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User Topic: BS Questions for WS's IV
Blindbat
♀ Member
Member # 29495
Default  Posted: 4:57 AM, October 15th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thandi, your post resonates somewhat...

Another question from me - is it possible for a WS to be remorseful but still be unsure whether they want to remain married?

I'm almost beginning to think the A was a fit of temper


Noli illegitimi carborundum
Not yet as divorced as I'd like to be :-(

Posts: 713 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: The Land of Chocolate
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 5:52 AM, October 15th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

is it possible for a WS to be remorseful but still be unsure whether they want to remain married?

Yes. Even though remorse may be in place and remorse may drive a WS to work on attempting R, remorse alone does not clear the fog. That requires enough time and distance from the OP to think more clearly about things and see things for how they really are.

Remorse also doesn't mean that there weren't problems in the M prior to the A that still remain unresolved. If the WS is a conflict avoider, these problems may not have been expressed but they still existed.

In either case, remorse allows for the potential of R (lack of remorse ensures R won't be successful), but it doesn't guarantee R will happen.


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
Allgoodnamesgone
♀ Member
Member # 26157
Default  Posted: 6:54 AM, October 15th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm just over 1 year from discovering my H's 1 1/2 year A with a single co-worker.
Despite the length of time they spent together, they never argued. He has never said anything bad about her. She's hot as hell and they had a lot of fun together no strings attached according to my H, but the cell records & the "I love you" texting proves otherwise.

Anyway, I'm having a slower recovery than I would like. I really have stopped asking why & am just feeling numb, I suppose. My H & I had grown apart prior to his A & it worsened significantly due to his behavior during the A. So, we are trying to spend more time together, call each other more, etc. but it just feels so flat. I'm honestly not excited about these things, I'm doing them in the hopes that this is a phase that I need to push through.
This is pretty apparent to my H, tho he says nothing about it. (He really doesn't express emotions.)

Anyway, my question for you:

It seems to me that my H gave up on our M when it started deteriorating and found someone else. He says he didn't think I had any feelings for him, etc. So, now I imagine he should think our M is more doomed than it was before the A - so I would imagine his response will be the same - give up. I've asked him this but he says that this is all his fault & he wants to fix it - that's how it's different now.
My question is have any of you seen this from your BS this far into R & what did your spouse/you/the both of you do to overcome/deal with this?

[This message edited by Allgoodnamesgone at 6:56 AM, October 15th (Friday)]


Me- BS
DDay- 8/26/09
Separated after failed R effort.

Posts: 2165 | Registered: Nov 2009
thandi73
♀ New Member
Member # 29797
Default  Posted: 7:50 AM, October 15th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Leftoolate thanks, I did ask WS how I should support and he said he needs assurance that Im not going to bail and leave him hanging. He said as well that when I ask the questions, it brings all the feelings back out. It just hurts to know the OW had such a profound impact on him. The scary bit is he said he was tormented because he loves us both and in his mind he sees us both.

Blindbat: Im sorry you had to deal with the cuddle mishap. I wonder too if he cuddles with me and thinks about her. The strange thing is I am not angry at both of htem although sometimes triggers work me up so much. Why am I not angry and throwing things? Am I a time bomb waiting to explode? No therapy for us yet(trained marriage counsellors in our corner of the world are a rarity) most people go to their church leaders but we are nto comfortable with that. Online forums like this are a help.


WH 41
Me 37 Married 12 years Kids (8 and 11)
d-day 3/10/2010

Posts: 15 | Registered: Oct 2010
all_torn_up
♀ Member
Member # 13584
Default  Posted: 1:29 PM, October 15th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Question for ws

For those who had multiple affairs when did you stop? When did you truly choose to change yourself and not behave that way again?

After seeingmy devestation over his a the first time I thought we had dealt with all the factors that lead to it. He had an ea while we were doing well and getting along great. He said he never thought of my pain from the first a and that he was going to devestate me again. How does a ws do that? How do you claim to love your bs and still have amother a? I am so lost right now. Any insight would be helpful.


