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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: BS Questions for WS's IV
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 12:27 PM, July 24th (Saturday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

thegreatwife -

Why would he rather be by himself

Because for this to continue to work...

He is still in phone contact with OW

...he needs to be free of responsibility. Ditching not only a BS but the kids frees up a WS to focus on one thing - the fantasy relationship with the OP. The relationship with the OP can take on "dating like" qualities. Excitement over something as simple as dinner out, dressing up, using pet names, the works. Kids, well, they just complicate that equation.

The irony is that in some situations the WS plays up what a great parent they are. They'll talk about the things they've done in the past to be there for their kids, all the while ignoring their kids needs to focus on the OP.

In the fog of an A, all family members are set aside to focus on the OP alone. And in doing so, all relationships are damaged in the process.


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
thegreatwife
♀ Member
Member # 28119
Default  Posted: 9:13 PM, July 24th (Saturday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

So does it ever end? If the A is so wonderful, why would it end? I know affairs end, but what caused them to end in your case? How did the fog lift?
I keep hearing how an affair has to play itself out but if someone could explain that I would certainly appreciate it.


Me - Faithful Spouse 44
Him - WS 44
Married - 20 yrs
Together - 25 years
D Day 12/30/09
EA/PA - 18 mos

"Those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind." But what truly matters is what *you* think." Dr. Seuss


Posts: 125 | Registered: Apr 2010
thegreatwife
♀ Member
Member # 28119
Default  Posted: 7:15 AM, July 25th (Sunday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

By the way, I mean how did the affair end in your own mind not how you were discovered or AP did not want to see you anymore, etc.
How did you let go of the affair in your own thoughts?


Me - Faithful Spouse 44
Him - WS 44
Married - 20 yrs
Together - 25 years
D Day 12/30/09
EA/PA - 18 mos

"Those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind." But what truly matters is what *you* think." Dr. Seuss


Posts: 125 | Registered: Apr 2010
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 9:42 AM, July 25th (Sunday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

It was a gradual process, thegreatwife. For me, it happened over a period of about 5 months. It was a progressive shift in my focus from xMOW toward my BW and our kids.

The basics (NC, transparency, IC) laid down the foundation. As they became habit for me, so did letting go of xMOW.


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
bdotoole
♀ New Member
Member # 25213
Default  Posted: 1:36 PM, July 27th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I know this has been touched on but it's so hard to understand for us BSs...hoping WSs will lend more insight........why is NC (only phone/text after dday for 6 weeks) so hard. This is the person you used to help break our hearts....why why why go back for more conversation /contact...can't WSs see that hurts worse than the affair sometimes......If you are leaving the affair and want to reconcile...why ever want to return a text/email. phone call.....is the draw - addiction really that strong ??? This still just blows me away that he would not see this before doing it......insight please.....

Posts: 25 | Registered: Aug 2009
EmptyCup
♀ Member
Member # 22909
Default  Posted: 1:45 PM, July 27th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

bdotoole -

If you are leaving the affair and want to reconcile...why ever want to return a text/email. phone call.....is the draw - addiction really that strong ???

Yes, but it isn't about the AP, it's about the broken WS.

For me, the draw was so strong because of my own flaws. I had lousy self-esteem and depended on external validation to feel good about myself. Since I didn't know how to find worth within myself, what I was getting from the OM had an enormous power over me. My ability to lie to myself and not think about things that bothered me allowed me to keep going back selfishly for a fix of the thing that made me feel good.

It ALL traces back to the flaws within the WS.


FWW, reconciled with my best friend <3

Nothing much but love to give you, even less have I to hide - Tim O'Brien


Posts: 1140 | Registered: Feb 2009
Card
♂ Member
Member # 23667
Default  Posted: 8:44 PM, July 27th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

bdotoole

A wayward spouse (active and/or fogged out) does not care about the pain they cause the betrayed spouse, they are only concerned about themselves.
Selfish & Entitled!


WH (me)
BS (her)

D-Days April - Oct. 2007 Recovery started Nov. 2007

"Found Myself", I was right there in my shoes all along!
Search for self called off!

Why Repentance Is Necessary? Because Undeserved Mercy Empowers Entitlement/Sin


Posts: 570 | Registered: Apr 2009
Kwills
♀ Member
Member # 13172
Default  Posted: 10:38 PM, July 27th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

......If you are leaving the affair and want to reconcile...why ever want to return a text/email. phone call.....is the draw - addiction really that strong ???

I will only speak for myself--yes the draw was that strong. For the first time in my life I truly understood what addiction was. Ihated what I was doing but I did it anyway. I am all about control in my life, and this was the first time I ever felt like I lost control. It is a hard thing to explain--the only thing I can think could come close and is a rather common experience is trying to not check your cell phone for text messages or voice messages for an entire week when you are positively attached to the darned thing. That panicky, compulsive feeling is a minor version of it. But as the days go on that feeling gets less intense, as it does when NC is maintained.

