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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: BS Questions for WS's IV
roccodom
♀ Member
Member # 19714
Default  Posted: 12:30 PM, April 26th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

floridaredman

Thanks for your response.

I am fairly certain that there is not contact.

I definitely think it is a problem with shame. I completely think he is ashamed of the answers. I get I am getting resentful that his need to protect himself is more important than helping me through the pain I am in and the process of healing.

This isn't just a problem with talking about the A - it's global. In MC - our counselor actually asked him once if he was EVER wrong or guilty of anything. His response was " I don't know".

I have tried to write down my questions and he just answers with one word and coldly. I have the need for him to be more open about discussin the details of the affair. I have told him this - it just doesn't happen.

There have been some moments where it has happened but on the whole - I find it difficult to heal.

He will then end things with "I'm done - I can't do this anymore"

Very very painful. How can I talk to him?


BS - me (45) WS - him (45)
married 16 yrs (DS 11yrs, DD 9yrs)
#1 PA - DDay 12/97
#2 PA DDay 5/08
#3 PA DDay 2/12
Trying R
Buddhism teaches that a craving for things outside ourselves causes an unhappy and pointless search for security.


Posts: 789 | Registered: May 2008 | From: MO
floridaredman
♂ Member
Member # 15122
Default  Posted: 12:34 PM, April 26th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Crickey,

My WH still has feelings for OW. It hurts. Is true R even possible if he still has feelings for her? It makes me feel like there is still a 3rd party in our M.

I am sorry that you are in this situation.
Until your H fully withdraws from OW R is possible, but severely slowed.

If he is actively still pursuing her then no way is it possible. If it is just feelings he has to get over, then yes..true R is possible as long as he is full NC and actively Reconciling with you.
Just like being on a drug or alcohol..in order to fully recover there must be NC with the substance and a period of withdrawal. If he is in withdrawal, then your R is moving right along.


The simplest thing can be the hardest thing to do....FRM

Posts: 2412 | Registered: Jun 2007 | From: Florida
floridaredman
♂ Member
Member # 15122
Default  Posted: 12:42 PM, April 26th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

roccodom,

Your H has a hard time being wrong. He is one of those person who thinks admitting a fault is weakness.

It will always be difficult to talk with him in this mindset. Things has to be his way.
He will have to become selfless if you are ever going to heal with him.

Have you expressed to him how you have become resentful because he is not giving you what you need to heal. If he continues down this path your resentfulness will build and eventually you will shut down.
He has to open up to you..or R will be very very unfruitful and MC will be a waste of time.


The simplest thing can be the hardest thing to do....FRM

Posts: 2412 | Registered: Jun 2007 | From: Florida
roccodom
♀ Member
Member # 19714
Default  Posted: 1:21 PM, April 26th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I have asked him how to talk to him. We have discussed how to talk to him in MC presently and 10 years ago when we were in MC for the first time.

It was our most recent topic in MC - if I am tiptoeing around his responses - I never get to express myself, my anger - everything has to be thought out as to how to approach him.

In MC - I mention how when I was seeing a lawyer and ready to D - all of sudden - all these emotions and remorse come from him. Shocking - but I'm beginning to feel like a bait and switch. He worked hard and tried to be there for me for quite a while (9 or so months) then winter came - depression set in - and back to selfish behavior.

I know it will be fruitless. That's probably why I am so panicked. I had better prepare myself for the worst outcome and divorce. I am so sad.


BS - me (45) WS - him (45)
married 16 yrs (DS 11yrs, DD 9yrs)
#1 PA - DDay 12/97
#2 PA DDay 5/08
#3 PA DDay 2/12
Trying R
Buddhism teaches that a craving for things outside ourselves causes an unhappy and pointless search for security.


Posts: 789 | Registered: May 2008 | From: MO
UnexpectedSong
♀ Member
Member # 21761
Default  Posted: 1:35 PM, April 26th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

roccodom -

I never get to express myself, my anger

What if you got mad at him, just blew up? What would happen?


WW(SA)
"Feedback is the breakfast of champions." - Boris Becker

Posts: 6046 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: California
floridaredman
♂ Member
Member # 15122
Default  Posted: 1:54 PM, April 26th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

roccodom,

I don't think your husband wants a divorce..I don't think he realizes that he is heading for one. Reality is a big eye opener. He needs to know that he is steam rolling that way if his actions don't change the way they did when he thought a divorce was coming.