Me 45-BS,Him 47-ws,FWH had PA started end of 3/05 DDay 4/23/05 when I discovered emails NC as of 6/8/05,discovered the truth about the last major lies on 3/26/06
10/10 Dday new OW EA texts/phone calls

Posts: 138 | Registered: Feb 2007
manAscending
♂ Member
Member # 26919
Default  Posted: 5:16 PM, October 16th (Saturday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

@all_torn_up

For those who had multiple affairs when did you stop? When did you truly choose to change yourself and not behave that way again?
I had a series of five ONS, and stopped abruptly because I happened to be in church one day when the pastor gave a message about transparency with God and those you love. The next day I revealed everything. Sometimes I wonder about what my life would look like today if I had not been in church that particular morning.

Becoming a different man has been a multi-layered process, invovling educating myself about healthy relationships and boundaries, attending regular IC sessions, and reading SI to better understand how I hurt my BW and sympathise with her anguish.

The strongest desire to change myself came when, in counselling, I read the book Hold Me Tight. It gave me the picture of an ideal relationship, one (for me) that is characterised by two partners providing safety and security for each other. After I realised that my affairs were choices--devastatingly horrible choices--I understood that I could choose to chase after that which was good, right, and pure.

The change wasn't instantaneous. It's been over a year, and even now I am still receiving insights from my time in counselling. It also took a lot of heartache, part of which involved accepting that I was capable of hurting someone so painfully. I imagine that the details differ for waywards who move towards authentic remorse and change. This was just my journey.

How do you claim to love your bs and still have amother a?
I wrestled with this question for a long time, even thinking about it during my A. In my situation, I allowed my first ONS to happen when the OW offered sexual favours that my wife would not. I thought I'd be forever missing out if I were to decline. I rationalised that I could love my wife and accept sexual treats from others in the same way that I could love my wife and accept baked goods from others.

When I was cheating, I also rationalised that my love was like an inexhaustible gift that I could give to others, whomever I were to choose. I reasoned that to love someone was to value them, and that you could easily value more than one person at a time. I had somehow forced myself not to see the love between spouses as being unique or set apart. It still makes me taste bile knowing that there was a time when I thought this way.


Posts: 1648 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Ontario
Trying_To_Decide
♀ Member
Member # 29792
Default  Posted: 7:19 AM, October 17th (Sunday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

To WH's:

Why does he vacilate between, "I want our marriage to work," and, "I don't want to be married" so often? It's like we have a good day and he okay, then, something goes wrong adn he gets all serious and makes an, "I think we shouldn't be married anymore" statement.

Any thoughts?


Me, the BS:38 ...now 42
WH...STBX:39 ...now 43
3 kids, 13+ years

Posts: 526 | Registered: Oct 2010
Paper Roses
♀ Member
Member # 19336
Default  Posted: 11:21 PM, October 17th (Sunday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I think I know the answer to this question..if there is one. This happened a long time ago..but is haunting me again and my FWH has no idea why or how he could have said these things to me! He is deeply sorry and ashamed.

This happened within the first 6 months after the end of the affair. He was obviously deeply infatuated with the ow and feeling tremendous feelings of loss,.

In response to my questions, I do not remember the exact question, he referred to her as "desert" where as I was "meat and potatoes", then he went as far as to declare that she was a certain specific snack. The sanck he decided to compare her to just happened to be our "After sex" in bed snack!

Yes, we had a specific snack that one of us usually went to the kitchen for after sex, brought to the bed and ate together, it was this food combo that he said she was "like"!

Needless to say, we have not included this snack in our ritual since then. In fact his comparison devastated me and still has the power to cause me distress.

What would cause him to have ..said such a thing?

He seemed oblivious to the..connection..until my face went pasty white. It was, I suppose, what one would call a "Freudian slip", but in the cruelest way possible!