I wouldn't wish the emotional experience of a WS on anyone, truly. It was it's own version of hell.

Kwills


Posts: 1052 | Registered: Jan 2007
Heath
♂ Member
Member # 28992
Default  Posted: 10:58 PM, July 27th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Do the WS's ever fully realize the damage done to the BS's self esteem?

I was one of the most self confident men around. Everyone used to say that about me. Even WW told me on the phone just the other day that she sees me as being very self confident.

Problem is, all self esteem has been disintegrated.

Did it ever hit you? Like, what have I done to my spouses heart?


"It's only after we've lost everything that we are free to do anything'.

Posts: 123 | Registered: Jul 2010 | From: Australia
EmptyCup
♀ Member
Member # 22909
Default  Posted: 11:16 AM, July 28th (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Heath -

Did it ever hit you? Like, what have I done to my spouses heart?

Awww, you've made me teary. This is the worst thing. It's not in the forefront of my mind every minute, but every so often something will happen and I can SEE a change I made in my BH and it breaks my heart.


FWW, reconciled with my best friend <3

Nothing much but love to give you, even less have I to hide - Tim O'Brien


Posts: 1140 | Registered: Feb 2009
UnexpectedSong
♀ Member
Member # 21761
Default  Posted: 12:42 PM, July 28th (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Heath -

Do the WS's ever fully realize the damage done to the BS's self esteem?

I hope you get counseling to learn and believe that the affair had nothing to do with you. If you can believe that, then you will know that you have no reason for your self esteem to take any hit.

In my case, I do understand that I hurt my husband badly. But, I don't think his self esteem took a permanent hit. Yes, it hurt initially, but the OM has nothing on my husband. I was the one who was broken. I would have cheated on my husband, whomever he was, when the right situation presented itself.

I believe that my H knows that the xOM was nothing. Absolutely nothing. Just a vehicle for my own issues.

He didn't cause it.
He cannot control it.
He cannot cure it.

You need to learn and believe it. It's not you. Really.


WW(SA)
"Feedback is the breakfast of champions." - Boris Becker

Posts: 6046 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: California
the fsc
♂ Member
Member # 23028
Default  Posted: 9:46 AM, July 29th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Heath,

I recently posted about this topic, so it’s fresh on my mind. At some point in R your WW will need to recognize that the reason for her A had nothing to do with you, but all to do with her. I double U-Song’s statement. During most of our R process to date, I had continued to tell RR whether directly, or implied, that the reason I had an A was because of her. It was simply a physical relationship with another woman to meet the needs that had not been met. I acknowledged that I chose to take all the steps necessary to proceed with the A…that it was a decision that I made, and not just a mistake. But I failed to recognize the complete assholiness in this logic. It took me a long time to understand just how damaging it was to her self-esteem…and how damaging it will always be. Your WW will see this at some point…that it is all because of her, and not you. If she has issues with the marriage…if she has needs that aren’t or haven’t been met, then it is strictly HER responsibility to work on them with you and ONLY you. I’m sure she has faults as well. None of us is perfect. But you never chose to take your problems with her outside the M.

Fundamentally, WS’s had needs that weren’t being met in the marriage. Instead of working them out with our spouses, we took those problems outside…and that’s why we are all part of this unfortunate (but at the same time wonderful) club called SI. You will need to continue to convince yourself that you aren’t the reason, just as WW needs to convince herself that she and ONLY she…was the reason.


WH - (45) Me
BS - (44) Her (Redrock)

D Day 3/23/2008
Easter


Posts: 165 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Michigan
cantbelieve
♀ Member
Member # 22028
Default  Posted: 12:22 PM, July 29th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I've got a post in Reconciliation, but wanted to ask WS a questions. After discussing why he needs to continue IC to find out why he did this. His IC mentioned that it is hard to know exactly why with so many variables in the equation. He was lost to me and our family and made a bad choice. Last night he told me that he could not promise or guarantee to me that it would never happen again, but by working on our marriage and making sure we are both happy, he doesn't want to go back there. WS, if you are truly remorseful can you promise it will never happen again, or do we BS just have to believe there are no guarantees in life?


Me: BS (57)
Him: WS (58)
LTA 4 years with co-worker
DS(26)
DD(23)
DD(19)
Married 28 years
D-day1 5/08
D-day2 11/08
Status: 6 yrs and wondering if I'll ever be truly happy again

Posts: 1044 | Registered: Dec 2008 | From: DFW
Kwills
♀ Member
Member # 13172
Default  Posted: 10:30 PM, July 29th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

WS, if you are truly remorseful can you promise it will never happen again, or do we BS just have to believe there are no guarantees in life?

