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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: BS Questions for WS's IV
cantbelieve
♀ Member
Member # 22028
Default  Posted: 11:01 AM, July 31st (Saturday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Unfortunately, I think he should be able to guarantee or promise me that he would never do this again. If anything, talk to me and end the marriage before having an affair. He's committed to me and if he can't guarantee that commitment, then I'm not sure I want to keep working this hard.


Me: BS (57)
Him: WS (58)
LTA 4 years with co-worker
DS(26)
DD(23)
DD(19)
Married 28 years
D-day1 5/08
D-day2 11/08
Status: 6 yrs and wondering if I'll ever be truly happy again

Posts: 1044 | Registered: Dec 2008 | From: DFW
UnexpectedSong
♀ Member
Member # 21761
Default  Posted: 12:48 PM, July 31st (Saturday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

You have to be true to what works for you. As you can see, several WSes who answered your question have different perspectives. No one is all wrong or all right. What my H and I have works for us. You do what works for you.

It is your every right and prerogative to tell your H that he cannot stay without a guarantee.


WW(SA)
"Feedback is the breakfast of champions." - Boris Becker

Posts: 6046 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: California
Card
♂ Member
Member # 23667
Default  Posted: 2:32 PM, August 2nd (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

cantbelieve,

Have you looked into a Post-Nup Agreement.

My wife asked for a Post-Nup before she would commit to recovery. It gave her a "peace of mind" that if we divorced she would be well provided for.


WH (me)
BS (her)

D-Days April - Oct. 2007 Recovery started Nov. 2007

"Found Myself", I was right there in my shoes all along!
Search for self called off!

Why Repentance Is Necessary? Because Undeserved Mercy Empowers Entitlement/Sin


Posts: 570 | Registered: Apr 2009
cantbelieve
♀ Member
Member # 22028
Default  Posted: 3:44 PM, August 2nd (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

No, I haven't. Since I've been a SAHM for 22 years, he assured me that no matter what happened, I'd be taken care of. I just figured, if any red flags waved in my face, I'd find a shark-eating divorce attorney and get all my ducks in a row.


Me: BS (57)
Him: WS (58)
LTA 4 years with co-worker
DS(26)
DD(23)
DD(19)
Married 28 years
D-day1 5/08
D-day2 11/08
Status: 6 yrs and wondering if I'll ever be truly happy again

Posts: 1044 | Registered: Dec 2008 | From: DFW
Card
♂ Member
Member # 23667
Default  Posted: 5:51 PM, August 2nd (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

cantbelieve,

A Post-Nup prevents the need for shark attorneys.

In our Post-Nup, my wife receives 100% of the cash value of ALL our assets, alimony until the age of 65 and guaranteed life insurance - if we were to ever divorce.
My wife is a SAHM as well and even with her attorneys (they were the best), she would not have gotten what she was entitled to if we would have actually divorced. My assets were all well protected before my A. Ya, she would have recieved the customary 7 years of alimony, and child support, but that would have been all. A Post-Nup has allowed her to feel safe. She was also able to tell where my heart was when I agreed to sign a Post-Nup.


WH (me)
BS (her)

D-Days April - Oct. 2007 Recovery started Nov. 2007

"Found Myself", I was right there in my shoes all along!
Search for self called off!

Why Repentance Is Necessary? Because Undeserved Mercy Empowers Entitlement/Sin


Posts: 570 | Registered: Apr 2009
TICKED OFF
♀ Member
Member # 8291
Default  Posted: 6:17 PM, August 2nd (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Can a WS truly ever get over an ap IF they continue to work with them or continue to live next door to them?? Can the feelings the WS have fade and ulimately vanish or do you think there will always be some type of feelings if the ap is still in the picute? (even if the a was years ago and is completely over and done with)

Posts: 2389 | Registered: Sep 2005
cantbelieve
♀ Member
Member # 22028
Default  Posted: 10:01 PM, August 2nd (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks Card,

I think about that. Although I don't think he would agree to all of that...you know...just in case. If he can't guarantee or promise me he wouldn't do it again, why would he sign an agreement like that?


