Jana, he claims to have fully expected that I would kick his ass to the curb immediately when he got home. (He told me in a still-drunk 4 am phone call. Nice.) And the first week he was definitely terrified, until he had a psychological break of sorts and depersonalized for awhile. After that, he changed so much. He certainly hasn't *acted* like someone who thought his marriage was on the line since, you know? He has never busted his ass to help me, win me over, convince me he was sorry, etc. Its what I would really be separating over, not the ONS -- his refusal to earn the forgiveness I was willing to offer if he did it. I wonder sometimes if he deep down feels like he doesn't deserve it so he is sabotaging himself? Cause what he says and what he does are conflicting and its very confusing.
Devestated -- I agree with Jana. Mine wasn't thinking either.
wanttobeloved -- hugs! Have you guys considered MC, so you can stop talking past each other? That How Can I forgive You? book might help too? I wish I had something useful to say but I hear your pain.
I try to ask questions and he answers them but like he is talking to a friend.
It is very hard to hear him talk about it like it is no big deal.
I told him it all matters and maybe he can be more sensitive to my feelings.
I think sometimes that no matter what he does it won't matter because nothing will change what he did.
I have no idea how to get over this and be able to love and trust again, but at the same time I can't beleive it's over.
WTBL, I think the common wisdom on SI is to not make any decisions about the future of your relationship until six months out from D-Day - you're still so raw in your pain. You say you can't believe it's over . . . you're still in shock over finding out about the infidelity. It takes so much time to process. I'm glad you're in counseling, I really hope that helps you figure out what you want and what you're willing to accept from him.
The Greens are doing fine for now. I'm getting killed at work but after March it should slow down somewhat. I am kind of nervous because I have my review next week, and I haven't met some of my objectives. The objectives are ones that I set myself, and they're stuff like self-guided training on different software programs, stuff above and beyond my normal job duties. But between being a scatterbrained mess for a while due to the infidelity bullshit and losing our other editor, I haven't met all of mine. I'm REALLY nervous about that. I know everyone who gave feedback on my performance gave me a good review, but it still makes me nervous. And I'm so slammed right now, it's not like I can cram and catch up on my objectives. Blahhh. So that is bugging me.
We haven't talked about the ONS lately. I mentioned something about our neighbor and how much I hate him. I started speculating that he probably cheats on his wife every time he sets foot out of this county, and in the course of the conversation I said, "This isn't a slam on you, but seriously, how hard is it to NOT cheat? I mean, really. I've never found it a challenge. And before last July, did you ever find it to be a challenge?" He said, "Not at all."
I just still can't believe sometimes that he DID. 8 months out from when it happened and 7.5 months out from D-Day, and I still sometimes can't process that it actually HAPPENED! I think given the fact that the night is such a blur to him he feels the same way.
[This message edited by JanaGreen at 11:22 PM, March 16th (Wednesday)]
I just still can't believe sometimes that he DID. 8 months out from when it happened and 7.5 months out from D-Day, and I still sometimes can't process that it actually HAPPENED! I think given the fact that the night is such a blur to him he feels the same way
Funny you said that my fwh and I JUST had this conversation too. I am surprised on how often the disbelief that it even happened is still there after over 8 months. He feels the same way.
He also said he is tired of hating himself for what he did :( I told him I dont hate him so he shouldnt hate himself just learn from it.
Jana I hope your eval goes well. Perhaps if you go into the evaluation with a plan of action and a time line for completing the missed work for April ,that would look better for you and help things!
Devastatedx5-welcome but sorry you are here. Tell us more about what has been going on in the past 4 years and since d day?
PLT-did you explore the seperation thing again with your H? How are things going?
Hardyards- how r u? I have wondered how you are and where you are in relation to the mess in Japan. I am unsure exactly what Asian country you are currently residing in but hope you are ok. Drop a line when you can!
[This message edited by hurting38 at 8:41 AM, March 17th (Thursday)]
My thoughts and heart are with those in Japan, many countries are now starting to get their people out, it's just devastating for the Japanese people.
I'm stuck in the same hole as i was last time we chatted, it just doesn't seem to go away.
WS seems as happy as a clam, he's away right now, and being great in keeping in touch and sounding very caring, because we are getting on well at the mo' he possibly thinks that I'm "getting over it" (his term, certainly not mine).
