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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: BS Questions for WS's IV
Blindbat
♀ Member
Member # 29495
Default  Posted: 7:58 AM, November 1st (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

OK, so yesterday, in light of the fact that WH rang OW on our return from time away together instead of the MC he promised to ring, and the fact he's ramping up the relationship with her, son sending him an FB request etc., I told him I can't live like this any more and we need to separate; that this is not what I ever wanted, that it was the result of his choices because it's clear the focus of his life is now on her and he is clearly beginning to build a life with her. To which he said "I might not be" (so he's stringing her along too?!)

Later in the evening in our musings I told him I still don't understand why he wanted to blow my world apart and what is so very good about the OW that it's worth throwing away 15 years of marriage for, without even making the slightest effort to save the M. I was told I was "missing the point". Please, can anyone tell me just what is the point that I'm missing?

[This message edited by Blindbat at 8:02 AM, November 1st (Monday)]


Noli illegitimi carborundum
Not yet as divorced as I'd like to be :-(

Posts: 713 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: The Land of Chocolate
trusted2much
♀ New Member
Member # 29092
Question  Posted: 10:51 AM, November 1st (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

We are 14 months out from D-day of my h EA with the neighbor. He was obsessed and "in love". We are trying to reconcile. I have read many times here on SI that the goal is indifference to the OW. He says he really doesn't think about her anymore. I thought indifference, good. But then he will say that she didn't do anything wrong and it was all his fault. She deserves no blame. He pursued her and so on. Although, he admits she flirted with him, told him her problems in her marriage, talked about her views/likes on sex, etc. I have also read recently on another post that this sounds like he is still protecting her and romanticizing her. I then, in my crazy mind, thought he probably put her in the little box in his head, just the way she was the day after d-day. Still innocent and perfect, never really seeing her true colors. In the meantime, I noticed he has a very hard time recalling anything good I have done over the past 28 years. Even things I did last week. He just says he doesn't remember me showing any affection last week. I know I did, because he questioned what I was doing and looked at me like I had three heads. So my question is: Is it possible to reconcile if he still has the "romanticized" version of the OW in his head and I feel he is still demonizing me? Sorry if this doesn't make much sense, didn't sleep much last night and pretty close to thinking I'm th nutjob. Thanks in advance to all the WS who take the time to help.


Me: BS
Him: WS
Together: 29 Yrs.
Married: 25 Yrs (23 at time of EA)

Posts: 17 | Registered: Jul 2010
RKT429SS
♂ Member
Member # 28883
Default  Posted: 2:15 PM, November 1st (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

[This message edited by RKT429SS at 6:42 AM, November 2nd (Tuesday)]


Me - BS 38
Her - WS 37
MOM - coworker,with 2 kids, EA&PA approx. 6 mo
Us Married 10 yrs (together 15 yrs)
1 girl, 1 boy
DDay 3.15.2010
Working on R

Posts: 216 | Registered: Jun 2010
will_I_make_it
♀ Member
Member # 28648
Default  Posted: 5:42 PM, November 1st (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hello all WS. Can you please help me understand: why would my husband adopt my kids knowing he hasn't been committing to us as a family? I guess I'm wondering why would someone bring on the extra responsibility with all of the infidelity they have going on. If we don't make it, that is more children to add to a child support order. And these are young kids, under 7 years of age. I just don't get it. I'd like to mention that adopting them was his idea from long ago and knowing he was in an affair, he still signed off on the paperwork which has been approved by the judge.


Married 6/2007
Me = BS/28
Him = WH/39
DD 2/10/10
DD#2 4/24/2010 (same affair)

Posts: 105 | Registered: May 2010
manAscending
♂ Member
Member # 26919
Default  Posted: 12:11 PM, November 2nd (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

@Blindbat

I was told I was "missing the point". Please, can anyone tell me just what is the point that I'm missing?
To me, it sounds like his point is that you can't know for sure what his intentions truly are. Which is a load of bovine stercus, if you ask me. He's not seeing the weight of his actions and how they betray his priorities. He thinks he's holding his cards close to his chest, but they're on the table in plain view.

His comment is a subtle attempt to have you second-guess yourself, but you're doing all of the right things, Blindbat. Don't waver now.


