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User Topic: Long Term Affair X V I I
forgivenotforget
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Member # 11053
Default  Posted: 3:17 PM, May 4th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

He just called from the lunch break and admitted that he had violated a boundary and he was, yet again, on the fucking slippery slope.

HS - first - I want to send you lots of hugs and offer any support I can from a distance. I know how awful this must feel and it was so unnecessary. He has been doing so well, so I can only imagine how upset you must be right now. My question is what did he mean when he said "he was yet again on the fucking slippery slope." Did he say this or were these your words and if it was him, was he referring to his drinking?
I would absolutely have him come home and have an IC and MC session scheduled for his first day back. I would want to know why, after all his hard work and his amazing progress, he felt he couldn't resist the pressure of his clients to drink.
Maybe, as Miracle suggests, he needs to attend AA to help him understand how this could have happened.
Please let us know how we can help and keep posting if it helps relieve your hurt and rage.
((((((((Shirley)))))))


D-day - 12/23/05 LTA - 8 years.
"Love's a matter of trust and I just want to believe in us." M McBride

Posts: 1901 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: A tunnel where I'm beginning to see the light
forgivenotforget
♀ Member
Member # 11053
Default  Posted: 3:22 PM, May 4th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Tim McGraw is eye candy. After I read that, I checked him out to see if I had been missing something. He still does nothing for me!


Ok then, Dip, if Tim doesn't do it for you, you have to check out his wife, Faith Hill and if she doesn't do it for you then I suggest an immediate appointment with an eye doctor.
Also, I think your wife is checking out this site. Allgood, NoFun, Miracle, hmmmmm, a little to coincidental in my book. Better watch what you say on here for a few days. Mommy may be watching.


D-day - 12/23/05 LTA - 8 years.
"Love's a matter of trust and I just want to believe in us." M McBride

Posts: 1901 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: A tunnel where I'm beginning to see the light
hurtshirley
Member
Member # 16197
Default  Posted: 3:34 PM, May 4th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

"he was yet again on the fucking slippery slope." Did he say this or were these your words and if it was him, was he referring to his drinking?

My words but he agreed. Most of his issues in life start with the drinking. It doesn't help that both of his parents and his brother are/were raging drunks. (Dad is dead, brother is dying of liver disease). He knows that drinking puts him on the slippery slope of doing SOMETHING stupid. In this case, it was just cruising right through a boundary. But, how long until he is buzzed up at a meeting (of course, hiding it from me because he is out of town) and some young thing slips in and says "you're hot" and away we go....

he felt he couldn't resist the pressure of his clients to drink.

Oh no, it is worse than this. He GAVE HIMSELF PERMISSION!!!! Didn't think it would be a big deal because of who he was with.

Said "he forgot" about our agreement. When pressed he said he probably thought about it but he "wasn't doing anything bad".

FUUUUUUCCCCCCKKKKKKKK!!!!! I don't want to be his mother. I want to be able to believe but his actions are speaking volumes about how far he has come but how close he still is too his former self.

Yes, he told the truth (or at least I THINK he did ). Yes, he admitted he acted in a way that was disrespectful to me and the family. He is talking about it and admitting it instead of lying and minimizing but I DON"T CARE.....I DON'T WANT TO HAVE TO FUCKING DEAL WITH IT.

(can you tell i'm a little angry)

So what do I do? We talked about our anniversary next week and "recognizing" the "start of our journey" so that the kids wouldn't have to walk on eggshells all day knowing it was our 25th and we weren't talking about it.

I was trying to get to a place to forgive him.

Then he goes and SHOWS me his old self again and I just want to run in the opposited directions screaming "GET AWAY FROM ME".

The good news is after almost 3 years on SI I know the drill. Did a massive workout, go outside in the sun, took the dog for a walk, started painting the bathroom ( ) Made sure to eat and breathe.

The fucker is supposed to come home late tonight. Think I will leave a note telling him to sleep downstairs (with the dog) until we have a chance to discuss further. (He is with clients all day again).

Shit. Fuck. Goddamit. Sonofabitch.


"Forgiveness is the grace by which you enable the other person to get up, and get up with dignity, to begin anew" Desmond Tutu

Posts: 2170 | Registered: Sep 2007
forgivenotforget
♀ Member
Member # 11053
Default  Posted: 3:37 PM, May 4th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I spent two nights this weekend alone. (H had to work) I realized that I do not love my husband like I used to. I never will love him like I used to. How can I?

