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User Topic: Long Term Affair X V I I
iwantamiracle
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Member # 22812
Default  Posted: 9:24 AM, March 30th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

fnf: you must have been typing while i posted...

love your post btw...i think we have a theme for the day!


i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
forgivenotforget
♀ Member
Member # 11053
Default  Posted: 9:53 AM, March 30th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks miracle - and unfortunately I have to leave for the day. I am thinking of so many other things I want to say but I'll be late if I don't get going now. Life goes on!!!!
Hugs to the tribe!


D-day - 12/23/05 LTA - 8 years.
"Love's a matter of trust and I just want to believe in us." M McBride

Posts: 1901 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: A tunnel where I'm beginning to see the light
UKgirl
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Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 10:30 AM, March 30th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

other then not providing you with answers to the past, what is your ws doing NOW and what it your ws doing for the FUTURE?...is this enough to build on?..
It’s very difficult to know what he is doing because I had no idea he was having an affair anyway. Ok, I have never posted the list (could be controversial), but this is it:

Here some of the best tips to get away with an affair.
1. Be honest with your new partner. This is to be an affair and be honest about your current situation.
2. Pick the right person. You need to find someone to fill the bit that’s missing and they need you to do the same. They need to understand they are just the person you are having an affair with.
3. If possible, your affair partner should be married also...this way there are no expectations.
4. Know your affair partner very well or don't know them at all.
5. Don't fool around with someone you and your current partner both know. Neighbours and co-workers is a bad idea as well. Find someone not local to your area and who you have a small chance of encountering while you are out.
6. Keep a low profile when you are out with your affair partner. Do not lavish inappropriate attention in public.
7. Do your best to meet with your affair partner away from your local area - somewhere far enough away that you do not know people and people do not know you. A radius of 50 miles should be sufficient.
8. Never bring your affair partner to your home.
9. Never go to your affair partner's home (unless they are completely single and free from the ties of marriage and/or a serious relationship.)
10. Try to set up a regular schedule of "dates" with your affair partner. If your spouse expects you often to be out of town for business overnight, he/she will not suspect anything when you maintain this schedule and include your affair partner in your overnight stays.
11. Have a secret meeting place. Meet them at a hotel/motel and always shower after sex. If you don't bathe afterwards, you will smell like sex
12. Never call your affair partner from your home phone and/or your cell phone (if your spouse has access to your phone record.) If you use your cell, delete all texts and call logs.
13. When you are together, nothing else exists. Forget about the guilt. For the time you are together, it is just you. And you are allowed to be happy together, without triggering feelings of guilt.
14. Do not make promises you cannot keep. Nothing will prompt your affair partner to reveal your affair to your spouse quicker than your failure to fulfil some insincere commitment to end your marriage for him or her.
15. Do not tell anyone about your illicit trysts. You should trust very few, if any, friends with your secret. Eventually someone will tell.
16. Do not become too confident in your ability to deceive your spouse. If you become too sure of yourself, you will get sloppy and you may get caught.
17. Act as normal as possible. If you were late home from work and you usually go up to your spouse and give them a kiss hello, do this – normal body language is important.
18. Keeping your current spouse or partner happy is the best way to avoid growing suspicions. Don't change the things you do with them day to day. Most importantly, maintain normal sexual relations with them.
19. Watch your lies. Telling lie after lie is hard to keep track of. Telling partial truths may be more effective. If you went to a meeting, then say so. Leave out the details going to a hotel room afterwards.
20. Do not change your habits. You will raise suspicions if you do.
21. Do not be tempted into buying a whole new wardrobe or a new style of fragrance. If you buy your affair partner fragrance, make sure it is the same as the one your current partner normally wears.
22. Relationships can be expensive. Keep your finances within realistic limits.
23. Use cash rather than a credit card. If you live with someone they may have easy access to your statements and it is easy to forget to dispose of the receipt.
24. There is no such thing as an affair that can end happily.
25. Do not fall in love.

The obvious one he failed on was #25.
Also #9, but her BH worked away from home and it was “easier” to go to her house as BH would ring the landline……. How considerate.
#14, asking her to marry him,
#23 but it was a company credit card so even better than cash and so doesn’t count, and
#24 because he didn’t think about how it would end at all.
She was nothing to do with the rest of his life. No links at all, not even mutual old school friends. And she lives 80 miles away, just off the motorway interchange and near an airport - how convenient.

He had a company laptop and email address that, as a co director, only went to HIM and mobile phone fully paid for by the company and it was only half way through the affair he got detailed billing. He now has a fully funded blackberry.

There is NOTHING he can do to prove he is NOT having an affair. He is in Venice again this week. I saw and printed off his tickets, but he used to ask me during the affair to do that occasionally. That would have been to alley any suspicions (him being “open”) and even then, he may have still seen her while on business before catching his flight (easier to stay near the airport for the morning flight, you never know with the traffic, blah lie blah).

He is a salesman. He is very, very good. He is very clever. He is manipulative. He empathises rather than argues. He has brilliant opening and closing methods. And, I have no doubt there were times when he was “testing” me and then doing a reassurance act.

