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User Topic: Long Term Affair X V I I
nofun
♀ Member
Member # 24546
Default  Posted: 9:33 PM, April 14th (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Allgood I wish I did live closer. We could probably both use a drink and compare notes. It sucks to have nobody to talk to. I can't talk to my kids, I think it hurts them too much.
And Yes, my kids know. They are disgusted with their father. My 31 year old cries if I mention it, and she doesn't want the family dynamics to change. But she understands if I need to bail.

My 27 yr old daughter wrote a 3 page letter to her dad and it wasn't nice she didn't hold anything back. She told him that she doesn't hate him but hates what he did to his family.

My son told me he loves his father because he's his father but he thinks he's nothing but an asshole. I haven't told the kids I was leaving yet. I haven't told anyone.

NJgirl - I still don't have the whole story and I think that is why I am having such a hard time. I feel like I'm left in the dark. Like he is still trying to protect OW. 12 years of secrets, lies, betrayals and he is still lying about everything I ask him. My gut is telling me I don't have the truth. I feel there were more than one A. I think he cheated on the OW too.

So maybe a separation will wake him up? Or maybe it will bring me some peace?

I am going to the MC on Monday because he wants to see me alone. I want to see what he says and then I think I'm done with him too. I think he had an affair also.

I hope you have a wonderful time in Hawaii. You deserve it.


BS (me) 56
WH 61
M 36 yrs
OW - 55 - Howdy Doody Look Alike
3 Awesome Adult C
DD 6/7/09
LTA 12 years.
Confused: D or R???

Posts: 987 | Registered: Jun 2009
Allgoodnamesgone
♀ Member
Member # 26157
Default  Posted: 6:30 AM, April 15th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Fun - you are probably right. You don't know everything. I've come to that conclusion myself - it's hard not to come to that conclusion with TT & "I don't remember", "I don't know" kind of answers. (Plus he refused to take a poly for me).
But, honestly, I don't think I want to know anymore, because the details are just killing me. I think at this point the only things I would want to know is if he's broken nc & whether he's had prior affairs.
Tryn posted something a while back, maybe he could lead you to the link - anyway - it's the only article that my h actually read start to fininsh & did seem to be helpful. Maybe that would help him understand why you need to know the answers to some of your questions. I know my h really didn't understand some things I was going through til he read it (tho I seriously dont understand why not). He even said now he knows I'm not just going crazy. (Lol - I swear you just cant make this stuff up). Anyway - thinking of you.

And Miracle - I was thinking of you yesterday - a lot of tongue biting going on in my house.

And thank you all for urging me to tell my H to come home between shifts. I did tell him I worry when he has so much time between shifts, especially since his need to do ot to the extent he is now is a vast departure from pre-DDay. So, he said he would come home in between.

Fun - like NJgirl said - I try to think of the stuff he is doing right - is your h doing anything right? (I know between the 2 of us they are not doing enough - but is he making an effort at all?)
Peace all.

[This message edited by Allgoodnamesgone at 6:32 AM, April 15th (Thursday)]


Me- BS
DDay- 8/26/09
Separated after failed R effort.

Posts: 2165 | Registered: Nov 2009
Allgoodnamesgone
♀ Member
Member # 26157
Default  Posted: 6:54 AM, April 15th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Fun - here is the post I was talking about (I think - God knows my tech skills are not the best:
http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=322206&HL=22698

I actually "enjoyed" the read myself - made me feel more normal.


Me- BS
DDay- 8/26/09
Separated after failed R effort.

Posts: 2165 | Registered: Nov 2009
iwantamiracle
♀ Member
Member # 22812
Default  Posted: 10:28 AM, April 15th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

nofun:

So maybe a separation will wake him up? Or maybe it will bring me some peace?


do you want him to wake up?...if you could have anything from him and for yourself where he is concerned, what would that be?


I'm not sure why my H shuts down. I can only guess and here a few reasons.
1. He thinks he's punishing me.
2. He is a conflict avoider (that I know for sure, mc said it)
3. He doesn't know what to say.

it could be all the above or it could be fear...he is caught between a rock and a hard place and has proven by his choice to have a lta that he doesn't know how to make the best choices....so he is choosing to react with a fear based action instead of one based in love...the point is you really don't know why he reacts the way he does, you only know how it makes you feel......and it does not make you feel anything positive...

just another thought...what if you calmly and rationally told him how it makes you feel when he shuts down and then end the conversation so that it cannot go anyplace else...plant that seed and see if it grows....that is of course if you are still willing to try, i think you seem resigned to leave, i also think you believe that if you leave it will bring you peace...and on some level it will, after all you will have a definitive on your marriage then...but is it what you really want...?

allgood

And Miracle - I was thinking of you yesterday - a lot of tongue biting going on in my house.

i so so so understand.. ....

I did tell him I worry when he has so much time between shifts, especially since his need to do ot to the extent he is now is a vast departure from pre-DDay. So, he said he would come home in between.

that is a really really really big Y A Y...i am so proud of you for speaking up for YOU...and this must become a habit...a very good necessary habit, and yay for mr allgood...chalk that one up on the right column..

njgal: how cool, a vacation in hawaii...he is doing lots of right and i am so happy for you....

When I start thinking about the A I have to remind myself of all of the kind, loving things he has been doing for me...and the fact that he never did any of these things for the OW

and this is amazing that you do this for yourself...because it is you that you do this for...he choosing to love you and you are accepting it....and choosing to love him in return...not always easy, but completely rewarding...

it amazes me how choosing love is not always the easy thing to do, it is such a positive in all aspects...but over and over again so many humans choose fear and all that goes with that fear....just a thought...

dip:

Of course you were missed at the mall. Why did this surprise you?

things like this always surprise me...must be a deep buried issue
...


