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User Topic: Long Term Affair X V I I
forgivenotforget
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Member # 11053
Default  Posted: 8:21 AM, March 29th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

so fnf what kind of walls have you built?

Miracle, the answer is in my username. I will not allow myself to forget. I don't mean this in an obsessive way but again, in a self-protective way. My H engaged in a double life for a minimum of 8 years (or 8 fucking years as our MC referred to them ).
To me, the idea that my H lied, cheated, deceived and betrayed for many, many years speaks so loudly of a character flaw that I think I would be foolish to minimize or allow myself to put my faith back into my M too soon. Believe me, I do hope that over time I will come to have faith in my H and have seen great progress in this area but as you'll see it said many times on SI, the number of years of healing = the number of years betrayed (or something like that ).
There are other aspects too that haven't happened (at least in my opinion) that would help me, and the primary one would be to have my H really work in IC'ing to see how he was capable of so many years of betrayal. He has gone to C'ing occasionally but mostly we have done MC'ing and he is very quick to just write off his history as his parents fault. "They taught me to lie, they told me to do whatever I needed to in order to get ahead." Don't get me wrong, I'm sure there is a great deal of truth to this but at some point WE must accept responsibility for OUR choices. We can no longer blame it on mommy and daddy. WTF??? How old is he anyway???
Maybe it is that simple or maybe he was just being a selfish, self-centered prick (sorry I usually hate this word ). But because he hasn't done what others like hurtshirley's H's have done to get answers, it leaves me cautious about the future.
On a positive note, he has come a long way. He is completely transparent in many areas. I have complete access to his phone, his emails, and any correspondence that he receives. If he does go out, (which is very rare - his choice not mine), he calls and immediately answers my calls if I phone him. If I ask him not to go somewhere because I am uncomfortable, he doesn't go and doesn't sulk about not going. He is willing to do whatever I need in order to feel "safe." Over time, I have become so much more comfortable and I do feel safe for the most part. It is very rare that I am suspicious of his behavior. That's how transparent he is willing to be. BIG, big step.
Recently we received an invitation to a wedding where the OW would definitely be present. I immediately told him that I didn't want to go. He agreed and I put the invitation in the trash. No fits, no sulking, no negative reaction from him. Another biggie!!!! These people all knew what was going on and never sent me an anonymous note, a warning of any kind. I feel no obligation to any of them. Fuck 'em! If he stomped around and made me feel like I was being unreasonable, I would have been furious and it would have set us back big time. We'll send a gift but to be in the same room as the OW for an entire night would send me into a downward spiral that my H I'm sure wants to avoid at all costs.
So, sorry for the ramblin' but I just wanted to answer your question and to explain that although I really try to focus on "the now" and my H's positive changes there is still that protective wall that for the time being remains securely in place.


D-day - 12/23/05 LTA - 8 years.
"Love's a matter of trust and I just want to believe in us." M McBride

Posts: 1901 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: A tunnel where I'm beginning to see the light
trynhard
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Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 8:47 AM, March 29th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

allgood..
I've been meaning to ask you if your W is on SI or if she ever read any of your posts here?

No. She knows I come for help with my healing at some online help site... SI allows my hippocampus and my cortex to organize the trauma, integrate it, and inform the amygdale which is then able to calm down. All of you here are helping me process this. I don't want my W reading my private post to you... you give me valuable advice, valuable insight.. I can come here to vent and I don't want my W to hear some of the ugly things I say about her today.. I can share them with you... without fear of hurting her. I don't want to hurt her but for some reason I need to "spill them"... I don't think it is a good idea to give him this site. I don't recommend it.

Since you are afraid to seek outside help from what I know saved my own marriage... I do think it is possible to heal yourself... It is ok for you to be the one to start the heavy lifting! Have you ever watched the Movie Fireproof… take a chance and watch it with him…anyway… 1) Stay on SI for awhile.. your H may not like it... He will think it is causing damage. I told my wife all positive things about this site….that I can relate to others that have been through adultery, how they handled it, people that now have better marriages today, people that have healed and can help my mind handle what she has done to me. 2) I had a very close friend to lean on... GET ONE... We'd go out and have a drink about once a week after work to talk... You want to hear something funny? Can you picture two grow men in suits crying in a bar corner? My friend could relate for both being a cheater and being cheated on... he left his family for his AP... Married his AP.. then his AP wife cheated on him... His AP wife is unhealthy... she is stuck in lust...

