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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: BS Questions for WS's IV
Allgoodnamesgone
♀ Member
Member # 26157
Default  Posted: 9:13 AM, March 18th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Wow! Thank you Card. Am I living in fear? Yes I am. I've told him 3x it's over & each time I changed my mind within 24 hours. (I realize this is to be avoided - I did mean it each time, but I just couldn't take the sadness of being without him).
I know he sounds like a real jerk - but he's a good dad & we've been together since we were teenagers & it's very hard for me to imagine life without him. (Not that I'm suicidal - but you know what I mean).
It was hard for me to read some of the things you wrote - but it's something I needed to hear.
Does he know he has me? Yes -tho he knows I've been more guarded & pessimistic about our reconciliation - that's why he's agreed to do the ic/mc.
He called this morning to tell me he over-reacted. We will just have to see where this goes. I'm meeting with his ic on Mon to give my perspective (ic's suggestion).
Thank you again Card - it was a tough morning.


Me- BS
DDay- 8/26/09
Separated after failed R effort.

Posts: 2165 | Registered: Nov 2009
Card
♂ Member
Member # 23667
Default  Posted: 9:43 AM, March 18th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

{{{{{Allgoodnamesgone}}}}}


WH (me)
BS (her)

D-Days April - Oct. 2007 Recovery started Nov. 2007

"Found Myself", I was right there in my shoes all along!
Search for self called off!

Why Repentance Is Necessary? Because Undeserved Mercy Empowers Entitlement/Sin


Posts: 570 | Registered: Apr 2009
heartache101
♀ Member
Member # 26465
Default  Posted: 10:01 AM, March 18th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Alrighty folks WS chime in please.

My WS is bulking at wanting to call me and let me know where he is. Why? Well he doesn't feel he needs to it is really none of my business. But if I leave my office I best let him know where I am at? Alright first this really smells.
He has outside job and travels 3 counties. IF he wants to sleep with someone it is going to happen. Period I have no control I know this. I don't sit and worry about it daily or hourly.

Second here folks I have finally put myself into counseling.YaY. He knows this. Why is he threatened? I mean really upset about me going to counseling for me. I told him it is for me to deal with my Rage issues. No I am not violent but god knows I want to beat the crap out of him and the OW. I need to let the past go. I am working on that. When I say past I mean past not him. But his statement. Well I guess you will find out I am the reason for all your problems and leave me. Nothing good comes out of counseling. My reply to him.
Look Mr. you are putting way too much importance on yourself. This is not about you I need to fix me. I have issues are you blind? He did not comment.
Anywho.
If he told me he needed or wanted counseling I sure wouldn't act all OMG your going to leave me. I would be concerned deeply about his well being. Soooo this I do not get. At all.

Thank You for your help SI WS!! You are sooo appreciated.


There are degrees to which you let people back into your life and degrees to which you let them back into your heart-which, of course, are not the same thing

Posts: 3141 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Indiana
Card
♂ Member
Member # 23667
Default  Posted: 11:54 AM, March 18th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My WS is bulking at wanting to call me and let me know where he is. Why? Well he doesn't feel he needs to it is really none of my business.

If you stay in this M, you may have to live like this... Can you live like this?

Second here folks I have finally put myself into counseling.YaY. He knows this. Why is he threatened? I mean really upset about me going to counseling for me. I told him it is for me to deal with my Rage issues. No I am not violent but god knows I want to beat the crap out of him and the OW. I need to let the past go. I am working on that. When I say past I mean past not him. But his statement. Well I guess you will find out I am the reason for all your problems and leave me. Nothing good comes out of counseling. My reply to him.
Look Mr. you are putting way too much importance on yourself. This is not about you I need to fix me. I have issues are you blind? He did not comment.
Anywho.
If he told me he needed or wanted counseling I sure wouldn't act all OMG your going to leave me. I would be concerned deeply about his well being. Soooo this I do not get. At all.


I'm concerned with the answer you gave him, it doesn't sound honest at all. You need to let him know that his adultery has really taken it's toll on you and you want to get some counseling help because of this. He needs to hear that the trauma is more than you can handle on your own.
If you want him "to get" what he has done, you need to tell him you are in severe pain... Honestly!

