I really want to caution you about your children... how old are they?
We read in the news everyday about situations where the foreign born spouse take the children on a vacation... and they end up on the home country and the betrayed spouse has no recourse in terms of getting the kids back!
So....if I were you.. I would not allow my kids to go anywhere with him alone!
I would hide their birth certificates and their passports... maybe give them to someone outside of your home for safe keeping....
just a thought...
about your husband still working with the OW and having triggers.....
You are very strong to be able to reconcile while he is still working with the OW!
I would not have been able to do that.
My husband just happened to take early retirement in Dec. 06 and d-day for me was Jan. 07...one month later!
so..he never had to go back to work with the OW after d-day!
he also cut off all contact with his (and her) drinking buddies from work...
and he became sober..and started attending AA (3 yrs now)...because of his sobriety he has also cut off contact with all of his former drinking buddies (many of which were toxic and not friends of marriage anyway...).
so, all of these factors helped me to feel 'safe'.
i still have fantasies about driving over to the OW's house , ringing her door bell, and confronting her face to face...!
so, I totally understand what you are feeling....
eventhough you don't drive.. do you have an understanding friend that could drive you so that you could drop by for lunch?
I would do that for you!
I haven't been on enough to know the whole story of what is going on...but, I am so sorry that you are struggling right now.
Sending you long distance hugs...
what do other people think about your marriage -- what do they express to you about it?
I understand the feeling about wanting your WSs dead… yep… I also wanted om dead…
She said in MC today that she would not tell me things to protect my feelings, but when she got mad she could speak the truth and it would all come out.
My WH’s affair was conducted away from home. He travels and stays away a lot. MOW’s BH did too. Her kids were away at school and uni. They would spent some times in hotels and others at her house because it was “convenient” for when her BH would call her. So my WH would sit while she chatted to her BH and she would sit while WH chatted to me!!!! Also, the secret thing and not telling a soul. No one. And MOW lives about an hour and a half from here. I trusted him and he abused that trust. It’s what they all do, so don’t blame yourself for not seeing and interpreting the “signs”. The blame lies completely at the feet of the WS. So there! As to how I would know if he did it again, the answer for me, sadly, is I wouldn’t’ know. But I have warned him that if I suspect he’s back with her again (I think the lure is there), I wouldn’t need “evidence”, my gut would be enough. But the others are right, you see things differently now and your antennae is tuned in their direction.
[This message edited by UKgirl at 8:50 AM, May 2nd (Sunday)]
WH said I was "all blown out down there" and "it was pretty bad"
Unfortunately, their nasty words live on long after our physical healing is done.
He wanted me to get an operation to "fix" it.
You think you look the same as you did when you got married? I'd bet not. Even if you do, you haven't spent the last 10 years having babies (the ones YOU wanted) and sacrificing your body for them. The next time you have to have someone stitch your asshole together because your just pushed a watermelon out of your butt, then you can squawk. If you ever spend 9 months with your belly stretched to obscene proportions, and manage to look exactly the same as you used to 6 weeks later, then you can bitch about how she's not attractive anymore. Until then, shut the fuck up. You have no concept of what she has sacrificed to give you the children you claim to love. You really think she wants varicose veins and stretch marks and saggy boobs? Get real. What she wants is a man who understands and values WHY she has varicose veins and stretch marks and saggy boobs. She wants a man who loves her because she was willing to make those sacrifices with her own body because she loves HIM. Instead, you criticize and go running off with the first perky 25 year old who gives you the time of day. Asshole.
It is Friday and some here are just a little crazy today. Me included.
Honest, stay strong. Got the Tribe behind you.
Okay, I’m going out for a while. Try and clear my head from this fug. If its holiday where you are, enjoy the extra day tomorrow. Not sure what I’m doing yet.
ETA - Shirley, I thought you'd like to see something from me that isn't a Martina song.
[This message edited by forgivenotforget at 2:29 PM, May 2nd (Sunday)]
[This message edited by forgivenotforget at 9:32 PM, May 2nd (Sunday)]
how could i be so blind for so long...i am far from a stupid person,…
This is up that way too… It doesn’t seem like there has been a breakaway?
