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User Topic: BS Questions for WS's IV
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Default  Posted: 1:37 PM, March 28th (Sunday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage


Thanks for your response!!

It seems he's either holding back or just not interested. Could you find out?

I have tried to find out, but he doesn't know. He is under a lot of stress from work and says that it is too much to have to deal with the stress here at home with all of the talks that I seem to want.
The next night after he started the hugging..I tried initiating the hug and got a cold non-response. When I asked him why...what did I do now...he got very rude and angry about always wanting to analyze everything he does and says.
I then told him to go f**k himself and to get the hell out and find his own place ...that I was tired of his hot and cold.

Here is his response in an e-mail to me:

I don’t think I want to go f**k myself or get out of your life …

I realize that you probably hate me but believe it or not I probably hate myself more. The night before was actually nice and it felt good to hold you again. But my mind has just been flooded and overloaded – especially the past few years. Work seems to be getting the best of me. Yesterday I had an especially bad day to the point that I had a mini-meltdown and actually thought that I was going to have a full meltdown but managed to hold it off.

a bunch more inbetween then this

If you think it will be easier for us both then I will leave. I understand … I’m not happy but I understand. I was rude last night – I was just so mentally tired and needed a break from everything – the talking, analyzing etc that I over reacted and I apologize for that.

then this is from my reply e-mail
I know I agreed not to talk about us...there is just some thing I want to clarify a quote from your e=mail

I was rude last night – I was just so mentally tired and needed a break from everything – the talking, analyzing etc that I over reacted and I apologize for that.

Just to clarify this statement...........I was not trying to talk to you when you got rude....I just put my arm on you were already angry ...I just didn't know it.

then this from another e-mail from him along with my reply:

just really need some peace and rest from everything once in a while.

and a hug disturbs this peace and rest?

you don't need to respond to this ...I just had get it clarified , just so I know

I have now agreed not to bring up anymore talks and that he can wait till mid August to find someplace else to stay.
That will relieve him from any stress from home and maybe by then he can finish some of the things that he needs to do to sell the house. I will be gone with the kids for most of the summer.
This may be harder for me to but I will deal with it.

edited to add;

Why can I not ever explain things in a shorter version!!!!

[This message edited by deena at 1:40 PM, March 28th (Sunday)]

Relationships are like glass. Sometimes it's
better to leave them broken than to hurt
yourself putting it back together.

Posts: 2496 | Registered: Jan 2010 | From: Canada
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Default  Posted: 7:23 PM, March 28th (Sunday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Did you think about your husband when your were having your A?

What were you concerned about? What bothered you most?

My WW says that she is also having a very difficult time with all this. She does not feel as though she really had an A (only a serious EA) until they "kissed, etc" prior to separation. Yet, she is always out and staying at the OM's place.

I find it hard to believe that she is miserable or hurting. They've been to San Diego for Valentine's Day Weekend, etc.

Yet, maybe someone can enlighten me with some advice, stories, experiences, etc.

What could she possibly experiencing with respect to both relationships?

Posts: 332 | Registered: Jan 2010 | From: Bratislava
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Default  Posted: 12:42 PM, March 30th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

underwater -

Did you think about your husband when your were having your A?

You need to clarify your question more. There is a difference between whether the WW thought about her husband during the A before the husband found out vs after the husband found out and the WW kept the A going.

Your wife is keeping the affair going - actively, staying with him, traveling with him, with your full knowledge. That is vastly different from most of our experiences here.

Is she thinking of you right now? Sure. She's probably wondering why you're not filing for divorce and how long she can have this comfortable dual life.

"Feedback is the breakfast of champions." - Boris Becker

Posts: 6046 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: California
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Default  Posted: 12:50 PM, March 30th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

healingwife -

But as a WS, can't you see past your depression and try to make your BS feel desireable?

There are so many issues to address in your one little question!!!

In an ideal world (well, in an ideal world, there would be no affairs, but that aside...), the WS would put everything aside to help the BS heal. In the real world, some WSes are not capable. People are different. Some people cannot - it has nothing to do with infidelity.

I am one of those. I could not help my husband. He had to be the strong one. Is it fair? Hell, no. But, it is what it is.

Do you want to be right or do you want R to work?