Good luck at the C. You are correct, it should be interesting.

well it def was interesting...first i have to give manchild some credit, the boy speaks beautifully...as i was listening him convey his issues i was stuck between being proud mom and the mom who wants to bop him... ..

he went round and round with the c, kept up with insisting the c needed to be my judge and h=jury so to speak, because he really wants to "fix me"...didn't wash with the c, the c was great with him, told him he was intelligent and well spoken which made him so happy...manchild has deep self-esteem issues just like his dad...i don't think we made too much headway, but i do think we moved forward about an inch or so, which should last at least til the weekend....

although just before we went to c i also found out that manchild has also been calling those lovely 1-800 numbers for phone sex, he has no credit card so the kid seems to be getting off on the first minute or so of the "invite" for more... ...

he continues to break all the rules...and then wonders why he is the one who is always punished...he sometimes has these major dillusions...he and pfm are cut from the same cloth....the cloth that is stamped with the words

"how stupid could i be today?"

m3:

baby is well! vaery cute and starting to be more solid and less bird-like :)

i have to admit when i read this i pictured such a scrawny little baby..kind of like my youngest son who i do call scrawny boy...and i cracked a smile...and just to let you know how scrawny my son is...all he needs is a distended stomach and he could be on those sad commercials for the starving kids in africa...you could seriously count every rib from a distance..and he just shot up some, so he looks even more scrawny then usual...

and i am glad to hear that you and the baby are doing well....how are the rest of your kids with her?


((((tribe))))

ukgirl: have not heard from you dear heart...are you o.k?


i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
forgivenotforget
♀ Member
Member # 11053
Default  Posted: 10:42 AM, April 15th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

i have to say there are more days right now where all i want to do is run away from home

Miracle, sorry that you are having a tough time with your son right now. The teen years can be so challenging. I have 3 children and it was my middle child that really gave me a tough time. If it's any consolation, today some 15 years later, she is my biggest support and we have a wonderful relationship. (Btw, it didnt' take 15 years for her to turn around - only about 5 but the point is she did and today we have a beautiful relationship.) I never would have believed it possible back then. So, hang in there and get the help you need to get through this period. We went to C'ing for about 3 or 4 years and it paid off BIG TIME!!! It will for you too.
Now, as to wanting to get away. I'll bet everyone of us here has felt that way, I know I have and actually I have done it. Short-term mind you, like 10 days once and 5 and 7 at other times and it was a wonderful break. It gave me the strength to continue. I don't know if this is possible for you (how old are your kids?) but if it is possible to do it, even for just 2 or 3 days on your own, I think it could work wonders. I've never done a retreat but that might be a place to look. I have actually looked into a few but have always chosen to spend my "free" time with my son. He has a wonderful, comforting nature and I always find peace when I am with him.
Nofun - I am sorry to hear about your situation. I do hope your MC can give you some hope for your M but it sounds like you are putting your things in order for yourself and I am glad you have gotten yourself into a good position if this is the route you do decide to take.
I too have 3 adult children who all know our circumstances and they have been so instrumental in getting my H to accept responsibility for his LTA. Our FWS's try to snow us but when they have to admit what they have done to their children, it really snaps them out of their fog. What was your H's reaction to your children when he had to admit his A to them? Was your DD's letter to him at all effective? It sounds like he hasn't quite come out of his fog and accepted responsibility for his A but maybe I'm reading this wrong.
Sometimes I do think they need something drastic before they are willing to change. Perhaps a temporary separation will be the thing that works for your M just as it did for NJgal.
Two things worked for my H. The first was my son telling him he was going to be a very lonely man - because he would lose all of us if he didn't end the relationship.
I had my H tell all 3 of our children one week after d-day and each of them really let him know how they felt and how brokenhearted they were. It killed him and he actually collapsed the next day. Then I served him with a property settlement to see what he would lose financially. That finished the job! I really can't believe how shocked they are to discover that there are consequences to their betrayal. How dense can they be!
Anyway, please keep posting if you need support and hugs. You will get plenty of good advice and lots of care and concern.
Allgood - I tried to get to the link you posted but I'm having trouble. I even typed it out and still had trouble. Can you give me the topic so that I can read it. It sounds like a wonderful post.
Hugs to all!

[This message edited by forgivenotforget at 10:49 AM, April 15th (Thursday)]


D-day - 12/23/05 LTA - 8 years.
"Love's a matter of trust and I just want to believe in us." M McBride

Posts: 1901 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: A tunnel where I'm beginning to see the light
forgivenotforget
♀ Member
Member # 11053
Default  Posted: 10:57 AM, April 15th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

baby is well! vaery cute and starting to be more solid and less bird-like :)

I had a good laugh too when I read this. Personally, I've had big babies. My son was close to eleven lbs. at birth. He looked more like a minature sumo wrestler than a bird but was, and still is, a real sweetheart. Enjoy these times, they go by much too quickly.


D-day - 12/23/05 LTA - 8 years.
"Love's a matter of trust and I just want to believe in us." M McBride

Posts: 1901 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: A tunnel where I'm beginning to see the light
Allgoodnamesgone
♀ Member
Member # 26157
Default  Posted: 10:59 AM, April 15th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hufi-Pufi posted this in Wayward Side: he said:

I found this posted in http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=322206&HL=22698 where it had been put by Trynhard, member# 22698 who reposted it there on Oct. 22 09 but could not recall where they had gotten it. If anyone knows who the author is, please let us know, so we can at least give them copyright acknowledgement.

Understanding Your Betrayed Spouse - A quick reference manual for unfaithful partners.

The Sea of Stress is Difficult to Understand.

YOU BETRAYED YOUR PARTNER. NOW COMES THE FALLOUT.

They discovered your adultery. You ended the affair and promised you’ll never cheat again. But the stress from their emotional devastation lingers. And you don’t see much change – at least, not as much positive change as you expected. Many times, any visible changes are for the worse. You observe them bouncing back and forth like a ping-pong ball, moment to moment, from one emotion to the next. They’re unpredictable. There’s no discernable pattern. Their nerves are frayed. They can’t sleep. They can’t eat. Their thoughts are obsessive. Intrusive visions and flashbacks assault them without warning. They cry at the drop of a hat. They feel empty, used up, exhausted. The stress consumes their energy and their life until they feel like there’s nothing left. It’s terrible.

It’s an ordeal for you to witness their tortured, depressed and angry states, and what’s worse; you don’t know what to do. You’re not alone. Unfaithful spouses never dream they’ll get busted, so when confronted with their adultery they’re always caught by surprise; first by their partners’ knowledge, then by their intense agony. Indeed, unfaithful partners never think about what they’ll face “after” until after. The fact is: Though they inflict it, adulterers are unprepared for the onslaught of their spouses’ overwhelming emotional distress. Is this real? Is this permanent?

As you watch them sink lower and lower, wallowing in an emotional abyss, you wonder where the bottom is, when they will hit it, and if they will ever ascend from it and return to “normal.” You ask yourself, “Is this real?” Then you ask, “Will this ever end?”

