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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: BS Questions for WS's IV
UnexpectedSong
♀ Member
Member # 21761
Default  Posted: 11:48 AM, March 1st (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hope4better -

So now I'm thinking, maybe he has changed. Is it that simple for some waywards? [...]

I know I shouldn't care and need to let it go but it is very hard even after being D for almost 3years.

I am sorry you are in such pain still. What do you need in order to let go? If you got confirmation that he cheated again, will that help you?


WW(SA)
"Feedback is the breakfast of champions." - Boris Becker

Posts: 6046 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: California
UnexpectedSong
♀ Member
Member # 21761
Default  Posted: 11:53 AM, March 1st (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

PiQue -

I tried to just present the evidence as facts

When I am seeing positive steps on his part, should I just keep my big mouth shut?

I feel like, and have told him, all the fallout from the A is like a festering abscess

Maybe what you need to do is stop being polite. Yell at him, rage at him. I don't think he's the one to lance the poison. You have to do it for yourself.


WW(SA)
"Feedback is the breakfast of champions." - Boris Becker

Posts: 6046 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: California
UnexpectedSong
♀ Member
Member # 21761
Default  Posted: 11:59 AM, March 1st (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

SouthernGal -

Other BS's have told me that I am essentially stupid to believe that he loved me during the A.


But I want to know from WS's, particularly those who are trying to R with their BS ... Am I being stupidly naive?

Is it, theoretically possible that his affair had nothing to do with loving or not loving me and everything to do with a selfish desire to get his "needs" met and not having the guts to work through the issues that were keeping us from filling one another's needs

If you have read here for any length of time at all, you should have read a lot of Waywards posting that they have never stopped loving their spouses. Their affairs were not because they wanted out of the marriage.

Does someone become an alcoholic because they stopped loving their spouse? Sure, some may drink to numb their pain, but most are alcoholics because of an internal emptiness that needed to be filled. It had nothing to do with the marriage.

An affair is not much different.


WW(SA)
"Feedback is the breakfast of champions." - Boris Becker

Posts: 6046 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: California
hope4better
♀ Member
Member # 14919
Default  Posted: 2:27 PM, March 1st (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

What do you need in order to let go? If you got confirmation that he cheated again, will that help you?

It seems that way unexpectedsong. That seems to be the only thing that would confirm that it wasn't me. I will however, probably never get that so now I have to try to learn to live with the very strong possibility that it was me. I'm not saying that it's ALL my fault but that I had an unitentional big roll in it. That fact only brings regret on my part.


Me: BW-35
Him: WH-35
Kids: 13 and 2yrs (both kids are his)
DDay #1: Summer of 1998 (ow#1)
DDay #2: Summer of 2003 (ow#2)
DDay #3: Summer of 2004 (ow#3)
DDay #4: Summer of 2005 (ow#4 21yr old) He kept this one
Married: 6yrs Divorced: 2007

Posts: 932 | Registered: Jun 2007 | From: midwest
SouthernGal
♀ Member
Member # 27315
Default  Posted: 2:30 PM, March 1st (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

UnexpectedSong,

Thank you very much for you point of view. It is very helpful.


BS (Me) XWH (him) M nearly 16 yrs
1 DD (teens)
D-day #1 12/09, #2 2/10
Divorced 10/6/10

Posts: 3862 | Registered: Jan 2010 | From: The Deep (Fried) South
MissesJai
♀ Member
Member # 24849
Default  Posted: 2:34 PM, March 1st (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Do you view your affair partner as a 'disgusting' human being?

Not really...I don't think of him at all...I think more about my actions and like Song, he was just a willing participant....

Have any of you not enjoyed the sexual experiences with the OP?

Yep. When it came time to actually have sex, I did not enjoy it at all. I enjoyed being able to seduce him, and that was a turn on, but the sex itself was, meh, at best.. It was just part of the package deal – seduce, seduce, seduce, and eventually, have sex. When it came to light how bad the sex was, then I became all about the seduction process. I continued to have sex with him because, well, I could… Honestly, I could have done without it altogether….

