I really wanted to scream at him and ask him why he didn't feel like a scumbag when he was cheating on me, but I refrained.
He is still in the fog and I am less and less hopeful that we will be able to work this out...
I read a text saying that my h would rather not be involved, but he'd have to be the one who has to look at himself in the mirror. Really!? My pain isn't enough? The A wasn't enough?!
I understand his feelings, but still.
We are still trying to figure things out. I don't know what is going to happen. Think about what you need to stay, if you want. Don't let those go. Those are for you and your sanity.
Post here. We on this thread understand.
filed for D Oct. 15, served Dec 18
D final June 21, 2011
My FWH started his A the minute that we started trying for kids (Jan 08). While his A was peaking in his world, in my/our world I was taking my temperature every day, peeing on ovulation sticks, taking prenatal vitamins, going to acupuncture and eventually scheduling doctor appointments and fertility testing. We eventually found out that the reason we couldn’t get pregnant was because of male factor infertility – less than 3% of my H’s sperm are normally formed – our chances of getting pregnant naturally were slim to none.
I found out about the affair and the OC in April 09 (thanks to the OW) – 3 months after the OC was born, 1.25 years after we had started trying for kids, ½ way through an IUI cycle (artificial insemination w/ H’s sperm) and the exact same day that I was going to sign a contract for IVF (in case IUI didn’t work). Somehow after 5 rendezvous, my H and his defective sperm, managed to get the OW pregnant. Like you I was devastated – not only because he had broken my heart and completely f*#ked up our marriage, but also because he had completely thwarted my chances at motherhood – I felt like he had given her the one good sperm he had! Since I was ½ way through an IUI cycle, I still held out hope that in spite of the wreckage that my life had become – that I would AT LEAST be pregnant. No dice. The same day that I found out that the IUI had failed, was the same day that we got the OC’s paternity tests back. I was struck down with anger, rage, devastation, numbness, horror, even overwhelming hilarity at the ridiculous mess my life had become – I was 35 and I thought that my marriage was over and that I would never be a mother thanks to my asshole H – I mean, what were the chances of leaving him and finding someone else and starting a family in the next 5 years?!
And then, like you, I also found out in July 09 (3 months into the nightmare) that my brother’s GF was accidentally pregnant. She never thought she would have kids because she has horrible endometriosis – but surprise! She’s pregnant! In October 09 (6 months into nightmare) I found out that my BF was pregnant. Seemed like everyone was getting pregnant and I got an OC. It is hard enough to deal with infertility, but infertility and infidelity together – REALLY!!?? Come on!!??
Dealing with both situations is absolutely overwhelming… I can tell that you are in a very similar space to where I was. I felt like I won the shit lottery – 1 in a billion that the situation could play out this way, but here I was. Life was SO f*&king UNBELIEVEABLY UNFAIR! I don’t believe in God, but at the time I almost started to because it seemed like so many unlucky coincidences had annihilated my life – there had to be a reason. Maybe god was punishing me.
Eventually, I had to let the “why me?” go – because there are no answers to that question, and continuing to ask it only created more anger and frustration for me. Once I let that go, I was able to see a little more clearly and I realized I needed a gameplan to get control of my life. If my H wanted to be married to me then he had to be onboard with the gameplan. If not, see you later. I can’t remember when I got to this point – maybe 2 months in – but I had had enough of the mess he created, I was done and I didn’t want to live in the chaos anymore. It was either my way or the highway.
I don’t know if this will help you, but my gameplan was: (these were not the my boundaries – believe me, I wrote those out too!):
1. MC and IC for H – absolutely nonnegotiable.
2. Both of us commit to no major decisions for 6 months – no “staying together or splitting decisions”, no “motherhood”, IVF, no trying to get pregnant. Even though we weren’t going to make any decisions, I insisted that we would sleep under the same roof.
3. Get the OW out of our lives and solidify the CS logistics. In our case we decided to be NC with OC and OW. It was a tough decision but honestly I don’t think we could’ve done it any other way.
4. I took control of finances – kind of weird, but if we were going to be paying CS for the next 18 years, I wanted to ensure that our needs, and quality of life were not too negatively affected. I developed an aggressive financial plan to pay down our debt, develop 6 months of savings, and develop a workable monthly and annual budget – also, we needed to accommodate incremental MC and IC expenses.
5. In addition to the financial plan, H needed to get a second, part time job to bring cash into the house and cover monthly CS. My H is an executive in the financial industry – now he mows lawns, washes cars, and hauls junk on the weekends. He will continue to do this until our debt is paid off.
6. Develop estate plan, get life insurance policy to cover OC, etc. If something happened to H, I’ll be damned if I am left dealing with OW and OC on my own.
