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User Topic: BS Questions for WS's IV
BaxtersBFF
♂ Member
Member # 26859
Default  Posted: 9:46 PM, March 2nd (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

icbtih8,

both our love languages is words of affirmation...however, when he said he started talking to them, he had already cheated and was deep in fantasy land. based on other things he told me, it seems like he thought i did loving acts out of obligation or for some alterior motive...
he also said that he felt i was putting him on a pedestal. as someone whose love language is words of affirmation, what kind of balance do you think there should be between too little and too much?
I can only give examples from my own experience...I have a bad habit of fishing for words of affirmation from BW. She gives them to me even when I am not fishing, but I go through these phases when I need more. Then there are times when she feels that she is giving words of affirmation but I perceive it as her coming to my rescue or defending me. Typically these are work situations and I am just venting. She will step in and be indignant on my behalf. At those times I get irritated and check out of the conversation because I am not looking for that from her. But she does it because she sees it as a loving act.

I am guessing that with you and your WH, there is a communication problem. At some point you give him more than he needs and he neglects to tell you. Also, words of affirmation may not cover all areas. Meaning I tend to appreciate words of affirmation related to my physical appearance more than other things like how well I have done on a project. Your WH has to tell you when enough is enough.

The sense of duty comment may just be a cop-out on his part.


WH - 44
BW - gerrygirl

Posts: 6052 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Boise
TICKED OFF
♀ Member
Member # 8291
Default  Posted: 10:40 PM, March 2nd (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I will say this again and again and again.........you WS's on this forum that take the time to answer our questions are really awesome to do so. Your answers do help. Thank you.

Posts: 2389 | Registered: Sep 2005
BrokenRoad
♀ Member
Member # 15334
Default  Posted: 10:50 PM, March 2nd (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi. Just poking my nose in to say I've started checking this thread. (waves)


{Him}FBH - 43 (WifeHad5)
{Me} FWW - 43
2 kids 7 & 12
Reconciled :)
Beauty and folly are old companions.--Benjamin Franklin

Posts: 10425 | Registered: Jul 2007 | From: Midwest
Fallen
♀ Member
Member # 4313
Default  Posted: 11:36 PM, March 2nd (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks, TO.

And thanks, BR, for helping.


You can't heal what you won't feel.

"There would be no grand absolution, only forgiveness meted out in these precious sips. It would well up from his heart in spoonfuls, and he would feed it to me. And it would be enough."


Posts: 23475 | Registered: May 2004
HUFI-PUFI
♂ Member
Member # 25460
Default  Posted: 12:04 AM, March 3rd (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

TICKED OFF - Does a WS truly believe that they can cheat on their spouse and then come back to a happy marriage R or not? I am the BS, but if I were the WS, I don't think I would expect to have a happy marriage or at least a special marriage after I had cheated. It just doesn't seem logical or reasonable. If this is the case, does the WS just become content with what the BS can now offer them in the marriage or do they stay for other reasons?

I canít presume to speak for all WS in specific but I would think that in general, WSís donít think they can just waltz back into a happy marriage in the days after the A, they might hope to but I donĎt think they expect to.

I can imagine that if a WS has a history of affairs that he has successfully covered up and/or bamboozled his BS about, then yes, perhaps that particular WS might think that he can get away with it. But on average, no, IMHO, most of the remorseful WSís fully understand that they will not be able to come back to the ďsame old happy marriageĒ that existed prior to the A.

I donít thin that most WSís expect to go back to having a happy marriage after the A like it never happened before. think that most WSís simply hope they can eventually renew or recreate a new marriage that is a happy one after the process of reconciliation.

In my case, I knew at some level or the other in my head and heart that my marriage as I knew it was dead when I embarked on the A and for sure, I knew that my previously happy marriage was dead when I saw the hurt and devastation in my wifeís eyes when the A was discovered.

Given my particular circumstances, I donít take anything for granted and I donít expect anything. But I confess I do hope and pray that my second chance at renewing and rebuilding my marriage will work out.

