he can't seem to go the extra mile & facilitate our R by doing simple things like not lying
lying for our ws's becomes a way of life, there is nothing simple about not doing it anymore...to have the ability to carry on with a lta the lying is in place for a really really long time, not to mention the lying the ws does in the first place about their life and their justifications for doing this...lying for them is second nature...
he tells me he doesnt even want to come home when he knows we're going to talk about the A or the repurcusions thereof. He really is very selfish in some ways
this reminds me of when i was a teen and i was in trouble, the times that i was sorry i would do anything possible to gain forgiveness, when i wasn't sorry i would avoid my mother at all costs, continue the behavior and not care one iota for what i did or didn't do....when one is truly remorseful...they do what it takes to earn that priceless forgiveness..
I just don't know what the proper repurcusion for what he just did is.
his repercussions are many, and are all deserved and they are his to own...
He's agreed to go to therapy but thinks it's pointless.
not pointless if one really does the work..totally pointless if there is no remorse, feels justified or just doesnt feel he needs it...or any other excuse one can come up with...the person going to therapy has to be willing to do more then just show up...they need to do the work
He doesn't want to transfer from his place of employment, but he will. (I'm worried about following through on this - it would make me feel better, but I know it would be hard for him to do & he may resent me for it eventually
this is part of the consequence...better forhim to resent you for switching the job...(that would mean that he is not willing to do the work and stand by it)...then you resenting him for it, there is already enough for you to resent him for and for you to get over and for you to heal...this is just part of the price he needs to pay, which he should do willingly, speedily and without a single reservation if he is remorseful...remember he wants that elusive forgiveness....
He swears up & down he's not seeing the ow & I have to say there wouldn't have been many opportunities from what I can tell
this may be true and it may not...much time is never needed and he has already proven to be a skilled liar....take it with a grain of salt...if he is telling the truth then yay
To an extent, he's always been very independent & not one to account for when he's coming home (tho I would know where he was)
again the price he has to pay and as far as being where he said...well i am sure when he was with ow, he didn't tell you exactly where he was....
his repercussions as you put it are many and are necessary for you to feel safe again and to heal with his help...if he is not helpful when it comes to your healing, it will make r that much more impossible...and the resentment you will have will build....for true r, he needs to be a part of your healing..
I just don't feel like he's as invested in this process as am I & maybe he just thinks he cant win, so he's not trying.
he needs to show you that not only is he invested but he is in it 150%...and that is how he can win...otherwise he is right he can't win...and the prize is a restored marriage...
when I called ow
nc needs to be nc for both of you...
I've decided not to push him to transfer work locations and just see how things go before I turn his work life upside down.
if this is what you need, DO IT...the hell with turning his life upside down, he did that and more and worse to you...again part of his consequences...
Im already panicked that the ow will be there. (I havent gone to work functions like this in years & I think we would both feel awkward if I went as everyone would clearly know I'm my husband's chaperone.)
i say GO..the hell with all those people...show them that you are very much a part of his life in all ways...and show her the same...either that or he doesn't go...take your pick...but not going for the reasons you listed is something you probably would end up regretting...and you are not his chaperone, you are his wife and you have a right to be there by his side...
he's going to go to counseling
this is a start, but he needs to do more then show up...
and i am glad you liked the song...did ya sing it.. ..out loud..
was however, bright enough to figure out UKgirl's story about DM & DC. She posted her explaination while I was posting. Damn I wanted to be first but she beat me to it.
[This message edited by iwantamiracle at 9:03 PM, March 1st (Monday)]
well I think it's fixed ... I pray it is fixed and stays that way ... till I can afford another one in a little over a year
and my test today went awesome ... won't know my grade till morrow morning ... but I feel like I did really well ... knock on wood ... have had that feeling before and totally blew the test
anyway so had a super busy evening with the car thing ... didn't get home till after 7 and I have another test morrow ... I am not as nervous bout this one as I was the biology, microbiology, anatomy & psysiology one yes those were all together
this one is over long term nursing stuff ... like how to put on gloves and how to wash your hands
and today it is official hired an atty ... I have a conference call morrow with him ... to give him all the particulars ... names ssn's blah blah blah
k that is my update ... gotta go back and study ...
good luck with your car too...
and today it is official hired an atty ...