As far as my opinion about your WH? He is just a typical wayward trying to deflect any blame or critisism. He likely afraid of the counseling because, in the end, you may actually see him for what he is (LIAR & CON) and leave. He just wants his cake walk.... No accountability, secret seperate life, and dishonesty. Like I said, typical wayward!

I'm very sorry you are having to live like this, I know it hurts deeply.


WH (me)
BS (her)

D-Days April - Oct. 2007 Recovery started Nov. 2007

"Found Myself", I was right there in my shoes all along!
Search for self called off!

Why Repentance Is Necessary? Because Undeserved Mercy Empowers Entitlement/Sin


Posts: 570 | Registered: Apr 2009
UnexpectedSong
♀ Member
Member # 21761
Default  Posted: 12:11 PM, March 18th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Allgoodnamesgone -

(I was feeling resentful as I was managing work, home & 4 kids while he socialized).

All else aside... do you get alone time while he watches the kids? If not, start doing that immediately. Two nights a week, he gets the kids. You go out with friends, or even just get a cup of coffee and read at the bookstore.

He says he feels like he's in jail, with the constant monitoring.

What a crybaby. Tell him he gets to be monitored until you don't find anything worth monitoring. Meanwhile, put the var back, put the tracker back, put the keylogger on. You get to monitor him until you trust him again.


WW(SA)
"Feedback is the breakfast of champions." - Boris Becker

Posts: 6046 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: California
stuck808
♂ New Member
Member # 24976
Question  Posted: 1:51 PM, March 18th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My W was in a strong EA with her boss a couple of years ago. I stopped it back then, but she continued to work for him.

We have been separated for about 1 year yet we spend all weekends together with the kids.

He recently retired so he is out of the picture. However, she still refuses to see the A as having to be an A and even planned his retirement party with his W.

She said she didn't think it would hurt me. Since the A, she's been doing many things that don't even take me into consideration, like scheduling things that have to deal with the kids without asking me.

She has admitted to me that she suffers from low self-esteem (which I think the boss fed into) and has some depression. Her only reasoning for wanting a D is that she just "doesn't want to be married anymore".

My question is this:
Can her moral compass really be that screwed up since the A? Do people in A really put their spouses in such a low light that they don't really care about their feelings?

It's almost like when I found out about the A, she became a self-absorbed and selfish individual overnight.


Posts: 27 | Registered: Jul 2009
heartache101
♀ Member
Member # 26465
Default  Posted: 2:04 PM, March 18th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Card
Thank You for your post.
I think I am to the point of why try? I mean it is always about him. Him Him Him. I am sick of it.
Oh well that is me mood for the day.
Honey I do appreciate you taking your time to respond to our BS questions. It is appreciated.


There are degrees to which you let people back into your life and degrees to which you let them back into your heart-which, of course, are not the same thing

Posts: 3141 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Indiana
BaxtersBFF
♂ Member
Member # 26859
Default  Posted: 8:39 PM, March 18th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

stuck808,

I think that there is a period after the A is found out where the WS digs in. At least that is what I did after I told my BW about the OW and my EA. The active A may be over, but she sounds like she is still carrying on her side of it. I did this for almost two years after I told my wife about the affair. Just because the A doesn't have two participating members doesn't mean that it is entirely over.


WH - 44
BW - gerrygirl

Posts: 6054 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Boise
stuck808
♂ New Member
Member # 24976
Default  Posted: 10:53 PM, March 18th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks BaxterBFF.

When you were still in the fog, did you act selfishly too when it came to your BS?


Posts: 27 | Registered: Jul 2009
luvedmypbear
♀ Member
Member # 25690
Default  Posted: 2:00 PM, March 19th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

A huge thank you in advance, because I lean on your WS expertise as mine is emotionally inaccessible/inarticulate.

Quick summary of our history and our current situation:
Together 11 years, married almost 5
2 kids (ages 3 and 2)
He's 31, I'm 33
He has combat PTSD which has heavily impacted our lives including depression, rage, abuse.
First confirmed A: sex 4 times between Dec 07 and Mar 08 with a MOW friend of ours.
Second (EA this time): Jan 09-April 09, 25 yr old bartender
Third: not sure if EA or both EA/PA with 20 something girlfriend of one of his work colleagues (while I was still living out of state).