NoFun, I wanted to let you know that I felt this way for at least 2 years after d-day and I have slowly been allowing myself to love him fully again. It is risky but I do think it can happen.
I know you are going through a rough time and it seems like you are experiencing a lot of conflicting emotions. The good news is that you really don't have to make any rash decisions right now. You are in a good position to take this slowly (if that's what you want) and come to that decision knowing that you allowed yourself to weigh the many options you have.
There were days when I sometimes thought I hated my H, especially if he became defensive or beligerent. Others I would be so happy we were still together. These feelings seemed to change from day to day. Now, most days I am happy to have hung in there.
I hope you can take the pressure of making a decision off yourself and slowly and consciously allow yourself the time you need to really decide what it is your truly want and need.
((((NOFUN))))
Ast - I cannot believe your MC said this to you. To me, it sounds like he/she has little or no experience with long-term infidelity. As UKG said, Long Term Affair = Long Term Recovery. This is an absolute given. All of us in this LTA forum have years of betrayal coupled with so many other aspects that complicate our healing even more. For UKG, her H's A was with an old girlfriend, my H was involved with someone I knew and thought was a friend for 22 years, some of you have S's who not only engaged in a LTA but who had multiple other ONS or STA's. It goes on and on. How can a qualified MC suggest that it was time to get over it. I would have walked out immediately. I think what really bothered me most was that it had the potential of minimizing your W's A and indescretions and she could feel tempted to throw this up at you when it suits her mood. This does not bode well for you or for her.
IMHO, if you do not think that he was saying this as some sort of test to either you or your W, I would change MC's or start looking for another one asap.
ETA - When I asked my MC if he had any other couples in his practice whose M was violated by an 8 year A, he said no, we were the only ones. I would want to ask your MC the same thing, exactly how many couples has he C'ed whose S engaged in 2 LTA's and if I'm reading this correctly, your W's A with #1 and #2 were happening simutaneously for at least several months. Your MC doesn't see a problem here?

[This message edited by forgivenotforget at 3:54 PM, May 4th (Tuesday)]


D-day - 12/23/05 LTA - 8 years.
"Love's a matter of trust and I just want to believe in us." M McBride

Posts: 1901 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: A tunnel where I'm beginning to see the light
atsenaotie
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Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 3:53 PM, May 4th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

forgivenotforget
if you do not think that he was saying this as some sort of test to either you or your W, I would change MC's or start looking for another one asap

This is one of the reasons I am going to see him this week for IC while FWW is visiting her parents.

I have really respected him as an IC. I worked with him for my anxiety back in '07 when I suspected the A's, but was convinced otherwise. He has been good at getting FWW to deal with issues she has not recognized or dealt with fully. He was good at moving me from taking blame for everything to standing up and articulating my expectations and needs.

A part of me (grab your 2x4's) has started to wonder if I am being unreasonable or the source of the problem. Maybe he sees that FWW is doing all that can be expected and is frustrated that I am not responding. Maybe things are just so bad that he truly wonders why I am still here? I guess I will know more this weekend.


LTA BS 53
FWW 60
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Reconciled

Posts: 3967 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
forgivenotforget
♀ Member
Member # 11053
Default  Posted: 4:02 PM, May 4th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(can you tell i'm a little angry)

And who wouldn't be? This is a major violation of your agreement. I am just hoping that when your H gets home, he will be full of regret and remorse and not try to minimize his drinking. It is unfortunate, to say the least, but he has done so well and although this is a major problem for you and him, I do think he has learned so much and I have confidence that he will make every effort to make sure it doesn't happen again. I do hope so anyway.
Don't make any decisions about your anniversary right now. Cool down, get an emergency MC'ing session if you think it might help, and if you're still not ready to "celebrate" next week, make up some excuse to your girls that we wanted to wait till our summer vacation and celebrate it then (if you're planning one for sometime during the summer months).
(((HS)))


D-day - 12/23/05 LTA - 8 years.
"Love's a matter of trust and I just want to believe in us." M McBride

Posts: 1901 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: A tunnel where I'm beginning to see the light
trynhard
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Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 4:20 PM, May 4th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

atsenaotie....No 2 x 4 by me... All of us have problems... ALL OF US. I think after something like this happens, there is nothing wrong with trying to improve ourselves and learn something about ourselves… Was your IC trying to point something specific?

Like I always say, you can only control what you do… If you want to not greet your spouse ever time you see them without a hug and kiss.. that is your decision. If you don't want to do loving things.. that is your choice...


Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
honesttoafault
♀ Member
Member # 27105
Default  Posted: 7:00 PM, May 4th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Ok, I'm more under control.

HS: I'm so sorry!!! As an ACOA (adult child of an alcoholic) and first xWH was a controlled alcoholic, I understand your fury. You are right to be furious. But please, if it helps any, this broken promise has nothing to do with YOU!!. He has an addiction and unless he faces it and attends AA, he will continue with this problem. It could help if you can go to an AlAnon meeting.

Alcoholism does run in families. The research isn't sure if it's hereditary, or environmental, or even an allergery (not reacting to alcohol the way most people do.....can't stop once they start, etc)

Again, this time, if it's any consolation, this has nothing to do with you and how much he loves you. He has a disease. A disease that he must admit he has before he can begin to deal with it. My father was a "sober alcoholic" for over 30 years. It can be done.