3) Seek professional IC and visit at least every couple weeks if you can...
4) Read many books on relationships and infidelity... educate yourself on different relationships... why people do what they do.. it will help you understand.. You will find answers to questions you H cannot even answer.
5) Learn how to forgive... this is very hard.
6) Make a decision to love you H.
7) Make boundaries for your own happiness.. (I will share mine if you want to see them) This is huge imo…

You can write you H many letters verses having him come here. Writing letter to him can help you reconnect… They help!

Rules...
1) Only share your own feelings...focus on only feelings. look online for "feeling words.". ONLY your FEELINGS! Describe your feeling in different ways, ways he can relate to.. (I will share an example of what I gave my wife at the end)
2) Try and guide him on things you learn about healthy relationships in a loving way.
3) Always start it with something you appreciate about him, something positive, something nice…
4) Always close with an I love you.

Once you write, look to see if you replace the word "feel" with "think you"... if that is the case.. then scratch that... it may be an attack... Believe me, you H will feel attacked with your feelings...

I wrote my wife once that I am afraid, scared, she will contact OM... she got so defensive! Angry because I was still afraid and scared because she was doing everything right! Being a good W.. yet I still have feeling that are related to trust.. I still DO have these feelings... but I am less afraid to move on to a new life today if she does make that decision...


This was an example of the way I communicate to my wife these days... She crossed a boundary of mine.. My boundary to protect my happiness... My wife is not going to call, go drinking, nor text, any man on a regular bases during off work hours. See, I allowed her to go have drinks with OM (I thought all her friends at work) after work, 30 minute phone calls coming home from her work, texting while I was away on business… or coaching the kids. It was a lot of communication. I will not be with a woman that NEEDS that kind of relationship with a man… plane and simple. It is a slippery slope, I never did it… I expect the same. So, I notice my W starting the same kind of relationship with her new boss… Thus, my letter below…

Dear Lord, I pray for happiness, comfort, and purpose in life. I pray for safety in our family and success so that we may help others. Give us strength. Amen.

Dear T,

After being gone 6 days, I missed being with you greatly. My uncertainties are escalated when I am gone. My visions of a more loving reception last night turned into feelings of slight sadness, slight jealously at the attention given to your friends, and slight rejection. I tried to fight off the feelings with no success last night. I know I am very sensitive right now and must somehow become that “Lion” again. That is only something I can do. I do see all you do to love me right now. The dinner, signed Colts football, that simple touch at that game, and you making love to me last night did make me feel happy.

To add on my feelings last night, I see you now developing personal relationship with a man beyond a work relationship. This is something I am not ready for yet, and that is crossing my personal boundaries of acceptance. I do not know Jeff, or Travis, and I know these men cannot possible care about my feeling or me. Any “one on one” personal stuff beyond work without my presents is going to make me feel uncomfortable, uneasiness, and unsafe. I wish I felt different T. As a comparison, I asked you to consider a simple text by me to Sue (my co-worker) while at the game? WTF, whatever that is about? Or whatever… This, after coming off a week where OM and his business was discussed extensively concerning (Wife’s Friend at OM’s company).

I am not trying to control your life. I don’t want to control your life. It is totally up to you how you want to treat me right now. But I am not going to bury my feelings like years past.

You mean so much to me. I want to spend the rest of my life with you.

Love D

You know what? My wife loved me enough to want not to make me live in fear... scared. She wants to make me feel at ease... so she doesn't text, meet with, or call any of those men at her new office for any personal reasons... I have great respect for her new boss.. he's in his 2nd Marriage... he didn't respond to my W's personal text! I think he's got some boundaries too...