Question for WS:

When I moved with our kids 2 weeks ago, H was acting weird and spending lots of time away from the house, so I checked his cell history while he was gone. Saw same number 3x that day for more than 30 min each....seemed fishy so I called it, woman answered (found out her name from how she answered the phone).

I did not speak with her, but hung up and called H and asked who S''' was and he hung up on me, got home and started yelling.

He broke my cell in half and told me to leave since I don't respect his privacy.

He explained that she is the girlfriend of his former work colleague who had been fired recently and they share a phone. H was just trying to make the guy feel better about his job loss.

While I still thought BS, I dropped it because MIL and BIL were in next room.

fast forward a week, MIL leaves. He has the day off and is in the shower, his cell phone beeps and I look at the text message....
it's from S'''

Her messages (4 of them) describe her desire to spend the night with him, telling him she has never done anything like this before, but he is more than worth it. She doesn't want just sex, he needs to spend the night so she can get to know him better and so she doesn't fell like wham bam thank you mame.

His one response reads, "this is way too serious, I will not spend the night".

I left the phone open to the messages and took our kids and left.

When I returned several hours later, there was lots of drama which I will skip, but here is his explanation......

after deleting the messages, he explained that this all started 3 weeks ago when she told my H that she liked him. He tells me that he didn't want to tell me over the phone because I am still so upset from his last A. He said that he didn't want to tell his friend because he was so upset about being fired.

So, he told S'' that it wasn't going to happen, he's married and that she needs to knock it off. So, she begins texting him 10+ times a day, he tells her to stop or he will change his number.

She stopped for a day or 2, then started again. So, he told her to stop or he would tell her boyfriend and she said please don't I love him.

3 weeks go by.....she escalates and has since moved several states away since her boyfriend was fired. She plans to come and see my H and those were the text messages I saw.....she wanted to give him sex because he is such a nice guy and she felt badly that the wife wasn't here.

H claims nothing happened.

He claims he was going to tell me, but wanted to tell the boyfriend first so he could tell me he had taken care of it.

He changed passwords to his email and cell phone accounts, I asked him for access back and he said no.

I asked to speak with this S'' person and he said no.

I asked him for MC and he said no

He said if I don't like it I could leave.


Please, please, what is up with him?

I am leaving, he has made his desire clear, but why go through hell, false R with me for over 8 months just to do this again????


D-Day July 14, 2009
3 kids (B7, G6, B2)
BW, 37
D and healing, one day at a time

Posts: 1030 | Registered: Sep 2009
Mrs Panda
♀ Member
Member # 27303
Default  Posted: 2:36 PM, March 19th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(((luvedmypbear)))

Oh boy. There are inconsistencies all over the place.

Saw same number 3x that day for more than 30 min each....seemed fishy so I called it, woman answered

Do you really believe he was talking to her boyfriend? 3 times x 30 minutes? I don't.

Do you really believe that a woman would repeatedly beg a man for sex via texts, calls, etc., if there was no reciprocation?

This reeks of at least an EA, if not more.

Sorry. He needs to give you access, go to MC, and let you talk to OW if you hope to R, IMHO.


Me-41 FWW Him-44BH
M 13years. Reconciled.
DDay#1 Nov 2008 (OM2)
DDay#2 Aug 2009 (Confessed to OM 2001)
"The only thing permanent is change." Dr Charles Mayo,1930

Posts: 1947 | Registered: Jan 2010 | From: The SouthEast
luvedmypbear
♀ Member
Member # 25690
Default  Posted: 2:44 PM, March 19th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thank you Mrs. Panda

I am hanging on by a thread today and your attention to my question helps keep me.

Thank you


D-Day July 14, 2009
3 kids (B7, G6, B2)
BW, 37
D and healing, one day at a time

Posts: 1030 | Registered: Sep 2009
heartache101
♀ Member
Member # 26465
Default  Posted: 1:16 PM, March 20th (Saturday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

WS I have yet another question.

My WS knows I am in counseling. I took my call scheduled in front of him. He was very very upset. Tough cookies... Sooo I went to meeting. He has not asked how this meeting went. At all. Nadda. Do I mention the meeting and the drugs prescribed or do I just wait to see if he ask??
My new IC said he is afraid he will get revealed he can fool me but not others?? Soooo
since he feels he is the cause of my need for IC is that why he won't ask?? Shame guilt??? IDK???? Should I bring it up???