The simplest thing can be the hardest thing to do....FRM

Posts: 2412 | Registered: Jun 2007 | From: Florida
roccodom
♀ Member
Member # 19714
Default  Posted: 6:13 PM, April 26th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

When I have blown up at him - he has doubled his anger at me OR walked out - whatever - he just disengages.

But I keep telling him that he is not meeting my needs.

I told him that if he doesn't take responsibility for his depression - I will not stay in this relationship.

Is he not hearing?????? I guess not. I've been told not to use the divorce card because fear of abandonment but its not "using" it if you mean it.

I know he doesn't want a divorce but I need some empathy from him.

Thank you for your responses.


BS - me (45) WS - him (45)
married 16 yrs (DS 11yrs, DD 9yrs)
#1 PA - DDay 12/97
#2 PA DDay 5/08
#3 PA DDay 2/12
Trying R
Buddhism teaches that a craving for things outside ourselves causes an unhappy and pointless search for security.


Posts: 789 | Registered: May 2008 | From: MO
Crickey
♀ Member
Member # 27434
Default  Posted: 6:39 PM, April 26th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

THank you, Floridaredman, your words are encouraging. It gives me hope. I'm at an all time low, I need all the reassurances I can get.


Staying together and getting better....most days.

Women are angels, and when someone breaks our wings,we continue to fly...on a broomstick. We're flexible like that.

Posts: 205 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: United States
roccodom
♀ Member
Member # 19714
Default  Posted: 12:44 AM, April 27th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

floridaredman & Unexpected song

Thank you for your responses.

He initiated some talking tonight. Or - he said he was sorry. And that he has serious emotional problems and he doesn't know why do what I do.

I said that I needed to be comforted, supported. I needed to see empathy for him. He said he knows. He really was frozen.

I understand he has a problem - always has - foo issues. I just can't sacrifice myself anymore. I really choose not to be a victim of this anymore.

Thank you for your comments.


BS - me (45) WS - him (45)
married 16 yrs (DS 11yrs, DD 9yrs)
#1 PA - DDay 12/97
#2 PA DDay 5/08
#3 PA DDay 2/12
Trying R
Buddhism teaches that a craving for things outside ourselves causes an unhappy and pointless search for security.


Posts: 789 | Registered: May 2008 | From: MO
floridaredman
♂ Member
Member # 15122
Default  Posted: 7:18 AM, April 27th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Crickey..you are most welcome

roccodom,
Glad to hear that your husband is starting to come around. Becoming a former wayward takes humility. Humility is not a weakness, if used properly it can be a very good strong point. Wishing you continued success


The simplest thing can be the hardest thing to do....FRM

Posts: 2412 | Registered: Jun 2007 | From: Florida
Allgoodnamesgone
♀ Member
Member # 26157
Default  Posted: 9:32 AM, April 27th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Just throwin this out there to see if anyone can relate to this:
Since December, my h has told me that he "guesses" he's depressed, that he's usually a happy person and now he's not. It's VERY difficult to get my husband to open up and discuss his feelings. So, I haven't been pushing him, but I'm just wondering - why now?
Looking back - I can see that while he was in the A he wasn't his usual self in social settings (or at home)- he's usually very social, talkative, very fun. Post D-Day, I've just chalked that up to him not wanting to be with me, our friends, etc. he wanted to be with ow. But, now he seems to be acting the same way. He's not acting like the ass that he was during the A - but just not happy.
2 weeks after DDAy he broke NC which lasted for about 2 weeks before I discovered the "secret phone" and he ended it again. (I can only hope. I have to say he did seem distraught when I told him that I could never get over the breach in nc & that it was over.) Anyway - I rapidly changed my mind (hadn't found SI then - but I assumed that it's hard to go cold turkey with someone who's been your significant other for over a year) and we've been attempting to R ever since. A few bumps in the road have made it very difficult - he lied a few times about where he was - said it had nothing to do with ow, but I really wouldn't know otherwise. As a result - he's being monitored very closely & he knows it. He's been going to ic for about 2 months. He consistently says that it's not doing anything. I'm thinking maybe it's doing more than he thinks & he's just now realizing the enormity of the situation?
I don't know - the real question is if any of you have any insight into why the delay? If this is guilt & a realization as to what the future is now comprised of - why the delayed reaction? Or is it something else? (I have to say - I realize where there's a will there's a way -especially with his job- but I don't have any proof that the A is ongoing - which is what my real concern is - that and my concern that maybe he knows that family life is not really ever going to be enough for him.


