I hope that's what it is about. Hopefully, twice is all he's cheated and he's just frustrated. Maybe that's the part that's bugging me. When he acts like that, it crosses my mind that just maybe, he's still cheating. I don't think that's the case, but you can probably understand why his behavior would make me wonder that.
[This message edited by nothereorthere at 8:20 AM, April 4th (Sunday)]
You are asking about something that is based on self-esteem issues from a group of people who have some major self-esteem issues. I don't know if that is irony or if it is an "ask the experts" thing. Also, I had an EA with only a few face to face meetings, but I think I can still answer your questions.
So the OW was 35? Think about how your WH would have looked at a 35 year old woman back when he was 21. Right now to him, is 35 really that different than 46? I remember a friend of mine, back when we were 19, who was dating a 32 year old woman. At the time I thought he was nuts, now I think he obviously knew something that the rest of us didn't. Yes men tend to be more visual than women, but the older we get the less important that becomes. This is where the confidence factor and the whole package concept come into play.
My question: If your AP was younger or in better shape or whatever, how did that affect your physical desire for you BS? For how long? What goes on in your mind regarding this?
The WS here on SI are here because we want the whole package that is our BS. That being said, it has taken a while for me to start to forget the desire that I had for the AP. But it is happening.
Why wasn't I good enough for him to want to spend time with me? Why was he ok with his friends hitting on me?
I had a 3 year affair that my husband knew about. I never lied about who I was with. I have worked my ass off in my job, sometimes two jobs, got my masters, learned 3 languages (wanted kids to be milti-lingual), exercise, and love every extreme sport there is, but he had no interest in me and hadn't touched me in two years before my A.
What man is ok with his wife "dating" someone else if he has ANY interest at all in her? Talk about feeling like shit...
It sounds like you know your value and worth and were very comfortable with you. Your husband's affair understandably rocked you.
Everyone has different "reasons" why they cheat. Looks had absolutely nothing to do with my affair. Didn't even really factor into the equation.
I finally realized that the realization of our worth comes from within. Without that no one can give it to us and have it matter or "stick".
The inverse is true as well. No one can take it from us without our permission. Give yourself the gift of enjoyment with who you are back to yourself. It belongs to you and you alone.
'til the roof comes off. 'til the lights go out. 'til my legs give out, can't shut my mouth
I can't help but feel like I am seconds. Not first choice not enough to satisfy within the marriage and that is why he kept going outside of our marriage. Not enough of the whole package. Sooo he kept looking and is looking I feel.
Sooo what do you think you have now that you didn't have b/4 you stepped out on your marriage.
And thank you, uncertainone. I understand. As painful and maddening as it is, I really do understand the A and all that surrounds it.
an A is about fantasy. WS develop desire for the AP based on fantasy, which at the time of the A, is usually what we perceive as reality.
I know in my head and in my heart, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that the emotions felt were not based in reality nor would they have been sustainable long term.
But, while the emotions were pure fiction, her body was very real!
I don't at all feel in competition with his AP.
My self esteem is intact. The parts that were damaged upon discovery are healing quickly. I believed before I discovered his A that he was lucky to be married to me and I believe he's even luckier since discovery
I also believe that he has no fond memories of her or their brief less than 3 month relationship.
That doesn't mean that he doesn't have fond memories of her body. Men and/or WS's often have the ability to compartmentalize.
I have the idea that in his mind he could cut off her head and place it in a compartment along with the bad memories of the relationship yet keep the body image in another compartment closer to the surface.
I'm looking for one brave WS to validate that this can happen. My WH won't touch this one, not that I blame him...that much. He tells me it's in my head.
I've learned VOLUMES about myself and the meaning of love over these last 12 months. I've faced a lot of ugly truths and learned that I have a wild amount of strength and that I do far better when presented with the truth than I do when I'm being told something's in my head.
So, isn't there anyone that can say to me that they had an A, they have no feelings for their AP post-A, they love their BS with all their heart, they enjoy sex with their BS, they would never trade their M for anything, but the memory of the physical body of the AP lingers/lingered, and there was an adjustment period back to their BS's body after experiencing the AP's body...I'm not talking an emotional adjustment.