7. After 6 months reevaluate marriage and R progress, if things are looking good, start discussing future planning – finances, IVF, kids, etc.
At first my H accepted but resented the gameplan – after all I think a big part of the A was a delusion of living a carefree, unrestrained life with no consequences – and now there was structure and nothing BUT consequences. But in reality his life had spun completely out of control. And, I think that stressed really him out. Eventually the gameplan created order and relief in his life. It definitely wasn’t a cure all. I think months 6-8 were particularly bad, partly because we weren’t progressing as much as I hoped and FWH was still defiant about certain issues. Needless to say, at that point, I didn’t feel like I could decide whether to stay or split—so I just decided to wait a little bit longer. By month 9-10, his residual defensiveness finally went away – I think that he just got tired of fighting the process and that “giving up the fight” finally allowed him to accept full responsibility for what he had done. Don’t know if anyone else has experienced this but once that happened, I knew we were on getting to the other side of this.
Having a gameplan put order back in my life. It gave me control and it gave me some much needed mental space – I didn’t have to worry about whether I was going to stay or go, it gave me a break from trying to get pregnant (and the disappointment I felt month after month) and it helped me take one day at a time. It also separated my life from that of OW’s and OC – for the most part I didn’t think in terms of what she had and what I didn’t have (of course, there were some bad days – but in general I was able to maintain the separation).
Today, 13 months out– we have mostly good days, OW is (fingers crossed) out of the picture for the most part, finances are WAY better, we are done with MC (though H is still in IC), and we have finally embarked on IVF. It isn’t rainbows and unicorns but things are better. The silver lining of winning the shit-lottery is that a lot of things are better than they were before the A – esp. H, I think he is a much better, healthier, well-adjusted person. I will never say that the A/OC was a good thing, but we are on our way to being in a better place.
An A with an OC is the gift that keeps on giving and there are MANY struggles to face in the next 18 years (what do we tell our kids, our family, etc.) but today, things are calm and ok – that’s the most I can hope for.
I don’t know if any of this helps, but I just thought I would share my experience with you. At least to let you know that you are not alone and that there is a way through.
[This message edited by SurvivingInCA at 4:37 PM, April 26th (Monday)]
it does help. Wow. I didn't think ANYONE would or have been in pretty much the exact same situation! I am so sorry.
I think a game plan would help. I had set a couple of things as absolute and neccessary and he agreed, but I think laying it out with the no stay or go, perhaps that could help. I don't know. I am so confused and just am not sure. I think having a plan could help that and help me focus.
I just wish he would do what he is suppose to, you know? It isn't that he fights me, but sometimes he just gets "tired". We all do! UGH.
Thank you so much. You post really helped me today. Truly.
I am also in California....Nice to know you are "close"
[This message edited by Finesse026 at 7:58 PM, April 26th (Monday)]
Again, not sure if this helps, but what I realized is that it is very difficult for someone who has avoided (or hidden from) consequences most of their life to learn how to face up to them - indeed it is overwhelming and tiring - esp. under such intense circumstances. I think MC and IC really helped H with this. I think by month 8 (when I said he gave up a little) is when he realized there was only one way back to me and that was to start cleaning his shit up! The more he did it, the better off we ended up doing - so I think he started to see immediate results for his actions - its a give and take. It took a long time for him to be motivated, but he eventually got there. For me, I can't make him DO anything but I can tell him what I need. Now he is motivated to meet my needs because he sees that they are real (again, MC helped with this).
fWH let OW guide our lives for so long about OC. Since he refused to go legal w/CS until after A#3, fWH always pretended we had to be nice & agreeable w/OW, so he could get visitation & she wouldn't sue for CS. She was pulling one over on him though...she made >both our incomes combined many years. I think it would've been much better to get the CS & custody thing resolved up-front. But, he was so foggy about her...still "in love" with her. I just don't know why he didn't leave (well, I'd guess it was the 3-yr-old & newborn we had, when their plans of a pregnancy with OC were achieved). He used to say "don't call her anymore, she might get upset & lose the baby." If I'd have known he was still going over to see her weekly to "check" on her (but no sex)...then, I'd have kicked him out....she had no home, what would he have done...moved in w/OW's mother & young stepfather? I'm sure I could've secured alimony & CS, but even getting joint custody would've been a battle...and, ILs would've made me move the double-wide mobile home.
Surviving: you're #5 demand is so funny...I'd often thought fWH should get 2nd job to pay CS & OC expenses, but then I'd just be taking care of 3 kids alone even more. When they were all small, OW was dating BH#2 and we'd have OC 3-4 full days/nights or more each week. And fWH worked graveyard. 2 being bottlefed (or formula in cup), 2 in diapers, one in pullups pottytraining before school started.