Me- BS
DDay- 8/26/09
Separated after failed R effort.

Posts: 2165 | Registered: Nov 2009
nothereorthere
♀ Member
Member # 20530
Default  Posted: 11:35 AM, April 27th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'll try to make this as short as possible and still get it all in. It's been over four years since my FWH's A. It's been around two years since we've been to MC. When we was in MC, he agreed that part of his having the A was from his family saying bad stuff over the years about me and them not wanting him to be married to me. He says he let them get to him. His Mom came up for a visit this weekend. She almost always says something nasty to me. I decided no matter what she says, I would ignore it, and I did. At one point she said something, but was only joking. My FWH looks at me and says, "see, she is only joking, so don't tell me later that she was being nasty." Hmmm, his Mom is sitting right there and he has agreed many times that she says things she shouldn't, but dosen't defend me to her. So, I bring up to him that he should not have said that in front of his Mom. This is the next day, after I have cooled down about it. He gets defensive and replies that I always make his Mom out to be a bitch. I'm not the one saying the nasty stuff, his Mom does. Yet, he defends her when she does. He had agreed with the MC that yes, he does need to speak up when this happens. But, now he sounds like he resents me for the rare occassions he has spoke up to her. Yet, he admits I treat his Mom right and she is the one saying the nasty stuff to me. Sometimes, she even gets in a dig to me about his A. What is going on with my FWS? Obviously, his FOO issues are his family and have something to do with his A. He started to defend her when we was talking about what he said, not what she said. I get tired of being okay and going on with my life, just to have him or his family drag me back into the pain. I would be further along if they would stop all of this. And, I should also mention, when I asked him if he just expects me to overlook everything she says he never said yes or no. Instead, his response was that she has a problem with him being married to me, so it's an issue for her, so he can see why she might say the things she does. Just to clue you in, he has been married once before and his Mom didn't like her and treated her the same way. But, now that they are divorced, his Mom speaks highly of her. My FWH's ex wife warned me that his family always butts in. She said they was a problem in their marriage.

[This message edited by nothereorthere at 11:45 AM, April 27th (Tuesday)]


Posts: 81 | Registered: Aug 2008 | From: Ohio
UnexpectedSong
♀ Member
Member # 21761
Default  Posted: 11:52 AM, April 27th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

nothereorthere -

part of his having the A was from his family saying bad stuff over the years about me and them not wanting him to be married to me

First of all, this is blameshifting. His family saying you suck vs his family saying you're great would not have affected his choice to have an affair, regardless. Call him on this.

Second... read him the definition of marriage. It is where two people become a family. After you get married, your worldview shifts to you and your family (i.e., spouse and/or kids) and then your parents and siblings. When you say "my family", you are no longer referring to your parents and siblings, you are referring to your spouse and/or children.

In every culture, every religion, every group, that is what "marriage" means. He needs to learn that.

If we extend the concept of walls and windows that Shirley Glass discusses, the walls are around the marriage and family and friends get to look in the windows. They are not inside the walls.

No matter how wrong my husband is behaving, I would never take my parents' side over his in front of all of them. In private, I would talk to my husband about whatever it was, but I would never do that in front of my parents.

Your husband needs to learn the definition of marriage.


WW(SA)
"Feedback is the breakfast of champions." - Boris Becker

Posts: 6046 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: California
Razor
♂ Member
Member # 16345
Default  Posted: 12:22 PM, April 27th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I have a question for WS. That may be controversial. So I encourage WS to PM me with they answers if they so choose.

It has been many years since Dday for me. More than most. We never R because WW never really owned what she did and instead blamed me. I stayed in the M for me kids sake.

WW A was a LTA. Very emotional and physical.

Soon after Dday me WW say to me how she ENJOYED the A. She say she enjoy the attention of OM. Even enjoyed 2 men competing for her (even tho I didnt know I was competing). She enjoy the break from difficulties and resentments and responsibilities that come with being M. She enjoyed the dates. The vacations. The romance. The new and different sex.

She say that any WS that say they did not enjoy they A is lying. Just saying what they need to say to either keep BS or to make them be quiet.