Me: BS (57)
Him: WS (58)
LTA 4 years with co-worker
DS(26)
DD(23)
DD(19)
Married 28 years
D-day1 5/08
D-day2 11/08
Status: 6 yrs and wondering if I'll ever be truly happy again

Posts: 1044 | Registered: Dec 2008 | From: DFW
curly1
♀ Member
Member # 29133
Default  Posted: 3:27 AM, August 3rd (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I have a question please. Once the A was over and you started toward R with your W/H did you ever dream about the OP? If you did, how did this make you feel?


Me: BS age 42
Her: FWW age 41
DD: June 2010
Affair carried on underground until mid July 2010. Kicked WW out and then the A ended and NC agreement was made.
August 2010 - NC broken via emails. New NC agreement made.
R is going well so far.

Posts: 277 | Registered: Jul 2010
Card
♂ Member
Member # 23667
Default  Posted: 7:54 AM, August 3rd (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Can a WS truly ever get over an ap IF they continue to work with them or continue to live next door to them?? Can the feelings the WS have fade and ulimately vanish or do you think there will always be some type of feelings if the ap is still in the picute? (even if the a was years ago and is completely over and done with)

TickedOff,

A WS will trigger everytime they see their AP. IMVHO, what's even worse is the mental anguish that the BS must deal with every time they know their spouse is going to see the AP again.

I don't believe recovery can occur with WS and AP still seeing each other.


WH (me)
BS (her)

D-Days April - Oct. 2007 Recovery started Nov. 2007

"Found Myself", I was right there in my shoes all along!
Search for self called off!

Why Repentance Is Necessary? Because Undeserved Mercy Empowers Entitlement/Sin


Posts: 570 | Registered: Apr 2009
Card
♂ Member
Member # 23667
Default  Posted: 8:06 AM, August 3rd (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I have a question please. Once the A was over and you started toward R with your W/H did you ever dream about the OP? If you did, how did this make you feel?

Curly,

We all have dreams. I personally consider 99% of them to be of little to no value.

To answer your question, I had several dreams about OW early in recovery, though I don't remember the details of the dream, I can tell you I felt much anxiety upon awakening.

Regretfully, my wife still has nightmares about me having another affair. She always wakes me up and asks me to hold her. I'm so greatful she allows me to be her comfort.

[This message edited by Card at 8:06 AM, August 3rd (Tuesday)]


WH (me)
BS (her)

D-Days April - Oct. 2007 Recovery started Nov. 2007

"Found Myself", I was right there in my shoes all along!
Search for self called off!

Why Repentance Is Necessary? Because Undeserved Mercy Empowers Entitlement/Sin


Posts: 570 | Registered: Apr 2009
BaxtersBFF
♂ Member
Member # 26859
Default  Posted: 5:16 PM, August 3rd (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

TICKED OFF,

Can a WS truly ever get over an ap IF they continue to work with them or continue to live next door to them??
I would imagine that it would be quite difficult. Depends on the circumstances though.
Can the feelings the WS have fade and ulimately vanish or do you think there will always be some type of feelings if the ap is still in the picute? (even if the a was years ago and is completely over and done with)
I believe the feelings will diminish. But then, think about all the stories on here about XGF and XBF.

As the WH, I would change jobs. I wouldn't be able to handle it, I don't know how the BS handles it.


WH - 44
BW - gerrygirl

Posts: 6048 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Boise
BaxtersBFF
♂ Member
Member # 26859
Default  Posted: 5:22 PM, August 3rd (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

curly1,

Once the A was over and you started toward R with your W/H did you ever dream about the OP? If you did, how did this make you feel?
Yes, I have had dreams about OW, both during the EA and after. It makes me feel uncomfortable to say the least. Each time it feels like a setback.


WH - 44
BW - gerrygirl

Posts: 6048 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Boise
MissesJai
♀ Member
Member # 24849
Default  Posted: 5:28 PM, August 3rd (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Ticked ~
Can a WS truly ever get over an ap IF they continue to work with them or continue to live next door to them??
Having never been in that situation, I can't say, but I just don't see how it would be possible.
Can the feelings the WS have fade and ulimately vanish or do you think there will always be some type of feelings if the ap is still in the picute?
if the AP is still in the picture, again, I just don't see how that's possible.

Curly ~

Once the A was over and you started toward R with your W/H did you ever dream about the OP?
Yep, in the beginning.
If you did, how did this make you feel?
Felt like a nightmare...tons of anxiety...all negative feelings...I never remembered much, but it didn't matter at that point....