The simple answers are: Yes, it is real. And, yes, it will end. But recovery takes a long time, often years, and much depends on you. Can you be remorseful, apologetic, loving, patient, empathetic and soothing over an extended period of time? Can you commit to openness and honesty at all times – and forevermore being faithful to your spouse?

Be honest with yourself: If you can’t or don’t want to get over your affair, if you don’t feel shame and remorse, and if you can’t generously provide appropriate support to your spouse, then now is the time to consider ending your marriage and spare your marital partner further pain. (If this is the case, you need not read any further.)

But if you have put the affair permanently behind you, if you feel and can freely express your remorse and shame for your unfaithfulness, and if you can commit to supporting your spouse through their excruciating anguish, then you have an excellent chance of rebuilding from this disaster you’ve wrought to a happy, satisfying, caring and loving marriage. The following is intended to help you help your partner, and in turn yourself, through this horrible time and jumpstart your journey to recovery.

So, take a couple of deep breaths… and let’s start with three foundational facts:

What you’re seeing in your spouse is a normal reaction to a life-changing event.

Your spouse needs to grieve for as long as it takes in order to recover and heal.

You can be a positive influence on their recovery.

Now, go back and reread them several times. Let them really sink in. When you can repeat them without looking, continue.

Your first mission is to learn.

Learning about your partner’s myriad reactions to your betrayal allows you to recognize, understand and properly respond to them as they occur. Doing so will help you get through
this horrible initial stage, which can last a long time.
Below you’ll find a little of what your spouse is probably experiencing. They may shift from one reaction to another, or they could experience multiple reactions concurrently. And don’t be surprised if they return to previous states many times. Where applicable, we’ve added some tips to help you to assist your partner through this. In some cases, however, there may be little for you to do except to simply “be there.”

Most importantly, remember at all times: Your infidelity has traumatized your spouse. Act accordingly.

SECTION 1 - THE WILD PATCHWORK OF EMOTIONS

DISBELIEF: They expect to wake up any minute from this nightmare. It can’t be true. They don’t believe it. This is natural. They trusted you and don’t want to believe you did what you did. It is common for this to occur in the very first moments of discovery. (Note: If some time elapsed between the discovery of your affair and the confrontation, you may have missed this when it happened, but it is also possible for your spouse to return to disbelief.)

SHOCK: They are numb and often seem dazed. Their emotions are frozen. Their senses are dulled. They go through the motions mechanically, robotically, but can’t seem to apply sufficient concentration to their day-to-day lives.

REALITY: “Oh my God. It really happened.” They feel they’re getting worse. Actually, reality has just set in. It’s as if a ton of bricks just fell on them and they’re buried beneath them. They don’t know where to turn, or can’t. Don’t discount the likelihood that they feel shamed by your infidelity. So, they may be reluctant to seek support from friends and family. Be available to them for emotional support and encourage them to talk freely with anyone they choose. Suggest therapy as a means to help them through their trauma, but never accuse them of “being irrational” or “acting crazy.” Be supportive and encouraging. Commend them for seeking help.

CONFUSION: They’re disoriented. They can’t think straight. They become impatient, disorganized and forgetful. More frequently than usual they go to a room to retrieve something, but once they get there they can’t remember what it was. This is very upsetting to them. Bear with them. Be gentle and be helpful. Help them find their misplaced purse or locate their lost keys. Know that they will eventually come out of the fog. Also be aware that their confusion, as with other states listed here, may be set off or magnified by certain “triggers.” (Note: Read more about “triggers” below.)

PHYSICAL SYMPTOMS: They may sleep or eat too little – or too much. They may suffer physical aches and pains, numbness or weakness. They may feel unusually tense and develop headaches, abnormal tics, twitching or shaking. They may feel sick to their stomach and vomit, or their digestive system may react with constipation or diarrhea. Weight loss is common. Usually the symptoms fade gradually. If these symptoms persist, make sure they check with a doctor to rule out other causes. Encourage them to eat well and to exercise – but don’t nag. You might instead take control of their diet by preparing healthy, well balanced meals. If you don’t cook, take them to restaurants where you know they serve nourishing food and, if necessary, order for them. If they’re not exercising, initiate taking long walks together. It’s a good way to ease them into a healthy exercise regimen, which is always a good stress reliever, and will provide opportunity for you to begin constructively re-establishing your “couplehood.”

CRYING: Deep emotions suddenly well up, seeking release as crying, uncontrollable sobbing and even screaming out loud. Allow them their time for tears. They can help. So can you. When they cry, give them your shoulder. Hug them. Help them through it by gently encouraging them, to “get it all out.” Be certain to verbalize your remorse for causing their pain. They need to hear this from you. (Note: Right now, genuine, complete and repeated apologies are the best “general use” tool you have in your repair kit. That is why you’ll see many more references below. Read “Apologize” in Section 2.)

SELF-CONTROL: They control their emotions to fulfill their responsibilities, or to simply rest from the pain. Self-control can shape and give rhythm to their grieving, but be on the lookout for constant and rigid self-control. It can block healing. They need to reduce their emotional pressure to regain equilibrium. Allow them to vent when it happens. Be aware: Too much self-control means they are storing up much anger and will release it powerfully, like floodwaters breaking through a dam. So don’t be alarmed if they suddenly lash out at you, your affair partner, or even themselves. Understand that the release of anger is necessary to heal. Though it may not feel this way to you when it happens, it’s beneficial.

NEED TO KNOW: They will ask lots of questions. Their curiosity may be insatiable or it may be limited. Different people have different needs and tolerances for information, but they need information to process their trauma, move through it, and move past it.

Let them set the agenda. Whenever they ask a question, whatever they ask, answer honestly and sufficiently. Refusing to answer gives the appearance that you’re still keeping them in the dark, that you still have something to hide. Do not hold anything back. If they discover later that you omitted or hid details, or if the facts they discover don’t match the story you tell, they’ll feel betrayed once again. Follow the delivery of each new piece of hurtful information with an apology, and soothe them with another promise that you’ll never again be unfaithful.

WHY: They ask, “Why did you do this?” They may or may not expect an answer, but they ask repeatedly. If they do want an answer, provide it – and answer honestly. Even if the question is rhetorical, be aware that the question itself, rhetorical or not, is a cry of pain. And each time they feel pain, it should be answered with another apology. (I can’t stress enough how important this is.) Be aware: Even if they are not verbalizing this to you, they are still silently asking the question “Why?” over and over and over again.