Neither of us mentions anything touchy while he's away, it's just too risky.
We too had the "hate" conversation, he said he thought I hated him, I said I don't hate you, but I absolutely hate what you did, he could understand that. It sounds like we all have similar conversations.
At two years out, occasionally it's like it happened to some other couple, but it hovers there, in the background, for me anyway, I think WS is a master of compartmentalization and he can actually forget all that's happened, wish I could.
I did a lot of journaling through the early stages, it was very therapeutic, and now and then I go back and read it through, not to poke the pain, but just to remember that I didn't, unfortunately, dream it all.
Hope you are having some good days, lots of good days, I wish that for all of us.
Wbf was promised a promotion back in December. Then following that, his manager got fired so he had to step in and take over his manager's job as well as his current and promised promotion jobs. They didn't bring anyone in to help or train him for any of this and Christmas is his busiest season. He was majorly stressed! Well after Christmas, they filled the spot of his previous manager and the two didn't get along as well and wbf started losing hours (from December to now he's gone from 40 -10 /week!). Then word came in that interviews were being done for "his" promotion. Wbf inquired and was told that he still had it. Then word came out that they hired someone for the position. Wbf inquired and was told not to worry. The new employee worked there for 2 or 3 weeks and then left because he was having personal problems. So he's getting hopeful that things will work out this time. I'm hopeful too -the cut in pay has been REALLY hard on him! I think for the last few months a lot of the "inappropriate friend" issue was him avoiding real life and withdrawing because he didn't want to deal with the mess. Now that it could be an option again, he seems to be dealing with it. Ok maybe not dealing with it, but more acknowledging it in his emotionally oblivious way. Last night he said something like "he's ok, just that his chest hurts". I got worried thinking it was a medical crisis but he explained its just an "ick" thing that sits in his chest and makes him feel bad about everything he's done with his life I sort of feel bad for him, ok I do. I might feel like crap but at least I can figure out what's going on and think of ways to deal with it. He's just clueless. I wish he'd consider IC SOOO much. Not just for the A, but i think it would help but 1) he would not be into the idea. 2) we haven't been able to go to our 2nd mc because of the money situation. He really couldn't handle adding another expense. He can't afford his expenses as it is.
Last night he got excited because he told me he found something. And out he pulled a book of lovey stuff that I made for him on our 1st anniversary and another one I made on our 2nd vday. Included was lists of memories and 100 reasons why I love you (and the vday upgrade was 200 reasons!). I read through all of them, even though by #2 (...because I know I can always trust you) I knew it wouldn't be a good idea at the time but I did. #2 was the trust thing!! You would think he would try to at least be consistent with the top 3? I wanted to rip the book up, there were more points than I'd care to acknowledge that I wouldn't put on the list now. (I know that it was written with that new-love and there would be new ones I could add. And some of them do still apply or will again -im just mad that they got lost at all)but I still really like it and I was happy he still has it (he said he did, but I thought he probably lost it) so I didn't.
That's the end of my vent. Ill re-type my replies when I get home. Hope everyone has a good day -its finally sunny here so I'm going to see if some vitamin D can cheer me up a little
So having mostly made up my mind to go in one direction I have now come to a screeching halt unable to decide which way to go. Or as my IC said, what was becoming clear water is now full of mud again.
Now, I cried when I read this letter, and have re-read it a bunch of times. We've talked about it, and his insights from therapy. But my 2nd reaction was still, "ok, these are great words but will he be able to ACT on them?" So I am feeling like I need to SEE it.
And my reasons for separating haven't gone away, either, you know? So I am still pondering that, and whether something less drastic might do. Like going away for a week or two on my own or something, or sending him off on a "business trip". Keep the kids out of it. Just don't know if that's enough time.
Started this morning writing out all my goals for what separation would do. Figure if I have a comprehensive list of specific things to accomplish, maybe we can see if there are other ways to get at those. Maybe that will lend some clarity.
Jana -- we are almost 2 years out and I still have moments like that.
tsol -- that must have been a really bittersweet find. I go back through my old journals sometimes and just want to cry when I see how much I loved him, how easily.
I read through all of them, even though by #2 (...because I know I can always trust you) I knew it wouldn't be a good idea at the time but I did. #2 was the trust thing!! You would think he would try to at least be consistent with the top 3? I wanted to rip the book up
Ouch! I am so sorry :( Man that would of majorily triggered me, you did better than I would of. ((Tsol))
PLT- WOW! Talk about a yo yo of feelings you have been going through. ((PLT)) to you too!