How can I blindly expect to walk back into the same-same marriage now that I know that it takes 2-5 years on the R road to get past the hurt? I know that we need to address the pre-A issues before we can start to rebuild the trust. I know I have to fix myself before we repair us. I know that this is a work in progress and so, there are no blind expectations. The old marriage is dead, weíre working on a new one right now. I seriously did not expect to have a wife and marriage after d-day. I expected that she would leave. I am eternally happy that she gave me a second chance.

Similar to what BaxtesBFF said, there are no expectations but there is a hope that exists within me. I hold onto a hope, a prayer inside me that we can craft a new marriage. I say a new one because I recognize that the foundation of the old one don\t exist anymore. I understand that s not the affair itself but the loss of trust and respect from the first that has destroyed it totally and because I truly do love my wife, I want to still be married to her and live my life with her. .

But I do want more than a relationship. I want a marriage and I want it with the full emotional commitment that we had in the first one, albeit a smarter, wiser one this time around. Its hard to put it in words but I know what I mean. Earlier, I said that I am hoping and praying for a good marriage but its not really a accurate description for what I am doing. Its not just a matter of hoping and praying. I am also actively working on trying to make our new marriage into a happy one.

I donít want to merely be content in my marriage, not for myself and not for my wife. I want us to be happy in our marriage. I know its too early now to expect a sea of happiness in our marriage, for us, 8 months out, the pain is still too strong and fresh in her heart. I have not earned her trust and respect yet. Weíre struggling to reach intimacy with being on the opposite sides of the planet. But I would hope and expect that somewhere, at some time, we both find happiness once more in our new marriage. I wouldnít wish a unhappy and unloving relationship on anyone and especially not for my BS.

The reasons that a WS stays in a marriage can be as complex as why a BS stays with their WS. It can be a matter of money or children ties. It can be because theyíre afraid of moving on or they're content with what they have. Perhaps they stay out of love. Its all very individual and youíre the only one that can answer that in regards to your own marriage.

All I know is that that Iím working towards crafting a new marriage and I want it to be a happy fulfilling one, not just one that I or her will settle for.

HUFI


Donít listen to your head, itís easily confused. Donít listen to your heart, its fickle. Listen to your soul, God doesn't steer you wrong.

Posts: 3218 | Registered: Sep 2009 | From: Azilda, Northern Ontario
Megpie
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Member # 24358
Default  Posted: 6:10 AM, March 3rd (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I am looking for some input from WS.

FWH's A was 6 months of sexual emails and 2 ONS with his XW. They have been divorced for 15 years. They had an extrememly bitter and hateful divorce, XW has successfuly alienated FWH from 2 of his 3 D over the course of the last 3 years. 2 years ago the youngest D got very ill and FWH and his XW spent many days and nights in the hospital together, which ultimately ended with him opening a secret email account and the A beginning. He ended it but never told me about the A. His XW told me 13/04/09, about 6 months after it ended. She did not tell me out of remorse or guilt - only out of a desire to further try to destroy our M. She has done this since we first met. XW has un-diagnosed borderline personality disorder. We have seen a cousleor off and on for the past 4 years to try and help us learn how to deal with her and the parental alienation.

After DDay we started to see the C again, mostly together, but occasionally on our own. We were both committed to R right from the beginning. FWH has been NC since DDay and only had contact with her once after it ended and before DDay.

Before DDay FWH's drinking was not an issue - he liked his beer but not to excess. He drinks nothing except beer. After DDay he started drinking more, 2-3 beers maybe 5 nights out of 7. He would sometimes go out and really tie one on. He would spend money we couldn't afford when he did this. He ahs enver missed work due to his drinking but it is definitly a bone of contention for us. MY XH was an alcoholic - it destroyed our marriage and FWH knows this.

Yesterday he started drinking in the afternoon and then went to a neighborhood pub to "get a jag on" (his words). He knew how upset I was - he accused me of trying to control him. He came several hours later, smashed, slurring his words, unsteady and stinking of beer. He disgusts and repulses me when he's like this.

In our last MC session together (Dec/09)his drinking came up - he admitted to our C that he thinks about drinking every day even if he doesn't do it. He admitted that it is a big issue between us. MC said that only he could decide if he wanted to do anything about it - knowing full well that his grandfather and older brother are alcoholics. After that session FWH decided he had "changed as much as he could" and decided not to go back. I ahve continued to see MC 1-2 x month on my own. I realize I can't force him to do anything about it.