FWW - 40
Nobody can make you feel inferior without your consent...

Posts: 5528 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: So Cal.....
curly1
♀ Member
Member # 29133
Default  Posted: 2:37 AM, August 4th (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thank you for your answers. It is incredibly helpful to be able to see things from the wayward persons perspective.


Me: BS age 42
Her: FWW age 41
DD: June 2010
Affair carried on underground until mid July 2010. Kicked WW out and then the A ended and NC agreement was made.
August 2010 - NC broken via emails. New NC agreement made.
R is going well so far.

Posts: 277 | Registered: Jul 2010
Allgoodnamesgone
♀ Member
Member # 26157
Default  Posted: 8:45 PM, August 4th (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I am so confused.
R has been the consistent goal for us, few bumps along the way with broken NC, trickle truth & lying to me about his whereabouts. Last 4 months have been consistently drama free.
Had a little heart to heart with my H last night and was able to stay positive about R today until I checked his texts on his phone.
Now, H knows I check his paystubs, his EZPass & the phone records, I guess he didn't know I actually read his texts, because he was clearly agitated and asked me how I saw his texts.
He knows I used to have a GPS in his car, but I took it out months ago after we had a huge argument after he discovered the VAR in his car.
(All this surveillance is in large part due to my discovery - by a complete FLUKE- that OW had given him another cell phone after DDay & they were in regular contact for 2 wks before I found out about it. It's also hard to forget that he wouldn't let me listen in on his phone call to break it off with her after that.)
My H was really angry about the VAR - didn't come home that night & was generally making statements about how he doesnt want to live like this.
I told him I wouldn't use the VAR & would take out the GPS (which I did.)
So - the text was sort of vague, but enuf to concern me nonetheless. I wasnt going to say anything to him because we were kind of doing good & I didn't want to mess things up, but at the same time, it really bothered me & I was entering hyper-vigilante mode.
So, I called & asked him about it. He had an answer, which really didn't make too much sense to me, but he was playing a team sport (I know, I know....) and couldn't really talk, but he was clearly agitated with me.
So, the question...
What is your reaction to this kind of surveillance, lack of privacy, etc.
Obviously, no one would like it. But, at what point do you start thinking this has got to end? I'm just going to leave it hear for fear of rambling any further.
Looking forward to your insight!

[This message edited by Allgoodnamesgone at 8:49 PM, August 4th (Wednesday)]


Me- BS
DDay- 8/26/09
Separated after failed R effort.

Posts: 2165 | Registered: Nov 2009
MelisssaZZZ
♀ Member
Member # 25953
Default  Posted: 9:34 AM, August 5th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hey guys - you alwyas have such a wonderful insight.. therefore I thought I'll past my and H email correspondence.. an ask for your opinions!

1) Do you see any remorse there (me - I dont)
2) I see there justifications
3) what to say to him to make him understand that these are justifications?

This is my email to H...

You wanted to hear about my insecurities often – so here you go – today..

I feel really insecure because I know you don’t love me.. you claimed you loved me at the time you started the affair. So, I wonder what are you capable now when you don’t love me.

My insecurity has been fed regularly by your regular contact, looking trash up and breaking the agreements / promises over and over again. Every time of yet another betrayal comes in it sets my insecurities in even further downward spiral. Also, the fact you do not express any remorse (or at least I don’t see you expressing it) makes it even worse – like you completely don’t care about my feelings at all. You knowingly do things you know will hurt me… you say that things which would help me are very difficult for you to do.. I don’t see any compassion, any sympathy from you – that is how the insecurities grow and grow.. actually since the discovery my insecurities have grown massively and are still on the way up.. I mean the insecurities with you..

You ripped off something we both had.. and it seems to me that it seems insignificant for your. Because you find it extremely difficult to apologise for it! The bottom line is that you don’t really care enough for what you have done to do the amends then what is it there to trust.. That sends me a message that you are not invested at all and do not value this relationship. The A and this attitude sends me a message that what you would really want to do is to flush this relationship down the toilet.. and how can I trust anyone who has proved willing to flush me in toilet (by affair) and is not even feeling remorseful?

