportunity to help you overcome your triggers....
i think this should be your last list, dwelling on the triggers will not make them go away....nor will it stop them from coming...the only thing that you can do is work through them as they come, hopefully with your wifes help...once the trigger is past, keep it there, move forward and live in the present....