YAY, YAY, YAY...i am proud...you can't see me but i am standing up for you in more ways then one..
this will also be filled with some pain my friend, a mixture if you will of sadness, excitement and finality...be prepared as one could be for this crap...
allgood: are you in ic....i get the feeling that your self-esteem is so low and i think its more then this a crap...
In general, I'm just a bit drained & worn out to fight the fight at the moment.
then rest up, try ( and yes i know how hard it is) to rest your mind a bit...maybe a little meditation...i can't usually just sit still for meditation so i walk, and walking it meditative and therapeutic and helps keep my new rockin body in shape....singing too is really good for the soul...in the shower or wherever...meditation is not just for those who sit still with their eyes closed, breathing...and i really think you could benefit from some kind of meditation..
make a list for when you go, sometimes our thoughts get caught up in whatever moment is playing out in front of us...so have a list...
booger bear... You sound like your living life again! Sounds like your gonna make sure H doesn't stick you with his debt right now. Smart.
It is good that he has figured out one of the things that gets him in trouble. He says he won't go out as MUCH? Well I guess that is a start. Do you get to go out by yourself? I know that you have probably sacrificed most of that freedom for your kids. He needs to sacrifice too.
I bet you did good on the test. Are you studying hard for this next test? Are you washing your hands over and over, and putting on gloves again and again?
Dementia? Did I say dementia? I don't remember saying that!
No I did not sing that song outloud. I liked it way to much to do that kind of damage to it! My singing sucks. I am not Harry Manalow.
Well I guess I was showing off a little. However I am not bright enough to pull a line from someones post and put it in my post with the box around the quoted line.
Hugs to the tribe.
I am a divorce attorney
Do you trigger over customers coming in talking infidelity? Just curious... How many come in saying cheating is the reason?
Courage to change is hard... accepting is hard too...
[This message edited by trynhard at 8:58 PM, March 2nd (Tuesday)]
and for your amusement - I am a divorce attorney
more then amused, i am inspired....if any one knows the ropes, your rights and your limits it would be you...you are in an ulitmate position...but i do not reccommend you representing yourself if it comes down to that...way to close, to personal and way not objective.....
yes find yourself a new ic...it will do you good...
However I am not bright enough to pull a line from someones post and put it in my post with the box around the quoted line.
like this above...
highlight the desired text and then click quote on the left of the box you are typing in and walla...a box...
and for the record i love barry...i actually have a few of his albums and a few of his cd's....
test from monday did not do so well got a 76% and the test I took today got an 81%
I felt like I did really well on both of them ... made some really dumb mistakes and read the questions wrong
my car started fine this morning ... today after about 7 hours of school it was dead again ....
dealer says it is the battery ... took it back to walmart where we got the battery bout 2-3 months ago ... walmart tested the battery and said it was good ... so now WTF ????
car is back at the dealer again .....
and I am washing my hands over and over and over and over some more .....
morrow I have a skills check off on de-gowning .... hat, mask, gown, and booties ... like if I was in an isolation patient room ... how to de-gown without getting the ick on me ....
I already did my skill check off in hand washing
you have no idea how complicated they can make hand washing ... it could be the new olympic sport
ok good night and ***hugs*** to the tribe
I know that I am no different then most folks. I expect I too will be thinking about infidelity everyday for 5 years. Wow... I can think about it and not punish my wife with it... That is forgiveness...
BB... You just knocking the rust off... Just keep working hard everyday and check your work...
Peace to all today!
those test marks are great but they aren't bad either....next time you take your time answering, and at the end review for stupid mistakes...its what i tell my kids all the time....those stupid mistakes are sometimes the killer of the grade...
you car....sending you some mojo for that....i am car illerate...i know how to drive it and i know how to call aaa..
tryn: that post was really good...but it makes me sad, i always get sad when i am faced with the fact that i don't have a before....
allgood: you are one smart cookie...and i like that your ws knows that he cannot fight you, and i love it that he wants to do right by you and his kids...that says alot about him....especially in light of all his other selfish behavior...its nice to see some good in people....
I am having a nice chicken ceasar salad though, ha ha.
$2500 for a retainer. Around here, it's $25,000. At least it is for the level of attorney I would need, since, blessedly we're rather well-off.
Booger -- yea! yea! I'm so happy for you. And a little jealous. When I got divorced about 10 years ago it was sad, but also exciting -- everything was fresh and new again and that's when I went to law school. I thought about my XH a lot for about 3 years and then almost never. You're going to be fine. I know it's not easier, but when I read your posts sometimes it feels like it would be easier your way, but with kids you can't really sever your relationship and plus, darn it, I still love my WH very, very much.