[This message edited by MissesJai at 2:36 PM, March 1st (Monday)]


FWW - 40
Nobody can make you feel inferior without your consent...

Posts: 5532 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: So Cal.....
UnexpectedSong
♀ Member
Member # 21761
Default  Posted: 2:43 PM, March 1st (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

hope4better -

I will however, probably never get that so now I have to try to learn to live with the very strong possibility that it was me.

What will it take for you to believe that it was not you? Isn't that statement being repeated over and over again on this website sufficient? Isn't the knowledge that you were in the same marriage, yet you didn't cheat sufficient? Don't all the broken Waywards help you understand that?

Of course it wasn't you. You were the passenger in the car. You were the innocent bystander. You were the aftermath. You were never the reason he cheated.

[This message edited by UnexpectedSong at 2:45 PM, March 1st (Monday)]


WW(SA)
"Feedback is the breakfast of champions." - Boris Becker

Posts: 6046 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: California
crushed again
♀ Member
Member # 26138
Default  Posted: 3:54 PM, March 1st (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hoping for an answer here- even if the A was over and things were good with your BS how much did you continue to think about the OP? Also, did you resent the whole 'transparency' thing. There are certain songs I make my WH turn off because I KNOW they have something to do with the OW. He just sighs and turns them off. Also if I say something about his phone (they were, (Maybe still are??!) big into texting eachother, he'll get mad as 1st reaction. Then he'll apologize but say I feel like you're my Mother. Even with nothing to hide did you ever resent 'being checked up on?" Thank-you.


"Don't you worry your pretty little mind because people throw rocks at things that shine!"
~I guess living in limbo is my "new normal"- stinks!~

Posts: 713 | Registered: Nov 2009 | From: Dreaming of a far better place!
nlovemyfamily
♀ Member
Member # 15258
Default  Posted: 6:15 PM, March 1st (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

if you could talk to an active WS about what you know now, what would you say? Is the hindsight idea correct about not really understanding the devastation and how unrealistic conditions were while in A, while you put yourself before spouse and family?

Posts: 415 | Registered: Jul 2007 | From: nj
PiQue
♀ Member
Member # 17575
Default  Posted: 10:24 PM, March 1st (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Maybe what you need to do is stop being polite. Yell at him, rage at him. I don't think he's the one to lance the poison. You have to do it for yourself.

Thanks, UE. Even when I talk softly, if it's not what he want to hear, he perceives it as me 'screaming' at him, and he shuts down.

Rage, well, that wouldn't be so good, either. I've spent the better part of my life trying to control my temper. WH has anger management issues, too. It wouldn't be pleasant. Things would break.

I get your drift about lancing the abscess myself. I think if I had the whole truth I could deal with it better. The suspicions are killing me. Knowing the pathology of the poison would enable me to eradicate it, or at least manage it.


Me/BW 50+
Him/WH 60+ Long Distance LTA
NEVER ignore your gut.


Posts: 2881 | Registered: Jan 2008 | From: Mid-Atlantic Region
hope4better
♀ Member
Member # 14919
Default  Posted: 10:25 PM, March 1st (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

What will it take for you to believe that it was not you? Isn't that statement being repeated over and over again on this website sufficient? Isn't the knowledge that you were in the same marriage, yet you didn't cheat sufficient? Don't all the broken Waywards help you understand that?

I honestly don't believe so. Why? I honestly don't know. Guess I'm just broken in mind and spirit.

Of course it wasn't you. You were the passenger in the car. You were the innocent bystander. You were the aftermath. You were never the reason he cheated.

Someday I hope to heal enough to believe and accept this, right now, I just don't.

Thank you for taking the time to respond unexpectedsong.