So why am I still here? After reading this, good question but no answer. But, like FNF, I had sound reasons for not kicking him into the kerb on d-day. I considered my family first. My family and my life. I was NOT going to let something like this destroy it. And. He lied. He lied sooooo well. I believed him and then the trickle truth started one week after with a book I found. I just never got my head around how much he lied to me when all I wanted to know were straight forward answers to my questions to try and fathom out why when he was all broken up and pleading to stay. I couldn’t understand it. I still don’t.

Gotta run.

[This message edited by UKgirl at 10:34 AM, March 30th (Tuesday)]


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3328 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
iwantamiracle
♀ Member
Member # 22812
Default  Posted: 10:39 AM, March 30th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(((ukgirl)))

i hope for you to find some peace...some peace of what is your life...you have chosen to stay in the marriage, and it is obviously tearing you up on the inside...i know you still have some happy times with him, i know its not always lousy staying married to him, but your insides seem to be churning...is there any way for you to let all of that go...and make a decision that if and when you ever find out that there was another, then you could and would move to plan B..but until then try to live in the now....and believe me i know so much easier said then done...esp with his job always taking him away...can you join in him on his trips...surprise him while he is on his trips last minute so that you could see first hand all there is to see....

((((ukgirl)))


i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
Allgoodnamesgone
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Member # 26157
Default  Posted: 10:44 AM, March 30th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Just wanted to say "Hi".
I had a lot to catch up with and so I forget who posted the tornado analogy -but that really sank in with me -so thank you.
Went out on a date night last night which turned disastrous after I drank too much and brought up ow for no apparent reason whatsoever. I said horrible things. I'm pissed at myself.
But, wh is taking it in stride and when I called to tell him that I was sorry about that (said it last night too) and told him I appreciate it that he keeps trying even though its so hard he told me that he wants to be with me, so he doesn't have a choice. It was meant in a good, reassuring way.
So, started the Forgiveness book HurtShirley recommended this morning & hope it helps. I will say, however, that I will never buy a book of this type "used" again, because it is covered in the markings of someone else who appears to be in greater pain than me. A little distracting to say the least.
Anyway, gotta go earn a living.
Later all.


Me- BS
DDay- 8/26/09
Separated after failed R effort.

Posts: 2165 | Registered: Nov 2009
UKgirl
♀ Member
Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 10:45 AM, March 30th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Financially we are very comfortable. I have a good life in all other aspects.
Why give up the level of comfort I have if I can stay and try to make this work, (again this was only going to be if my H was sincere in trying to R)?
Finally, what did I need to do in order to live with my decision to stay? That's where the walls come in. I know this sounds truly sucky.
It's not the life I ever dreamed of or envisioned for myself. But where once I was an idealist, this experience has altered me a bit and I now feel I am a pragmatist………I will never stop totally hurting from it but as long as my H continues to work with me on our M, I will stay.
Ditto. I am a SAHW&M. Okay so three boys are in NZ, but they are only there because they don’t know and we are still together. I would guarantee they would not be gallivanting around the world if we were divorced. I guarantee DS4 would not be predicted with straight A*’s. I pretty much think DS2 would have messed up his degree. I have not worked, I have no pension. I managed WH’s sideline business and that salary finished this month. Guess I’m now “out of work”!!!!!

If you like, I will repost here Maia’s thread about mirroring. It’s the NLP technique and my WH used it instinctively.

Now I’ve really gotta run!!

eta:
"I drank too much and brought up ow for no apparent reason whatsoever. I said horrible things. I'm pissed at myself"
Did that Sunday.

[This message edited by UKgirl at 10:47 AM, March 30th (Tuesday)]


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3328 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
trynhard
♂ Member
Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 10:53 AM, March 30th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

In staying with the theme of the day brough on by Dips need to know...

For me, my W did answer many questions. She does not want to answer any more. I have not asked her a Q since December 09... before that it might have been over the summer 09. She wants to leave it in the past... I'm sure she thinks it will only hurt me if she tells me more. The fact is, she's right. For me today, it has become more of a "curiosity" to want to know more. I really don't want them to become more "triggers". I have enough of those with everyday celebrities being exposed.. lol... Today, I'm satisfied with what I know. She had EA... she had sex 1 to 2 times a week... Every once in a while I can get by an Extended Stay America Hotel without thinking about them have sex... Today, I could have been satisfied without knowing the Hotel brand but I needed to know back then... This reminds me of something that happened to me... I'll tell you a story about the Hotel. The Hotel is across the street from our dentist. 6 months or so after dday, I was sitting in the dentist chair, looking at the Hotel throught the window. The Dentist was drilling away on a broken filling. The novocain wore off while she was working. I wanted that pain. I said nothing. She could tell something was not right and stopped, but I said I was all right. I wanted it to hurt worse.. I wanted that pain! Masochism! yep... I understand it now

I do know why both my W's A ended... the first ended after I started to get suspicious... I could not even remember that myself? The second ended when that letter from "A Christian" came in the mail.

Allgoodnamesgone... you gave me a chuckle with the used book... Don't be too worried about what you did on your date night.. just try again...