Posts: 1648 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Ontario
Blindbat
♀ Member
Member # 29495
Default  Posted: 1:33 PM, November 2nd (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks for the insight and vote of confidence, MA. IOW he doesn't know what or which of us he really wants, isn't prepared to commit to either of us or give up either of us as a result and thinks it's his decision? He did choose the moment I told him I wanted to S to tell me he still loves me Well tough. His indecision, lies and cowardice have taken the decision out of his hands. I'm just so tired and fed up with being the one to take the bull by the horns - I'm just all out of courage right now

[This message edited by Blindbat at 1:35 PM, November 2nd (Tuesday)]


Noli illegitimi carborundum
Not yet as divorced as I'd like to be :-(

Posts: 713 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: The Land of Chocolate
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 2:00 PM, November 2nd (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

trusted2much -

Is it possible to reconcile if he still has the "romanticized" version of the OW in his head and I feel he is still demonizing me?

It does seem at 14 months after D-Day that things would have sorted out by now. It sounds like he still hasn't forced himself to face all the truths he ignored during the A.

In the case of not making the OW a bad person, it's usually a matter of self protection for a WS. If we admit that the OP was someone bad, then we have to admit to ourselves that we let ourselves fall for someone that "low" in the first place. So in our twisted state, we try to justify our actions in our own mind by convincing ourselves that "anyone could have fallen for such a great person".

As for not acknowledging your good points, that's likely a matter of how he conditioned himself. Again, if our BS is great it makes our actions that much worse. But if our BS neglects us, well then who wouldn't agree that there was a valid reason for us to cheat?

There may be something I'm missing here. But it really sounds like your WS is afraid to face the real facts of just how low the choices were that were made.


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
trusted2much
♀ New Member
Member # 29092
Default  Posted: 2:41 PM, November 2nd (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thank you so much LC for your response. I do understand that I may be asking two different questions. I don't think you missed anything, at least not about this question. Of course, there is much more to the whole story, but.... I guess I am also wondering how long does it take to see the true colors of the affair, OP, etc. and start seeing that maybe there was/is something good in the M? Sorry to ask another question!!


Me: BS
Him: WS
Together: 29 Yrs.
Married: 25 Yrs (23 at time of EA)

Posts: 17 | Registered: Jul 2010
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 8:51 PM, November 2nd (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

trusted2much -

how long does it take to see the true colors of the affair, OP, etc. and start seeing that maybe there was/is something good in the M?

I wish I could give you a definitive answer, but it's different for each WS. I will say that for me, the switch from fantasy to reality was quick. It was the time leading up to that switch - about 5 months of post D-Day fog - that was way too long. It took a trigger that caused me to see my BW's pain in a very intense way to cause that switch to go off in my brain.


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 6:10 AM, November 3rd (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

will_i_make_it -

why would my husband adopt my kids knowing he hasn't been committing to us as a family?

while in the fog of an A, reality becomes very distorted. It is quite possible in his own mind that he has the "perfect" life - a stable home, wonderful kids and a woman who validates what a great guy he is (the OW).

It can also feed into the validation he gets from the OW as well, as he tells her about your kids and portrays what a "great Dad" he is. Telling her he voluntarily took on kids that were not his makes him look better in her eyes.

One other possibility is if he has Knight in Shining Armor (KISA) tendencies. The act of being there for your kids would be a validation for him of how he helps others, and would be kept separate in his mind from the act of "rescuing OW" by placing her on a pedestal.


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
getting real
♀ Member
Member # 28912
Default  Posted: 8:52 AM, November 3rd (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

trusted2much said:
I guess I am also wondering how long does it take to see the true colors of the affair, OP, etc. and start seeing that maybe there was/is something good in the M?

The "fog" cleared gradually for me over several weeks, immediately following D-Day and NC. 14 months out seems like a long time to me. Is he doing IC? MC? Any other work or introspection on himself?

On a more pessimistic note, is he maintaining NC, and has he really come clean about the particulars of the A? If he is still keeping secrets, then he is basically still involved in the A inside his own head.


Me: WW, 34 Him: BH, 34 -- StillGoing
2 kids, ages 9 and 5
1.5 year EA/PA
D-day 5/01/10

Ain't it funny how we pretend we're still a child
Softly stolen under our blanket skies
And rescue me from me and all that I believe


Posts: 184 | Registered: Jun 2010
getting real
♀ Member
Member # 28912
Default  Posted: 9:05 AM, November 3rd (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

will_I_make_it said:
Can you please help me understand: why would my husband adopt my kids knowing he hasn't been committing to us as a family?