Me: BW-35
Him: WH-35
Kids: 13 and 2yrs (both kids are his)
DDay #1: Summer of 1998 (ow#1)
DDay #2: Summer of 2003 (ow#2)
DDay #3: Summer of 2004 (ow#3)
DDay #4: Summer of 2005 (ow#4 21yr old) He kept this one
Married: 6yrs Divorced: 2007

Posts: 932 | Registered: Jun 2007 | From: midwest
UnexpectedSong
♀ Member
Member # 21761
Default  Posted: 12:17 PM, March 2nd (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

nlovemyfamily -

if you could talk to an active WS about what you know now, what would you say?

Nothing I say would make a difference. Did you know how much pain betrayal caused? Do your friends who are not in the same position know? It's no different for anyone else.

People don't learn from others' experiences, only their own.

What I would do is support them after the fallout.


WW(SA)
"Feedback is the breakfast of champions." - Boris Becker

Posts: 6046 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: California
UnexpectedSong
♀ Member
Member # 21761
Default  Posted: 12:21 PM, March 2nd (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

crushed again -

Even with nothing to hide did you ever resent 'being checked up on?"

No, not at all. I actually have the opposite problem right now. With all the BCC-ing and telling him of what's going on that I do with my husband, I expect him to know everything about my life and when he doesn't (because I don't think he reads my emails - one of my issues from pre-A), I get upset.

(they were, (Maybe still are??!) big into texting eachother

If they are still texting, you have issues greater than merely resentment over transparency.


WW(SA)
"Feedback is the breakfast of champions." - Boris Becker

Posts: 6046 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: California
crushed again
♀ Member
Member # 26138
Default  Posted: 12:34 PM, March 2nd (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thank-you UnexpectedSong. If there is any contact it's always been OW fishing. But WH still feels the need 'to protect her' and take the blame. Yes, you're right- if he's answering back we do have bigger problems, but I don't think he does, I'm ALWAYS checking now. Guess I will never trust him again and that is just another problem. Take care.


"Don't you worry your pretty little mind because people throw rocks at things that shine!"
~I guess living in limbo is my "new normal"- stinks!~

Posts: 713 | Registered: Nov 2009 | From: Dreaming of a far better place!
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 12:49 PM, March 2nd (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

crushed again -

For me your questions would have very different answers depending on whether I was in or out of the fog.

During the fog xMOW was still an active part of my thought process. I felt guilt toward her for stringing her along when I never had any intention of leaving my M. And certain events would be triggers for me, reminding me of her.

While I wasn't pushed on the transparency front, had I been back then my guess is I would have been defensive and reluctant. Even if nothing was happening, I had just come off of a stretch where I had worked hard to hide my communications. That habit does not get broken in hours or days. It takes longer.

When my fog lifted, my view of the world did too. I can't say that I never think about xMOW. It was a part of my life, and like other events in my life it's a memory that is not going to simply go away. But the emotions I attach to those moments when the memory surfaces are very different now. xMOW was (maybe still is) a predator with regard to married men. She knows going in she is going after guys attached to someone else. So if she doesn't end up with a prince in the end, well, my feeling now is she should have learned a long time ago about the results of her own choices. I own my choices and I am not proud of them in any way. But the larger hurt I caused was to my BW, and she is the one I must "protect" and focus on for the rest of my life.

The morning after my fog lifted completely, I turned over access to all communications vehicles to my BW. Passwords to all accounts, openly showing my Blackberry any time my BW wants to see it. I have to say she doesn't take me up on it much. But I will be prepared at any moment to show her what's there without hesitation.

There may be nothing going on between your WH and the OW, but for me it sounds like he is still miles deep in his fog. He hasn't fully cleared his vision to see the impact of his choices and likely does not fully own his shit yet. Until he does, your vigilance in watching his communications is a necessary evil.