[This message edited by trynhard at 9:15 AM, March 29th (Monday)]


Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
forgivenotforget
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Member # 11053
Default  Posted: 8:47 AM, March 29th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

the changes he has made are many and big:
..he no longer verbally abuses me or the kids
..he no longer emotionally abuses me or the kids
..he no longer puts anything else before his family (me & kids)
..he finally sees his foo for the people they are and supports my decisions to cut them out with exception to those who are not working against us
..he is home all the time, from almost never
..he helps with everything around the house

Miracle, I've read this passage over a couple of times and have so many different thoughts when I do.
First, I really don't think our S's fully comprehend the extent of damage their years of abuse (in whatever form they have taken and there are many) have done to us. On one hand I want to commend your H for these changes and on the other, ask him if he possibly gets how those behaviors he practiced for years could have left scars and wounds that will take a very long time to heal.
I think so many people focus on physical or sexual abuse and possibly minimize the long term effects of verbal and emotional abuse. I do hope your H is coming to an understanding of how much damage these can cause. I am assuming he is because of the changes he is making and I am happy for you both.
But I am sad too because the damage for you seems to have left you with permanent scars and you are such a positive force here. I wish for your sake that your H would take the final and most important step and open up to you entirely because maybe then you two might have a chance.
Again, if you go back into HS's posts (sorry Shirley but your story is so amazing), it must have taken her H a great deal of courage to come completely clean. He had to know the risk to himself but in doing that he gave HS the choice to try and move forward or to walk away and to her credit she chose to work with him for their M and family. Not many H's have that kind of courage. I think admitting the truth to her showed a tremendous respect and love for HS.
I feel sad for PFM because his fear of giving you what you need to cross that barrier is likely to have the outcome he so doesn't seem to want.
For myself, I came to a point where I felt I knew all I needed to know to make a decision to stay or leave. Others want much more. As FWS's who claim they want the M to work, they have to have the guts and love enough to step up and give the BS whatever it is they need to heal.
He is so close in so many positive ways. What a shame he hasn't made the one, most important step. Who knows what positive things might come from complete transparency.


D-day - 12/23/05 LTA - 8 years.
"Love's a matter of trust and I just want to believe in us." M McBride

Posts: 1901 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: A tunnel where I'm beginning to see the light
trynhard
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Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 8:53 AM, March 29th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

forgivenotforget, You are the reason I first post here...

You shared this with me and I try everyday to live by it...

"Happiness is the consequence of personal effort. You fight for it, strive for it, insist upon it, and sometimes even travel around the world looking for it. You have to participate relentlessly in the manifestations of your own blessings. And once you have achieved a state of happiness, you must never become lax about maintaining it. You must make a mighty effort to keep swimming upward into that happiness forever, to stay afloat on top of it."
— Elizabeth Gilbert (Eat, Pray, Love: One Woman's Search for Everything Across Italy, India and Indonesia)

Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
forgivenotforget
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Member # 11053
Default  Posted: 9:02 AM, March 29th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

and I try everyday to live by it...

Me too tryin!
I have always been a happy person, always felt like my life was blessed and then I found out about my H's LTA. It crushed me beyond belief.
It has been a long, difficult journey but I feel I am finally getting back my joy. My sister's recent death took another major shot at my happiness. I miss her so much. She was my best friend and helped me throughout this long ordeal. But I try to think of her now as my own personal angel and I know that she is watching over me.
Life can be so tough and we have to be tougher. I try all the time to look at the "glass as half full" and I have always tried to live by the serenity prayer. I think we can find true peace if we can live by that.
You have come a long way in a relatively short time. I know you still hurt but I sense great strength and determination and a generosity of spirit that I hope your W truly appreciates.


D-day - 12/23/05 LTA - 8 years.
"Love's a matter of trust and I just want to believe in us." M McBride

Posts: 1901 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: A tunnel where I'm beginning to see the light
iwantamiracle
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Member # 22812
Default  Posted: 9:14 AM, March 29th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

never ever apologize to me for ramblin..i think i am the queen...

thankyou for answering my question, and i would like to tell you what i see...

i see a man who looks as though he has come to grips with what he has done, and seems to be the type that if you know what the problem is, just fix it...i get the impression that doing what he is doing is just that fixing it...and if you think about it, it is...he has set in motion boundaries he obviously did not have before...usually i am a huge proponet of getting professional help for ws's...mostly because i feel that to not get to the root cause is not making sure it won't happen again....

i get the feeling that he doesn't care what the root cause is, he just won't go there again and he will make sure he does not go there again...for him it seems to be enough that he almost lost you....

anyways i could be off base, i sometimes am...

and when you signed on to si with that name you were in a different place then you are now.....the walls you had up then may not necessarily be the same walls that are up now...

all walls though go up for the same reason, to protect our hearts...doesn't work too often, because we still feel the pain...its kind of like a mask we think we wear that will protect us...but its superficial at best....even knowing this i still build those darn walls..

thank you for sharing fnf..


i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
iwantamiracle
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Member # 22812
Default  Posted: 9:15 AM, March 29th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

i just realized that i wrote my post, got a phone call and came back and posted it without reading the next posts...ok so back i go to read them now..


i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
forgivenotforget
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Member # 11053
Default  Posted: 9:25 AM, March 29th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

i get the feeling that he doesn't care what the root cause is, he just won't go there again and he will make sure he does not go there again...for him it seems to be enough that he almost lost you....