As for seeing past depression... how much do you know about depression? You know that part of depression is apathy and being unable to see past the depression itself, right? It really does not help the depressed person to say "the sun will shine tomorrow" and "after the storm comes the rainbow". If your H is really depressed, he can't get himself out of bed, much less put it aside to help you.

And finally... I know you don't want to hear this, but it's reality. Affairs involve feelings. The WS's feelings went toward the AP and away from the BS. It's not a switch that can be turned on and off toward one person or another. He cannot court you and pursue you right now. He will likely be able to do that in time. But he needs to process a lot of crap out before that happens.

I am sorry for your pain.

"Feedback is the breakfast of champions." - Boris Becker

Posts: 6046 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: California
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Default  Posted: 1:21 PM, March 30th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My husband crossed a boundary the other day by contacting a female friend, who I believe we had agreed he would not contact.

She is not the OW from his L.T.A., nor is she an AP. They met on a dating site while we were separated, met for a drink, decided that they weren't interested in one another in a romantic/physical way and became friendly.

I do believe that they are just friends.

When I confronted FWH with the email he sent to her I was really pretty awful. I was fully dressed and wide awake. I intentionally confronted him shortly after he woke and while he was naked. I used the timing to my advantage.

He got angry. Big surprise - I would have too, I think, if I am being honest.

As we argued his frustration bubbled to the surface.

Now this is a man who has been doing just about everything I have asked for (the email issue here being the only thing). Within 2 weeks of finding out about the LTA we went to Retrouvaille. He has done everything asked of him in that regard and then some. He has admitted to and owns his shit when it comes to the A. He doesn't like answering questions about the A, but if I ask, he answers.

So when frustrated or angry he said something to the effect of, "Why bother? Nothing I do can ever be enough."

Now at first I thought he was pitching a fit ... and so did almost all of the other BS in the reconciliation forum.

BUT ... what I want to know is this. Is it possible that his frustration is just that ... frustration over his inability to "fix" things?

My husband is an "Acts of Service" person and a general "fix-it" kind of guy. He is happiest when he has a problem that he can analyze, work on and declare it fixed.

There is no fixing this.

Even if we heal and move forward there is no "fixing."

In a way he is right. There is nothing he can do that will ever be "enough" to undo the damage done.

When the WS gets frustrated and angry - does it have to mean that they're "in the fog" or "throwing a tantrum" or "not owning their own shit?"

Can't it ever just be that you all have bad days too?

Am I crazy for trying to think the best of my FWH?

BS (Me) XWH (him) M nearly 16 yrs
1 DD (teens)
D-day #1 12/09, #2 2/10
Divorced 10/6/10

Posts: 3862 | Registered: Jan 2010 | From: The Deep (Fried) South
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Default  Posted: 1:55 PM, March 30th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

SouthernGal -

My husband crossed a boundary the other day by contacting a female friend, who I believe we had agreed he would not contact.

Has he agreed not to contact her again?

When I confronted FWH with the email he sent to her I was really pretty awful. I was fully dressed and wide awake. I intentionally confronted him shortly after he woke and while he was naked.

Well, surprising him in general is not a bad thing. You are likely to get a more authentic reaction. However, having said that, this situation would be putting him at a disadvantage - just waking up, naked - and it's not surprising that he would get frustrated and angry.

There is no fixing this.

Did he explain why he emailed this woman?

Can't it ever just be that you all have bad days too?

Am I crazy for trying to think the best of my FWH?

These two things are not logically linked. You can think the worst of your WH and he can still have bad days. It's just human nature.

And yes, sometimes it's just having a bad day.

However, you realize that confronting someone when they are defenseless is setting that person up, right? My therapist says anger is a secondary emotion that covers up the primary - which could be fear, helplessness, concern. Any of those emotions would be at play upon being confronted this way and it's very, very logical that he would be angry. (Bad day or not, affair-related or not.)

"Feedback is the breakfast of champions." - Boris Becker

Posts: 6046 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: California
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Question  Posted: 4:48 PM, March 30th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Friends, of whom I have the most utmost respect for, your presence here - I seek wisdom, understanding.

My brother has recently found out he is a BH; his WW met a man on Facebook, "interluded" via the Internet for months, culminating in their in-person meeting this past week, which lasted four days. My brother managed to keep quiet for over a month, and then confronted her when she returned from her trip. They have a counseling appt. for this Thursday - nothing else about their situation that is at all out of the "ordinary", if you will.