There are degrees to which you let people back into your life and degrees to which you let them back into your heart-which, of course, are not the same thing

Posts: 3141 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Indiana
dismantled
Member
Member # 26887
Default  Posted: 1:23 PM, March 20th (Saturday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Ok, long talk last night with WH and he delivered a time bomb. One of those comments that fly under the radar until they blow up in your head hours or days later and you wonder WTH?

In most situations in which WS's are remorseful and wanting to stay in the marriage and wanting to make amends, it is widely acknowledged that they will do certain things to earn their place back in the marriage whether it be transparency, more involvement in the house or with the kids, more romance, willingness to discuss the affair when their BS needs to, an understanding and patience with the rollercoaster and the process of recovery... or all of the above. My WH made a comment last night about those acts that was something like "sometimes I get resentful and wonder why I have to come home from work and roll up my sleeves when Ive seen you're having another difficult day and haven't done much around the house. Or I get resentful when I can't go out alone because it causes triggers. Or sometimes, like you, I feel like I can't deal with any of this anymore, but I have to step up and be there. But then I realize that I caused this so I just suck it up and do what has to be done."

See on the surface this seems like he's really opening up about his struggles and telling me that like me, he has bad days too. Then today, that comment blew up and lodged in my brain. Now I look at that, and it seems as if he's telling me that in his acts to show me his remorse he resents me along the way for having to do anything at all. That he does these things out of duty, and has to actively remind himself why he has to do these things.

So, here it is: as a WS, did the actions that you did out of remorse to get your marriage back on track and prove your commitment sometimes leave a bitter, resentful taste in your mouth? Or did these things come easily because you couldn't do enough to show them that you get it, because you know that during the A you weren't 'there' as much as you should've been and you're making up for that now by shouldering the greater part of the burden?


Me-BW
Dday: 1-24-08, Two years of false R and Dday after Dday after Dday after Dday ever since...

It is not easy to find happiness in ourselves, and it is not possible to find it elsewhere.
-- Agnes Repplier


Posts: 216 | Registered: Dec 2009
BaxtersBFF
♂ Member
Member # 26859
Default  Posted: 3:53 PM, March 20th (Saturday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

dismantled,

So are you a SAHM? From what you have posted, it sounds like the pattern of your household is that he works and you take care of the house and kids. Is this right? It sounds like he really doesn't understand why he needs to do these things. Does he really understand the pain he has caused? The "normal" WS actions as we head into R are actually pretty easy to do. But reconciliation isn't just about doing more around the house, help out, checking in, talking about the A and all that. It also requires that the WS really dig into things and understand the deeper issues both with themselves and with their BS and how the M has to change.

If you are the SAHM and he is the type of H who has always thought that the SAHM has things easy and that he should get to do whatever he wants because he is the one making all the money, then he needs to have a couple of 2x4's swung his direction.

I don't think your WH understands how much things need to change.


WH - 44
BW - gerrygirl

Posts: 6054 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Boise
BaxtersBFF
♂ Member
Member # 26859
Default  Posted: 3:58 PM, March 20th (Saturday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

heartache101,

Personally, I think that you should let him know about the meds.

Do you think he is afraid of others finding out about the A and about his BW being on meds? If so, can you or are you willing to give him some assurance that you aren't talking to anyone about this? that it is between the two of you?


WH - 44
BW - gerrygirl

Posts: 6054 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Boise
Card
♂ Member
Member # 23667
Default  Posted: 4:39 PM, March 20th (Saturday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

luvedmypbear


I'm very sorry, but your H is gaslighting you!

This is such an obvious case of HUGE lies....

He had an A and is probably still involved in some way or another.

You need to Snoop dear!


WH (me)
BS (her)

D-Days April - Oct. 2007 Recovery started Nov. 2007

"Found Myself", I was right there in my shoes all along!
Search for self called off!