I don't know what it was Saturday, but it hit me "it's been 10 years since fWH got OW pregnant." This time in 2000, he was pretending to be a good father/husband...I was nursing a newborn DS10...I thought OW was finally out-of-picture (they just took the EA/PA underground). He was coming home holding our baby, snuggling DS13, and what I thought was making love 2 me daily...when, he was also making plans & executing them w/her to start a 2nd family with her. To do whatever concerning a home for her (she had moved out of apartment she was renting for A#1 after she left BH#1 & D him). I cannot imagine they didn't have some plan.
My worst fear, is that he was planning on D me, proving me unfit, getting full custody of COM (DS10/DS13), and marrying OW before OC was born. He won't admit to any plans concerning her, but I cannot see the man I married, just having a child w/someone & only seeing OC periodically (not daily). I had no clue whatsoever about OC or OW's continued contact. I knew they were "friends" which really hurt, but a planned pregnancy was only my worst nightmare (actually had nightmare about it & it was true and I didn't know it!).
I mentioned to fWH that I was triggering (in not so many words)...he said "I felt that way too today about something you did years ago. You need to drop it."
I suppose I'm supposed to be "over it" again....like so many EA/PAs before. I'm not over it. EA/PA#3 just slashed open my scars & cut them even deeper. All the new revelations about OC's birth & what was going on w/OW. I don't know if I can ever get over all this.
I did want R3...I don't want to be w/out fWH. I just don't know how to get past everything. I am becoming a bitter middleaged woman...I did not want to be this person I am now. How can I get "me" back?
I always had so much anger over the $$$ that fWH spent on CS & then the $$$ we had to spend on OC when she was home w/us (which was >50% time when she was tiny). I know it's just $$$, but my kids could've had the "best" of things & a real house (one that isn't on 2 hitches & wheels). A mom who wasn't a basketcase sometimes.
AND, then fWH got hurt and so much $$$ is spent on medical stuff. fWH did not need a motorcycle...he was already expending $400+ on OC, then another ~$300 on that stupid bike & ~350 on his truck and >$120 monthly on tobacco. All that time, OW was getting CS when fWH was making so much less than her. ALL that time, we were on the brink of bankruptcy due to his medical that first year & being on 60% pay for short-term disability. OW still let fWH believe that she needed $$$ for OC. She let us miss 1 payment & they pay 2nd month about 2 weeks late. Then, she kept whining that OC wanted to spend time w/her Daddy. Here I was, a man just learning to use wheelchair, all sorts of medical issues, shoulder surgery, 4-10 appts per month & physical therapy 1-2 times weekly (30+min drive & fWH couldn't drive). We fucking struggled for >1 year to keep our family afloat...and here that GOD DAMN woman was taking $400 monthly from our household and she was pulling in >$70,000 annually and her BH#2 was also working. HOW could fWH betray me again w/OW...knowing what our family went through for him & also for OC? HOW COULD OW be so important to him, all the time I was wiping his fucking ass, bathing his illigitimate child, trying to keep the house somewhat clean (when MIL was bitching the whole time that I wasn't cleaning enough when she came down 2-5 times daily without an invite)? How was our own family COM & me, so unimportant yet again...to make whatever plans he & OW had cooked up for a future whatever they might have together w/OC? I just don't get it.....has fWH lost his DAMN mind? Then that stupid BITCH texting me "Keep praying. fWH loves me." I do go to church & GOD forgive me for the language, but HOW do I show a Christian attitude toward either of them? How do I even think about staying w/someone who repeatedly throws away the love I give him? AND, how do I put up with a terror of an OC, when I have two DS to worry about also?
How do I just get OW to go away & everything get back to the way I imagined it was, pre-OC? How do I keep fWH for myself, with OC involved? Yes, I admit it, I am jealous of the time OC takes away from our M and the time fWH should be able to spend w/DSx2.
Why couldn't fWH & OW just've walked away, after EA/PA#1? Why couldn't fWH cherish the gift I gave him (DS10) as proof that I wanted M & R? Why weren't our two DS enough for him? WHY oh WHY did he NEED OC so badly, that he jeopardized everything else to give OC to OW? What is so special about OW, that he did not already have @home with me & COM?