UK.. My W and OM would have scored well on that post you made about A's... But in time, you make mistakes. God touched the right person to tell me... It was the beginning of ended for misery and started the awaking.

Oh well life does go on.... Peace out.

[This message edited by trynhard at 11:16 AM, March 30th (Tuesday)]


Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
old dipstick
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Member # 25598
Default  Posted: 11:12 AM, March 30th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Tribe.

Thanks for all the thoughts questions and advice.

To answer some of trynhard question of why so long and still at it. Not real long after d-day during TT my W has a nervous breakdown. The questions got put on hold because she could not handle this stuff. There was a very real concern that she would harm herself or worse. It is like I read a few chapters of a mystery novel and had the book taken away. I have always been a little curious about the rest of the story.

During these past years, I often wondered if I even had a right to know the details of this crime. I only know names and that she was involved with them. If I sat next to these men somewhere I would never know who they were. I know that as far as the sex, she claims what ever she has done with me she did the same with them. Nothing more, but nothing less.

When I found info like this site, I discovered that the majority opinion is that I should have been able to ask questions and that most BSs seen to want to ask about things. That is very clear by reading the healing library and the post here by BSs. I have seen it said several time that the "just get over it" method is not the way to go.

Do I think any of these details will help me? I don't know. Everyone here has asked their WSs questions. I think all here understand why I would want to do the same. Before her breakdown, I was in the shock phase of the BS fog. I did not know what questions to ask, and I had very little guidance.

When she made the statements about how wrong she was, I do believe her. I told her I do. When she says she is not wanting to do that again, I belive her. When she says she would never do it again, I only half believe her. That is why she will never have a job where she is on the road again and be M to me. Sooner or later a man who "knows how to say all the right things." will hit on her. Would she chase him away or like the attention?

BTW. I asked her what were the "right things to say." Guess what? She does not know what they are/were.

In order to answer why I was asking her these questions last Fri, I need to tell this stupid story.

While we were preparing our evening meal, she asked for advice about how to handle a work situation. I agreed with some of her plan but not all of it. She got very mad and told me to get out of the house and leave her alone. Since I had ribs cooking out I was headed there anyway. When we ate she was back to everything was o.k. mood. My mood was a little blue. Of course she wanted to know why I was blue. I told her I did not like not being welcome in my own house. She says that I have always been welcome here. O.K. Here is where I admit to being stupid and saying the wrong thing. I said I know for a fact there have been times when I was not welcome here. ( I did not say this but, I don't think her boyfriend and her would have been happy to see me walk in ) Anyway she blew up because she knew what I ment. This started her on the "always throwing this stuff at her" crap. I went to my garage.

After about 15 min she showed up in the garage very mad and in my face. I bet this looked like a baseball manager screaming at a umpire, like you see on T.V.
That is when the MC/IC talk came up. She seems to be amazed that I would want any more info than what I have. She asked what could I possibly need to know? That is when I asked the who/why/how it ended questions. It was one of the first things that popped into my head, and it seemed like a easy and fairly non-controversal question.


Her WW 60
Me BH 60
M 36 yr
D-day#1 fall of 76 OM#1 2NS
D-day#2 summer of 89 OM#2 LTA 8 yrs OM#3 Short Term A


Posts: 751 | Registered: Sep 2009
trynhard
♂ Member
Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 11:38 AM, March 30th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Dip... there are times in your life you need to hire a pro. YOU Go and talk to a Marriage Counselor or a Psychologists... If it was me... I would go to a psychologist.

Since so much time has past, your situation is so much different.

It's seem you are having a very hard time accepting the fact your W was a selfish, greedy, self-centered, drugged up, egotistical, uncommitted, weak minded, controlling, horrible, evil, wicked kind of lady. You want those details of how dirty she was?

Do I understand that today you want to know what made her want to change... Those reasons she wanted to change? Reason she picked you? You know she changed.. That to me is the rest of the story... Who is she now Dip? Describe her to us...

BTW.. I fully understand your boundary to keep your mind in happiness… I will not be married to a woman that needs a job where she is away over nights time and time again.

[This message edited by trynhard at 11:57 AM, March 30th (Tuesday)]


Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
old dipstick
♂ Member
Member # 25598
Default  Posted: 11:57 AM, March 30th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I posted before I was done. Prematurepostulation again!

O.K. back to the soap opera.
Tryn. I would have never asked those Qs or pursued any of this last Fri if she would have taken the chance I gave her to cool off. She came after me with a clear mission to have a fight. It bothers her when I stay calm and do not get angry. The times I have gotton angry she then blames the fight on me.

miracle.

Were you jealous that tryn got to ask all those Qs before you did? You ar still the queen of questions. Tryn is the king though.

To make a appointment for IC/MC and just taking her there would be a disaster. I am 100% sure of that.

UKgirl.

My Ws has low self-esteem, had SAB in her youth,and FOO issues. Yes a psychiatrist would be in order. Yes what you said all made sense.

njgal.

Thank you. You are right we all deserve better. The explosive angry outbursts are a way for them to control you. It teaches you that to ask a Q is to risk a very bad time. You learn pretty quick that to touch a hot stove invites pain. They want to be the hot stove when they see/hear things that they do not want to deal with. When they need you, they turn to that nice cool summer breeze.