INJUSTICE: They feel it’s all so unfair. You invited danger, you took the risk, but they suffered injury. They want justice and begin to think like a vigilante. They may harbour a secret desire to do harm to you or your affair partner. They may want to get even by having a “revenge affair.”
Understand that the aftermath of your unfaithfulness is an agony you have thrust upon them. Meanwhile, despite your betrayal and deceit, and the shame you feel, you and your affair partner may retain fond or even loving memories of your affair. One of my patients described her feelings of injustice this way: “I feel like a rape victim watching helplessly as the jury returns a ‘not guilty’ verdict. Then, the assailant looks at me, points his finger at me and laughs all the way out of the courtroom. How can this possibly happen?”

A sad truth of infidelity is: It is unfair. Of course, there is no “justice” that can come from this. Betrayed spouses generally settle into this realization on their own, but they need to know that you understand how this plagues them. (Note: Read “Share your feelings of guilt and shame” in Section 2. It explains the best way to help them through their sense of injustice.)

INADEQUACY: Their self esteem is shattered. They feel belittled, insignificant, and often even unlovable. Just as you would crumple a piece of scrap paper and toss it in the garbage without a second thought, they feel you crushed them, discarded them, and didn’t give them a second thought, either. So, they question their own value. They wonder if you truly love them – or if anyone could. They need to know why you now choose them over your affair partner, even if they don’t ask. Make your case convincingly. Be generous, but be genuine. They’ll know if you aren’t, and false flattery for the purpose of mere appeasement will only hurt them more.

REPEATING: Over and over again, they review the story, thinking the same thoughts. Do not attempt to stop them. Repeating helps them to absorb and process the painful reality. You can help them get through it by answering all their questions truthfully and filling in all the gaps for them. The more they know – the more they can repeat the complete story – the faster they process it, accept it and begin to heal. If the story remains incomplete or significant gaps are filled in later, they may have to start the process all over again.

IDEALIZING: Sometimes they remember only good memories, as if their time with you was perfect. They long to live in the past, before the affair came along and “messed it up.” Assure them that you, too, remember the good times, and want things to be good again. Remind them that you want an even better future, that you are willing to work at it, and, most importantly, that you want your future with them – and not your affair partner.

FRUSTRATION: Their past fulfillments are gone. They haven’t found new ones yet and don’t seem interested in finding any. They feel they’re not coping with grief “right” or they feel they should be healing faster. They don’t understand why the pain returns again and again. They wonder if they will ever recover and feel better. You can help them by verbalizing what they need to hear even if you don’t or can’t fully understand it yourself. Be empathetic and assure them that under the circumstances they’re doing okay. Remember that despite how much you have hurt them, you are still the one they chose as their life partner, for better or for worse. You may still be their closest confidante. As incongruous as it may seem, don’t be surprised if they choose to confide in you over others.

BITTERNESS: Feelings of resentment and hatred toward you and your paramour are to be expected. Don’t be surprised if they redirect much of the anger that’s really meant for you toward your paramour. This is natural. It’s actually a way of protecting their love for you during the early stages. By restricting their anger toward you, they allow it to be time-released, and only in smaller, more manageable amounts. Expect their anger to surface periodically, and give them plenty of time to work through it so they can eventually let go of it. Understand that until they’ve worked through and exhausted their anger, they cannot heal.

WAITING: The initial struggle is waning, but their zest for life has not returned. They are in limbo, they are exhausted and uncertain. Indeed, life seems flat and uninteresting. They are unenthused about socializing, perhaps reluctant, and they are unable to plan activities for themselves. Help them by finding ways to stimulate them. Plan activities for them around things that hold their interest and bring joy back into their life.

EMOTIONS IN CONFLICT: This is one of the most difficult manifestations because there is so much going on at the same time and their feelings do not always synchronize with reality. The most succinct description was provided by the late Shirley Glass, PhD: “One of the ironies of healing from infidelity is that the perpetrator must become the healer. This means that betrayed partners are vulnerable because the person they are most likely to turn to in times of trouble is precisely the source of their danger.” The inherent conflict for a betrayed spouse is obvious, but Dr. Glass also recognized how difficult this balancing act can be for a repentant adulterer: “On the other hand, [unfaithful] partners sometimes find it hard to stay engaged with their spouses when they know they are the source of such intense pain.” The key, of course, is to stay engaged nonetheless. Be supportive and remorseful, and above all… keep talking.

TRIGGERS: Particular dates, places, items and activities can bring back their pain as intensely as ever. It feels like they’re caught in a loop as they relive the trauma. It is emotionally debilitating.

Triggers can cause days and nights of depression, renew anger, and can spark and reignite nightmares, which may make them fear sleeping. Triggers can cause them to question if they will ever again experience life without the anguish. Get rid of all the reminders immediately: Gifts, letters, pictures, cards, emails, clothing… whatever your spouse associates with your affair. Do this with your spouse so they are not left wondering when those triggers may recur. Never cling to anything that bothers your partner. It leaves the impression that your keepsakes and mementos, or any reminders of your affair, are more important to you than they are.

Attend to your partner. Learn what dates, songs, places, etc., are triggers for your partner. Pay attention to your environment: If you hear or see something that you think might be a trigger, assume it is. Each occasion a trigger arises is an appropriate moment for you to communicate a clear and heartfelt message that you’re sorry you acted so selfishly and caused this recurring pain. So again, apologize and let them know how much you love them. The occurrence of a trigger is also a good opportunity to express that you choose them and not your affair partner, which is important for them to hear. If a trigger occurs in public, you can still wrap your arm around your spouse’s waist or shoulder, or simply squeeze their hand, but verbalize your apology as soon as you are alone again.

It is very important for you to understand and remember this… Triggers can remain active for their entire life. Don’t ever think or insist that enough time has passed that they should be “over it” because another sad truth of infidelity is: Your affair will remain a permanent memory for them, subject to involuntary recall at any time – even decades later. They will NEVER be “over it.” They simply learn to deal with it better as they heal, as you earn back their trust, and as you rebuild your relationship – over time.

SECTION 2 - WHAT ELSE CAN YOU DO TO EASE THEIR PAIN & RELIEVE THEIR STRESS?