Other than the obvious answer, that he was in a "fog", does anyone have another answer as to why he would have said something so grossly inappropriate and cruel..?


Me-50-FBW-
He-45-FWh- sober 4 years

Self-deception- is literally a matter of deceiving oneself- and thus raises unique questions.
How can one deceive himself-unless he already knows-what it is that he is deceiving himself about?


Posts: 623 | Registered: Apr 2008 | From: Los Angeles
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 1:29 PM, October 18th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Trying_To_Decide:

Why does he vacilate between, "I want our marriage to work," and, "I don't want to be married" so often?

For the same reasons you might vacilate between wanting to invest the effort required to R or to just give up on your WS as damaged goods.

It may not be fair, but the fact is there is a boatload of work that a WS has to do in the R process and there is often very little positive reinforcement for that work. The talk track that went through my mind would be something like this:

"Hey, good job! You got through today without a trigger, making BW feel loved and wanted and making the right choices."

*Insert sarcastic tone here*

"Wow, that's great. So you did just what thousands of good spouses have done all along. You did what you're supposed to do. What do you want, a medal?"

Then along comes the screw up. And immediately, the thought is why should our BS keep us around? The "good stuff" is just what we should have done anyway. And the bad stuff digs a deeper hole.

This approach is one example of conflict avoidance. Instead of facing the hard work of acknowledging mistakes, your WS is trying to run away when they happen. This is something that exploring avoidance of conflict in IC can make a big difference on.


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 1:38 PM, October 18th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Paper Roses -

What would cause him to have ..said such a thing?

When trying to transition from foggy thinking to clear thinking, one of the things I tried to do was to find analogies that I could relate to. If I could find an analogy that made sense, then perhaps my actions would make sense as well.

Of course, there is no way to make sense out of an A. It was a senseless decision in the first place. But it's hard early on to admit that, because admitting that means admitting we are the same people capable of such harm.

The other thing that probably came into play is the transition from selfish thinking to selfless thinking. Remember in the A that your WS was not thinking about you or how his actions would hurt you at all. Even with the severity of D-Day, it's not like a switch flips and all of a sudden our BS is the only focus. It took me time (about 5 months in total) to fully leave behind my selfish thinking and think exclusively about how my words or actions would affect my BW.

For example, in the early days I had a fear about xMOW hating me because I had pulled the plug on the relationship. That fear, expressed openly, would clearly have hurt my BW deeply. Yet it was still where my focus was until I could pull my head out of my butt and see who mattered most in my life - my BW.


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
Trying_To_Decide
♀ Member
Member # 29792
Default  Posted: 4:24 PM, October 18th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Listeningclosely,

Thank you for your response! Yes, WH is huge at avoiding conflict. HUGE!


Me, the BS:38 ...now 42
WH...STBX:39 ...now 43
3 kids, 13+ years

Posts: 526 | Registered: Oct 2010
Paper Roses
♀ Member
Member # 19336
Default  Posted: 4:41 PM, October 18th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Listening,
This is sort of becoming less painful in a way as it beomes more fascinating in it's pecularity.

I guess I understand that he was not thinking about how his actions could hurt me at all...although I still do not know how that could possibly be true..I have been told over and over that it IS true so it must be.

I guess I could see how an analogy about desert and dinner might have made sense to him...again it is quite a reach and very insulting to boot! One might wonder if he ever expected to get laid again? By me,I mean, of course.
I suppose another reason might have been that he wanted to pour poison on our sex life? An odd and self-destructive thing to do but many of the things he did were self destructive? He did succeed in wreaking havoc on our sex life for many, many months, afterwards, through that and other statements and behaviors. I suspect though that his feelings for his lover outweighed any concern he had regarding our relationship anyway, as that was his priority.

I also suspect that he simply could not stop talking about how delicious and delectable and delightful she was..even to me...he was just so smitten. That may have been a reason as well. I think he was just so enamored that consequences be damned! It took closer to a year for him to get her out of his system but I do not think I halped the process much as I was encouraging him to return to her.