I am of the belief that I cannot predict the future. I can promise that I will do my best to maintain boundaries, avoid bad situations, & to stay as emotionallly healthy as I can. That is all I can do. My FBS says that he cannot guarantee that he would never have an A,and I certainly accept and understand that. More than I would accept a statement or promise that he would never do that. I think your FWH is being honest.

Kwills


Posts: 1052 | Registered: Jan 2007
skybluesky
♀ Member
Member # 27817
Default  Posted: 1:21 PM, July 30th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Unexpectedsong - this is exceptionally hard for this BS to do. Thanks for sharing your insights though - maybe somehow, some way your words of wisdom will sink in some day. For now, it still hurts.

Posts: 457 | Registered: Mar 2010
the fsc
♂ Member
Member # 23028
Default  Posted: 2:00 PM, July 30th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

cantbelieve,

WS, if you are truly remorseful can you promise it will never happen again, or do we BS just have to believe there are no guarantees in life?

It's both...

We all made that promise when we got married, but failed to keep it when we chose to have an A. I want to truly believe that all ex-waywards will be even less likely to do it again based on what we experienced the first time...but we all know that it's possible, and we've all seen cases here on SI where it's happened. We can promise and re-commit to our BS's...we can be even better spouses than we were prior to the A's. But there are never any guarantees in life, either. So I guess the answer to your question is both. I think that your WH CAN and SHOULD promise you that it will never happen again. In fact, I think it was a crappy thing for him to tell you that he couldn't. BUT...I also believe that you should be that much more alert to potential A type behaviors based on what you have already survived.

No guarantees...but we all can and SHOULD make that promise.


WH - (45) Me
BS - (44) Her (Redrock)

D Day 3/23/2008
Easter


Posts: 165 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Michigan
Tried23
♀ Member
Member # 21076
Default  Posted: 2:24 PM, July 30th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Cantbelieve

Last night he told me that he could not promise or guarantee to me that it would never happen again, but by working on our marriage and making sure we are both happy, he doesn't want to go back there.

I believe he can make the promise that it won't happen again. Him saying he can't make this promise is basically the same as him saying I don't respect you enough to leave you before entering another relationship.

I respect my BS enough to be able to make this promise to him. He deserves this respect.

Your BS making this statement just struck me as so wrong in so many ways. I'm wondering if he is trying to say something more along the lines of, "I need to see if I am willing to stay in this marriage based on the changes that have taken place." Just some thoughts.


Me: FWS (me) 48
Husband: BS 44
Married: 14 Years, 2 kids (14 and 13)
D-Day 1: 07/27/08
D-Day 2: 4/15/09 Same OM
D-Day 3: 3/2/2010 All disclosed
Reconciling

Posts: 375 | Registered: Sep 2008 | From: MN
cantbelieve
♀ Member
Member # 22028
Default  Posted: 4:21 PM, July 30th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks for the replies. I know he made that promise on our wedding day and we all know what happened. But after living through this, the fact that he can't promise me, tells me that he's not sure himself, if he can resist the temptation. That's why I think he needs to continue IC and find out what caused him to make these choices.

If he can't promise me it won't happen again, then what the hell am I still doing here?


Me: BS (57)
Him: WS (58)
LTA 4 years with co-worker
DS(26)
DD(23)
DD(19)
Married 28 years
D-day1 5/08
D-day2 11/08
Status: 6 yrs and wondering if I'll ever be truly happy again

Posts: 1044 | Registered: Dec 2008 | From: DFW
hsgirl99
♀ New Member
Member # 26308
Default  Posted: 5:05 PM, July 30th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I can promise my BS that it won't happen again because, more importantly, I promised MYSELF I wouldn't do it again.

For me, while the EA was fun and exciting at first, it just destroyed me emotionally after a few months...I would try to get the buzz back with someone else online and it was the same cycle. It was like binge drinking every night and then hangover came. And for me, the operant conditioning worked. Like I know not to touch a hot stove, affairs are damaging to me and I don't want it.

I went to IC to fix myself for ME because I knew I didn't want that anymore.

What does it mean when a WS says they can't guarantee they won't? Let's make the marriage good so we won't too? Ehh...I don't know. It really depends on how the WS still feels about the affair I think.


Posts: 26 | Registered: Nov 2009 | From: Deep South
UnexpectedSong
♀ Member
Member # 21761
Default  Posted: 9:52 AM, July 31st (Saturday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Cantbelieve - I second Kwills.

I've told my H that I cannot guarantee that I won't have another affair and he said that no one can guarantee that. He can't say that there are no circumstances under which he wouldn't have one. That doesn't mean we are giving each other free license to do so. It means we are both aware of pitfalls so we communicate and try to have a better marriage.


WW(SA)
"Feedback is the breakfast of champions." - Boris Becker

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