But my 2nd reaction was still, "ok, these are great words but will he be able to ACT on them?" So I am feeling like I need to SEE it.
So glad to hear you are safe and sound :) Its funny I have to admit I secretly enjoyed hearing my FWH hating himself(for a brief moment) for what he done but at the same time it scares the hell out of me,because I firmly believe a large part why he did what he did is because, at some level, there is self loathing going on that led him to this mess.
[This message edited by hurting38 at 2:46 PM, March 17th (Thursday)]
How do know when you have the truth?
How do you know when you can trust him again?
I am trying so hard to move on from this but there are so many things in my way, triggers, and feelings about the things he said the night he told me.
I think he is trying but it never seems like enough, I still have good and bad days.
I just wanted some input on what I should expect next?
For me, I knew unless I did know everything, and I mean everything, that he hadn't EARNED that trust yet. Among a lot of other things I needed him to do. And you know what?We're 20 months out and I still haven't gotten all those things and I still haven't completely forgiven him because of it. So it starts when he DESERVES it. Hang in there.
Jana -- I hope your review goes well!
We are... I don't know. I am just exhausted from all this time trying to fight for what I need and am just too tired to manage anything else right now. Am contemplating a vacation by myself to clear my head, before we make permanent decisions. Trying desperately to figure out a way to not hurt my kids. Its so unfair to them.
I knew that he was not telling me the truth because he forgets nothing so I asked him what she was wearing and he told me within seconds, but when i ask him what she looked like or her name he can't remember, How should I feel about that?
Then he said he will talk about it when cooler heads prevail, so that tells me he won't tell me the trith until he is sure i am staying, which means he is just trying to stay in control.
This just makes me sick to think that no matter what I do he has the control even after betraying me like this.
What kind of person lies about a ONS and tries to manipulate you to stay by continuing to lie and saying he will talk when cooler heads prevail?
I want to stop feeling this way about him, i look at him some days and feel so much pain and disgust and than other days I just wish he loved and respected me enough to tell me the truth.
This is so hard sometimes that the only relief i get is when he goes to work which makes me think the only way I will ever feel better is to leave.
Then he said he will talk about it when cooler heads prevail, so that tells me he won't tell me the trith until he is sure i am staying, which means he is just trying to stay in control
You are absolutely right about why he is doing what he is doing . It's just cruel and self serving. Again, like the ONS, its all about him and his needs, with NO regard for you. If i were in your shoes, I would show him the door TODAY and 180 him. Only if he sits down and writes you out EVERYTHING you need to know about what happened, should you even consider R with him!
Sorry for the 2x4, but either you do something now, or learn to live with his controlling behavior because what you are doing now is not working.
hugs to you-be strong!
Trying desperately to figure out a way to not hurt my kids. Its so unfair to them.
I so get this, but remember its damaging whether you stay or go, if things dont change between you two. Its just a matter of whether or not you kids get the damage all at once through D or little by little everyday for the rest of their lives. I watched my mother and father play out a loveless marriage and how difficult it was for me to respect them when sometimes (right or wrong) I felt like they did not even have enough respect for themselves to do the right thing. Instead, my sister and I endured watching the pain, and fighting and having them model a loveless marriage with no outward signs of true love there between them, just tolerence for one another.
Geez, and I chose a guy that is a good man but has a REALLY hard time expressing emotion and love. Is it any wonder?
Just want you to look at both sides of the coin with regards to your kids.... I am so sorry you are even here to have to make this awful decision.... Life is just not fair sometimes.
[This message edited by hurting38 at 3:16 PM, March 21st (Monday)]
tsol, ugh. That list. That would have upset me. How was your weekend?
WTBL, I totally agree with what hurting told you. It seems like your situation hasn't changed very much since you first started posting. That's not good and it shows that he isn't really doing anything to help you at this point.
Hurting, thanks for the reply to my post in Recon today. I'm not upset about it anymore so I'm choosing to drop it rather than have A Big Conversation about it.
Oh and hey, wow, did we have the same parents?!?! Except mine didn't even display tolerance for each other . . . yeahhhhh. How are things?