My question though, now, as we are a long time into R is if he intended it to cause me pain? It sounds as if you think if was not intentionally meant to cause me pain ..that I was simply collateral damage and pretty insignificant to him at the time. I think I agree, I was not much more than a blip on the radar at the time.

Thanks for listening and responding..Listening...My best to you and yours.


Me-50-FBW-
He-45-FWh- sober 4 years

Self-deception- is literally a matter of deceiving oneself- and thus raises unique questions.
How can one deceive himself-unless he already knows-what it is that he is deceiving himself about?


Posts: 623 | Registered: Apr 2008 | From: Los Angeles
comatose
♂ Member
Member # 29798
Default  Posted: 8:39 AM, October 19th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

hello,
sorry I started this question in WS forum and got moderated, found this one here, so i'll repost.

and sorry if it has been asked, it is way to long to go through all the previous pages (epecially at work)...

Hello,
I am a former WS, now a BH (same woman..)

Now, I'm dying to R with my wife but of course she is reticent, and because she fell for the OM.
SHe can be very crude and mean about all of it, including telling me at times that he was perfect with her, knew all the right things to say, do, sex etc etc..

Of course I take a HUGE hit on my self esteem, and well I'm trying to rebuild it a bit, for my R and of course for my future in general.

Now, my question here is simple what did the OM do to make you go head over heals for him? like, details, what did he say, what gestures did he have.?

I'm going batshit crazy with this because I consider myself a loving person now that I've changed, and of course it seems I never measure up to the SOB.

thank you


I then got this answer from meetoomeetoo

BH here.

I hope this is okay.

You have to do the same things any other BH should do.

-180
-Tell OM's spouse
-contact an attorney
-insist on no contact
etc.

There is NO WAY you can compete with OM. He is a fantasy, while you are reality. The best cure for her fantasy fog is a good splash of reality. That's why telling OM spouse if he has one is so important. OM tend to be cowards. When faced with the reality of losing what they have with their wives the relationships with WW go south like a duck in winter.

Another reason the 180 works is that when you seem to be moving on, you are giving less to the WW. She will try to get it from OM and him usually being there only for sex can't deliver. Remember, it's a fantasy and now HE can't live up to it either. Also, why would he go through the trouble? There are always greener pastures out there. He will probably dump your wife...fast.

You did fuck up...no doubt. But that is no excuse for her to behave that way. She may think it is, but it's not.

I hope this helps.


to which I answered:


thanks for your reply meetoomeetoo,
but it's not as clear cut as you set it.
Her A ended about year and a half ago (it seems to check out), at least the phisical part since we moved ot another country.
Also, I had only found some proof of it, and then out of the blue one day she confessed to all..
So you see its quite different, the confession or my BIG dday, was a year ago almost, and she has been "trying" since.. but its not true, she seems to hate me sometimes..
so my question is not only about my R or how to take care of me etc..
OM has no BW unfortunately, All I want to know basically, is how to make someone feel that special... so that in the future I can make someone feel as special and good as he made my WW feel. be it for me to implement in my current M, or in a future relationship if we do split... I guess I want to know what he did to be so much better than me.
WW won't answer this other than he just was, andhe just knew exactly what and how to say , he was the perfect match.. etc i know there is some lies in there, but still i'd like to know what the hell I do wrong that she felt so much better with him than with me

your input please , both WS and BS may answer here...


ME:ONS w/ex 10/2000,3y on/off PA but no sex A w/ a much younger(UA) girl.Epiphany->became a good guy
BW/WW(her):LTAsexual with coworker 14 y older
An affair turn minds into prisons and a whole life to one continuous panicked breath(kbird)

Posts: 414 | Registered: Oct 2010
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 9:40 AM, October 19th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Comatose -

I'm sorry you're facing these challenges.

As a side note, the guidelines on this thread are that BS's not answer questions by "proxy" for their WS.

what did the OM do to make you go head over heals for him? like, details, what did he say, what gestures did he have.?