Tribe.

Thanks again for the thoughts and advice. I know I did not answer everyones Qs and I have probably not replied to everyone, but I have read what everyone wrote. It is spring here. A beautiful day for sure.

Hugs to the tribe.


Her WW 60
Me BH 60
M 36 yr
D-day#1 fall of 76 OM#1 2NS
D-day#2 summer of 89 OM#2 LTA 8 yrs OM#3 Short Term A


Posts: 751 | Registered: Sep 2009
UKgirl
♀ Member
Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 1:01 PM, March 30th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

When I found info like this site, I discovered that the majority opinion is that I should have been able to ask questions and that most BSs seen to want to ask about things. That is very clear by reading the healing library and the post here by BSs. I have seen it said several time that the "just get over it" method is not the way to go.
It is abundantly clear that you have not been able to “get over it”, otherwise you would not have still been googling around until you found SI. There are those who can bury it and get on with their lives, albeit with a different perspective, and there are those who can’t. And within the category of those who can’t are a whole load of sets and subsets with varying degrees of need to know detail.

Try saying it isn’t about her (although in part it is), say it is YOUR need and she needs to help YOU come to terms with this delayed reaction. You were there for her, even though you were the betrayed. You had to put all of your own dealings to one side while you managed her. When her “greedy, self-centered, drugged up, egotistical, uncommitted, weak minded,” etc (fucked up) self was brilliantly lit by the exposure of the affair, she couldn’t take it. She wouldn’t take it. But she expected you to be there. Well, she’s over that now. And now she has to recognise that she DID this to you. Does she expect to put herself first and never you? Just what is she so frightened of? She made choices and you had no input into those decisions. She made them all by herself. No one made her – whatever mental state she was in. I’m sorry Dip, but she OWES this to you. Do it in small pieces – no more than 20mins and at a calm time when you are not rushed. Try to get her to read Infidelity Crisis. Here’s the link:

http://www.aftertheaffair.net/

The download is at the bottom of the page. It’s non-threatening, written from a BS POV but to the WS. You can tell her this is a GIFT. You can tell her you are not ALLOWED to read it (you’re not). This is her chance to actually acknowledge what you are going through and for her to understand why you need to know.

But she does need serious therapy, imo from what you have told us.

can you join in him on his trips...surprise him while he is on his trips last minute so that you could see first hand all there is to see....
Not really. Got DS4 here and the ancient Labrador. Will be able to once said dog has sighed her last (she’s 15) and DS is 16, say nearer to Christmas. But I don’t think he’d be happy staying in a 6-bed house all by hisself! Mr UKg and I do go out for the day when he has business around here and I did accompany him when the boys were still here and when DS4 went on school trips. But, as I say, if they want to get together again, how would I ever know? You know, he even used to spray his used shirts with deodorant before putting them back in his bag – just in case they smelled of her perfume. He really had thought of everything.


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3328 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
honesttoafault
♀ Member
Member # 27105
Default  Posted: 9:59 PM, March 30th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Wow! I didn't log on for a few days and there has been so much going on!

Forgiveandforget: I really understand about you really NOT wanting to know all the details, You are not crazy. I didn't ask or want to know ANY details about my first xWH A, except Do you love her? I am glad to this day that I don't know ANY details about it, especially since he left and never looked back. I don't need that details to make it hurt more.
I guess the need to know details depends on so many things. Sometimes just the knowledge of the A (especially these LTA) is hard enough to fathom. Having more knowledge just hurts more. (Analogy time): it's like when you were a little kid and weren't invited to the party. Knowing or being told all the details of the party you missed just hurts more. It's not productive.

But, sometimes, we as BS's need to know certain details so we know we are not going crazy. Like we felt a lot of things in our gut, some things seemed out of whack or didn't make sense in our parallel "history" of the time of the affair. We want to know what was happening? Were we right to feel it? I'm sorry, I can't recall who said about when they had the baby in the hospital and then couldn't get hold of their WH? You wonder....was that why?

Everything involved with the whole A messes up our belief in what happened in the past. It's a rewrite of history and it's hard to accept and integrate with the knowledge of what we thought was going on.
In order to heal and go on, we don't need to know everything like they say on this site. BUT there are certain things that YOU as an individual may feel you need to know. Not just curiousity things like what color underwear she wore...but some things are necessary...like did you love her?
Forgive, I agree with your pragmatic approach right now. That was what I wanted to do, instead of being in limbo. I wanted to know what is happening NOW! I kept asking, trying to push him off the fence I knew he was on, and got the answer I didn't want to hear. I also heard, "I wanted to live "normal" with you. Now YOU have pushed me away with all your questions!" (I'm always at fault)

Dip: From what I can see from your posts, You seemed to have an interruption in your healing process because of your wife's breakdown. You needed healing and then had to put your needs aside to help her heal herself.
I think it's normal that these buried feelings are coming to the surface now. It may help to talk to someone about these buried feelings and see which ones may really be needed to be addressed with your wife. Some of them you may be able to let go, others, you may need to talk to her about.
I suggest that some day you and she sit down and you just let her know that there are some things that you still need to know. You are not attacking her, and will not blame her, but it's eating at you. Hopefully she will see that she is helping you heal, and that you are not bringing up "old" stuff to blame her with.