Except for one thing, in my opinion anyway.

WW was carrying on with this man online - this man she had not yet ever met in person - for months. She was telling this man, "you are the love of my life, I've never felt that way about my husband, I will leave my husband one day soon and marry you" ... etc. etc. Again, nothing really "out of the ordinary". BUT - in January, my BH brother went and had a vasectomy - effectively, he gave up his ability to have children, for her - her desires have always been, to not have children. Now - while my brother was going through with this surgery, she sat on the sidelines, did nothing. According to what she was saying to this man on FB, she was planning to leave.

So, my question is this. Would this really be something that someone might do when in "the fog"? Would a foggy WS really let things go that far?

I am asking this question, because I am in desperate need to find a way to temper my anger and be a support to my brother, keeping my own anger out of the equation. I really want to understand. My heart tells me, this is a level of cruelty that goes beyond the "norm" of an affair.

What do you all think?

I so value your opinion(s), and your willingness to be open enough to share them with me. Thank you ....

A saying for my SI Family: "We may not have it all together, but together we have it all".

Fooled twice - almost exactly 10 years apart.

Posts: 3375 | Registered: Jan 2004 | From: California
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Default  Posted: 5:07 PM, March 30th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

erzulie, WOW!!! I'm kind of speechless. Does your brother and her have children? I'd say this is totally greed on her part. I mean if she was planning to leave her H for this other guy, why in the hell let your H go through a vasectomy?

I'd say this has nothing to do with being in the "fog", it was flat out mean.

Is she still in contact with this other guy? I can't answer for any other FWS, but me personally would NOT let my BH get a vasectomy if I was planning on leaving him. That's just crazy.

I really don't know what else to say. I've never heard of anyone doing this. Like I said, WOW!!

me FWW-40's
him BS-41
M-8 yrs.(together 10 yrs.)
1 dog (my baby) no children
Came home after 7 weeks, and in R since-7-28-08.

Posts: 1004 | Registered: Sep 2008 | From: Arizona
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Default  Posted: 5:27 PM, March 30th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

erzulie - I too am speechless. This is so self centered and totally irresponsible. I've done alot of shameful things during the affairs but to purposefully know your intent and then allow this to happen is completely unconscionable.

Has your brother asked her why she didn't say anything at the time? If yes, what was the WS's response? I got very angry reading this especially knowing that my husband and I had infertility issues related to me. I can definitely see how difficult it would be to support your brother.

He needs to find out why she didn't say anything.

Me: FWS (me) 48
Husband: BS 44
Married: 14 Years, 2 kids (14 and 13)
D-Day 1: 07/27/08
D-Day 2: 4/15/09 Same OM
D-Day 3: 3/2/2010 All disclosed

Posts: 375 | Registered: Sep 2008 | From: MN
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Default  Posted: 5:37 PM, March 30th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My only presumption, is that she didn't say anything, because she was too mired in the fantasy of her online affair, and maybe wasn't really EVER intending to leave my brother. Maybe she just planned to string them both along as long as she could. Be that as it may - it still strikes me as "crossing a line", one in which I have very little ability, if any at all, to ever contemplate forgiving.

How do I get the image out of my mind, in my head, where my brother looked at me, with tears pouring down his face, "I gave up having kids for her!" How do I stop the thoughts of wanting her to jump off a cliff and die?

Will he ask her, why she sat idly by while he went through with the procedure? I don't know if he will ask her that or not. One of the biggest knots I carry around right now, in my gut, is wondering how in the Hell I am going to behave, if they do in fact reconcile? Is it entirely selfish of me, to not want to see her ever again? What do I do, if they work it out?

These are the thoughts that plague me. These, and the homicidal thoughts. What a nice little mix, swirling around in my head.

A saying for my SI Family: "We may not have it all together, but together we have it all".

Fooled twice - almost exactly 10 years apart.

Posts: 3375 | Registered: Jan 2004 | From: California
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Default  Posted: 7:28 PM, March 30th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

It's my hope.
She is a cake eater, she want the marriage and the AP too.
I don't think she was thinking in leave you brother, just to have some "fun" online that went too far. As you say that chats (...I will leave my husband one day soon and marry you) "aren't "out of the ordinary", it's classic A speaking, as far I know.