This has been the hardest thing I have had to deal with.

What do you make of this? Is it true?

PMs welcome if you choose. But please tell the absolute truth.

Razor


Forgive and forget = Relive and regret.


Posts: 3088 | Registered: Sep 2007
nothereorthere
♀ Member
Member # 20530
Default  Posted: 12:56 PM, April 27th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

UnexpectedSong

First of all, this is blameshifting. His family saying you suck vs his family saying you're great would not have affected his choice to have an affair, regardless. Call him on this.

I have called him on it a number of times over the years and have told him that he is putting the blame on them. Also, if someone does the same to him, it makes me want to stand up for him. When I told him that, he responded that he sees that and asked why do I do that? That floored me and a red flag leaped up for me! Like you, I wait til we are alone before discussing anything that happens, as I did with this issue. I have asked him where his committment lies. He says with me, but his actions show me that's not so.

Just so you know, I show his mother nothing but respect even though she dosen't always deserve my respect. So if anyone is thinking that I am saying or doing something to deserve her wrath, they would be way off. My FWS admits that I treat his mother well and she is the one that has the problem, but he dosen't like me saying to him that he should speak up to her when she says the things she does to me. I feel it is his place, but I don't seem to have his support. Yes, I am fed up.


Posts: 81 | Registered: Aug 2008 | From: Ohio
UnexpectedSong
♀ Member
Member # 21761
Default  Posted: 1:04 PM, April 27th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Razor -

She say that any WS that say they did not enjoy they A is lying

Why would you doubt this? Of course there was enjoyment of the affair. If there were no upside, people would not engage in affairs.

That doesn't mean it's right and it doesn't mean I don't look back with disgust and horror.

You have heard the analogy with an addiction, right? You know getting that fix is wrong, that it's temporary, that it won't help anything, but you just want that smoke/drink/vial/cookie/whatever.

If an affair only felt like cleaning the toilet, no one would have one.


WW(SA)
"Feedback is the breakfast of champions." - Boris Becker

Posts: 6046 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: California
UnexpectedSong
♀ Member
Member # 21761
Default  Posted: 1:07 PM, April 27th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

nothereorthere -

My FWS admits that I treat his mother well and she is the one that has the problem, but he dosen't like me saying to him that he should speak up to her when she says the things she does to me

Well, you can't make him change. You can only decide how you will deal with it (ignore, confront, etc.) and for however long she is still in your life.


WW(SA)
"Feedback is the breakfast of champions." - Boris Becker

Posts: 6046 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: California
nothereorthere
♀ Member
Member # 20530
Default  Posted: 1:15 PM, April 27th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

UnexpectedSong

I understand that I can't make him change. But, you can surely understand why this sends up a red flag for me. I feel if he can still say that the things his family said about me had an impact on him having an affair, then as long as he remains passive with them doing so,then our marriage is still in jeopardy.

[This message edited by nothereorthere at 1:15 PM, April 27th (Tuesday)]


Posts: 81 | Registered: Aug 2008 | From: Ohio
UnexpectedSong
♀ Member
Member # 21761
Default  Posted: 1:23 PM, April 27th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

nothereorthere -

I feel if he can still say that the things his family said about me had an impact on him having an affair

Two separate issues...

(1) His blameshifting of his affair onto his parents' comments.

(2) Not standing up for you in general when his mother makes disparaging remarks about you.

You want him to own the affair, right? The second issue is manageable?

If this is the case, then focus on the first issue. Don't confound it with the second.

Why did he have the affair? Oppportunity, validation, self esteem, selfish, blah blah blah. Has he explored this at all?


WW(SA)
"Feedback is the breakfast of champions." - Boris Becker

Posts: 6046 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: California
nothereorthere
♀ Member
Member # 20530
Default  Posted: 1:28 PM, April 27th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

UnexpectedSong

And when she makes nasty comments to me about the A? They are directed at me and worded to hurt me, yet her son is the one that had the A. So, is it okay when he sits there and says nothing then???

As for owning the A, he says he had problems then and alot of stuff was bothering him that effected him having the A. AND, I feel by not changing the way he allows his family to crap all over me and our marriage that he is ignoring something that needs changing. Something that helped get him to the A point.

[This message edited by nothereorthere at 1:30 PM, April 27th (Tuesday)]


Posts: 81 | Registered: Aug 2008 | From: Ohio
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