Hey Miracle, when were you talking to my H!!


D-day - 12/23/05 LTA - 8 years.
"Love's a matter of trust and I just want to believe in us." M McBride

Posts: 1901 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: A tunnel where I'm beginning to see the light
iwantamiracle
♀ Member
Member # 22812
Default  Posted: 9:42 AM, March 29th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

ok i caught up..


fnf: pfm believes he has told me everything there is...he cannot remember anymore....and this is possible, i believe it is how he passed the poly...i think he has selective memory, for years he would throw things in my face concerning his foo, but when it came to remembering anything his foo did, he never did...i think when one is faced with what they feel is so much hurt, it cnnot be processed so i believe that he never learned how to process all that he has experienced, i do not think he is capable of remembering all that he has done because to do so would require him to see just how hurtful he truly was, even now everytime something comes up and we could clearly see just how hurtful he was for so long, he breaks down....i also believe he compartmenalized for his entire life, once something was in a box, unitl it was needed it stayed in that box...and then there are things filed away in boxes never to be seen again..

and yes it is sad, i have said it many times, i finally have the husband i always knew he was capable of being, but one..he is still a liar...

and he still lies, he cannot help himself, and he lies about the smallest to obviously the biggest...and that is not something i can live with...

Hey Miracle, when were you talking to my H!!

i have not talked to him, but would welcome the opportunity ...i am always ready for a good debate, or more likely ready to learn more about people in general...stupid me thinks that the more i learn the more prepared i can be ....like that is a possiblity....sometimes it is...and then NOT...


i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
old dipstick
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Member # 25598
Default  Posted: 11:22 AM, March 29th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Wow. I turn my back on you kids for 2.5 days and you all write a book! I have been trying to read and comprehend all this, and I have to say it has been pretty hard on a semi-senile old man. I guess that is what I get for skipping class.

Miracle, why I said the chances would be small about getting involved with a attached woman, is because I try to never say never. I don't know why I have that policy. Yes you are the queen of the ramble. You do have some serious challengers though.

tryn.

Good on the art and great advice and info. I will be reading everybody's posts from these past few days again.

Allgood.

My W does not even know about SI. She would not like it. This is really the only secret I have from her. Sometimes I fell bad about that, but it is a helpful and safe place to visit. That almost sounds like WS logic, doesen't it.
I don't think it would be a good idea to have your H come here. With his present attitude about things, I think it would just make him mad. I really doubt he would like the negative things you and others have written about him.

fnf

I don't know how a bs could ever completly forget about this trama. I have experienced a few other tramas and have not forgotton those. This A stuff is the one that sticks to me the most though.

Tribe.

I had a discussion with my W about things last Fri nite. My W got very mad. Screaming, yelling type mad. I was proud of my self as I stayed calm and did not raise my voice or make any smart ass remarks. I thought at one time she was going to get violent with me, but since she did not have a gun or club, I was not scared.

I was trying to explain about some things that were bothering me, non A and then A related. When I got to the A related part she exploded. She seems to think I have been throwing this in her face way to much for the last 20+ years. ( I think it has been mentioned less than 10 times ) Anyway during the session she said over and over that she was wrong, stupid, crazy, an idiot, sick, and that she was very sorry and ashamed. She also said that she was not wanting to stay if I was going to keep throwing this at her. She then asked what we should do. I mentioned C/MC. I got the usual, you need C not me. Also she would have a hard time doing this because of her work schedule.

She told me that I knew all I needed to know about things and gave me her so sorry speech plus she added that she did not ever desire another man, would not ever, etc. She asked what could I possibly want to know that I did not know. I picked what I thought would be a easy one. Why did her A with OM#2 end? Don't know. Who ended it? Don't know. How did it end? Don't know. So what I did find out is that I am probably never going to get any answers to anything.