I just hope it is like this, otherwise it means she is as genuine psychopath.

You are justified to have your feelings. If they reconcile you will have to bear with that fact at the time and look over your feelings again. In the meanwhile be the brother he needs.

Posts: 1476 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: Sevilla
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Default  Posted: 8:47 PM, March 30th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage


I am wondering about your WH fix it pattern. Does he fix things? other peoples problems? his own stuff? As you state, this is something he can't fix (erase) and it will always be broken. R'ing and your M will always have this broken component that will always be there.

He contacted somebody that you both agreed he shouldn't contact. He messed up. I think many WS are afraid of messing up again post-A. When we do, it is another thing that we can't really fix. So it is a perpetual state of fear we find ourselves in. We know what we need to do, but we know it is likely we will mess up. Can he fix this? Yes we have bad days, but our bad days when our bad days are tied to an already devestating event like an A, it can probably create that feeling of "nothing I do will ever be good enough" (I can't ever fix this).
I don't know.

WH - 44
BW - gerrygirl

Posts: 6053 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Boise
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Default  Posted: 8:58 PM, March 30th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage


My C was not helpful when I asked what should happen next or what this is supposed to look like.

If we hang out/spend time together- do you think WSO will think that what he did was minimal? That I am over it? That since it has only been a few weeks it wasn't really that bad and it will give him permission to do it in the future?

I think what it looks like is up to you. I think that it is up to you to make sure your WSO knows that you aren't over it and that it isn't okay for him to do this again.

It is likely that you have a very long way to go before you figure out for yourself if you really want to reconnect. Read around on SI and you can find couples where one spouse or the other realizes they don't want to, or can't, reconnect after a few years of working on R.

Some big indicators for you may be how your WSO acts from here on out. He wants to work on R, but do his actions show this to you? or is he just saying it? Communication on your part will let him know where things stand as far as you not being over the A.

Take your time.

WH - 44
BW - gerrygirl

Posts: 6053 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Boise
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Default  Posted: 9:11 PM, March 30th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage


Is he sorry? At MC the other day, my H answered one of my questions. How could you do this? His answer...(lack of sex on my part) for sex and that he could keep it a secret. WTF!!!

That's pretty harsh. Lack of sex is not an answer to your question in MC. Being able to keep it a secret seems to be pretty unremorseful.

It has been a long time since D-day for him to only give these two lame answers as the reason for the A. Your profile says he is in IC. What is he working on? You weren't getting your emotional needs met and he wasn't getting his physical needs met, what are the both of you doing to address this now? Have you figured out why this situation developed in your M prior to the A?

WH - 44
BW - gerrygirl

Posts: 6053 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Boise
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Default  Posted: 10:39 PM, March 30th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Underwater -

I am not sure if I can give you the answers you are looking for - in fact I am sure I cannot because everyone has a different experience, but I'll try my best to respond.

I have followed your story to some degree on the other forums, and I recognize some of myself in your WW. There are a few things that are different in my history from your situation - my BH and I are now D. And I am not with OM and haven't been for some time. He is not the reason I divorced my xBH.

Did you think about your husband when your were having your A?

As US pointed out, this is a little vague. Yes, I thought about my BH, but I felt that my M was over before I even met OM. That does not excuse the A. I should have filed for D before even starting down the road of romantic attachment to another man. That's on me.

I'll be brutally honest though, I did not feel guilty at the time for what I was doing (that has changed now). And most of my thoughts of my H were comparisons of him to OM. I felt tremendously neglected by my H, who had a substance abuse problem that was spiralling out of control and for which he refused to get help. When he was using (which was every night), he ranged from passed out to indifferent to me to abusive. I felt that he put me off about discussing our own issues and showed no concern for me about problems I was having of any magnitude. And then along came OM, who made special efforts to follow up with me about concerns I had shared with him, who was fiercely protective of me when I was scared, and who was willing (and thrilled) to talk to me for hours on end about anything. And who wasn't a user - that's a big one.

I find it hard to believe that she is miserable or hurting.