And before you ask me what do I want to do now… I wanted to ask you – do you think you can find a remorse and appreciation in your heart for the people you have hurt?

his response below...


yes, im pretty sure I can.


Your email below puts you in your favourite seat - that of the victim. Now, I fully acknowledge that you are a victim of what I did to you. I am responsible for what I did, no question there.


I also know you only focus on results, and that conveniently allows you to skip over your contribution in all of this. You usually blow up in anger when I say this, but let me take a simplified example to illustrate my point.
Imagine I was alcoholic, and trying to shake off the addiction. Now imagine that for the first few months after my starting recovery, you went to the shop and got a few bottles of wine, every day, and put them next to me.
Me drinking or not is entirely my decision. But you getting the wine isnt exactly helping. Now imagine further that I drink to run away from the relationship I have with you. And that, when I tell you how difficult it is for me when you get the wine, you tell me to "shut up and take it as a man" to use your words - its only fair I was hurt too, given how much pain you had suffered already. Drinking or not is still my decision. But do you see how much harder you would make my recovery?


So yes, I had some contact since August (I wouldnt call twice in 12 months 'regular' though), yes I looked at her msn page a few times, and yes you feel insecure because of that. Would have been better if I hadnt. But then again, would have been better if you had known how to talk to me, if you were able to always listen constructively, if anger wasnt your primary mode of talking. My point here isnt to run away from my responsibilities, or from what I have done to you, but to show how reality is a lot more nuanced that what you paint it as. None of us is perfect. I guess what I'm driving at is that I believe you own part (maybe a small part?) of your own insecurity. Just as I do.


Me BS - 37
WH 39
1 child - 4yrs
married 5 yrs, together 7
DD1 midmarch 09
DD2 early june 09
some more DD's of course - cannot bother to list
LTA (2 yrs) fully?? finished mid Aug 09
Status: Divorced Oct 2011

Posts: 1199 | Registered: Oct 2009 | From: London, UK
BaxtersBFF
♂ Member
Member # 26859
Default  Posted: 12:49 PM, August 5th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

MelisssaZZZ,

180.

Based on his response, he isn't getting any of this. If I had that attitude I would be divorced right now.

sorry, but I think the SI terms that best apply are blameshifting and gaslighting.


WH - 44
BW - gerrygirl

Posts: 6048 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Boise
UnexpectedSong
♀ Member
Member # 21761
Default  Posted: 1:07 PM, August 5th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Allgood -

What is your reaction to this kind of surveillance, lack of privacy, etc.

I hated it, but I knew it was necessary. I would never ask my H when he would be ready to stop - he has to do what he has to do to feel safe.

Now, since you found a text, or any kind of communication (vague or otherwise) at all between him and OW, is that a dealbreaker for you?


WW(SA)
"Feedback is the breakfast of champions." - Boris Becker

Posts: 6046 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: California
Allgoodnamesgone
♀ Member
Member # 26157
Default  Posted: 4:47 PM, August 5th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thank you for your response - it was not a text between him & OW.

While I hate to announce dealbreakers (I've been known to say it's over more than once - all with just cause - but still...) if I found he was still talking, etc to OW almost a year later, it would be O.V.E.R.

This was a text to a coworker & it sounded like he was plotting something - not necessarily with OW - but I wouldn't rule it out either.
He gave me an explanation this morning which is not 100%, but close enough.

[This message edited by Allgoodnamesgone at 4:48 PM, August 5th (Thursday)]


Me- BS
DDay- 8/26/09
Separated after failed R effort.

Posts: 2165 | Registered: Nov 2009
bdotoole
♀ New Member
Member # 25213
Default  Posted: 1:48 PM, August 6th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I posted this in length under reconciliation but was interested in WS comments so here goes....emailing old girlfriends from 30 yrs ago...if you are a WS would you think this is appropriate no matter how generic or infrequent the content is? If the contact recently turned more personal in that comments were made about the old college romance vs just hows the hubby and kids ect....as a WS that wants to reconcile.....is this appropriate in any manner? I have voiced my "concern" to FWH and he says I am living in the world of what ifs vs the here & now....he said he understands my slippery slope comcept but thinks I am still overreacting insight from a remourseful WS please ......

Posts: 25 | Registered: Aug 2009
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