Maybe no one can answer. Maybe there's nothing to answer and I'm sorry for doing this to you guys..lol
[This message edited by cuckhold at 3:50 PM, April 4th (Sunday)]
At the start of any new relationship chemicals are released in the brain. It absolutely elevates the focus of our desire. Everything about them. Even the cup they use to drink coffee from takes on significance.
Some call this fantasy but I prefer under the influence and we all go through it at the beginning of every relationship.
After time that fades or becomes integrated with a more complex relationship.
If the affair is over it is very probable those feelings no longer exist and absolutely nothing is special about them anymore.
Everyone leaves footprints in our lives. Yes, I have fond memories of things I did while in the affair but not of the other person.
As far as feeling second...everytime I read that it breaks my heart as no one is second. If anything I could see a ws feeling that way as they are the ones that shattered an image not the bs, but hopefully once the marriage is healed no one does.
Anyway don't know if I helped but this is truly how I feel
Om#1 was my former friend, a virtual gigolo with unusually large (length & width) endowment and exceptional technique
I edited my post because I'm thinking your question was facetious.
I'm a little slow
[This message edited by Rise And Shine at 8:29 AM, April 5th (Monday)]
Kinda hard for us BS to wrap our heads around that. We never strayed we just can't grasp that we are enough.
I don't want to be married anymore. I just want to D and bury the piece of crap we called a marriage. After 28 years of which 4 of them she cheated, I feel the marriage is a sham. I'm not saying I hate WW but I hate trying to pretend we can fix this train wreck.
Dday was June 09 and I'm still going through rage and anger, not so much at WW but at myself for letting this go on as long as it has. WW has been trying but I just feel like trying to save this marriage is like trying to raise the titanic. I don't want to. Why should I???
I don't hate or even dislike WW. I hate what she did and what she was and sometimes is still willing to do to protect her self image. I might even consider getting back together with her after D but I feel like I'm lying to everyone (especially myself) as long as I stay in this M trying to fix it. It's not fixable. I haven't slept well for days and I'm afraid to tell WW what I want because she goes into some sort of panic if she thinks I don't like her anymore. I can't understand why she cares so much whether I like her when she didn't care at all about me or the kids when she was screwing her boyfriend. Why is that OK in her mind for her to do but she freaks if I want to leave. I'm just so confused.
Can't afford IC or MC so that's not an option.
I don't know if this is due to the male/female difference or a sign of something more. My H dropped his OW immediately. He is transparent and honest as far as I know. He has walked with me through my anger. He seems to be trying.
However, when I am triggered or scared (say of his facebook account, for example), he gets angry and defensive instead of protective and sensitive. He said "What do you want me to do? I feel like you are trying to control me. I can't help what other people write on my wall." I feel like if the tables were turned, I'd say "babe, I can see you are upset because the facebook account scares you. Your safety is more important that my social networking. Would you feel better if I shut it down or made it a joint page? I want you to feel safe in this M again." That seems like protection. That seems like I'm a priority. His reaction makes me feel like his freedom is more important that my safety.
And when I trigger, it is the same. Angry and defensive. "In all honesty, your hurt makes me angry. I feel like it is getting in the way of us having a good marriage." Why can't he say "love, I'm so sorry your hurting. I hate that I've put you in a place where you have nightmares. I want to help you get back to your old self." That seems like love. That seems like empathy. His response makes me feel like my pain is a burden. So what does this mean? Does it mean that he just doesn't care like I want him to? Is it a male/female difference? Or is there something more to this? Thanks for any insight you can offer!!
I hate what she did and what she was and sometimes is still willing to do to protect her self image
I had affairs for 8 of the 14 years we have been married. We are rebuilding and we both know that we are going to make it with total honesty and transparency.
I'm not sure if I'm reading into this or not but your WS doesn't sound remorseful if she is still concerned about protecting her self image. Can you expand on this? What is she still willing to do to validate her self image?
Are you feeling her remorse or just her fear that you might leave?
My husband wants to stay and rebuild as he can still see the person he married and has confidence that I can find that person again. Do you see your WS as doing everything that needs to be done such as IC, self reflection, total honesty and transparency? Is she making suggestions to help you deal with your anger and pain?