I can see why you would have your doubts about that. I think my xBH may have said the same thing, but I was (am) miserable and hurting. I can't compare my pain to his because it is impossible to do so, but I am in significant pain and misery now. My BH was my best friend for so long and we had made what appeared to be the perfect life together. That unravelled over the span of years, but as it became clear to me that the M was not salvageable no matter my efforts, I went through hell processing the end. This was mostly before I even met OM. But with the A and discovery of it, my misery deepened. I was dealing with the loss of my M, the loss of OM (we went underground for sometime after DD, but it became clear that we would not have a full time R ever as much as we loved each other), and really the huge question of "how could I do this?" I am a woman that no one in a million years would think would cheat. Least of all me - I'd always been one of the first to jump on the "how could she?!?" bandwagon when I heard about other people's As. All the questions that BS's ask in JFO and General about "how could someone do something like that?" I ask myself too.

My M is over and my A is too, and the tough work has just begun. I need to make sure this never happens again. With all of my focus on the brokenness of my BH in our M, I am only realizing now just how broken I am.

I still have faith that I will build a much brighter future out of the wreakage of my life, but in the meantime I am a mess. I lost 40 pounds (nearly a third of my total before). I can't sleep. I used to take no prescription meds, but I am now on two ADs, an anti-hypertensive, an anti-anxiety and a sleeping aid. And I just have the damndest time even accomplishing the smallest of tasks.

All that to say, yes, it is very possible your WW is feeling the pain acutely. I feel like I failed my xBH, I failed our beautiful children and I failed myself. I am not just brushing myself off and blithely walking away from the rubble, but examining the structural deficiencies to understand where everything went horribly wrong so this was the last time I see my world crumble.

I hope you get some reprieve from the enormity of your grief, underwater.

Out of clutter, find simplicity; out of discord, find harmony; in the middle of difficulty lies opportunity. Einstein

Posts: 1777 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: Land of the Sweet Lovely Kiddos
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Default  Posted: 9:58 AM, March 31st (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi everyone!

FWH and I are coming up on 2 year anti-versary, which is also, unfortunately, just a week before my bday.

mid March until the end of April is just chock full of triggery days... things are getting better, but I find that at this point in R, I have finally gotten past a lot of the "how could he" and "what was wrong with me/us?" to thinking more about my future and what I want in a relationship. I'm able to look at issues we had preA and I've been working on cleaning my side of the street.

The one thing that has bothered me this whole while is that I have felt like H and I were disconnected emotionally. Even though things seem to be getting better externally, I felt the intimacy wasn't growing. When I discussed this with H in the past, he sorta responded negatively... like "why can't you see how much things have improved and why do you always have to nitpick everything. Why can't you appreciate what is good?" This can be my issue sometimes, so I started questioning myself more... feeling a little crazy, ya know?

But finally, last night, we had a heart to heart and H admitted that over the past two years he sorta has boxed himself up emotionally... he said that he realized he felt like he didn't want anyone to love him... but he's recently realized that he's not being good to himself with that attitude and that he finally feels like he wants his life to start up...

On the one hand, this is good... I mean, it's good that he's had this realization and it's good for me to hear that I'm not just crazy... that he wasn't completely "in" our marriage.

But, on the other hand... I don't know what to do with this information? I don't know if this is a normal stage of grieving for the WS... and of course, I have my BS insecurities that make me feel like this is proof that he's "settled" for me and that all this time he's felt like he was dying because things went south with the OP.

FWH isn't very comfortable with sharing feelings, especially negative ones with me... and early on, I really wasn't in any shape to be able to listen to his hurt any way.

Now, I think that me listening and sharing his grief may be the only real way for us to gain the intimacy that I really want in a marriage... but at the same time, I have no idea how to help him over his issues with expressing it... and I also don't know that I want to have to "beg" his feelings out of him. When I make my list of things I want in a relationship, a major one on the list is having a partner who chooses to share his feelings/concerns/dreams/etc with me...

I guess I'm coming here to ask for a different perspective. Because in some ways I feel like last night was a breakthrough moment for us and in other ways I feel like maybe I'm putting on my rose colored glasses again and refusing to see the truth that he was telling me...

Thanks for the input.

"I personally believe "the one" - that special partner, the soul mate, that person that becomes intoxicated by love for us -
Well shoot, I think that the one that needs to feel that way is us, for ourselves."
wisdom from Healing Tree

Posts: 712 | Registered: Jun 2009
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Default  Posted: 2:20 PM, March 31st (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage


I think that post-A, the WS has to come to grips with what they did and each WS has to go about this in their own way. In your situation your FWH has dealt with this internally. To be honest, the external stuff is pretty easy in R. The internal is a struggle and to work through it with you, your FWH will likely cause you more pain and hurt. It is a tough prospect to know that to work on your issues you will have to hurt your BS some more. The causes a WS to keep it all inside which in turn makes it difficult to connect with the BS on an emotional level.