I will say that her memory of other non A events from the past are not as good as mine. I have noticed that when we talk about past good times or bad, I have to fill in gaps and correct timelines. There was also some reconational drug use during her As, so that could be a reason for the memory gaps. I do find it hard, ( but not impossible ) to believe that she had no answer to my three questions.

Sometime during this she suggested that I get on the internet and research these subjects. She is not a internet computer person at all so she has zero idea about the info here.

The yelling and screaming is not a common occurance. She was and is very embarassed about that. It is so strange dealing with this. Sat & Sun she was back to being miss pleasent, fun, W.

She needs IC for sure. Here is the problem. She views everything as black and white, good or bad. To use Allgood's H as an example. He does not think much of IC, but he does go. He compromised. He at least saw the gray area in this. A person with my W's disorder can not see the gray area. To get her to IC would require that she change from viewing IC as totality black to totality white. Even if I could accomplish that change she would probably switch back and forth before ever getting to IC. I only tell everyone that as I know you all will suggest she see IC.

All of this was not as tramatic for me as it sounds. Thanks to you all here and a bpd board that I read, I have been able to process all of this in a pretty healthy and constructive manner.

I better quit for now. I do not want to knock miracle off her "Queen of the ramble throne."

Hugs to the tribe.


Her WW 60
Me BH 60
M 36 yr
D-day#1 fall of 76 OM#1 2NS
D-day#2 summer of 89 OM#2 LTA 8 yrs OM#3 Short Term A


Posts: 751 | Registered: Sep 2009
iwantamiracle
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Member # 22812
Default  Posted: 11:25 AM, March 29th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

fnf: i am sorry i got sidetracked earlier, i meant to respond to you bringing up hs husband..anyways...a while back someone here suggested i look up his profile and show it to pfm...i did ....when i read his profile 2 things hit me...1 how he listed all of his indiscretions so bluntly seemingly without any emotion
and 2 the sheer amount and that it had been from the getgo,...this was something i could relate to....

i have a deep admiration for hs, she was able to get past so much...the only difference is that where pfm is concerned, he always put his ow first, and one of them he loved more then he ever loved me and for a hell of alot longer to boot...i also have i admit an admiration for her husband who seemingly has done what needs to be done to keep his wife and family intact including being completely honest...and he was honest from the getgo which is huge...

o.k...i think i covered it all, if not i will be back later...


i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
trynhard
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Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 3:46 PM, March 29th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hey Dip... You really think you need that info after all those years?

she said over and over that she was wrong, stupid, crazy, an idiot, sick, and that she was very sorry and ashamed.
That sounds pretty good to me...

I got the usual, you need C not me.
Yes... I'd go if I were you.

Why did her A with OM#2 end? Don't know. Who ended it? Don't know. How did it end? Don't know.
It's obvious to me she didn't like that relationship or she would have left you for him...or some other man. What would you achieve in your mind by knowing that info? Would knowing that stuff really put you at total peace?

OK here's my summary... You had a drugged out greedy W that cheated. She had no boundaries and admits it was likely the most horrible thing she will ever do in her life. She changed her ways. She has since loved you for years… and proved it to you… she proved it to you with time… She wants to die with you going into the future… into your golden years that are coming soon in this next phase of your life…. and for some reason Dip, you have yet to let it go.

Why do you think that is Dip? What is informing your amygdale to cause your trigger? Is it curiosity? Does this all still sting? Do you still have visions? Is it because you have not yet forgiven? Do you know how to forgive? Is it just long term memory popping out? Is it your mid-life crisis happening? Deep inside, do you think you want to leave your W? Do you still consider your W so perfect, you just cannot accept she did this you? You have not accepted this trauma? You still have anger not yet let go? Take that dip stick and drive it deep in your brain! What is it? and what do you need to do to pull yourself out of it?

Oh man… I’m trying too hard… lol.. What do you think Dip?

Have a seat and I'll get Dr. iwantamiracle.

No really dip.. why so long and still at it?