Make certain you’ve killed the beast: Your affair must be over, in all respects, completely and forever. You cannot put your marriage in jeopardy ever again. Your spouse has given you a second chance that you probably don’t deserve. That may sound harsh, but think about it this way: Despite any marital problems the two of you experienced, you would certainly understand if they divorced you solely because of your adultery. So assume there will not be a third chance and behave accordingly.

This opportunity you have been bestowed is a monumental gift, particularly considering the anguish you caused them. Treat this gift, and your spouse, with care and due respect: No contact means NO CONTACT OF ANY KIND – EVER.

GET INTO THERAPY: Most attempts to heal and rebuild after infidelity will fail without the assistance of a qualified therapist. Make certain you both feel comfortable with the therapist. You must trust them and have faith in their methodology. Talk about it: If of you are uncomfortable with your therapist at any time, don’t delay – find another. And if need be, yet another. Then stick with it. Save particularly volatile topics for counselling sessions. Your therapist will provide a neutral place and safe means to discuss these subjects constructively. Every so often, think back to where you were two or three months earlier. Compare that to where you are now and determine if you’re making progress. Progress will be made slowly, not daily or even weekly, so do not perform daily or weekly evaluations. Make the comparative periods long enough to allow a “moderate-term” review rather than “short-term.” Expect setbacks or even restarts, and again… stick with it.

APOLOGIZE: Actually, that should read: “Apologize, apologize, apologize.” You cannot apologize too often, but you can apologize improperly. Apologize genuinely and fully. Betrayed spouses develop a finely calibrated “insincerity radar.” A partial or disingenuous apology will feel meaningless, condescending or even insulting, particularly during the months following discovery. Your spouse will feel better if you don’t merely say, “I’m sorry.” To a betrayed spouse that sounds and feels empty. Try to continue and complete the apology by saying everything that’s now salient to your partner: “I’m ashamed I cheated on you and I’m so very sorry. I know that my lying and deceiving you has hurt you enormously. I deeply want to earn back your trust – and I want so much for you to be able, some day, to forgive me.” As noted earlier, right now genuine, complete and repeated apologies are the best “general use” tool you have in your repair kit.

REALIZE YOUR PARTNER WANTS TO FEEL BETTER: There is so much they have to deal with – pain, anger, disappointment, confusion and despair. Their being, their world, is swirling in a black hole of negative feelings. It’s agonizing. They wish it would stop, but they feel powerless to make it go away, which worries them even more. Remember that they can’t help it: Just as they didn’t choose for this to happen, they don’t choose to feel this way. Beyond all the possible feelings described in the section above (and that list may be incomplete in your spouse’s case), even if they don’t understand them, they do recognize that changes are occurring in themselves – and they are frightened by them. As terrible as it is for you to see their ongoing nightmare, it is far worse to live in it. Periodically assure them that you know they will get better, that you are willing to do everything necessary for them to heal and to make your marriage work. Reassure them that you are with them for the duration – no matter how long it takes – and that you intend to spend the rest of your life with them.

HIDE NOTHING, OPEN EVERYTHING: While they’re greatly angered and hurt that you were emotionally and/or sexually involved with another person, they are even more devastated by your secret life, your lies and deception. They feel no trust in you right now – and they’re 100% justified. If ever there was someone in the world they felt they could trust, it was you – until now. Now, they have difficulty believing anything you say. They are driven to check up on everything. Let them. Better still, help them. Overload them with access. The era of “covering your tracks” must end and be supplanted by total and voluntary transparency.

You must dismantle and remove every vestige of secrecy. Offer your spouse the passwords to your email accounts – yes, even the secret one they still don’t know about. Let them bring in the mail. If you receive a letter, card or email from your paramour, let your spouse open it. If you receive a voice or text message on your cell phone, let them retrieve it and delete it. If your friends provided alibis for you, end those friendships. Do not change your phone bill to a less detailed version or delete your browser history. Provide your spouse with your credit card bills, bank account statements, cell phone bills and anything else you think they might wish to check. Immediately tell them if you hear from or accidentally run into your affair partner. Tell them where you are going, when you’ll be home, and be on time. If your plans change, notify them immediately.

The more willing you are to be transparent, the more honesty and openness they see and feel, the more “trust chits” you’ll earn. Replacing your previously secret life with complete openness is the fastest and most effective way to promote trust, even if it feels unfair or uncomfortable. Think of this as the “reverse image” of your affair: Your affair was about you selfishly making yourself feel good. Now, rebuilding trust is about selflessly making your partner feel safe with you – and you were certainly unfair to them. Keep in mind that eventually they will trust you again, but you must earn it and it will take time.

SPEND LOTS TIME WITH THEM: Assume that they want your company at all times. The more time you spend in their sight, the more they will feel a sense of safety, if only for that time. There may be times when you feel they’re a constant, perhaps even an annoying presence. Just remember that they need to be around you – more than ever. If they need time alone, they’ll let you know and you must respect that, too. Knowing where you are and who you are with reduces worry, but expect them to check up on you. Don’t take offence when this happens. Instead, welcome the opportunity: Think of each time – and each success – as receiving a check mark in the “Passed the Test” column. The more check marks you earn, the closer you are to being trusted again.

PHYSICAL CONTACT: They may or may not want to be sexual with you. If not, allow sufficient time for them to get comfortable with the idea of renewed intimacy and let them set the pace. But if so, don’t be discouraged if the sex is not optimum. They’re likely to be low on confidence and may feel self-conscious or inept. They may even act clumsily. This can be offset by lots of simple, soothing physical gestures such as hugging them, stroking them softly and providing kisses. You might try surprising them sexually. Try something new. Choose moments when they don’t expect it – it can feel fresh again. On the other hand, don’t be surprised if their sexual appetite and arousal is unusually heightened as some partners experience what’s called ‘Hysterical Bonding.’ Also be aware that during lovemaking they may suffer intrusive thoughts or mental images of you and your affair partner, so they may suddenly shut down or even burst into tears. Again, apologize for making them feel this way. Express that you choose them – and not your affair partner. Reassure them by emphasizing that they are the only one you truly want.

SHARE YOUR FEELINGS OF GUILT AND SHAME: If you exhibit no shame or guilt for hurting them, they’ll wonder if you’re truly capable of being sensitive, caring or even feeling. They may see you as callous and self-absorbed, and question if it’s really worth another try with you. But if you’re like most people who have badly hurt someone you truly love, then you certainly feel shame and guilt, though verbalizing it may be hard for you. Of course, some people do find it difficult to express these feelings, but try. You’ll find it provides a great sense of relief to share this with your partner. Moreover, do not fail to realize is how vitally important it is for your partner to hear it, to feel it, to see it in your eyes. It’s a building block in the reconstruction of trust and the repair of your marriage. Do not underestimate the power of satisfying their need to know that you are disappointed in yourself. Your opening up about this will help them feel secure again, help them to heal, and help you heal, too.