Believe me… what you want is out there. Just make is so.
Oh well.. Off to enjoy a near perfect day here in Indiana.
[This message edited by trynhard at 8:53 AM, May 3rd (Monday)]
fnf: i did check out that song yesterday, i like the melody and the lyrics are really nice...so its a thumbs up...
I know she wants to be honest with me.
wants is not always does...we all want things, making them happen is another enitity though...want is a non -reality...does is the action verb that is needed...
There have been some good signs, she has refused to meet alone with a group of male volunteers who wanted to set up a fundraiser for her. She will not meet alone with male board members, and I have seen her struggle with holding this line without explaining why to them. I am now invited and attend all of the galas and such events she attends, like I used to do.
this is indeed more then good signs..this is action..this is doing...so this is great
I am just shocked at the behavior she has described, the alcohol use, the prescription drug abuse. The scheming and planning. I would never have believed my wife capable of these things.
its amazing isn't it, we had this view of who our spouses were, and all of their behavior does not fit into this box of who we thought they were.....and the fact that that box is now destroyed gives us immense pause in this new reality we now live in...and it still shocks...i am 16 months out and the shock is still there...
so, thats something to look out for ...the detachment....
i agree with this completely...for me though since he was never faithful the detachment as he got more deeply involved with all of them and his business the detachment just kept growing and growing...and i never recognized it for what it was...
the detachment is a sign that serves a purpose...if they detach they do not have to face who and what they are or have become..its a way not to face themselves...and its also a way to help them justify what they do..detach and demonize the bs...
what I didn't know then that I do know now...that affair partners will be satisfied with very little... a BJ in a parking lot in the afternoon every couple of months.... a work related trip... etc.
so, my husband never took any time away from his family it was all during work hours or on work trips with the MOW co-worker.....
i agree with the ap's being satisfied with very little...but that is not all ap's.....some ap's can get quite demanding....and time away from family...for me he took all time away from family and when his body was here, his heart and mind were always elsewhere...and when he did check in was to always dish out verbal and emotional abuse...not a pretty picture..
I would not allow my kids to go anywhere with him alone!
I would hide their birth certificates and their passports... maybe give them to someone outside of your home for safe keeping
honest i agree with njgal on this one...
ukgirl: did the visit with your parents go well?
I’ll just end up looking at all the places WH and MOW went to – like I did this morning
you think maybe its time to stop looking at these things yet....???....the only purpose it serves hon it to hurt you, and now you are the one hurting yourself...why continue this?...isn't it time you gave yourself a break....?..i could understand doing some random checks to make sure he is doing what he says and what he is supposed to...but that not what you are doing...and i would understand you looking at these places if you planned on desensitizing yourself to help your triggers....but that not what you're doing is it?...
as far as i could see, you have made a decision to stay in your marriage, and you are not staying like i am, you have made a choice to be married in every way to this man...so if this is what you want don't you think it would be better if you stopped torturing yourself....kind of like booger needs to get rid of all that "stuff"...for her its real material "stuff" for you its putting yourself into a sich where you make yourself deal with the "stuff" of the mind...
just a thought and twist of percpective..
thankyou tryn for the pictures and the thoughts..
Personally - I'm stressin out - as I have been since I woke up & today is going to be a very looong day for me.
Freaking out because my H is attending something after work today (unavoidable)and won't be home til 9 or so. To me, there's a chance that ow will be there. He doubts it. Truth is, I would be unsettled just based upon all of the unaccounted for time - even if it wasn't a function that she was attending.
It all comes down to a lack of trust. I still have lingering doubts as to whether it's really over. (I knew when I found the secret phone 7 months ago I would never get over it - and I haven't. To me, it just shows me that after a month of us trying to reconcile - after he had seen all the damage - after his perception that I didn't care about him was corrected - after we became more loving and affectionate with each other - all that and he couldn't go nc with her.)
Assuming that nc has been in place for some time now (I think it has been - at least for the past 4 months) I still worry that if and when he should see her -it's going to bring up all of those feelings. (She is very sexy, fun & flirty & very popular amongst their coworkers.) He has absolutely nothing bad to say about her and I wonder if he still feels guilty because she moved her place of employment so he wouldn't have to.