The first thing you have to realize is that this is not so much about what someone does as what the other person needs. It's not a one size fits all thing here. You can't build a manual on "how to make someone flip head over heels for you".

For example, in my case I had a very low opinion of myself. xMOW fed that gap by giving me positive affirmation - complimenting me on anything from appearance to accomplishments. So by her doing things that attacked something that I was lacking inside, I fell for her.

it seems I never measure up

In my case, there would have been no way for my BW to measure up to the fantasy I had created surrounding xMOW. My BW had all the elements of reality to deal with - kids, bills, work, family, etc. And she had to deal with the "real me" warts and all. So there were going to be times when I would do things that would tick her off and she would respond. xMOW didn't have to deal with that.

So for a short time, can you focus on just positive stuff and have an intense relationship? Sure, but it's not sustainable. Eventually over time, you'll do something that makes the other person upset or disappointed in you. It's at that point that the fantasy starts to break down.

I guess I want to know what he did to be so much better than me
.

It wasn't what he did. It was what he didn't do. He didn't give her negative feedback. He didn't complain that she forgot something at the store or spent money that wasn't there. He didn't go for days without telling her how great she looked, how beautiful her eyes are or how wonderful she was.

If you want a series of short term relationships with no real depth, then you can do what OM did. You can go from woman to woman, showering them with only compliments and then if it gets too intense and negative feelings surface turn tail and run. But don't think for a minute that someone can spend a lifetime with anyone and every day be this way over the top perfect partner. That's not reality.

[This message edited by Listeningclosely at 9:41 AM, October 19th (Tuesday)]


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
comatose
♂ Member
Member # 29798
Default  Posted: 10:02 AM, October 19th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

But don't think for a minute that someone can spend a lifetime with anyone and every day be this way over the top perfect partner. That's not reality.

that is what I thought, but seems to be false with my WW... she says its not like that..
I guess deep down I want to know how to make my WW fall in love with me like she did OM...


ME:ONS w/ex 10/2000,3y on/off PA but no sex A w/ a much younger(UA) girl.Epiphany->became a good guy
BW/WW(her):LTAsexual with coworker 14 y older
An affair turn minds into prisons and a whole life to one continuous panicked breath(kbird)

Posts: 414 | Registered: Oct 2010
lavenderteapot
♀ Member
Member # 21991
Default  Posted: 11:11 AM, October 19th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Question for the FWH's:

I just don't understand how my fwh could be with fow and then come home to me. I've asked him how he could hold her hand and say romantic or sexual things to her etc. and then come home to me and act (mostly) normal and his answer is that he just didn't think about me when he was with her. He pushed me out of his mind because being with her was just something that he wanted and he was being selfish.

I understand the words, but I just can't comprehend being able to do that. How can he claim to have loved me the whole time when he was purposely pushing me and his conscience away just because he felt like it? I've asked him about the good times we had (and I feel like there were many) during the 9 months of his emotional/lightly physical affair - was he just faking happiness? Was he just faking sexual attraction to me every time we had sex? How could we have good times and then him still go back and engage in his relationship with her the next day? He says that for the most part when he was with her he didn't think about me and when he was with me he didn't think about her (which I say is false because he often texted her when he was with me, I just didn't know it at the time. So he was thinking of her when he was with me).

Can anyone better explain how he was able to compartmentalize like that? How is it possible to love me, but want to be with her? It makes no sense.

He says that he felt like we were fighting all the time and he didn't know what to do about it anymore and she made him feel good. How does finding another woman improve things? If he felt so defeated in our marriage, why not tell me and work on it? Or why not leave? He says he still loved me and wanted to be married to me, he just didn't know how to make things better. This explanation makes me so angry still when I think about it. He now recognizes how selfish that thinking was, but sometimes I'm just angry that he ever thought/felt that way and left me in the dark about it.