UKgirl: my WH sells things too. I guess they have the charisma and charm and the best thing they sell is themselves. (isn't that what they say anyway?)
Tryn: I love the art that you share with us. I especially liked your thoughtful comment on your own past posts. It's good to see the progression of feelings and how much you have progressed forward. I wish WH would even think of going to Retouvaille, but with my sitch, it wouldn't do any good.
What you said here:

..his culture, his history, his experience in life may be too much to change.

This really made me think a lot. We knew that we were from different cultures (and religions), and we had so many long discussions before we were married about that, we thought we agreed on 98% of most things. I guess that 2% was too strong. Thank you for pointing out something that was so obvious that I didn't even think about it.

Iwantamiracle: I love your thoughtful posts.
Your posts about your own situation sounds so bittersweet. My heart goes out to you when you said that you are living with a liar. It seems your WH has come such a long way. If he ever opened up and owned up to everything, would you feel you could continue, or "start" your marriage again? If not, {{{{{Miracle}}}}
You are right, I needed to line up my ducks yesterday. I've gone to a few lawyers and they are at a loss what to do with my sitch, one didn't want to touch my case with a 10 foot pole. I am researching on the internet for a lawyer who can specialize in my situation.

You said my WH acts like he's saying:

"you don't do what i want then i am gonna do this, that and the other thing...so there"

OMG! Did you meet him???

He used to say to me when we were dating, "I don't like it when you do this or that. You can do whatever you want, but if you continue to do this or that, then I will know what to do (or I will not invest in the relationship, or we'll just be friends, etc)

Did you tape him saying those things!! LOL. But seriously, you are right, I need to start tuning him out and disengaging from him. He is toxic, even my mother said that he is a cancer that I must remove.

I don't know what to do with him. He still calls, granted to talk about the kids, but he keeps telling me he loves me etc. I was trying to 180 him and not responding to this and acting like I was fine. But I've come to the conclusion that the 180 is for ME. To empower me (and miracle you are right, he has usurped everything from me). The 180 is to shift my focus from him to me and what I need for me and the kids. I decided that I wasn't going to pretend anymore that things were ok. I am telling him when he asks "how are you?" I am telling him, I am NOT ok. I feel terrible and hurt and sick.
I don't go into detail, but I started to feel like he was asking me how I was, and when I was doing typical 180 and acting like I was fine, he seemed relieved. I think he doesn't want guilt.

I can do guilt. MY MOTHER WAS A TRAVEL AGENT FOR GUILT TRIPS. and I learned a few tricks from her which I never used before in my life, but am willing to try now!!

I am not calling him at all, but I don't know if this is right. I am not trying to get revenge or purposely make him guilty, but damn if I have to put on an act and hurt myself for him anymore.

But damn it all, why do I still feel I love him?

[This message edited by honesttoafault at 10:11 PM, March 30th (Tuesday)]


Posts: 1903 | Registered: Jan 2010
trynhard
♂ Member
Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 8:08 AM, March 31st (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

honesttoafault.. I love the art that you share with us. Thank you. Good to see that post of yours... it is time for you to help us too...

UK... nice post for Dip... I'm suggesting Dip go seek help for himself... work out those feeling in his own head.

I think I am right there at the bottom of these charts.



I'm not sure my wife can forgiver herself... she just told me she feels "dead" inside....

Peace out!

[This message edited by trynhard at 8:12 AM, March 31st (Wednesday)]


Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
iwantamiracle
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Default  Posted: 9:08 AM, March 31st (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

tryn: i look at your charts and think they need more ups and more downs...they need to look like the rollercoaster...and then you need to be able to scramble all the emotions...and then it would be a clear depiction of what i think we feel....with exception to one of those positive act/emotion the rest belong at the bottom...the really low lows...

honest:

I am not calling him at all, but I don't know if this is right. I am not trying to get revenge or purposely make him guilty, but damn if I have to put on an act and hurt myself for him anymore.

But damn it all, why do I still feel I love him?

i can understand you wanting him to feel some guilt, he hurt you beyond all measure, you have never felt this kind of pain before, it almost feels like a physical pain, and it feels like that because you truly loved this man with your heart and soul...you have children with this man, you invested everything you are into the relationship and that is also why you still love him, that does not die away with this, it just means it really really hurts beyond reason...and you need to do what i am currently working on, and that is realizing that you really didn't love the "man" but who you thought he was, because if he were completely honest with you from the getgo, and you knew all you know now about the kind of person he is you would never have fallen for him in the first place...you are hopelessly in love with the man you believed him to be and the fact that you still see shades of that man does not help...

for me i really like pfm most of the time, which is part of my dilemma...when i like him it is hard to separate the man i thought he was with the man i now know he was....and is...for as much as he has changed he is still very much a liar...that has not changed...all of pfm's initial responses to life problems are that of the man i now know he is, and i see that clearly...the lying is something he has done all of his life, it is compulsive...the way he learned to manipulate...again something he has done all his life...