I'm not sure what exactly I'm feeling from her. She seems to be doing everything right but I'm just afraid it is because she is scared of being alone rather than actually remorseful.
Last night we were talking about our vows, I was angry but controlled. She said was I so sure our vows said love and honor because she didn't think I could have had them memorized and she wasn't sure what they said.! This just screamed to me that she is still trying to justify her behavior. I am so angry and upset I just want to tell her I want to D and be done.
And when I trigger, it is the same. Angry and defensive. "In all honesty, your hurt makes me angry. I feel like it is getting in the way of us having a good marriage." Why can't he say "love, I'm so sorry your hurting. I hate that I've put you in a place where you have nightmares. I want to help you get back to your old self." That seems like love.
Does your husband know how to do the empathetic, kind thing with other people? His parents, friends, kids, coworkers, etc.? If not, maybe he doesn't know how. Have you shown him (written for him, show him this post, etc.) the words that would convey love to you?
Anger covers up something else. My guess is he feels a lot of pain when you hurt. He needs to learn to channel his pain into something constructive for you, instead of falling back into the old anger default.
I used the last affair somewhat like an exit affair so I have spent alot of the last two years getting out of the fog and realizing that my husband is all I want and need. I'm not sure where your WS sits. Is she still potentially in the fog?
Can you talk to your WS about why she is holding back? My husband had to explain that he needed me to provide reassurance when he triggers. I can tell just by looking at him when he needs reassurance. It's hard to get right but I keep asking him what I said wrong if the reassurance didn't come out right (I'm not very tactful and sometimes just blurt out things that may be hurtful instead of helpful).
It's only been a few months for you and your wife since the affair was disclosed. It sounds like she is a poor communicator. Can't you stop her mid sentence and say that her comments sound like self justification and explain how you were expecting her to react rather than hold it in? How would she react if you did this? Has she always justified her behaviors when confronted?
You sound a lot like my WW. We both try to communicate and we are better at it now than ever before but we both still suck at it.
When I get angry she usually tries to take something I've said and turn it back on me to defend herself. She has told me that she'd like to see how I'd handle it if I was in a position like she was with her OM...WTH??? Boundaries have prevented that from ever happening and she seems to get that most of the time but then I get this crap like the vow comment last night. Does she really think that this is going to help in any way shape or form to argue about something like if I memorized our vows from 30 years ago??
We have always played the tit for tat arguing game and she doesn't see what damage it is doing now. I've tried to tell her what I need but unfortunately I am not always sure of what that is myself. It's hard enough being a BS but when you have to try and make the person who destroyed your marriage and life understand why that hurts it becomes to much to do on a daily basis.
Has she come to SI? Could you ask her to post in Wayward? It's hard for a WS to realize and make amends with the destruction that goes on during and after the betrayel. She still seems foggy too and I'm glad she has strong boundaries.
Boundaries have helped and are a critial addition to my life while working through my issues.
SI has helped me tremedously in removing the blinders and false sense of security I had by rationalizing my behaviors.
Keep working on communication. Have you read the "5 Love Languages" book? It was a good read and an eye opener.
She has been on SI but never posted to my knowledge.
She didn't have strong boundaries, I did, that's why I never got in a situation like she did. That was the point of my boundary comment. Sorry if I didn't say it well.
We've read the love languages and about everything else we can find (Shirley Glass, Anne Bertch etc). We've been to Retrouvaille too. Don't know if any of it is going to help because frankly I still can't commit to R. I don't feel that we are headed anywhere. I'm just very tired of the roller coaster and when I look back at why I'm on it I just want to get off and let her ride it alone.
I guess now I'm just wondering...does he love me? Because it doesn't seem like you would respond as he does if you love the person. I'm trying to believe that he does love me, but my hope is waning.
You asked about his responses to others; so did my IC. I have seen him nurture the kids, say when they are hurt (my DD more than my DS). But no, I never have seen him say anything like the things I'd love to hear him say to anyone. So...maybe he doesn't know how, but just admit that this is true? Maybe that shames him? I just don't know. I'm so confused. The process is so long...and I'm so tired of the ups and downs and having my hopes dashed.