2 weeks from today the baby makes her appearance. I am SO excited. And scared.
About this car problem. Something is draining the battery or the battery is not holding a charge. If it tested o.k. at wmart it probably is good. I have had a battery test good that was not good. This is rare. If it is something draining the battery that can be hard to find. I hate stuff like that. It will drive you crazy. Maybe by the time you read this the dealer will have found the problem. Keep us informed. I might be able to make a suggestion about this.
This is your first test. You did good. It is easy to read those test questions wrong and make dumb mistakes on a test. You are not the only one who has ever done that.
Another female lawyer on the LTA thread! Tryn and ol dip were already outnumbered and now we are out guned for sure!
I bet this is hard to live this stuff all day long and try to view things as just a legal problem. I know in my dealings with lawyers, they really do not want to hear about the personal issues, just the legal facts. If a woman comes to you wanting to D a cheating H would you approach that with a little more gusto? I know you probably are not supposed to do it that way, but after all you are only human. Considering your life experience I can see that deep down you might have a little bit of extra motivation to give that cheating pos a kick in the ass.
Thanks for the instruction. I will give it a try sometime. The last time I tried something like that I lost my whole message. It was a long and semi-brilliant message. For me that was a real disaster as I type at a rate of about five words a minute and cannot spell worth a damn. I have my trusty Funk & Wagnalls by my side at all times and still screw up
I read that 5 yr post too. Intesesting stuff.
Last night my W was venting about a few major problems at her current job. She said she wished she could interview with a certain company here to try and get a job with them. She said the only problem was that they are often required to be on the road with overnight stays. Damn it really worked out the last time she had a job like that. I did not even answer and she quickly moved on to another subject. Why she thinks I would agree to her going to a job like that I have no clue. The fact that she even thought about it is a bit disturbing. I do know that if she wants to go on the road again she will be doing it as a single woman.
Hugs to the tribe.
As for the 5 year "thinking about infidelity"... I believe it. This has been a struggle for me. I'm not real sure I want to live it. The reality is that I have yet to accept this type of life after being so… I can’t describe it. I know this, I have so many feelings right now like never before…Right now, I don’t want to leave my family, what we have built together.
If you do decide to leave… My best friend is D now 4 years after his dday... He told me he rarely thinks about his xW (I lost her as a best friend too). But, when he does, it’s "glad I moved on" thinking. My first IC said I would not feel better until about a year. He was right. He also said that as the years went by, it would become more of a, “that was a bad point in our marriage” type thinking... many things would be forgotten. Our society has become.. it's bad but ok to cheat... what they don't know won't hurt... Oh well, let’s just go find another mate… and I do believe you can find another mate/partner and transfer the love you once had for you X to someone new. It is a choice! But as M3 says… leaving you to ponder once again.. will this happen to me again.. and again. I’m thinking marriage is hard work no matter what. At least now I’m fully trained in the best way to communicate in a M!
At Retrouvaille, a presenting couple told us about how they were both cheated on with small kids. This couple met while going through the D of thier first spouses. Both could relate to each other because what they had gone through… and soon after got married. To bring both newly married families together had it’s issues. She was out of town on business with a male co-worker, and they got drunk and had sex. She was cheated on in her first M, and now she was the adulterer. She had no idea she could do this nor at that moment in time cared about her 2nd M. They had a short A.. until her guilt could not bare it. He moved out for months… but rather then a failed 2nd marriage, they both decided to attend the Retrouvaille weekend. It saved there relationship.
i always get sad when i am faced with the fact that i don't have a before
m3.. you can actually file D here in Indiana without an attorney. Wealth is not even a factor... Unless your spouse thinks something is worth more then you and visa versa. Which is likely in about 99% of each D! that's why we need Allgoodnamesgone
[This message edited by trynhard at 12:35 PM, March 3rd (Wednesday)]
, I still love my WH very, very much.
sometimes this is the problem, loving someone we clearly should not...or i should have said...i should not....it would be so much easier if love were not a factor...