wow in the process of typing this out i had a flashback, my itial thoughts and impressions of him were dead on and i second guessed them when he actually asked me out....we both worked in a hospital when we met, and my first impression of him was that he was a player, that he thought who the hell he was, that there was this "air" about him.....all that was just upon seeing him, without any words...then i had thought he would ask me out and i had planned on shutting it down before it ever got started but then he called and he stuttered over half his words, and the old me the one who could never say no and outright reject someone came out and said yes....wow, my first impression was dead on...need to really learn to trust that one....but then again i have made freinds with people who did give me the wrong first impression...and they ended up being completely opposite from what i intially thought...unless it is something for me to pay attention to with just men...maybe i got some "man radar"...now that would be cool....sorry people needed to just keep going with my thought process and brought all of you along for the ride...ok back to business now....

anyways honest, yes with the 180, and yes with the being honest...but only when he asks...do not give him anything without him asking..he will take it not as you will be giving it...so..its 'he dont ask you don't tell'..

ukgirl:

But, as I say, if they want to get together again, how would I ever know? You know, he even used to spray his used shirts with deodorant before putting them back in his bag – just in case they smelled of her perfume. He really had thought of everything.

you right you may never know, that being said you have decided to stay in this marriage and you have made the choice to try and make it work...worrying over what you not only not have any control over or something that may never happen though...is not serving any purpose...and yes i know it is so much easier said then done....but i believe you can make a conscience choice to stop the thought when they arise, when the thoughts are there you need to find something to distract them from you, and i say get a sitter, for at least a few of the days whenever he is gone and drop in on him...when you repeatedly drop in on him and see that there is nothing to see some if not all of your fears could be alleviated....embrace your "now" .......

tryn:

I wanted that pain. I said nothing. She could tell something was not right and stopped, but I said I was all right. I wanted it to hurt worse.. I wanted that pain! Masochism! yep... I understand it now

no words...


dip:

Were you jealous that tryn got to ask all those Qs before you did? You ar still the queen of questions. Tryn is the king though.

i am honored to share the throne..

and i echo honest :

Dip: From what I can see from your posts, You seemed to have an interruption in your healing process because of your wife's breakdown. You needed healing and then had to put your needs aside to help her heal herself.
I think it's normal that these buried feelings are coming to the surface now. It may help to talk to someone about these buried feelings and see which ones may really be needed to be addressed with your wife. Some of them you may be able to let go, others, you may need to talk to her about.
I suggest that some day you and she sit down and you just let her know that there are some things that you still need to know. You are not attacking her, and will not blame her, but it's eating at you. Hopefully she will see that she is helping you heal, and that you are not bringing up "old" stuff to blame her with.

i think she said it very well...


allgood:

.

I said horrible things. I'm pissed at myself.
But, wh is taking it in stride and when I called to tell him that I was sorry about that (said it last night too) and told him I appreciate it that he keeps trying even though its so hard he told me that he wants to be with me, so he doesn't have a choice. It was meant in a good, reassuring way.

this is a post that shows that you have an amazing capacity to see beyond your pain, and this is really really good for you and for your ws....and his reaction to you was a good one.....

i think that book will help you with your perspective and in general....


(((tribe)))


i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
forgivenotforget
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Default  Posted: 10:38 AM, March 31st (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VxcLlQEkxxE
I don't know why all of this discussion made me think of this but I wanted to post this song.
About 2 months before my first d-day, I was trying to find a song for my H and I to dance to at our D's wedding. I found this and fell in love with the words and thought it was so perfect for us. When my H came home that night I played it for him and we danced to it and cried and agreed that this was the perfect song for us to dance to. I felt so much love and belief that my M was so very special and I was so happy that my H and I would grow old together.
D-day shattered all of my beliefs.
It's hard to give up the fantasy. It's so painful to see that the feelings and beliefs that you had about your relationship were one-sided. The grief that follows is so overwhelming at times and there is so much uncertainty about whether or not your M will survive another day let alone years.
As I'm sure you figured out, we never did dance to that song.
Today, 4 years out, I am in a much better place but there is still this "yearning" for what could have been if my H had never chosen to go down the LTA path.
I think in order to move forward we have to let go of that dream of what could have been. We have to look at our M for what it is and decide if we can begin anew. We can't look back. We can only look ahead with eyes wide open.


D-day - 12/23/05 LTA - 8 years.
"Love's a matter of trust and I just want to believe in us." M McBride

Posts: 1901 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: A tunnel where I'm beginning to see the light
old dipstick
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Default  Posted: 12:34 PM, March 31st (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

tryn.

Healing from a death and from the A is quite similar. I used those methods to handle my situation. Your charts about greiving are good ones. In my life I have lost several close friends and relatives. 3 to heart attacks, 1 accidental shooting, 1 plane crash, 1 hit by a DWI, 1 crashed while DWI, and one accidental drowning. 2 of those were my best friends. While getting over those deaths, one thing that was not in the way, is the fact that these people did not betray me. Another fact is that there is very little mystery involved. The how and why is right there. I think getting over the A is made more complicated by the mystery and betrayal factor. I think that is why so many BSs want to know details. It can give a certain closure. BTW, I am sure that people who lose a loved one to sucicde or have someone disappear and never be found are in the very hard to heal category. I can't imagine dealing with that.