Being in an A can lead to a lot of doublethink. He might have been trying to maintain his image of himself as a "good person" even while he was doing things that were incompatible with that. He might have used it for "bargaining" in his own head: on the one hand, he was cheating, but on the other hand, he adopted the kids. I think some people compartmentalize so well that they don't even really see the discrepancy.

Obviously it isn't rational or logical, but umm... I think part of what is so hard for many BS's to accept is that A behavior rarely makes sense.


Me: WW, 34 Him: BH, 34 -- StillGoing
2 kids, ages 9 and 5
1.5 year EA/PA
D-day 5/01/10

Ain't it funny how we pretend we're still a child
Softly stolen under our blanket skies
And rescue me from me and all that I believe


Posts: 184 | Registered: Jun 2010
trusted2much
♀ New Member
Member # 29092
Default  Posted: 1:35 PM, November 3rd (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Again, many thanks LC and getting real. Wow, the "fog". I thought he was out of that since his attitude toward me has improved since d-day, but I have this nagging feeling that he hasn't gone through the process of removing her from his head. He went from obsession to I don't think about her. I guess I just need to hear that he at least recognizes that she is/was not the good/nice person he thought. At the very least, knew he was married or accepted help from me while carrying on like this. Anything! He has always been very honest and has told me about other women flirting with him, but not about her. She has flirted several times over the years and he never mentioned it. I feel like he always had something for her. Is there anything I can do to help him get the rest of the way out of the "fog"? Can I do anything to help him to face the real facts?
getting real-no, no counseling. He has called for a referral, but no appointment yet. Introspection-IDK-no idea of "why" except for he didn't think I loved him, didn't feel love, more like business partners. I do believe he has maintained NC, but details-really tough. I got a timeline 9 months after d-day. Before that, I asked questions, but he was kinda angry and defensive or he needed to think about it or even some lies. Now I write the questions and he then writes the answers, but it takes a while for him to get back to me. Some things he says he doen't remember. I think there are still secrets, but he says no. At abare minimum, I still have unanswered questions. Although he says he will get back to me sooner this time w/answers. Any suggestions you can offer? I really don't know what to do. Some days I see remorse, I think, but then these nagging issues come up and I think in order to get through this I will have to sweep it under the rug.
Just to let you know, the BS here, I am sure, appreciate your efforts to help us more than you know. Also, am I asking too many questions? Is there a limit in the forum to how many a BS can ask?


Me: BS
Him: WS
Together: 29 Yrs.
Married: 25 Yrs (23 at time of EA)

Posts: 17 | Registered: Jul 2010
will_I_make_it
♀ Member
Member # 28648
Default  Posted: 6:45 PM, November 3rd (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks getting real and Listeningclosely


Married 6/2007
Me = BS/28
Him = WH/39
DD 2/10/10
DD#2 4/24/2010 (same affair)

Posts: 105 | Registered: May 2010
HUFI-PUFI
♂ Member
Member # 25460
Default  Posted: 7:39 PM, November 3rd (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

trusted2much - Also, am I asking too many questions? Is there a limit in the forum to how many a BS can ask?

There are no limits to how many questions that you can ask. We understand that sometimes the need to understand how and why quite often conflicts with the rate the knowledge comes. LOL

Unfortunately the limitation here is the speed of the answers as it all depends on the goodwill of the WS community to answer the questions as time and energy permit. The good news is that while there are some great members (manAscending, Listeningclosely, Fallen and BaxtersBFF to name but a few) who try their best to give replies with due haste, the bad news is that it remains a rather ad hoc situation.

For those that had posted and never got a reply, please don't ever think that we misplaced you by intent but accept our apologies and please submit that question again!

HUFI


Don’t listen to your head, it’s easily confused. Don’t listen to your heart, its fickle. Listen to your soul, God doesn't steer you wrong.

Posts: 3218 | Registered: Sep 2009 | From: Azilda, Northern Ontario
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 10:23 AM, November 4th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

trusted2much -

Ditto HUFI. Ask as many questions as you like. That's why we have this thread.

Is there anything I can do to help him get the rest of the way out of the "fog"? Can I do anything to help him to face the real facts?