To add to all of this - we of course argued last night when he told me he was going to this. It was a short argument - but I definitely threw a couple of low blows in there... So now I'm feeling like maybe he doesn't even have good feelings about us right now. (He continues to believe that there really can't be any reconciliation after infidelity. but I tried to reassure him of my commitment yesterday. He expressed his commitment to the marriage - but other than that - he tried to make light of the situation & clearly wasn't going to engage in a heart to heart about it.)
I hate the fact that all this crap is stopping me from being the parent I want to be and is stopping me from just enjoying life. My kids are truly awesome and I feel like they have been neglected for far too long now because I'm preoccupied with my h's stupid affair and the aftermath.
And because he's going out I can't go to the gym... my favorite class too - I could totally use a little kickboxing right now.
i know telling you to keep the faith would be somewhat of a waste of time.....right now you have none....and i so understand that....and i could so understand you not having anything left over for your kids....been there done that....recognizing it though is a great first step...so i think you should do whatever you gotta do to plug into your kids...take a xanax, do a little breathing...run up and down your steps if you got any a couple of times to exert some energy...then sit down with your favorite beverage and one of your kids doing an activity....the weather is supposed to clear up this afternoon...you could take the kids outside...fake it til you make it...
as for tonite, i know you will probably be on eggshells, post here, vent it out...have a glass of wine too...
i am sending you as much patience mojo as can be mustered my friend...patience and some kind of serenity...
and btw why can't tonite be avoided....and he doesn't have to stay for the whole time of whatever it is....he could make an appearance, feign a headache or something and come home...just a thought..
[This message edited by forgivenotforget at 10:13 AM, May 3rd (Monday)]
i agree that he has to go to the wake, some things just can't be avoided...and can you get a sitter and go with him???...and there really is no reason for him to stay and then continue the "party"/wake
i would also think alot would depend on who the wake is for...
plant the seed allgood....see if it will grow...
fnf: i don't know how spot on i really am, but i do know how much i am thought of and i can't express how much that fills me up, and lately when i am running on empty it is truly a godsend....so thank you...
She said it's better when they die....YOU GET THE INSURANCE!!
This made me laugh because when we got my H's life insurance I said "Well, no we just hope for the best!" I meant that we'd never have to use it -- but it's creeped him out ever since, so funny!
Talk about getting rid of stuff, I keep trying to purge my house of stuff from OW and that reminds me of her and I've come to realize that it's totally impossible. When someone has been your "good friend" for six years you wind up with a lot of shit. I gave away toys for the kids, hand me down clothes, got rid of most of my pictures of her -- but if I got rid of all the pictures of things we did together I'd be getting rid of most of DS #1's little kid pictures -- so I've got tons where she's not in it but I know she was there -- even my F'in measuring cups were from her, etc. It's just impossible. I am repainting the inside of my house ASAP though -- since she painted hers the same color as mine last summer (psycho) Every time I walk into my house it just totally creeps me out.
My car is totaled by the way -- and was worth more than I thought -- so I'll be getting a big fat check.
If you think back there were probably signs that you didn't know were signs -- detachment is a big one, I agree. and got drunk for DS2's birth and didn't come to be with me when I had two surgeries.. etc., etc.
My H acted a lot like NJgal's -- but we had so much going on, several deaths in his family, well, a lot so I just didn't think about an A. He and OW had been "friends" for years and had their whole routine down, I guess.
And about being fooled -- I would rather be the kind of person who thinks of others in a way that they can be fooled. Sadly, I think my H killed that in me. I hate who this has made me.
UK -- no, I didn't tell him. I don't want to tell him anything about my feelings ever again. It was so hard for me to give marriage a second chance after my first one failed. The only real way to do it is to love your spouse heart, mind, body and soul, and I did, and it bit me in the ass. I don't see how everything will ever be OK again -- but like miracle's name, I want a miracle.
ETA -- I think Monday's are just hard for me. It gets stressful and overwhelming to be with my H all weekend. It's like all that pain relentlessly staring me in the face. I truly, truly love my husband. Otherwise, I would never bother to try to make this work. I would honestly give my life for him, it's just, sometimes I feel like I'd rather give my life for him than live my life with him.