You asked who is my W now? Actually she has changed very little from her A days. She did not need to change much. She always took care of me in all ways to the best of her abilities. I was spoiled. She was/is spoiled too. I'm very sure she does not have a boyfriend and of course she has a different job. Her personality disorder issues are a problem at times. Her big blow up that started the incident that started this discussion, was only because I disagreed with her about a sort of small matter. I would like to get her into IC to deal with that problem way more than dealing with any of the A related things.

Last Fri she got mad wanted me out of the house and to be left alone. While I was in my garage minding my own business and letting her have some space, she stormed in. She was pissed because she was alone in the house and that I need to come and be with her. This is a extreme example of boarderline disorder behavior. Some refer to this as "I hate you, don't leave me" behavior. Her shit fit that night is the worst I have seen for years.

We just got word Monday that a close relative of hers is very sick and probably may not live a week or two, so I do not see this as a good time to pursue any of this with her.

I am going to go back and talk to the C. I know another psychologist and he is pretty crazy. He is as carefree as a 16 year old!

UKgirl.

That list of A instruction is interesting. My W violated several of those rules and I still did not catch on. Like your situation, her being gone and me being away so much makes some of those rules moot.

It is funny how I found this site. I had no idea something like this existed so I never thought to google. I was watching a news program when they had a few experts discussing infidelity and mentioned a site called Truth about Deception. That site had a link to SI so here I am.

Thank you for your encouragement about these matters. I don't know if she has the tools to handle much discussion about this. This is hard to explain to someone who has not dealt with this. We BSs have the same problem if we tried to explain the total pain of betrayal to a non BS. Google boarderline personality disorder to get a good explaination of this if you are curious about it.

The problem with approaching her about this is that bpds will often see things like that as a attack. She for sure does see any talk of the A as a attack.

OM#2 used to be in sales.

Honest.

Thank you. If you have read the above paragraph about my W you see why talking to her is going to be a problem.

miracle.

Sharing the throne? How sweet!
How is the tummy? I hope it is still flat.

Hugs to the tribe.


Her WW 60
Me BH 60
M 36 yr
D-day#1 fall of 76 OM#1 2NS
D-day#2 summer of 89 OM#2 LTA 8 yrs OM#3 Short Term A


Posts: 751 | Registered: Sep 2009
Allgoodnamesgone
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Default  Posted: 12:56 PM, March 31st (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thought I'd chime in .

Tryn:
thanks for the charts - I like to be reminded that I'm at the worst part of this & it can only go up from here.

ForgivenotForget: I feel the same way. Even though I was unhappy with our marriage (really just the last year prior to DDay) before discovering the A, I still mourn the loss of what it was & what I thought it could be. I thought we were in a bad place, but we would work through it. Now, I will never look at my husband the same way again & he knows that. (In fact, he's the one who mentioned it to me.)
Dip: I really dont know what to say - I don't know how you've gotten to this point with so many unanswered questions - I would've went crazy!
As for me, I just got tested for stds which really pisses me off. I've had 1 partner my entire life & I now share ow's sexual history. What annoys me further is my h's general belief that there's no reason to be concerened. (She told him she was tested & that seems to be good enough for him.) I just find myself getting really mad that he let his ---- do his thinking for him and put his health, my health & our unborn child's health on the line without a second thought.


Me- BS
DDay- 8/26/09
Separated after failed R effort.

Posts: 2165 | Registered: Nov 2009
forgivenotforget
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Default  Posted: 5:07 PM, March 31st (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

OldDip - I'm so sorry that your situation is so complicated. It seems that you have often had to put the demands of your W's disorder and now her family member's imminent death ahead of your own needs. You must be a very strong person to be able to do this and very selfless and loving too.
If it's ok to ask, is your W taking meds for this and how long ago was she diagnosed? Does she accept her diagnosis? Our MC strongly felt that my H suffered from Asperger's Syndrome but told me he doubted my H would ever accept that diagnosis so we decided that it would be best for me to go to C'ing as needed to deal with the difficulties associated with the disorder.
I am with all the others who feel that C'ing for you would be a wonderful means of support and will help you not to take your W's behavior as a personal attack on you but a symptom of her disease.
From the beginning my H has always said that he didn't need C'ing but felt it might be very good for me to go. This seems very typical of people with personality disorders. They're not the problem. Must be us!
I think when we can take a step back and be analytical, it helps to keep our defenses and anger in control. One of the major criteria in diagnosing Asperger's is a lack of empathy. I used to get so frustrated by my H's lack of emotion, especially when something painful was going on in my life. (Sidebar here - I had a miscarriage and my H called his mother over to be with me because he had to go to the office - I was to call when it was time to go to the hospital.)
He showed no concern at all and that hurt me so badly. Now, I don't interpret his lack of emotion and empathy as a reflection of his love for me but as a symptom of his disease, KWIM ?????
Sounds like you might be doing the same. I hope so.
UKG - I loved that list and my H failed on so many points. And still I was blind.
I really understand about you really NOT wanting to know all the details

Honest - In the beginning I asked repeatedly for details and slowly (actually I had 3 d-days) over time I heard more and more of the sordid truth. On our 3rd d-day I said ENOUGH! No more! I know all I want or ever need to know in order to make my decision. I hope I've never suggested that we don't deserve to get our questions answered. I certainly never meant that. But I do believe there comes a time when too many details create more problems than they solve. For me, not knowing the details of their sexual activity is one area I needed to avoid. It is hard enough (no pun intended ) to resume sex with our FWS's let alone having mind games about their activities wreaking havoc on us when we try to reconnect.
Btw Honest, your advice to OldDip was terrific. As a matter of fact, I thought your entire post was great.
Hugs to the tribe.