First and foremost, consistency and consequences. If your WS is doing something counter to what you have told him you need to heal, he needs to hear about it every time from you. And if there are consequences for his actions, hold him to them.

For example, I would say IC is mandatory for any WS to get through both the "why did they do it" and the ability to see reality. As long as your WS is taking the steps needed to go through IC, fine. But if he refuses to go, or says he's giving up on the therapist because it's useless, that could be a dealbreaker.

Bottom line is how he reacts to seeing your pain. If his response is compassion, empathy and ownership of his causing that pain, there's hope. If not, then remorse is far less likely and so is his ability to see the truth.


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
RKT429SS
♂ Member
Member # 28883
Default  Posted: 2:40 PM, November 4th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Help needed from WS's. If you still worked with your AP, would that be detrimental to R with your BS? When I say ‘work’ with let me describe my/our situation.

The a$$hole works in a different building, department. Within walking distance. They could chat via IM, email, phone call. She has professed none of that easy contact and I believe her. They physically may cross paths in a hallway, campus wide meeting on average once every two months. Could possibly see each other out too lunch by shear randomness.

Now this being said….Should I demand total NC? This has been eating at me for months and an arguing point between her and I. She really likes her job (even before him), we need the money (she makes the same as I do), I’m happy for her being there other than him. Please help. It angers the hell out of me that I am essentially ‘allowing’ her to work there.

[This message edited by RKT429SS at 2:41 PM, November 4th (Thursday)]


Me - BS 38
Her - WS 37
MOM - coworker,with 2 kids, EA&PA approx. 6 mo
Us Married 10 yrs (together 15 yrs)
1 girl, 1 boy
DDay 3.15.2010
Working on R

Posts: 216 | Registered: Jun 2010
mumma
♀ Member
Member # 29657
Default  Posted: 2:53 PM, November 4th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

RKT--I don't think it has to be detrimental to R, but if is detrimental to her or to you, than it isdetrimental.

I work with OP also. During the A, he worked right across the hall from me. After DDay, I moved my office much further away and off his beaten path to get away from him. It was detrimental to me to be around him. Made me sick with shame. Now, I see him in staff meetings and in the hallway. Still makes me sick. So, I just took a job in another division, on a lower floor. Hopefully, that will be better. If not, I'll leave completely. If BH had asked me to leave completely, i would have. BH is glad I have made these changes. He doesn't worry about me breaking NC, i don't think, but he just doesn't want me around the guy, or the group of friends that were part of this. I totally understand and agree.

But here is the thing--if she wants to email, text, im him, she can do that no matter where she moves. So, I think the important thing is for the two of you to agree on what level of distance is comfortable for both of you--and if that means she leaves her job, I believe you have the standing to ask her to do that.

But at some point, you will still have to learn to trust that she doesn't want any other method of contact with him and that she is maintaining NC (of course she has to give you reason to do that). That is to say, the distance will help, but will not be a cure-all. But you already know that, I am sure.


Me: FWW (37)
BH: 37
2 little boys (4 & 6)
Married 11 years
6-wk. A over text & IM with two physical encounters (kissing) in last 3 wks.
I have caused unimaginable pain. I will work everyday to repair it.

Posts: 110 | Registered: Sep 2010
trusted2much
♀ New Member
Member # 29092
Default  Posted: 3:10 PM, November 4th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks, LC & Hufi. Didn't want any of you to think I am:
A: Drilling you
B: A PITA
c: Monopolizing the thread
BTW, I am very patient and I understand that you can't jump on every question. I am willing to wait for the voices of experience!


Me: BS
Him: WS
Together: 29 Yrs.
Married: 25 Yrs (23 at time of EA)

Posts: 17 | Registered: Jul 2010
tsol25
♀ Member
Member # 29461
Default  Posted: 12:43 AM, November 5th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

So I'm not ready to tell my wbf about this site because I've been using almost like a diary.

I was wondering if there has been any articles that have especially helped any WS. I found "Things that every WS needs to know" which I'm going to email him a copy of and I've sifted through the healing library but find that a lot of the articles aren't as related to a ONS. If anyone has any advice that would be very helpful, I know he feels kind of lost and alone and I hope to send him a link to the site one day because it's been invaluable to me.


me - tsol, that's all for now

Posts: 1208 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: Canada
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