LET THEM KNOW YOU ARE HAPPY WITH YOUR CHOICE TO RECOMMIT: You probably think this is obvious, but to your betrayed partner, precious little is obvious anymore. They will wonder about this. Do not make them guess, and do not make them ask. Just tell them. If it doesn’t seem to come naturally at first, it may help if every now and then, you ask yourself, “If they had betrayed me this way, would I still be here?” (Most of us would answer, “No,” even if we can’t imagine being in that position.) When people give second chances to others, they really want to know that it’s meaningful to, and appreciated by, the recipient. So, express your thanks. Tell them how grateful you are for the opportunity to repair the damage you’ve done and rebuild your marriage. You’ll be surprised how much this simple, heartfelt act of gratitude will mean to them, and how it helps to re-establish the bond between you.

HERE’S A GREAT TIP: You will find it’s particularly meaningful to them when they’re obviously feeling low, but they’re locked in silence and aren’t expressing it to you. Just imagine… In their moments of unspoken loneliness or despair, you walk up to them, hug them and say, “I just want you to know how grateful I am that you’re giving me a second chance. Thank you so much. I love you more than ever for this. I’ve been feeling so ashamed of what I did and how much pain I caused you. I want you to know that I’ll never do anything to hurt you like this – ever again. I know I broke your heart and it torments me. I want you to know your heart is safe with me again.”

These are beautifully comforting words, particularly when they’re delivered at such a perfect
moment. You can memorize the quote, modify it, or use your own words, whatever is most
comfortable for you. The key is to include, in no particular order, all six of these components:

A statement of gratitude.

An expression of your love.

An acknowledgment of your spouse’s pain.

An admission that you caused their pain.

An expression of your sense of shame.

A promise that it will never happen again

Unfaithful spouses I’ve counselled often report that this most welcome surprise is the best thing they did to lift their partner’s spirits – as well as their own.

SECTION 3 - SO WHAT ARE THE NEXT STAGES, AFTER THEY WORK THROUGH ALL THEIR GRIEF, PAIN AND STRESS?

HOPE: They believe they will get better. They still have good days and bad days, but the good days out balance the bad. Sometimes they can work effectively, enjoy activities and really care
for others.

COMMITMENT: They know they have a choice. Life won’t be the same, but they decide to actively begin building a new life.

SEEKING: They take initiative, renewing their involvement with former friends and activities. They
begin exploring new involvements.

PEACE: They feel able to accept the affair and its repercussions, and face their own future.

LIFE OPENS UP: Life has value and meaning again. They can enjoy, appreciate, and anticipate events. They are willing to let the rest of their life be all it can be. They can more easily seek and find joy.

FORGIVENESS: While the memory will never leave them, the burden they’ve been carrying from your betrayal is lifted. Given what you have done, the pain it caused them and the anguish they lived through, this is the ultimate gift they can bestow. They give it not only to you, but to themselves. Be grateful for this gift – and cherish it always.

Rejoice in your renewed commitment to spend your lives together in happiness. Celebrate it together regularly!


Me- BS
DDay- 8/26/09
Separated after failed R effort.

Posts: 2165 | Registered: Nov 2009
forgivenotforget
♀ Member
Member # 11053
Default  Posted: 11:29 AM, April 15th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Allgood - what an amazing article. Thank you so much for posting it. So much of what is in there my H and I have experienced and fortunately he has done pretty well. I almost felt as if he had access to this article and used it as a guideline for himself.
I have now added a third absolute requirement for R.
1 - absolutely NC with the OW/OM.
2 - participate fully and consistently in R.
3 - read and re-read this article and follow the guidelines completely.
What great, amazing advice.
Thanks again!
ETA - The one point I often make to my H during my down days is the fact that his was an 8 year A. Recovery for LTA is so much more complicated. Think of the advice in this article which was given for all A's - STA's as well as LTA. I asked our MC how many cases he had in his practice of M's that were devastated by an 8 year LTA. You guessed it, NONE. We were the unfortunate exception. Those of us whose S's engaged in years and years of deceipt belong to a very exclusive club. Our S's MUST understand and acknowledge how much more difficult it is for us since our S's basically were living a double life. Every A brings enourmous pain to the BS and I'm not discounting anyone's pain but I do believe that the longer a spouse has engaged in an A the longer the healing process is bound to be.

[This message edited by forgivenotforget at 11:35 AM, April 15th (Thursday)]


D-day - 12/23/05 LTA - 8 years.
"Love's a matter of trust and I just want to believe in us." M McBride

Posts: 1901 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: A tunnel where I'm beginning to see the light
Allgoodnamesgone
♀ Member
Member # 26157
Default  Posted: 6:08 PM, April 15th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Cant believe no one was on all day!

Well, tonight is the night of the work event my h agreed to forego at my request. So we are on our way out to the beach instead. (Thought it might be a good idea since guys from work were giving him crap about it all day).
Let's hope I find the line between fun-drunk & angry drunk before I cross it.

[This message edited by Allgoodnamesgone at 6:09 PM, April 15th (Thursday)]


Me- BS
DDay- 8/26/09
Separated after failed R effort.

Posts: 2165 | Registered: Nov 2009
njgal480
♀ Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 6:48 PM, April 15th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Allgood....I'm glad that your husband gave up the work event for you...and your psychological well being.
Hope you have fun!

Forgive....you are so right about how the WS seem to be shocked by the enormity of the situation.... but, only after it is discovered.
That's when they are shocked by the consequences...

why is that?
is it because they kept thinking that it was nothing...
something that would end soon...
this would be the last time

(these are all things my husband has said he thought)...

or is it that they really thought that what we didn't know wouldn't hurt us
and..
we would never find out!

I guess.. there is one thing that is true... they never really wanted to leave the marriage...
because if they wanted to leave they could have ... they just didn't know how or didn't want to end the A either!

Speaking of middle aged WS getting a wake up call?
Did you read about Mel Gibson?
He had the long term marriage, many kids...
then an A with a young Russian 'actress' and then she got pregnant...
his wife found out .... they divorced...
he never married the Russian girl...
but, guess what...one yr later after all this hysteria...all this turmoil- they break up.
Just like that. Throw away a 30+ yr relationship...for what?


Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
booger bear
♀ Member
Member # 26584
Content  Posted: 7:17 PM, April 15th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

allgood ...

because the details are just killing me

I also struggled with this ... I went back and forth knowing and not knowing ...
I finally decided it was better I did not know ... it really helped with my sanity and the urge to seek revenage on him and OW ...

nofun ...

So maybe a separation will wake him up? Or maybe it will bring me some peace?

well I hope whatever happens you find peace regaurdless ... you deserve that ...

and I also hope you can find a way to talk to your kids ... they are all grown up and have been thru many life expirences ...

My mom and I have moved on from the typical mother-daughter relationship to being best friends ... we talk bout everything and hang out ... when I am home ...

she was the best mom when I was growing up ... and she was just that my mom ... not my friend ... but for the last several years that I have been grown up ... our relationship has reached whole new levels ...

I give her advice and vice versa ... and there is pain and sometimes ... well often times ... we disagree ... and we share our tears and sad/happy times ...

our relationship is much stronger and different but in a good way ...

njgal ...

Hawaii[/
italic]

have a wonderful time and take lot's of pics ...

iwant ...

I am happy your DS is in with what seems a great C ... I hope he can help out your DS and your family dynamic(not sure that is the word I want ),

anyway sounds like your DS may be doing that guy thing guys do ... where they are in the presence of another guy and they gotta show how much better they are than him ... KWIM ???

and I think it is in their DNA and they do it without thinking most of the time ... but I think once DS get's used to his role and the C's role in their relationship I think he will do well in C'ing ...

just takes time ... like so many other things in out lives ...

m3 ... baby !!!

squeeeee ... her little foot is so precious ... was the most beautiful little baby foot ever ...

fnf ...

If it's any consolation, today some 15 years later, she is my biggest support and we have a wonderful relationship. (Btw, it didnt' take 15 years for her to turn around - only about 5 but the point is she did and today we have a beautiful relationship.) I never would have believed it possible back then

my mom has often said very similar things about mer & her's relationship ... took me several years to come out of my teenage early 20-ities funk ... but we are soooo good now ...

and ...

We were the unfortunate exception. Those of us whose S's engaged in years and years of deceipt belong to a very exclusive club. Our S's MUST understand and acknowledge how much more difficult it is for us since our S's basically were living a double life. Every A brings enourmous pain to the BS and I'm not discounting anyone's pain but I do believe that the longer a spouse has engaged in an A the longer the healing process is bound to be.

I agree 100% ...

allgood ...

the article was amazing ... I read the whole thing ... wish my stbxwh had been able to read it ...

but this ...

Be honest with yourself: If you can’t or don’t want to get over your affair, if you don’t feel shame and remorse, and if you can’t generously provide appropriate support to your spouse, then now is the time to consider ending your marriage and spare your marital partner further pain. (If this is the case, you need not read any further.)

says it all ...

he will be happier with the whore anyway ...

I am still coming down or going up ... wonder which it is ...

from last week ... and I am now in the angry hate him again stage ... *sigh* this is all so very tiring ...

***tribe***


I am fiercely independent and I won’t apologize for it. I'd rather be single than settled.

Posts: 18711 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Here, but not there ...
trynhard
♂ Member
Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 8:31 PM, April 15th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Damn... wish'n I was at the beach.

Allgoodnamesgone.. you paid that A quick reference manual for unfaithful partners forward... Someone emailed that to me... I had also bought parts of that too... It was helpful in my R too.. I can remember being so scared to give it to her for some reason....

booger bear... I read a thread in the just found out and though about you. Some WW left him for the AP... I predict them to regret it... You would be a inspiration to him.. I think his handle is Jasper.

Yep forgive...

[This message edited by trynhard at 8:41 PM, April 15th (Thursday)]


Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
iwantamiracle
♀ Member
Member # 22812
Default  Posted: 8:48 PM, April 15th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

my post it seems is lost, i posted this afternoon...or i thought i did...now i have to go back to memory....but i do not have time, so hopefully later tonite if i am not too tired or tomorrow...

must be one of them angels, maybe i didn't say the right thing.. ....

so odd...its in internet heaven now...

so just a quick hi...and bye for now..

and since you can't see me, i will just let you know i am thoroughly scratchin my head, shakin it and rollin my eyes just like this ..and this , and even this ....


i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
booger bear
♀ Member
Member # 26584
Sad  Posted: 8:49 PM, April 15th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

yes tryn I have been reading Jaspers posts ... just not sure what to say to him yet ...

trying to find the words ... I know I have them and just having a hard time getting them out ...

he is also in D/S now ...


I am fiercely independent and I won’t apologize for it. I'd rather be single than settled.

Posts: 18711 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Here, but not there ...
nofun
♀ Member
Member # 24546
Default  Posted: 8:57 PM, April 15th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

allgood - thank you for that post...I wish my H would read it but unfortunately he won't.
And as far as H making an effort? Does not speaking to you count? He just has no clue. I now see all these issues he has and I have realized he is the one that needs to deal with them, not me. I honestly think he does not know how to deal with my emotions or what I am feeling. I'm just tired, exhausted. I'm at a point where I don't feel I can do this anymore.

iwant - I think I'm wanting a miracle. My H is not there for me emotionally and never was. I am not a needy person but I am in such pain I told him if he can't speak, at least just put your hand on my knee to let me know you understand. I am not even getting that. I get ignored in hopes that maybe I will snap out of it? I signed up for better or worse but this is far worse than I'm willing to put up with. Sometimes I think he is still in the fog? Could this be at 10 months out? Could he still be mourning the loss of OW?

And yes, I believe he is afraid. He's afraid of being a lonely old man. He's afraid of losing face with his "brothers" He told me there is nothing he could do to make it up to me so why try.
He also hates change and does not like being alone. He can't make any decisions on his own and relies on me for most everything. I guess I created a monster and now I'm trying to get rid of this monster.

Why did he not just go with OW? She was divorced and loved him. I asked him why and the answer I got was "because she has kids" and "I don't want to deal with HER kids". So what am I? Why would you say that? Why not say because I love you? He did say if I wanted to be with OW, I would be with her, but I want you. Well why? Because I take care of you? You don't like change? What? WTF?

Oh boy I'm just venting big time. Sorry guys! I got on a roll!!!