For what it's worth, R is going really well for us and we're two years out from DDay, but I still struggle with these explanations. I just don't understand and fwh says he can't think of any other way to explain it.


Me - 31
WH - 29
Married 9 years, together for 15
3 beautiful children
D-Day #1: 5/7/08
D-Day #2: 9/19/08
D-Day #3: 7/23/10 (Nothing new happened, but finally got the full truth)

Posts: 131 | Registered: Dec 2008
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 11:21 AM, October 19th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Comatose -

she says its not like that

So what does she say it IS like?

I want to know how to make my WW fall in love with me like she did OM

We can't make anyone fall in love with us. And the reality is we each are deserving of having someone love us for who we are.

If you try to make this about changing things to make her love you, you are sacrificing who you truly are for someone who doesn't deserve you in the first place. It has to be about your WW valuing and loving you for who you are every day.


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 11:39 AM, October 19th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

lavenderteapot -

Can anyone better explain how he was able to compartmentalize like that? How is it possible to love me, but want to be with her?

I'm not sure, because if you're looking for a rational explanation you won't get one. None of this makes sense in the end.

What I can tell you is that in my case, xMOW was filling a gap within me (basically validating the good in me that I didn't see myself) in the same way a drug gives a high that offsets the low an addict might be feeling.

An addict knows their addiction can result in loss of family, job and even life. But they keep going back because the hole within them screams at them to be filled by the drug of choice. It felt very much the same way for me.

Your WH sounds a lot like I was. I had a low opinion of myself, so when my BW got critical of me I internalized it and got even lower. xMOW complimented me and I got the offsetting boost I needed because I had no sense of how to have any confidence in myself.

Added to that was the fact I feared conflict of any kind. So I didn't tell my BW when I was unhappy, because I didn't want to end up in a conflict with her. That's why the outward appearance may look fine, but inside the WS may be hurting.


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
HUFI-PUFI
♂ Member
Member # 25460
Default  Posted: 10:44 AM, October 29th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

lavenderteapot - Can anyone better explain how he was able to compartmentalize like that? How is it possible to love me, but want to be with her?

I think that we use the word compartmentalization here to talk about a thought process that is very complex. It involves consciously or subconsciously suppressing or "compartmentalizing" or "sectioning off" upsetting thoughts and emotions in order to justify engaging in certain (sometimes questionable) behaviours.

The process of consciousness and thinking is a very complex process; as anyone involved in AI (artificial intelligence) will be able to tell you. If you really want to get an idea of how complex the process of human thought is, read some of the article at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artificial_intelligence#Deduction.2C_reasoning.2C_problem_solving.

Research in how the mind works is highly technical and specialized, deeply divided into subfields. Any discussion on how the mind thinks has to include reasoning, knowledge, planning, learning, communication, perception and emotions. If you also take a read at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophy_of_mind, you can see that the brightest minds in the world are still in great conflict as to how the mind really works!

If the experts donít really have a clue, then it takes no stretch of the imagination to appreciate the reply ďI donít knowĒ when itís sometimes given in respect to the affair. LOL

Unknown Poster - The mind of a WS is a very sordid, confused place during the preamble, main body, and post mortem of an A. Don't give us too much credit for rational thought.

Anyhow, with regard to compartmentalization, I read an article in which Kaj Sotala argues that we commonly discuss compartmentalization as if it were an active process, something you do. But he suspects compartmentalization might actually be the natural state of thought processing for most people and other more open architecture processes are those that we have to learn as people.

The need to separate or compartmentalize our thoughts comes from the inherent conflicts in life. I think that we desire a black and white view of the world and are conflicted with the reality that it seems to be shades of gray. Keeping things sweet and simple can be achieved by the process of compartmentalization. If we find the proposed connection implausible or undesirable or uncomfortable, then building up a separate set of rules (a box) for each issue is the safe approach.

Itís interesting to note that in the book: 'The Brain That Changes Itself' by Norman Doidge, he discusís the issue of neuroplasticity and the ability of the human brain to change as a result of one's experience. This change is not just physical but also refers to the process of neuron firing that creates the thought process.