Why Repentance Is Necessary? Because Undeserved Mercy Empowers Entitlement/Sin


Posts: 570 | Registered: Apr 2009
Zerbe
♂ Member
Member # 27620
Default  Posted: 11:09 PM, March 20th (Saturday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

This does not feel right to me. My FWW reveals to me last week that she has 5-6 cd's that the OM gave her since he is not much of a writer. They are basically his letters to her. She says that she will let me listen though it makes her feel uncomfortable because she is betraying his trust. They were not intended for me. I of course am thinking "what about my trust" and "you have no business making promises like that to him". I tell her that I am not up for it then, but would like to later. She agrees. Last night I tell her I am ready and she flat out refuses. Says that things are starting to heal and she does not want me freaking out about something that is over and done. Says she will destroy them instead. She had been doing pretty well the last few weeks about being supportive and understanding. This has me very angry and feeling scared. How does this sound to the former wandering spouses out there?

Affair has been ongoing since May of last year until February. I found out about it last summer and have been trying to reconcile since. She has been caught numerous times breaking NC.


Me: BH 40
Her: STBXW 37
2 daughters (1 mine{11} ,1 ours{4})
D-Day 1: 6/30/09 (3 year LTA revealed as well as one that was just beginning)
4th and hopefully last D-Day: 2/16/10

NOT!! Dday #5 9/8/10
Final Dday 10/12/10 - D will be final 1/11


Posts: 169 | Registered: Feb 2010
BaxtersBFF
♂ Member
Member # 26859
Default  Posted: 8:28 AM, March 21st (Sunday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Zerbe,

Yes, the OM trust shouldn't be an issue. Your WW is having a tough time letting go of things. It doesn't necessarily mean she and OM are doing anything, it could be all on her side. In my A, I was the one who couldn't let go of things for almost a year and a half.

As to the CD's...are they music? or him speaking? You should have access to those. Your WW needs to understand that R is not all about keeping the good stuff going. You guys are going to have to go through the bad stuff too.


WH - 44
BW - gerrygirl

Posts: 6054 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Boise
dismantled
Member
Member # 26887
Default  Posted: 10:41 AM, March 21st (Sunday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

dismantled,
So are you a SAHM? From what you have posted, it sounds like the pattern of your household is that he works and you take care of the house and kids. Is this right?

Yes, that exactly right.
It sounds like he really doesn't understand why he needs to do these things.

I won't speak for him, but from what I've gotten out of talks, he realizes that throughout our marriage, he's had a pretty chauvanistic mentality about who does what around the house. He works outside the home and is sole earner. I have always been responsible for everything else, from kids, housework, car maintenence, bills, taxes, house repairs, appts, parent teacher meetings-- you name it. He worked. If he came home and it wasn't to his satisfaction he'd start picking things up and cleaning without even taking off his coat and shoes or saying hi. NOW, after affair, he is more involved and says he realizes that he needs to be a part of the household too, and that the type of acknowledgement/affirmation that he used to seek is cheap and meaningless and that the real reward comes from knowing that you are a vital member of the family.
Does he really understand the pain he has caused?
I don't think so. He says he does, but I really don't think so. He doesn't discuss his thoughts much though.
But reconciliation isn't just about doing more around the house, help out, checking in, talking about the A and all that. It also requires that the WS really dig into things and understand the deeper issues both with themselves and with their BS and how the M has to change
I agree and you have put into words what has been nagging at me. He does not understand this at all and disagrees with it when I bring it up. He feels that because he regrets his choice and does not feel he'll ever make that choice again, that is enough and we start over from there. I disagree completely.

If you are the SAHM and he is the type of H who has always thought that the SAHM has things easy and that he should get to do whatever he wants because he is the one making all the money, then he needs to have a couple of 2x4's swung his direction.
Agreed, 100%

I don't think your WH understands how much things need to change.
Thank you BaxtersBFF. I haven't been seeing the things I need to see, and he has a way of making me feel as if I will never ever be satisfied no matter what he does. I feel like if there is any chance of salvaging this mess, we have to start from scratch. That includes intense IC for him, then after a period of that, MC for us, and quite a lot of work reworking the whole thing from the ground up. I can't take a chance without that.

So essentially, the fact that he has to remind himself that he's doing this stuff to "make up" for the pain he caused and has to talk himself out of his resentment is a pretty big red flag? And WS that truly 'get it' also understand that the whole thing needs to be scrapped and remade. Together. Not just hitting the reset button and starting over the way it was before. Is that the takeaway?


Me-BW
Dday: 1-24-08, Two years of false R and Dday after Dday after Dday after Dday ever since...

It is not easy to find happiness in ourselves, and it is not possible to find it elsewhere.
-- Agnes Repplier


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