P.S. now he's acting like I'm some tramp because I kissed & did some things w/boys b4 I met him....I didn't know I'd ever meet a man like him, that I'd want to spend my life with. I was living-it-up, enjoying the attention. AND, just because my plans fell through to lose my virginity w/someone else b4 him, that doesn't take away from the fact that fWH was my first & only! Now, he is second-guessing that special once-in-a-lifetime event for me. Almost like what he & OW did was "more special" because she really LOVED him (probably even b4 she had sex w/him @party at her BH#1s request). I didn't know fWH well & wasn't sure of my feelings, when I gave him that gift...I had never loved someone before. WHY is OW more special than me? Why did he need OC?
I'm sorry guys....I keep saying it, but I think I need IC again. I just hate spending time away from work & spending $$$ on myself. And, I'm sorry for the language....I just get so angry at fWH & OW for making us go through this.
Nothing will ever make this right. Nothing about what he's done to our M can be fixed. You cannot fix the past & all the lies that he's coming clean on, just make the past even worse. He is rewriting my storybook M, one resolved lie @a time. I was so naive....so stupid to think that I was the "only one."
Finesse - I think Surviving has some wonderful advice in her game plan. Maybe that would be beneficial to you.
Repeat - I think you are right that IC would be good for you now. Instead of thinking of it like you are spending money on yourself, think of it as spending money for your family and COM. They need a healthy, happy mommy.
Yesterday was an interesting day for me. H & I had to go to OW's town for a dr appt. I'm having some issues with my pregnancy and my regular ob/gyn wanted me to see a specialist. So H called OW Sunday to let her know that he'd be there and that he'd like to see OC (who he hasn't seen in almost 3 years). Well, OW had to work during the time that we had available (H didn't tell her why we were there, but that I had to work).
She wanted him to go to her house and hang out with her and OC while I was "at work." Uh - no thanks. :) She couldn't believe that after 3 years I still wasn't okay with it. Even if I was, I needed him at my dr appt, but no I'm not okay with it. He said to her "you are right it has only been 3 years and that is not enough time for her to be comfortable with it." I was so glad that he said that without me having to prompt him. :)
So, we arranged it to see OC at her sitter's house. We were worried that the sitter wouldn't be nice to us considering the circumstances, but she was wonderful. OC didn't want to go with us (we were going to take her shopping and to get some ice cream), so sitter let us hang out at her house for a while. We stayed for about an hour.
OC was very shy with H - she doesn't like him much. But she remembered me from December/January and sat with me a little. She would sit by H if I was there. H was trying to play with and talk to her, but she wasn't responding to much. But it is a start if this is something that he wants to continue. I'm still leaving it up to him, but he is torn as to what it best for her, best for COM, etc.
Even if he does have C with OC, he is afraid he is going to be doing more harm than good. It just isn't possible right now due to $$ to make that drive more than once every two to three months. He is trying to get that other job, but if he does get it he will be working close to 60 hours/week. It would be very difficult when is short on time as well. He doesn't want to tell COM until he is 100% sure he wants to continue pursuing this. But in the meantime, he doesn't want to spend the little bit of time he does have with COM with OC instead. He is also struggling because he doesn't know how to act around OC. He doesn't have a bond with her or even know what she likes or dislikes.
So still lots of questions around here. Good news for me was that I didn't have that pit in the bottom of my stomach at all this time. It really didn't bother me. A HUGE step for me if H decides to have C with OC.
That is sad & a little comical about OC not wanting to be around H. But, she is behaving like she should around someone she knows as a "stranger."
Does OW know about you being expectant?
Even though I knew I would never give fWH his first child, I always thought COM would be his last....I still almost wish I could reverse my tubal & give him his "last" child. Territorial feelings I guess.
you are right it has only been 3 years and that is not enough time for her to be comfortable with it.
I think he deserved a big kiss for that one....without prompting too.
It is good that you can have some distance from OW/OC, since you still aren't quite comfortable revealing OC's existence to COM.
Having the visit at a neutral location without OW, was a fortunate thing. Maybe it can remain that way, when fWH chooses to see OC.
She does not know about our little bean, and I'd like to keep it that way for at least a little while yet. While it was a surprise to us, that was one of the things my H commented on. He was glad his last would be with me and not OC.
I was really glad to not have OW there. I wasn't thrilled about going to this sitters house, but it worked out really well. Assuming we keep going forward, the hope is that eventually OC will be comfortable going places with us - park/store/etc. I do think her not being there is what helped me to feel better. She just gives me the willies!
On the way home we were talking about what he was thinking/future etc. I asked about bringing her to our home and he said maybe at some point in the future we could have her for a weekend or some time in the summer. But not until she was quite a bit older.
My big reason for not sharing all of this with our COM is in case he decides not to proceed. Once he introduces OC as their sibling, we can't take her away. I want to cause the least amount of heartache as possible for everyone.