The simple truth is that there are times when all of us feel compelled to compartmentalize or store away our emotions in order to carry out difficult tasks. Compartmentalization can be a very deliberate act or more commonly, a very sub-conscious process used in conjunction with other coping processes.

For instance, you may have a longstanding fear of public speaking, but you may also have a job that sometimes requires you to give speeches. In order to carry out that particular part of your job, you have probably discovered a variety of ways to temporarily store away your fears and anxieties when you are called upon to speak in public.

But, as with most coping mechanisms, it is when people start to rely too heavily on "emotional compartmentalization" that it can become a problem in their lives and in their relationships with their loved ones.

Men appear to be better at compartmentalization than do women but itís not gender specific. Itís a coping mechanism that IMHO becomes used more and more as the stress levels in life increases. The inherent issue of ďwrongnessĒ in having an affair forces this self-defence mechanism into high gear. How could you cheat and then go home o your wife if you werenít a master of this process. And as stated, this is mostly a sub-conscious process.

Iím not a technical expert and I canít explain where I got my ability to compartmentalize but after a lot of self-examination, I can now see very clearly that I had this ability to separate my acts and my thoughts ever since I was a child. Hell, in fact, I used to pride myself on my ability to separate my emotions and my actions as I thought that it was a mature way of dealing with lifeís conflicts.

Separating and compartmentalizing the existence of two women in our lives is something that we simply had to do in order to maintain some form of self-integrity within our lives. We knew that it was wrong but there we were, indulging in the affair. How do you deal with the conflict that it creates inside? Well, the simple answer is that you let the sub-conscious mind do its thing. Block out the one while with the other. Donít dwell and donít think and for God sake ignore it as best as you can because as ignoring it makes it go away. Of course, we know in one part of us that it doesnít and thatís why it creates stress but in another sense, being able to ignore the conflict means that we continue to think (and hope) that the problem doesn't exist... Men in particular, because of the hardwired and societal teachings on how to cope with feelings means that we minimize whatever it is we do feelĖ-especially when it comes to anger, sadness, fear, and shame. Itís not that these feelings donít occur. They are there for every guy, even if it is difficult for us to identify in the moment or to face up to their existence.

How did he your husband come home to her after wards and say to you that he loved you? Well, I am guessing that he did it the same way that I did. Without even being aware of it half of the time and for those few times when I could feel or see the disconnect between words and deed, my mind ran away from dwelling on this because it could see that the consequences of doing so were not emotionally desirable. Perhaps, at the end, the wisdom of another SI poster is the last word on the subject.

Listeningclosely - I'm not sure, because if you're looking for a rational explanation you won't get one. None of this makes sense in the end.

HUFI

[This message edited by HUFI-PUFI at 10:45 AM, October 29th (Friday)]


Donít listen to your head, itís easily confused. Donít listen to your heart, its fickle. Listen to your soul, God doesn't steer you wrong.

Posts: 3218 | Registered: Sep 2009 | From: Azilda, Northern Ontario
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Default  Posted: 1:22 PM, October 29th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

ListeningClosly:

My BH says this was not at all the case for him. He had a EA for 3 months and he says that the fog lifted the very moment of the PA.
There was no withdraw, nothing. He at that time felt trapped, woke up and didn't know what to do. I found the evidence a few days later.

In the early phase, what you're seeing is not unexpected. The brain still thinks there was a real relationship there, and grieves the loss of the relationship the same way you would if it were an authentic relationship. Your WS may show signs of missing the OP, and will trigger on things that remind him of the OW the same way you might trigger about things that remind you of the A.


Faithful Wife ME 52
FWH 47
DDAY #1 1/11/09 EA Online ONLY (NC)
DDAY #2 6/2010 Admitted PA with the same PIG(12/08)
"Anything may be betrayed, anyone may be forgiven, but not those who lack the courage of their own greatness"

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