Other than the increased drinking R has been going well - he is completely honest and transparent, always listens when I need to talk and will discuss anything with me.

Is it common for WS to start drinking more or using drugs to help them numb what they've done? Do you have any advice for me on how I should handle it? Does it eventually stop? (I don't believe that) Are there things I could do differently?

Thanks very much


Me - BS - 54
Him - WS - 40
OW - his ex wife (divorced for 15 years)
Married 10 years, together 14
Blended family, no kids at home
D-Day - 13/04/09
R-Day - 13/04/09

Posts: 634 | Registered: Jun 2009 | From: Atlantic Canada
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 7:31 AM, March 3rd (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

TO -

Does a WS truly believe that they can cheat on their spouse and then come back to a happy marriage r or not?

Depends on when you asked me this question. During the A, I was so deep in a fog that I had tuned out the impact on the M altogether (or I wouldn't have screwed up so badly in the first place). So the question wasn't even in my mind.

On D-day and shortly after, the answer would have been no. I committed to R because I knew it was the right choice and because my BW deserved to have my best effort made on her behalf. But back then I felt there was no way to fully recover and that the best we could do was to heal to a point where we could both find some level of happiness again.

Today, some 2-1/2+ years out, I know that we can have a happily ever after type of M again. It required a number of things to happen. My BW had to be willing to give me the chance in the first place. I had to work on myself and bring myself back to the person I should have been for her all along. We had to be dedicated enough to ride out the roller coaster and have a common goal we were willing to work toward together. As a result of a lot of hard work by both of us, and a huge capacity to forgive within my BW, we now have an amazing marriage. In some ways, it's stronger and deeper than it was before the A. And don't think that one day goes by that I am not thankful for the gift my BW shared of working toward R.


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 7:52 AM, March 3rd (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Megpie -

Is it common for WS to start drinking more or using drugs to help them numb what they've done? Do you have any advice for me on how I should handle it? Does it eventually stop? (I don't believe that) Are there things I could do differently?

Across the board I don't think so. In your case, you're dealing with separate issues in the A and alcoholism. The impact of the A may have triggered your FWH's drinking, but the core cause would be alcoholism. Until that issue is resolved, there isn't much else you could do to change things.

Are you going to Al-Anon? If not, they could possible help you sort this out and develop some next steps.


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
nlovemyfamily
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Member # 15258
Default  Posted: 7:59 AM, March 3rd (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I posted this in General but would love to get feedback from WS.

I can't help but to anger over the idea that WS defile the intention and meaning and worth of Love! They use the word love as the motivation to leave M and Families. They hang on the word love to excuse their monstrous behavior. It minimizes what real love in a marriage entails and sacrifices for. If they call it Love than what was the giving and sacrifice and selflessness in our M?


Posts: 415 | Registered: Jul 2007 | From: nj
nlovemyfamily
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Member # 15258
Default  Posted: 8:01 AM, March 3rd (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

posting this here as well as nin general to get more feedback from FWS.
A's are the drug of choice for the most selfish of behaviors.
Can anyone especially FWS comment on the A representing going toward someone to help you enjoy and experience your selfish tendencies? My XWH said he was not moving away from me but moving toward something else. I now realize he was moving away from M requiring selflessness and pure devotion with someone who loves you flaws, warts and all. I feel he moved toward someone who could engage him and validate his selfishness and make him feel its is an ok thing to take care and look out for yourself before your spouse and family. Any wisdom from post foggy FWS?

Posts: 415 | Registered: Jul 2007 | From: nj
BaxtersBFF
♂ Member
Member # 26859
Default  Posted: 9:15 AM, March 3rd (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

nlovemyfamily,

I think I can combine my response to fit both of your questions.

Yes, while in the fog and coming out of it, the WS typically will use the word Love as the reason to leave the M. What is often mentioned here, what FWS and BS alike try to explain to new WS that come on the board is that they are experiencing limerance, not love. They are only experiencing the fun and exciting side of things and don't have to deal with the day to day stuff of the M. It becomes easy to look at both the limerance of the A and the love of the M and decide that the limerance is the way to go. In my sitch, I felt very self righteous about the "love" that I felt toward OW. I felt I hadn't received love like that from my BW for so long that it was about damn time I did what I needed and pursue love from the OW. This appeared and was very selfish, but I had talked myself into believing I had the right to get this love. While in the fog, there really is little chance of getting a WS to see this. Once the fog starts to lift, it is still a struggle to get a WS to admit how screwed up their thinking was during the A.