[This message edited by trynhard at 3:51 PM, March 29th (Monday)]


Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
iwantamiracle
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Member # 22812
Default  Posted: 4:16 PM, March 29th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

oh tryn: fire a few questions at dip why don't you..


o.k. seems like my posting today is off kilter a bit...


dip: here are my questions:

can you live with knowing you will never know?

can you let it all go?

i know you really did let alot of it go for so many years, but some of it still haunts you...i will ask another question like i did to allgood: what if you just made the app and took her there, would she go...would she at least be more at ease if it were mc as opposed to ic....?

i fear you may be a crossroads with this, and i believe you already know this and have been trying tell us this, but stubborn group that we are, we didnt accept what i think long ago you had accepted...so now it would mean finding a way to live with what is, finding acceptance with what is ...much like fnf....


btw tryn i like that couch... ...how did i do?


i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
UKgirl
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Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 5:06 PM, March 29th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Allgood, my FWH knows I come here (stands in the doorway asking how long I’m going to be), but I would never encourage him to read or join. He doesn’t want to and he doesn’t want to read stuff. This is my place. Sometimes I’ll read a few lines to him, but that’s about it. He knows miracle has had a tummy tuck and m33 has had her fourth baby. That Captiva and I met for lunch, but not too much of what we talked about. I did give him the ebook Infidelity Crisis – How to Regain Forgiveness and Respect after your Affair. I think it helped him see things from my point of view.

Why did her A with OM#2 end? Don't know. Who ended it? Don't know. How did it end? Don't know.
It seems it doesn’t matter to her. And IC would probably be a waste of time and money when she probably needs a heavy weight psychiatrist to open her closed mind before even suggesting she has issues to be addressed. Do you think she doesn’t like the essential person that is Mrs Dipstick? That if she looks to closely she would be traumatised by finding out some things she has buried?

If you have a pain in your ankle, you have a problem walking. So you see a podiatrist who tells you it’s not your ankle, it’s your back. The pain is in your ankle because you are compensating for the damage in your back which was done years ago. The pain is several years of low level wear and tear and inappropriate self medication for damaged vertebrae. So, you see a specialist, get your back sorted and your ankle stops hurting because you are walking properly again. You can equate that analogy to your marriage. You are going to IC (for the pain in your ankle) when the problem requires your FWW to go to IC (the origin of the pain stems from years ago) and only when both problems are addressed can you move forward as a whole and no longer be in discomfort or pain. Does that make sense? Or am I rambling nonsensically?

i get the feeling that he doesn't care what the root cause is, he just won't go there again and he will make sure he does not go there again...for him it seems to be enough that he almost lost you....
Hand up. FWH too. “I’ve done it, I’ve admitted it, I’m not going to do it again. That’s it, let’s move on……please” Root cause? Excuses aplenty, but cause? He had it all wrapped up in “unfinished dialogue”.

Oh, and last night I asked him what was so special about V-Day 2002. Got the predicted reply – “I have no idea what you are talking about” So I said it must have been some anniversary or something as he had managed to count the days – all 1,580 of them – in a text to her. Tracking back, it was V-Day 2002; so, what was special about the date? “I don’t know” But he did say “yes, I suppose so” to my suggestion that MOW was his muse…………… And so I deduce there is the very real possibility she could reappear. And the rest which I won’t bore you with. I got the usual lies and blah di blah.


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3327 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
UKgirl
♀ Member
Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 5:13 PM, March 29th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

can you live with knowing you will never know?
As BS’s, we will never know. We weren’t there. That’s it, really.
And why isn’t my SI keeping up with real time? Tryn’ and miracle’s last postings were not there when I was typing – and I’m not that slow…… leastways, don’t think I am.
Trundling off to bed now. Night night.


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3327 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
njgal480
♀ Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 5:34 PM, March 29th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi everyone.
Dipstick... I wanted to reach out with a long distance hug.
I for one know exactly what you are going through.... a long time after d-day or not...your questions are valid and deserve answers...
Our spouses traumatized us by living a double life!
A LTA is essentially that...a double life.
All of our beliefs about what our marriages, our lives,our spouses,ourselves..all of those beliefs were shattered when we found out about the LTAs.
That is traumatic.
We are suffering from PISD (post infidelity stress disorder)...
You deserve answers to your questions...just like I do...Our spouses know what happened..why they did things, what they did...their amnesia is a very convenient way of avoiding facing who they were...how low they had sunk...they can't face the truth so they avoid talking about it...and the thing that gets me is how often they use a very explosive, angry outburst to try to stifle all questions as to the A or AP.
Yes, Tryin..in a perfect world we would be calm, peaceful, forgiving....etc.
but, in reality there are triggers all around us that make us suddenly remember the level of betrayal and lies that our spouses were (are?) capable of...
Hugs to all the BS here on SI...especially to us LTA survivors.


Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
trynhard
♂ Member
Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 5:47 AM, March 30th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

njgal480... You are so right... PISD!

Everyone needs to read Transcending Post-Infidelity Stress Disorder: The Six Stages of Healing By Dennis C. Ortman

You can read much of it on googles book page...I have not read the whole book... only what is on google... but it appears to be a way of helping us heal...

[This message edited by trynhard at 6:21 AM, March 30th (Tuesday)]


Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
gramsbear
♀ Member
Member # 19101
Default  Posted: 6:42 AM, March 30th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I just read some of his book on google.It is well written and spot on.
This man pratices near where I live.
I am hoping to be able to see him professionally.I believe he could help me alot.

Posts: 866 | Registered: Apr 2008 | From: mich
iwantamiracle
♀ Member
Member # 22812
Default  Posted: 9:10 AM, March 30th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

welcome gram to the lta corner....

keep us posted on that visit should it happen..


ukgirl

Tryn’ and miracle’s last postings were not there when I was typing

that happened to me a few times yesterday too...

As BS’s, we will never know. We weren’t there. That’s it, really

this is true, however there is a point where you need to know certain particulars, for each of us these particulars are diff....most of us i think are reasonable in the expectation level of what we know they can tell us and what they refuse to tell us...and that i believe is where some of the problems lie...

And so I deduce there is the very real possibility she could reappear.

if she reappears will you know? and living with something that may never happen can be so exhausting....i would think for those of you who are trying to make your marriages work that this is something you would need to learn to come to terms with, and to accept this and then move on from it...kind of like preparing for a tornado, you take all the precautions, you have a plan ready, but its a beautiful day, do you sit at the window wondering when that tornado will hit or do you live your life until it does....

only when both problems are addressed can you move forward as a whole and no longer be in discomfort or pain. Does that make sense? Or am I rambling nonsensically?

i actually understood you perfectly..

now, for dip and the ankle/back...he could also apply a brace, not quite as good as fixing the back permanently but will allow him to function quite well, and every now and again a dose of physical therapy for some adjustments to his new way of walking...granted tis much better to get the original problem tended too, but this seems to be a NON option...of course there is also the option of cutting out the old back and getting a new one, but the pain and torture to go through that and then who knows how his ankle will respond to a new back...o.k. enough body talk for me, i am starting to get carried away with all this analogy stuff...and i didn't go back to the tornado one...

i do not think i slept enough last nite.. ..so warning warning to all of you wonderful people here i may take it out on all of you with my dipstickitis...

tryn: i will have to add that book to my list...

njgal:

You deserve answers to your questions...just like I do...Our spouses know what happened..why they did things, what they did...their amnesia is a very convenient way of avoiding facing who they were...how low they had sunk...they can't face the truth so they avoid talking about it...and the thing that gets me is how often they use a very explosive, angry outburst to try to stifle all questions as to the A or AP.

yes we all deserve answers and in that perfect world we would get them...but we all live in a non-perfect world don't we...so we need to adapt, yes this sucks but necessary to achieve some semblance of happiness....if you cannot adapt then you need to end it....otherwise all you are doing is chasing in circles never quite ending up at a destination that you would like to stay at...

there comes a point where you should either accept it as what it is or move on.....to stay in this vicious circle will only serve to wear you out leaving you breathless and exhausted, not a state in which you could live somewhat happy or content....

the angry responses are uncalled for, those need never be accepted...anger is rooted in fear....i would think that after asking over and over and over and getting no where you would eventually stop asking for it serves no purpose.....

i knew i could not live happily without those answers so i choose to move on....there comes a point in time when you need to take your power back and decide...will you accept what you know and move on from there trying to find a way to accept this and move on with this s, or will you decide once and for all that you cannot live with the never knowing.....


all:

other then not providing you with answers to the past, what is your ws doing NOW and what it your ws doing for the FUTURE?...is this enough to build on?..

surviving an lta is only part of what we do, surviving it with out marriages intact in another entity, and surviving an lta and finding some happiness is possible and ultimately something most of us would like, we have all seen glimpses of that with some of our tribe, but in order to do just that you need to come off that merry-go-round...pick a road and begin the journey of acceptance...

oh my i have rambled quite enough, for now anyways..


i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
forgivenotforget
♀ Member
Member # 11053
Default  Posted: 9:16 AM, March 30th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

You deserve answers to your questions...just like I do...Our spouses know what happened..why they did things, what they did...their amnesia is a very convenient way of avoiding facing who they were...how low they had sunk...they can't face the truth so they avoid talking about it...