Candy, hard_yards, devastated - you ladies doing ok? poopylala, you still lurking? I owe you a PM, lady!
I am going to try to keep this short, but we had some interesting conversations with one of our neighbors yesterday. The assbrain neighbor who was with H on the fateful trip, well, his wife had her baby in December and apparently he's been having nothing to do with the child pretty much. He's still drinking and partying and leaving her home alone while he goes on fun little trips with his buddies. We were over at my other neighbor's house yesterday. Previously this neighbor, R, had been friends with Assbrain - and he doesn't know about what happened. I had had my suspicious that maybe he DID know, but after yesterday I'm pretty sure he doesn't. Yesterday he said something to me about how life changes so much after you have kids, they become your #1 priority. And I said that I don't understand people who DON'T feel that way, and he mentioned Assbrain and how he feels sorry for his wife, and I said, I'm just going to keep my mouth shut about him. Then later on he was talking to H about how glad he was that we came over and how he and H need to hang out and drink a beer sometime. H told him that he would love to hang out as long as "your buddy assbrain" isn't there, but that he didn't drink anymore because he can't handle his liquor. And neighbor said, yeah, I kind of got the impression that something went down on that trip that you guys took. SO H didn't confirm or deny it. I can't explain it but it feels so good that other people are realizing what an asshole he is. Including his wife. I still feel terribly guilty that I know what happened and haven't told her, but I keep going back to the fact that the guy lives two houses away, owns guns, and drinks heavily. And clearly has no soul. I'm not putting my kid in danger. However, it looks like he might manage to destroy his marriage without me or H saying a single word. Our neighborhood is full of little kids - and also full of very involved, engaged dads. All assbrain's wife has to do is look out the window to see that she is getting a raw deal, home with a newborn and her H takes off on a skiing trip without her. Refuses to care for his own child. Apparently he didn't want a baby, but she ended up pregnant. Happens every day all over the world but you don't take it out on the BABY, you know? How could anyone stay married to that?
Man I never even thought about the other BW in this scenario. That is a tough one, what does your H think?
I know I would want to know but I get your concerns.
Ugh!!! Having a bad day!!!! Give me some strength to not give up today!!!!
Sometimes men are SO STUPID!!!!
I checked my WH email today and noticed in the sent file that he forwarded an attachment to an email that I did not recognize but was very similiar to his own(man's name in the email address). I opened the attachement and its a pix of a younger woman in her underwear from the chin down from her i phone. the text said, not perfect but only 1 week out. It focused on her waist, and it appeared like she was either dieting or trying to get rid of stretch marks(she was overweight and had some sagging skin like she lost some recently).
I suspect it was sent to my H by mistake since their email sound very similiar when you say them, however, when I looked in his inbox and his deleted box, this email is no where to be found. I happened to find it in his send box send he forwarded it. He forwarded the email to this roland guy yet how would he know where to email it unless he talked to her. Where are those emails? It is clear he deleted them to probably avoid me seeing it and getting upset but it looks bad.
Add to the fact that this woman was overweight and what I could see had dark hair and looked young despite being overweight(hmm...the same MO as the OW).
I have not said anything to him but I did email her to clarify if she knows my husband. I doubt she will send anything back, she is probably moritfied,even if it was an honest mistake!
I really do believe my scenario is the right one but WHY WHY WHY would he try to cover it up????? How stupid can you be????
It makes me want to just throw my hands up and give up! UGH!!!!! I am here at work and want to just cry.
[This message edited by hurting38 at 10:42 AM, March 22nd (Tuesday)]
Oh gosh . . . ummm . . .wow. My first thought was to wonder, is your H a personal trainer? Maybe this is a client showing her results? But then again - still inappropriate. The scenario you outlined makes MUCH more sense but I would feel the same way you do about the deleting of the message. Maybe he just deleted it b/c it wasn't meant for him? I hope so. (((((HURTING))))) I'm sorry you're dealing with this, are you going to talk to him about it tonight?
my world is exploding!!!!!
Oh hell no. OH HELL NO!!!
he forwarded an attachment to an email that I did not recognize but was very similiar to his own(man's name in the email address).
Do you think he has another email account and he was forwarding to that one?
He is in all day lab at school so I cant really talk to him. I sent him an email telling him to send this woman an email and let me see it and show me this is somehow a misunderstanding