A's are the drug of choice for the most selfish of behaviors.
Can anyone especially FWS comment on the A representing going toward someone to help you enjoy and experience your selfish tendencies?
I can feel your pain in this question and I am sorry for that, but this is a generalization. I think selfishness is only one small part of what is going on with addiction type activities or experiences. Selfishness comes out during the A, but the WS can talk themselves into believing just about anything to minimize the appearance of selfishness. The real reasons for the A are usually much deeper than that and have to do with issues in the WS, not the BS. I know you know this.

It sounds like your XWH moved on before he started coming out of the fog. His line about not moving away from you and moving toward something else is a load of crap.


WH - 44
BW - gerrygirl

Posts: 6052 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Boise
UnexpectedSong
♀ Member
Member # 21761
Default  Posted: 9:49 AM, March 3rd (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

nlovemyfamily -

I can't help but to anger over the idea that WS defile the intention and meaning and worth of Love! They use the word love as the motivation to leave M and Families.

Ouch. That hurts.

Some of us never used the word "love" as the reason for the affair. I knew the difference.

Having said that... Which is worse? To destroy a marriage for something meaningless (like I did) or for "love"?

Can anyone especially FWS comment on the A representing going toward someone to help you enjoy and experience your selfish tendencies?

That is too many flowery words. He only needs to say "I was selfish".


WW(SA)
"Feedback is the breakfast of champions." - Boris Becker

Posts: 6046 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: California
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 10:00 AM, March 3rd (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

nlove - I responded to the selfish aspect in your General post. I'll let my answer stand there.

As for the meaning of love, I would say for me that I felt love but did not fully understand it until after the work I did following my A. That doesn't mean it didn't exist. In fact, I fully believe that without deep love on the part of both my BW and myself, our M would never have survived my A.

Again, it comes down to actions versus words. It was important to me for a while to ensure that I never just said "I love you" after the A to my BW, but that I said "I love you because...". She still challenges me sometimes on things I will say to her. Last night I told her that I love and admire her. She asked me why admire. The answer is that I look at how strong she has been throughout our M and I am wowed by how much she gives. By how she functioned as a defacto single parent while I had my head up my butt. By how she found the strength to ultimately forgive me. She has shown me time and time again how a life is supposed to be lived. And I continue to strive to match her heart, spirit and character.

My hope is that my actions of love now match the words I use to express it.


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
m334455
♀ Member
Member # 26893
Default  Posted: 10:17 AM, March 3rd (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Here is my question: how can I make my WH feel less old? He's 8 years older than me -- his sister has a grandchild who is older than 3 of our kids. The OW was a college classmate of his and made him feel young, even though she's nearly his age. I try not to do anything to make him feel old -- but you know, our glory days (so to speak) were in different decades. We don't always get the same cultural references. I was in 4th grade when he graduated from high school. I had no idea until we started talking about the A that it was such an issue for him. We usually hang out with his friends more than mine because he says he feels old with my friends, even though none of them see him that way. I'm frustrated. Any ideas? I'm not super-young anymore anyway; I'm in my mid- 30's


BW 38, 5 kids
Dday Dec. 2009

Posts: 4034 | Registered: Dec 2009
HUFI-PUFI
♂ Member
Member # 25460
Default  Posted: 10:38 AM, March 3rd (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

((m334455)) - How can I make my WH feel less old?

Tell your husband to act his age!

If youíre in your mid 30ís and he is only 8 years old, that makes him a whole 43 years old. I could only wish I was just 43 again!

8 years is not a big deal. My wife and I have 10 years difference. Hell, I recall hearing the phrase cradle robber when I started to go out with my wife. In fact, sometimes I tease my wife that I might have seen her in a baby stroller when I was a young boy walking down the road.

BTW, there was 8 years difference between my mom and dad. My twin brother also had 10 years difference with his first wife and again, a 10 year difference from his second wife too. And no, that age difference had absolutely nothing to do with his divorce.