Well Miracle, I know you've said you're the queen of rambling but I'm going to try to give you some competition today.
Here goes:
There are so many on this forum who struggle because they know they don't have the full truth about their S's LTA's. It is such a roadblock for so many. It really hurts to know how much pain this brings to those of you who need to know the whole truth about what went on during those years of their betrayal.
It makes me question myself all the time. What's wrong with me that I don't really want to know? Am I a coward? Do I not love my H enough to want to know it all so that I can finally let go and love him fully?
Am I afraid that if I do learn the whole truth "and nothing but the truth" I won't ever be able to love him again? Or could it be that even if he told me more of the truth I would always feel that wasn't all of it?
Here's what I know so far: My H admits to an 8 year LTA with a coworker. They had sex at least twice a week, every week, in the office after hours. They took 2 business trips together (I was even good enough to drive them to the airport ). She was absolutely in love with my H and my H admits that he loved the attention and the fact that she would do anything for him both in and out of bed.
Here's what I don't know:
If he was really in love with her or just used her for sex and all the adoration she showered on him. If it was only 8 years or, as his partner told me, much closer to 12 years. If there were others over the course of our M or if she was the only one.
Once, after I delivered our firstborn, the baby turned blue in the middle of the night when I was still in the hospital. I was in a panic, rang for the nurse, and immediately tried to call my H. NO ANSWER. Where the fuck was he at 3 a.m.? According to him, he was out celebrating with his cousin. WTF??? Maybe, who knows?
I guess what I'm trying to say is sometimes we (or at least I) have enough information to see what kind of man I have been married to and I can make a decision to stay or to go knowing that my H led a double life for a fucking long time. He lied, cheated, brought her into my life, bought her presents (that I picked out for him btw ), and so on and so on and so on. It is nauseating and as I'm writing I am actually shaking at the thought of it all.
So what if I found out it was 12 years, that there were others in our past?
Now this is a totally different thing if I discovered that the A never ended or that he started up another, or that he verbally or emotionally continued his abuse. This is the now!
When I decided to stay and try to reconcile, I used a very pragmatic approach to making my decision. Kind of like you, Miracle, where you knew you needed to keep your M in order to help your son and for your other children too.
Me, I had my D's wedding 2 1/2 months after D-day. I did not want her to suffer and have the wedding ruined and so I stayed. I am approaching 60. Why the hell would I want to start over at this stage of my life and who the hell knows what kind of man I'd find myself with? Maybe just another cheater, there's enough of them out there (not you trying and dip ).
Financially we are very comfortable. I have a good life in all other aspects.
Why give up the level of comfort I have if I can stay and try to make this work, (again this was only going to be if my H was sincere in trying to R)?
Finally, what did I need to do in order to live with my decision to stay? That's where the walls come in. I know this sounds truly sucky.
It's not the life I ever dreamed of or envisioned for myself. But where once I was an idealist, this experience has altered me a bit and I now feel I am a pragmatist. I love having my family together. I never wanted to D and have our family celebrations, holidays, etc., divided between 2 homes. I love my home, I love my family, I love our social life, I love my life in general. I hate that we have this stigma and pain of his LTA. I will never stop totally hurting from it but as long as my H continues to work with me on our M, I will stay.
If I found out more from him about other indiscretions, or that he was never faithful, I'm not sure I could continue in this M. I don't want to know about them. I chose to live in the now. It works for me.
I know that many of you don't feel this way but how much more detail do we need to find out to define who these S's were during those years?
ETA - Hey, Miracle, I think I discovered another wall - one that blocks any more of the ugliness out that may or may not be my H.

[This message edited by forgivenotforget at 9:50 PM, March 30th (Tuesday)]


D-day - 12/23/05 LTA - 8 years.
"Love's a matter of trust and I just want to believe in us." M McBride

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