And he did get a big kiss for what he said - I really feel like he has turned a corner in understanding and openess regarding all of it. We have come a long way in the past few months.
Repeat - as far as trusting your H - I'm not sure that I could ever REALLY trust him. Without A#3 maybe it is possible, but I'm just not sure. I told H yesterday that I'll probably never trust him (or any man) 100% ever again. If there is no way for you to verify that he is being honest with you regarding OW, it would be incredibly difficult to believe 100%. My motto for a long time was trust but verify.
This is "the" thing that looms over me should H and I have COMs and I am just not sure how to handle it. I realize that it is a loooong time from now, but as you gals can see - I am a bit of a planner!
My biggest fear is that my future COMs will think that their childhood was some kind of lie.
As far as telling COM, when the time comes, we will just sit them down and explain that daddy made some mistakes when we lived in former city, and he made a baby with another lady. So they have a new sibling, OC and probably just let them ask questions. A lot will depend on their ages at the time. I also want to make sure that they know that mommy and daddy still love each other and that we aren't splitting up. That is one of the reasons that I'd like to wait until they are older though. I hope that they are old enough to understand why we did what we did. I'm not looking forward to that day at all.
my 14month old was just sick for 4 days. i had to take two days off of work and care for her a LOT. it was just an ear infection, a regular mommy moment. but today is her first day back at daycare and i've cried half the day away just because i can. i cried half the day in front of her yesterday. that is SO unlike me.
i can't stop keep thinking, "i'm falling apart." wtf? i'm the strong one, everybody says so. when does "crying it out" turn into a medical condition? i'm kind of joking there and kind of not.
i joked on facebook this morning that i couldn't back to sleep last night because i couldn't quiet my mind...that it's busy and loud in there, just the way i imagine women's prison to be.
i'm joking and joking and crying and crying. it feels new all over again. someone tell me this will change again soon.
life must be rich and full of loving--it's no good otherwise, no good at all, for anyone - j. kerouac
Every morning I wake up and think that I can't believe this is happening... my life wasn't supposed to be like this. :(
I think that the I-can't-believe-this-is-my-life "wake up moments" went away at around 9 months in - I think that this coincided with letting some "life" back into my world. I also think that this is when I finally accepted this new reality. It also helped that we got a kitty, and now he wakes me up every morning by cuddling next to me. He has definitely helped take the morning edge off!
When I can't sleep or find myself up in the middle of the night, I do find myself thinking about it and sometimes shocked by it--but that is usually when I get sucked into other problem solving things whether its work, family issues, or money. In those moments I use meditation techniques to detach from those thoughts and "let them go". Usually, this seems to help.
[This message edited by SurvivingInCA at 12:41 PM, April 28th (Wednesday)]
About 9 months after d-day, H and I had a very deep conversation and I got a lot of answers. I think that really put my mind at ease. But I'm not sure if I could have handled hearing some of it much earlier.
I still have a hard time with triggers, but they don't last near as long (a few hours rather than a few days). After I got past the default thought, it still got bad once a month during my hormonal time. But the past 6-12 months have just been when there was a trigger. I can actually listen to almost any song without getting upset.
Just spoke to WBF... I think he pretty much put the nail in the coffin for us. There is stuff about OW/OC situation that he is witholding. I told him this would be so much easier if he could commit to R with me, and then we can work through this together. He said that this is HIS problem, not OURS and therefore he is justified in not telling me everything.
Right now, I am left wondering why I even want to R with someone like this... I guess I am too scared of being alone and realizing that the last 12 years of my life were a waste. :(
Whalers- your WBF behavior sounds a lot like the A behavior of "protecting" you by keeping secrets. What he should really understand is his decisions affect you and your M. Secrets don't make anything better. Secrets and lies kept the A alive, truth and transparency keep the M and R alive.
My FWH had a hard time with this, he felt he had to keep everything in, not talk about his feelings. All the time I felt stonewalled, shut out and like he did not trust me with his feelings. He could talk about anything to OW? Why not me? MC told FWH that his choice to not tell me things took away my choices to make informed decisions. He could not control if I was upset, (and I have tried to control my anger so that he will open up more) but he could choose to let me in.
I am a planner, and I would ask FWH a lot of questions about OC future, visits etc and FWH would say "I don't know" and I would get frustrated like he wasn't even thinking about this, in denial etc. Really, FWH did not know, his brain was full of a million things at once and he couldn't really decide on a plan. When paternity test came in, FWH had to organize his thoughts and get together a game plan. I took to writing things down until he was to the point plans were being made.
Please take care of you, work on your healing, self esteem, set your priorities and plans and don't feel you have to base your life/future on his decisions. Hope this helps.