IMHO, whether thereís an age gap of 10 years or 8 years, itís not the actual age that determines how old you feel. Itís you and your attitude to life.

HUFI

DECIDE - CHOOSE - COMMIT -PERIOD.

Edited to add details ...

[This message edited by HUFI-PUFI at 8:09 PM, March 3rd (Wednesday)]


Donít listen to your head, itís easily confused. Donít listen to your heart, its fickle. Listen to your soul, God doesn't steer you wrong.

Posts: 3218 | Registered: Sep 2009 | From: Azilda, Northern Ontario
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 1:24 PM, March 3rd (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

m334455 -

how can I make my WH feel less old?

No one can "make" us feel old. It is a choice we make inside ourselves. This issue is about your WH not facing his reality.

What will he do when he's 50? When he's 60? Still try to hang with 20-somethings? They'll really love conversations with him about his prostrate surgery or battles with gout!

If there are certain activities he enjoys that you are preventing him from experiencing, you can talk through those. But that's a function of interests - not age.

I'd say the best thing you can do for him is to encourage him to speak with an IC about why he feels he needs someone else to help him feel younger or older instead of being able to decide for himself how old he feels.


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
heartache101
♀ Member
Member # 26465
Default  Posted: 4:50 PM, March 3rd (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

WS out there thank YOU for answering these post. I know it is not easy to be constantly hit with the negative. WE BS need your input sooo much.. Thank YOU!!


There are degrees to which you let people back into your life and degrees to which you let them back into your heart-which, of course, are not the same thing

Posts: 3141 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Indiana
JW123
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Member # 21265
Default  Posted: 3:56 AM, March 4th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Firstly I would like to express my sincere appreciation to those W'S who come here and help us B'S make sense of this. I have respect for you.

My question as I am triggering all over the place today as it is my 15th wedding anniversary (we are divorcing as he has chosen OP over me) is WHY no remorse? He was my best friend, my lover, my everything. Why did he find it so easy to walk away from us and to show no remorse? Why is he so angry towards ME? Is he even thinking about our anniversary today, does he hurt too? I miss him, I miss our marriage. He just could not let her go and she would not walk away either.


Him (WS)41
Me (BS) 41
3 beautiful children
D -Day 13 October 2008
He moved out - 1st June 2009.
Divorced - 29/11/2011
He lives with OP now
Married 15 years. Known him 21 years
(Although I suspected, denial is quite a thing)

Posts: 483 | Registered: Oct 2008
BaxtersBFF
♂ Member
Member # 26859
Default  Posted: 8:26 AM, March 4th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

JW123,

I am sorry that you are in such pain right now. Your STBXWH never came out of the fog. The anger is a defense mechanism. If the OP would walk away, there is a chance that he might start coming out of his fog, but there is nothing you can do to make that happen. I am guessing here, but I don't think it is as easy for him as it may appear. I almost did what your H is doing and I remember having an inner turmoil going on that was consuming me. But the A felt so good, so right at that time, that it made it possible for me to think it would be okay to get a D and that everyone would be just fine. The anger came from BW not understanding this point of view which I then twisted into "once again she is not giving me what I want" attitude.

I don't know what makes some WS leave without coming out of their fog, but as you can see in many threads here, it happens all too often.

Sorry,


WH - 44
BW - gerrygirl

Posts: 6052 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Boise
m334455
♀ Member
Member # 26893
Default  Posted: 10:18 AM, March 4th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'd say the best thing you can do for him is to encourage him to speak with an IC about why he feels he needs someone else to help him feel younger or older instead of being able to decide for himself how old he feels.

That's good advice. He's been preventing himself (during the A) from doing some things he enjoys. I've been encouraging him to take them back up. Like, he's gotten season tickets to a sports team he likes for years and the past few years he's moped on the couch rather than going to games -- this year his buddies and I made sure he didn't miss those games (and his buddies, god bless them, made sure I knew he was really with them too. They're good friends. I think he's one of those "avoid your friends during the A" types and they're glad to have him back too.)


BW 38, 5 kids
Dday Dec. 2009

Posts: 4034 | Registered: Dec 2009
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