D-day - 12/23/05 LTA - 8 years.
"Love's a matter of trust and I just want to believe in us." M McBride

Posts: 1901 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: A tunnel where I'm beginning to see the light
booger bear
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Content  Posted: 6:08 PM, March 31st (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

What a great day at school today .... I had so much fun !!!! Very emotional day tho : ( I loved my classes today and my teachers and the pot luck was awesome ... today was just great : ) ..... happy birthday to the birthday girls .... : )

My last class was about death & dying ... and while my instructor was amazing teaching it ... It brought up a lot of emotion about when I lost the baby .... and then we touched on the ethical side of it and teacher said if you got a divorce and the reason you got a divorce was because of another women and she winds up being your patient how would ... See Moreyou handle it ??? And I started laughing at the irony .... but really I was soooo angry and sad ..... ugh ..... hate my life, but love school, sooooo yeah !!!!!

It was pretty emotional today talking about my baby ... instructor asked us if we had ever expirenced a death of a close family member ... and my baby is the only one ... and talking about it and crying in front of these people I have only known for a few weeks was very scary ... but the feeling in the room was comforting and welcoming which was nice ...

Then she went on to say that something you would never say to someone is don't worry you can have another one someday ... I almost had to leave the room then ... because of my infertility issues that may have been my one and only chance to have my own baby ...

anyway it was just a very great awesome day in school ... at the same time it was soooooo emotional ... and my babies due date just passed 3-23-04 so I am still kinda decompressing from that and this day just took me by surprise ...

and I really LOL'ed when she started talking bout having to care for your OW if she came in your work and was your patient ... I LOL'ed at the irony of her saying that ... she has no idea bout this sitch or my baby ... she is just teaching ...

but OMG what a day !!!!

I would hope and I plan to try and be professional and give OW the care I would my own mother ... maybe not as cheery ... but the same standard of care for her as my own mom ... OW has to small boys and it would break my heart if something I did or didn't do caused her death ... not that I would murder her ... but maybe I forget she wants pain meds ... and the stress of the pain causes her to stroke out ... well I did not intend for that ... just wanted her to have pain for a few extra minutes ... KWIM ??? how heart broke I would be to have to look in her boys eyes and see their grief ... I couldn't live with myself ...

Hope that makes sense ... what I said that is why I am in OK and not in CO ... I removed myself from having that possibility ... and when I go back to CO I will work for DOC or in a FED pen and also remove myself from that possibility ...

sooooooo sorry I rambled on long enough ... sheesh Jen ...


I am fiercely independent and I won’t apologize for it. I'd rather be single than settled.

Posts: 18711 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Here, but not there ...
iwantamiracle
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Default  Posted: 9:48 PM, March 31st (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

booger: what a day is right...you had so many highs and lows...a new rollercoaster of sorts...

i am sorry for the anniversary of your baby due date, we are here if you need or want to talk about it...

your teacher im sorry should know better especially if she is in the medical field,...some people just don't think, they mean well but they don't think

((booger))

fnf:

Sidebar here - I had a miscarriage and my H called his mother over to be with me because he had to go to the office - I was to call when it was time to go to the hospital.)
He showed no concern at all and that hurt me so badly.

first i am also sorry for this loss....then do you think by calling his mother he thought he was showing concern and doing right?...


i did not go listen to the song, i do not think i could handle it right now, i seem to be emotionally on a bit of a cliff, i am hangin on, and i am making sure i don't jump...i never heard of parents having a song at a child's wedding to dance with....the daughter with the dad and the son with the mom, but never the parents...i am sure it would have been really sweet if he didn't eff up...now it is bittersweet instead..


dip:

i echo fnf:

It seems that you have often had to put the demands of your W's disorder and now her family member's imminent death ahead of your own needs. You must be a very strong person to be able to do this and very selfless and loving too.


allgood:

As for me, I just got tested for stds which really pisses me off. I've had 1 partner my entire life & I now share ow's sexual history. What annoys me further is my h's general belief that there's no reason to be concerened. (She told him she was tested & that seems to be good enough for him.) I just find myself getting really mad that he let his ---- do his thinking for him and put his health, my health & our unborn child's health on the line without a second thought.

i think we all understand this one...it sucks that we have to now do this...praying for negative results...and make sure you are tested for everything there is...and then repeat in 6 months..and if you are still having sex with your husband he needs to do the same...now and again in 6 months..


(((tribe)))


i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

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