My BW and I are sort of at this point. We both have stuff going on internally and we are both afraid to let it out for fear of hurting the other. We do let it out from time to time, but we haven't set up rules about this either, so we have to work on that.

My suggestion for both of you is to let the other talk with no interuption, no judging, no follow-up, no trying to understand/persuade (sp?). Just let the other person talk to get it out. In our case I think we are both trying to convince the other of our perspective and it isn't working. BW can't totally understand my stuff and I can't totally understand hers. That doesn't mean we can't listen and experience the hurt that we keep inside of us and just be there for comfort. It sounds like things are going well for you, so hopefully you can overcome this hurdle too.

WH - 44
BW - gerrygirl

Posts: 6053 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Boise
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Default  Posted: 7:49 AM, April 1st (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Is it "believable/logical" that you would purchase a cute "miss you & love you" card for your spouse while they (the BS) was out of town, stash it in your dresser and forget about it for over a year?

Obviously, I'm having a VERY difficult time believing this. VERY.

He states that he doesn't even REMEMBER purchasing the card, but if he did (purchase it), he purchased it while I was out of town 3 years ago. I found the card within a few months of Dday, and destroyed it. It was still in the brown paper bag that I "assume" it was placed in when he purchased it.

The card and envelope were un-addressed and not signed.

I WAS out of town that year over Christmas, but was never "presented" with the card. The card was a cute card of a white puppy with a Christmas-type hat on it, and the inside read, "I love you and miss you."

[This message edited by Devestatedx5 at 7:59 AM, April 1st (Thursday)]

FBS-me (49)
FWH(57) ONS 8.19.07
Dday: 9.19.07
Married +26 years
RE-MARRIED 4.28.11
Proverbs 31:10-31
Sometimes people are SO open-minded that that their brains fall out.

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Sad  Posted: 10:18 AM, April 1st (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

This will be long, but I need a neutral point of view or many & I need to get this out...

Part of my story is on my profile, but there is so much more. I keep thinking back to things that brings up red flags now.

How he used to go to a bar to cash his check when he worked 2nd shift and wouldn't be home for hours.

How he would go for weekends to male friends place & admittedly go to strip bars, etc. just for fun...

How DS1 had conjunctive chlamydia when he was born. Which means I had it & passed it to him during birth (1991). (I have never had sex with another man since I met WH. (1984) I have asked doctor & hotlines & it is possible one of us could have brought it into the marriage but in light of all that is going on now my mind is spinning...

I do love WH with all of my heart. There were many good times and I want to be married & trust him & enjoy his company again.

WH has always needed validation, compliments & attention. I gave that freely and was happy to do it.

He also flirted with other women, even in front of me. Never bothered me (or it did in my gut but again I ignored it) because I felt special & that he chose & loved me & me alone. I trusted him unequivocally.

I gave and gave and gave. Somewhere along the line I realized that with all my giving I was not getting.

That led to my shopaholism. (I know, not a word but you get it, right?) That led to major money problems, and we had not been solvent going into the marriage.

WH resents my irresponsible spending (I knew he would & did it anyway) then I resent his angry response.

Three kids & a house later we are still resentful & the DV thing comes up. We reconcile (for the wrong reasons) & the OW comes into the picture. (She had been there 4 years already only I didn't know about her)

Four & a half years later OW is still in the picture & I knew about her & I constantly brought her up & he said they are 'just friends', he does not believe in EA.

WH takes a weekend away & when I find his facebook account I am terrified that I am losing my husband. The OW is a friend on facebook as are old HSGF (he still has her pics & love letters in his memory box, has refused to get rid of them for 25 yrs--yes he knows it bothers me) & many other women from past & present.

I immediately (Dec 14) do the two main things he has been asking (yelling at) me to do: get a job & schedule IC because he says I am broken.

Note: I had worked outside the home through the marriage & quit my job 18 months previously because of stress & WH would not help with anything around the house, he said it was my job so I figured he has one job I should have one, not two. I get depressed, gain weight, push WH away, withhold sex and am generally a mess this whole 18 months.