for me the love was based on fantasy of who i thought he was, i didn't love him i loved who i thought he was...so why when i now know him as the so called man he is i didnt stop loving him....because i still thought he could be that man...and every time he fucks up, which is quite often you would think...finally the love willl no longer be an issue after all i still don't really love him for who he is...i still love the fantasy....but logic doesn't always make the heart listen....it is such a paradox of sorts....you would think though that since i realize that i do not love this man for who he is then i really don't love the man....and logically i know this, emotionally though...still a work in progress...but getting there...every fuck up of which there are countless is another notch towards my ulimate emotional goal....
my ic last week or the time before that when i was talking to her about my dd17 and the idiot and the constant screw ups..she commented "he can't even fart right, right now"...i cracked up...and she is right..
tryn: i don't think it will take you the 5 years to get to the same point as that other poster, first off, you found si and us sooner, you have made more strides in the healing dept then he did at this point in his process...whether or not you get to a point where you don't think about it everyday..i actually think you will accomplish this...and you may accomplish this in quite a different way....even if your thoughts stray to it i believe that your thoughts will change over time...your perception will and already has changed...yes it is still the most hurtful event in your life, but you are a good man and i think you will find a way to count the blessings in your life, including some blessings that might have come from this....in alot of the books i read they say you should find the gifts that come from every sich...hell even i have gifts that came from this...i never have to deal with my in laws again...yay...granted i would rather have had the life i thought i had , but i never really had it, did i...but i am learning to appreciate some of the good...focusing on the positive instead of the negative...and you already do that...so instead of saying that at the 5 year mark you will still think about it everyday, say to yourself, that even if you do think about it you will think about the positives instead...and hopefully you will be in an even better place where you do not think about it, you put it away, take it out now and then and reflect and then put away again until next time....or use it and pay it forward, eg...posting and helping here on si....listening to a friend going through it and offer your wisdom....
i really think you can it tryn...
stepping down now, i rambled enough...
Sometimes good people do bad things. If they do enough bad things, then maybe they become a bad person. But maybe not. I think you love him because you DO see the real him -- it's all the BS he throws on top of the real him to hide from you and himself and the world that drives you nuts and causes you pain.
You love the man he is sometimes, and could be all the time if he would just have the courage to do so. It's just that pfm is a scared person. You can see it in all of his posts. Fundamentally, at his core, he's just scared, and grasping at anything to deflect it. So, the question is: what is he *really* scared of -- and the answer seems to be that he isn't quite sure yet.
I'd bet it's abandonment, at it's core. People do that, they decline to fully invest themselves thinking it will hurt less if they are abandoned, but really by failing to fully invest they make abandonment more likely. So, it sucks for that reason alone, but also That, and if you're going to fail, it always feels better to know you did your best rather than to know you could have done better and maybe succeeded.
So, now he's trying to find that courage he needs to be the *real* him that you love and you see, but you're so hurt and fed up by now that you almost don't give a rats ass anymore. It's a vicious cycle -- and you have to be the one to break it. How are you going to do that?
And, yeah, feel free to tell me to just kiss off instead -- I can take it. but seriously, it's food for thought. You're obviously very brave and strong -- strong enough to change what isn't working.
H didn't finish the story by the appointed date, but after my 180 he was quick to do so. Oddly enough, it was cathartic for me. The end of the story was very graphic and had a couple of revelations...most notably that they had had a physical relationship when they dated as youngsters. He always told me that they had not had sex then because she was adamant about being a virgin when she married. He simply left out that they had enjoyed a full oral sexual relationship (guess they missed the sex-ed class that explained that oral sex is indeed sex). Somehow it is easier for me to understand how they could slip back into that relationship than it was to think that they had formed a physical relationship purely out of present need.
He wrote the story out in 4 separate episodes. We had a little ceremony and burned them in the fireplace and said goodbye out loud to OW along with them. We both felt freer when it was done.
I couldn't explain why, but I feel like we have surmounted the last hurdle and are now on the road to complete R. While there is still a little part of me that feels like I've compromised by own principles for this relationship, I cannot imagine my life without him. I love this man with my entire being, and the loss of trust and respect as a result of the LTA has made me appreciate all the things I do admire about him that much more.
He told me that he has asked for the Lord’s forgiveness. Non-believers may not understand the significance of that, but it was a HUGE step for him.
(((LTA))) I wish peace of mind for each one of you!
WS-59: LTA (22+ years)
MOW-54: H's old girlfriend
D-day 08/11/08 (3 days before 25th anniversary)
Working hard on R
iwantamiracle.. Thanks for the pep talk.. boy do I need one! I think we are going to make it...