I guess if I told him that he would think I haven't really forgiven him, but I have. And I am trying to forget to the extent that forgetting is reasonable or possible. I'd like to look back on it someday and feel little pain and simply think something along the lines of you were such and ass, what on earth were you thinking.
But there is something going on I still need to work through and I can't quite put my finger on it. Maybe my IC will help me figure it out. And once I've done that, then I probably won't post or even lurk anymore. I'm grateful for those who stay and help -- but putting it all the way behind me will mean leaving this place when the time is right.
[This message edited by m334455 at 11:17 AM, May 3rd (Monday)]
My car is totaled by the way -- and was worth more than I thought -- so I'll be getting a big fat check.
i am sure that this was a total pain in the ass, and on the flip side the biggest blessing, (no one was hurt, esp your son, thanks to your making sure of it)...i like looking at the flip side, i always did, but like you m3 this experience has change me for who i was...which brings me to:
UK -- no, I didn't tell him. I don't want to tell him anything about my feelings ever again. It was so hard for me to give marriage a second chance after my first one failed. The only real way to do it is to love your spouse heart, mind, body and soul, and I did, and it bit me in the ass. I don't see how everything will ever be OK again --
and this makes me sad...i do believe that traumatic events change who we are, but that doesn't mean that things will never be ok again, they will be different, they will have lost that certain innocense that we all have where believing in one another is concerned...but they will be ok again...we need to believe that...we will all have a new normal, a new reality...but it doesn't have to mean that we will be unhappy either....sure that blissful innocense may be gone but look at how we grow up, we all have that blissful innocense and we believe in santa claus and the tooth fairy....life moves on and you find new happy with what you do believe in....and this site shows me that there are still many good people in this world...so i still believe in people...do i have doubts about people...you bet, but along with those doubts i believe that there are good people, and we need to weed them out....and generally some ws's are just people who are good people who just did bad things....stupid things....and hopefully these good people who did bad have learned, and have changed just as we had...and hopefully their experience has changed them to be the people they should have been from the getgo....does it mean you put blind trust back into the person....no...but you can learn to trust again, it would be a different trust and a trust that would have to be earned, HARD EARNED...but its more then possible, and for many it doesn't need a "miracle"...it needs hard work on both parts, starting with the ws...and if the ws is willing to do the work, so much is possible including happiness...
so keep the faith m3, i know you have faith in alot of things, religion has taught you that....not blind faith, but faith...
And, this might sound weird, but my WH is doing all the right things, and yet I feel like he's just phoning it in. Is that coming from him or from me. Maybe that's what I'm trying to work out here.
something going on: if you want to talk it out, we will all listen and try to help...sometimes it helps...and i am glad that you will talk to your ic about it, that is what ic is for...that and more..
this is a process....and sometimes, usually most times from what i have seen its not short one....you will figure it out, and don't discount the fact that this is a traumatic event for you that involved a double betrayal and now add to that 4 kids, one fairly recent so that your hormones are not normal yet and then add in a huge dose of life....you have been through so much...and none of it lightweight...so take your time in processing and remember to keep this is mind....all of your experiences change who you are, but they don't change your core person....not really...your perceptions will change about your life, about people...but the person you are is so much more then just your perceptions...i don't know if i am making any sense...so i think i will need to leave this one alone for now anyways..
and as for coming here when you are healed...not something to sweat...you need to do what you feel is right for you, if coming here will keep you immeshed in it where you feel it will hinder your progress then you don't come here anymore...no biggie, you will be missed and we will be very happy for you and we would be sad for you to come back....because we want basically the same thing for each other as well ourselves...to heal the wounds and to live healthy and happy and to do what it takes to do so in a healthy way....
but being vulnerable doesn't mean that you give him carte-blanche...it just means your open...if you close off then nothing will work....you need to be open is all....and have faith....i know you believe in god...keep that faith and put into god...
and m3 if he screws it up, you will know that you truly did everything possible and that will help you move on, its when we have regrets that moving on becomes impossible...we live in regret instead of in the moment..