BS (me) 56
WH 61
M 36 yrs
OW - 55 - Howdy Doody Look Alike
3 Awesome Adult C
DD 6/7/09
LTA 12 years.
Confused: D or R???

Posts: 987 | Registered: Jun 2009
njgal480
♀ Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 9:16 PM, April 15th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

nofun....from what you are describing it does not sound like your husband is invested in saving your marriage.
Sounds like he is still in his fog... maybe he is mourning the OW, maybe he's just depressed...but, it doesn't sound like d-day woke him up....
maybe he does need to hit bottom for him to wake up and begin to appreciate all that he has....


Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
nofun
♀ Member
Member # 24546
Default  Posted: 9:30 PM, April 15th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I think you are right njgal...my friend told me a few days ago that H had everything that he could have ever wanted and yet he was never happy. My middle daughter told him a few years ago that what he needed was a life altering devastation to bring him to realize that what he has is truely wonderful. I think he is just a very depressed, unhappy individual.


BS (me) 56
WH 61
M 36 yrs
OW - 55 - Howdy Doody Look Alike
3 Awesome Adult C
DD 6/7/09
LTA 12 years.
Confused: D or R???

Posts: 987 | Registered: Jun 2009
iwantamiracle
♀ Member
Member # 22812
Default  Posted: 10:38 PM, April 15th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

nofun:

iwant - I think I'm wanting a miracle. My H is not there for me emotionally and never was. I am not a needy person but I am in such pain I told him if he can't speak, at least just put your hand on my knee to let me know you understand. I am not even getting that. I get ignored in hopes that maybe I will snap out of it? I signed up for better or worse but this is far worse than I'm willing to put up with. Sometimes I think he is still in the fog? Could this be at 10 months out? Could he still be mourning the loss of OW?

first off i know very well that miracle you seek, i once sought it out too, just check out my "handle"...i didn't get mine, i am so praying you get yours...

your h seems to have shut donw completely, and this is more then fustrating...it is mind-boggling and stupid...because what he wants most is right there for the taking, but he can't see through his fear....

the reasons he gave you for not leaving you are bogus, if he really wanted her, he would be gone...very few men or women even will stay with the person they feel stuck with if the person they truely love is available and willling....so me thinks he chooses you for you not because it will make his life inconvenient for whatever reason like kids or change...

whether or not he will ever learn to open up i cannot answer....but he is going to ic and this is the best first step...but this step takes time...he didn't get the way he did overnight, and he sure as hell is not going to be fixed in any kind of a short term.....and he wont be "fixed" if he doesnt want to, acknowledge it or gets proper help....

as a last ditch effort so to speak, would you be willing to check into a different counseler if after your meeting on monday you see what exactly this counselers true agenda is....???

nofun, the only reason i am pushing for you to hold off and get additional support with possibly a different counseler is because i feel your pain, and i know what it is to want that "miracle"....and more so i do not want you to have any regrets down the road...once you feel you have exhausted every avenue, then i say you do what you gotta do for you...no matter what you decide we will support you every step of the way, with many hugs and cyber open arms, unless you want to make a trip to new york, then you will have some real life arms, some puffs plus (the bestest tissues) and some good food and a really good cup of tea...

(((((nofun)))))

i will try to respond tomorrow to everyone else...need some sleep...

and tryn i think that is so cool, sending booger to offer some of her wisdom to a newbie...

and booger, start out with some hugs, maybe some words will come...maybe not, hugs though are always welcome, helpful and downright nice to get...


i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
booger bear
♀ Member
Member # 26584
Content  Posted: 10:46 PM, April 15th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

well that is what I intended to do ... I got to his thread in JFO and was just going to welcome and send hugs ... and before I knew it I was typing away ...

I don't know where the words came from or if they were even the right ones ... but they came and I typed ... I also kept going and posted on his thread in D/S ...

also not sure of my words ... but they came from somewhere and I felt I had to tell him ... so I did ...

good thing I didn't get any red flags ... so the words were ok ... just hope they were not hurtful and maybe helpful ...


I am fiercely independent and I won’t apologize for it. I'd rather be single than settled.

Posts: 18711 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Here, but not there ...
honesttoafault
♀ Member
Member # 27105
Default  Posted: 12:11 AM, April 16th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Good for you Booger. I'm sure you have helped Jasper with your wisdom. I've been reading his thread too, it's so sad.

Thank you for posting that article Allgood. It saddens me, though, because I feel that neither of my WH's did any of that. On the contrary, WH just blamed me for what he did and said so many horrible and hurtful things. Just the opposite of what was suggested. Yeah, he did say he was sorry he hurt me, and did validate my feeling that I wish it never happened, and he did too, but said that only once.

Miracle: I'm glad the C session went well. I say well, because your DS at least talked. Many teens might have just sat there silent and sullen. There is hope! DS#2 went through a rough couple of years as a teen, cutting school and classes, failing, etc. Now at the age of 30, he owns his own house that he paid for himself and is very responsible, good and wise and someone the whole famiy can rely on on and respect.

Nofun: I really feel for you. I wonder if your WH is really depressed? I'm not making excuses for him, but could that be a reason that he seems to have given up? That he is so beyond remorse, that he is extremely depressed? Just a thought.
I'm so sorry what you are going through. I agree with Miracle, you may need a new C, preferable an IC.

Do you think that instead of moving out permanently, you could perhaps tell WH that you want to stay with a relative or a friend for a few weeks? Tell him you need some time alone to sort things out. I'm just suggesting alternatives. Once he is completely on his own, he may at least realize how much he depends on you and what you actually do for him. It may get him to thinking.

As the others have said, we will all back you up, whatever you decide.

I think I'll have to get DS 15 into an IC too. He has been having trouble sleeping and is at an angry stage complaining about his father. (Yes WH told BOTH DS 11 & 15 they have 2 sisters and a brother!! He expected them to be happy about it!!)

It's so hard for me to try to help him because I'm angry too. As a child of divorce myself, I understand all too fully that it is wrong to put down the other parent. It hurts the child. The child loves the other parent, despite what they did. It hurts to hear ANYONE say anything bad about their father/mother, although it is ok for them to say it themselves.

Damn these WS's. They not only hurt a BS, but also their family. My WH not only is hurting our sons, but also those other OC's who are also innocent victims to all of this. They know about us too.

It's all too much for me to process sometimes.

{{{{Tribe}}}}}


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