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
crushed again
♀ Member
Member # 26138
Default  Posted: 2:50 PM, March 2nd (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thank-you Listeningclosely!
You always answer BS questions nicely. Yes, there probably IS still some fog left over. I still pray for the day he sees the 'full impact' of what this has done. It's funny but I felt he 'owned up' right after D-day but as time goes on I feel he is wondering why I'm taking so long to heal. As for being vigilant about his communications I have been but am getting tired of it. IF we are lucky enough to fully R we have a LONG road ahead...


"Don't you worry your pretty little mind because people throw rocks at things that shine!"
~I guess living in limbo is my "new normal"- stinks!~

Posts: 713 | Registered: Nov 2009 | From: Dreaming of a far better place!
TICKED OFF
♀ Member
Member # 8291
Default  Posted: 5:37 PM, March 2nd (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Does a WS truly believe that they can cheat on their spouse and then come back to a happy marriage r or not?

I am the BS, but IF I WERE the WS, I don't think I would expect to have a happy marriage or at least a special marriage after I had cheated. It just doesn't seem logical or reasonable. If this is the case, does the WS just become content with what the BS can now offer them in the marriage or do they stay for other reasons?


Posts: 2390 | Registered: Sep 2005
BaxtersBFF
♂ Member
Member # 26859
Default  Posted: 9:04 PM, March 2nd (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

TICKED OFF,

Does a WS truly believe that they can cheat on their spouse and then come back to a happy marriage r or not?
No. I don't think this is the belief that brings the WS back to the M or makes the WS want to R.

I am the BS, but IF I WERE the WS, I don't think I would expect to have a happy marriage or at least a special marriage after I had cheated. It just doesn't seem logical or reasonable.
I didn't expect to have a happy marriage and to some degree, I still don't. That is a fear that many WS have I think. That there M will never be special again, that the magic will never return, never be found. But...I think many WS HOPE that this will be the case. Ultimately, it is up to our BS as to whether or not that hope is fulfilled.

If this is the case, does the WS just become content with what the BS can now offer them in the marriage or do they stay for other reasons?
The fallback idea. My BW and I had a conversation about this today while having lunch. My thoughts on my BW being the fallback (me being content) are that the A is not reality, that it is viewed and associated as an addiction. Once the drug is gone (NC) the WS can begin to see reality. How can the BS be a fallback if they are the truth and the reality?


WH - 44
BW - gerrygirl

Posts: 6061 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Boise
BaxtersBFF
♂ Member
Member # 26859
Default  Posted: 9:08 PM, March 2nd (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

nlovemyfamily,

if you could talk to an active WS about what you know now, what would you say? Is the hindsight idea correct about not really understanding the devastation and how unrealistic conditions were while in A, while you put yourself before spouse and family?
Look at some of the recent locked threads in the Wayward Forum. This is the best example of hindsight for the WS on SI and on what we would say to active WS. I can't believe I was that nuts...


WH - 44
BW - gerrygirl

Posts: 6061 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Boise
BaxtersBFF
♂ Member
Member # 26859
Default  Posted: 9:21 PM, March 2nd (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

crushed again,

even if the A was over and things were good with your BS how much did you continue to think about the OP?
I think it depends on how far out you are from committing to R. Until that day, OW was always there in my head. Since the start of R, OW has waned a lot, but not completely. Someday OW will not be there and I find myself looking forward to that day. So does my BW.

did you resent the whole 'transparency' thing.
Not at all. I expect to be checked up on now. Recently I have opened some new profiles and accounts and have been up front and kept all passwords the same for BW. She still checks and that is fine.

There are certain songs I make my WH turn off because I KNOW they have something to do with the OW. He just sighs and turns them off.
The one constant in my life has been music, whether listening or performing. Yes there are trigger songs for me, but I am working through those. It sounds harsh and not R-like, but I will not edit my music library just to remove triggers. OW and I did not discuss music, so there isn't anything shared. It is all just in my own head and I am working on that.


WH - 44
BW - gerrygirl

Posts: 6061 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Boise
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