Five days later (Dec 19) he moves out while I am at work & the kids are not home. WH left it for the two older kids to tell me & I freaked. Hindsight I wish I had not reacted so badly in front of them (DS 18 & DS 16)but I was truely traumatized.

Immediately when he moves out I go to: I am sorry, please forgive me, give me another chance. I know.

We have about a month of HB, basically me going to his place for 'booty calls'. He says OK, I will stay here (his apartment) a year and if we work this out I will come back to the house, it has to be on my terms. I know, I know:

He admits to being in contact with OW and now says that he always has talked to all of the women that are his friends the way he talks to OW. So I guess there are many OW's.

He also says it was never romantic 'I love you I want to be with you' talk, that he was looking for advice about our M and me. He does say that there were derogatory remarks made toward me from both him & the OW(s) None of the OW have ever met me.

I have been in IC since he left, we have been to 2 MC sessions with my IC. (He will do no further MC until WH gets IC) WH has scheduled IC to begin in April, but has hinted that he's not sure he will go.

It is one of my must-have for R. The other three are : NC with OW and I approve a NC letter, firmer boundries with female co-workers & friends, total disclosure & transparency. He argues all but the boundries, says he will work on that...

I realize there were previous problems throughout the marriage but I do own up to my part & have done & am continuing to do a lot of work to fix myself.

Ok finally the questions:

I guess DDay would be 5 yrs ago. Should I have taken a firmer stance on this then. Is it too late now to say NC?

How could he just leave like that? Not only from me, but the kids, right before Christmas? They had no Christmas, no presents under the tree. I was working every day (retail), had no paycheck yet. My best friend, Mom & sister sent money & the kids had to shop the week before Christmas for their own gifts.

Is it possible that I let this emotional connection between WH & OW go on too long? That now he doesn't love me? He says he does but the actions are not there.

We have also started attending church. WH says it reminds him to do the right thing.
He also said I should listen to the Pastor, forgive & let go of my grudges. (NC & NC letter) Am I holding a grudge by asking for NC & NC letter?

Side note: WH tapped the phone about 10 years ago & heard me tell a friend that I just don't love WH anymore. I remember the conversation, I was depressed about finances, fights, WH not helping, etc. I always loved him, just didn't like him THAT day. He brings this up all the time & also that I said I love him differently after the DV. He also said he couldn't stand me when he left, but he still loved me. (?) He said 'I left the situation, I did not leave you'

He thought I would right away file for D. I did not and do not want a D. I did however file for Legal Separation CS & SS (hours are being cut at work, bills are behind & WH is not helping as he said he would), he just got the papers.

IC advised me to carry pepper spray as he thinks WH might get violent. I don't think he will, just mean & ugly with words.

WH called & was surprisingly calm about it--saying we will lose the house & he could not afford the amount. I re-iterated my must-haves, he argued & I told him no more phone call or texts between us, just email and we will see each other at church. (180ish) I still want to work on the marriage. How do we do this with no communication between us?

He has taken himself of my AOL acct & set up his own. Tells me he will not discuss anything until he has his legal paperwork in order. Is this a hardline stance until I cave & let him do everything his way?

I read here at SI about R taking place years later. WH finally coming out of the fog. With him initiating the separation is that likely or possible?

I really like to think (like my name) there is aways hope. Please, anybody, what do you think?

Thank you for any responses, even 2 x 4's.

BW me- 51
WH 50
3 DS
M 27 yrs
STD/PA? in 91 Many EA's, LT(10 yr)EA/PA
DDays: many -started 2005
TT never stopped, don't think I will ever have the full truth
SOW- WH's former HS 'friend/whore'

Posts: 307 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: The Heartland
♀ Member
Member # 21761
Default  Posted: 10:57 AM, April 1st (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

always-hope -

I still want to work on the marriage


ETA: Sorry, that was too short. He's violent, not remorseful, has had a LTA that he does not admit is an affair (I don't believe it's not physical), doesn't help around the house, is mean and angry, has moved out, maintains his affair (much easier now that he's moved out), wants you to sweep everything under the rug...

Okay, now I ask: Why?

[This message edited by UnexpectedSong at 11:00 AM, April 1st (Thursday)]

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