{{{{{HurtShirley}}}}}


Posts: 1903 | Registered: Jan 2010
honesttoafault
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Member # 27105
Default  Posted: 7:45 PM, May 4th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I want to thank everyone for their wonderful support and advice:
UKgirl: I'm sorry to hear about those triggers with the family tree. It's so hard to explain them to people. For me, DS 34 was dating a 38 yr.old woman, same age as OW, and she had the same name as OC #2. Those triggers are hard.
I agree that my WH wants his own little world to continue and since I'm not playing according to his directions, he's having tantrums as Miracle says.

NJ: I agree whole heartedly, WH is toxic. I've been poisoned by him for 22 years and trying to detox is very difficult.

Dip: Thank you for your response. It really helps to get a man's POV, especially about most people would never share a spouse or have an operation like he wants. He's still harping on that.

Allgood: I was hoping for a family mediation with him like they do in his culture. With his aunt, who is probably the only one alive he seems to respect, and his cousin. Also, according to their traditions, I would have my DS 30 (the level headed one) also be there. I haven't told him this, but I thought this might be a good idea with finances. Since I think he's a NPD, how it LOOKS to others, is important, especially these family members. He does respect my DS 30 too. It was just an idea.

Atsen: I agree with the others that your MC telling you to get over the triggers doesn't sound good. I'm glad that you said that you will see him as an IC soon, but I agree with the others that he doesn't seem to understand LTA. I agree with UKgirl, that LTA = LT recovery.

Tryn: thank you so very much for your post and diagram. Yes, he is getting higher and higher defense attacks because he seems to be less able to defend his actions.

Our whole marriage has consisted of me giving in to him, always talking calmly. I never raise my voice to him or even use an "improper tone". Yes, he has me trained very well, but I'm not one to argue with yelling anyway. I NEVER "hit below the belt", keep to the subject, etc. That's me anyway. I have raised my voice a few times this past year to him. After 22 years, I only have yelled at him 4 times and it was just in this past year!

Miracle: You are wise. WH certainly is having temper tantrums and displaying horrible antics to get me back into submission. Yes, he will do anything to survive and make sure he is right. I understand logically what you are saying about him existing on fear, but it's so hard to really see it in him. He always acts like he's so in charge and control of himself and so VERY self-assured.

Nofun: Unfortunately, I don't think you will ever love your WH the SAME again. It will be different. Hopefully, you two will be able to get to a place where you love each other deeply and can build a new relationship, because the truth is, the old relationship is over. I believe you can do it.

FNF: Cycle of abuse. I'm just beginning to realize that I AM in an abusive relationship ...emotionally abused. Lately, he has been verbally abusing me when he's mad and backed into a corner. Yes, I know that's when an animal will attack!!
I was starting to heal these past 2 months and when he started with his shit, "hitting below the belt" with his comments, showing no sign of any regard for my feelings, It hit my like a ton of bricks that the abuse cycle was beginning again and I reacted like I was trapped again.

ETA: Thank you everyone for worrying about WH's possible physical abuse.

He told his aunt a year ago that he was divorced from OW and she was very bad, so bad he even hit her. The aunt told me, and when I confronted WH with this, he admitted it. He told me how wrong he was. That he would never forgive himself that he did something like that and really looked ashamed (I never saw him look like that) Ever since I knew him, he has always said if he heard on the news or something about a man hitting a woman that that was the worse thing.

That said, it only says that WH has it ingrained that it's wrong, it doesn't mean it can't happen. Matter of fact, I KNOW that he could possibly be capable of it if he gets that mad. But usually when he gets mad, he'll just say, "I'm too mad to talk" and walks away. Anytime he's almost been pushed to fight with anyone (a guy) it's when they don't leave it and start with him.
I'm not praising him, just telling it realistically. Also, my luck, he has a black belt in BOTH karate and Tae Kwon Do!
He always goes on about how those things are "disciplines" etc.

I would never push anyone to be that angry. But, as Miracle,FNF and Tryn says, it's possible in this situation where he is fighting for control of his old life and the way I always was submissive and starting to stand up for myself in little ways.

How? He makes a big deal about how I dress. He prefers I dress modestly, which I naturally do anyway. But if a shirt is too fitted or is not long covering my butt (in pants!) he wants me to change. I wore a shirt the other day that was fitted and not as long as he likes. He says," That's too sexy" (I'm overweight now because of the meds...I guess I"m sexy like Queen Latifah! )
Usually, I would change, but I just smiled and said, "thank you!" and walked away from him.
These things are driving him crazy.

I really want to thank everyone from the bottom of my heart. You guys really saved my life yesterday. I actually felt a little suicidal for a few minutes yesterday. It passed quickly and stayed away after reading all your support. You guys are my heroes!!!

{{{{Tribe}}}}


Posts: 1903 | Registered: Jan 2010
iwantamiracle
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Member # 22812
Default  Posted: 10:56 PM, May 4th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

dip: it does seem that i have many titles or names... ...maybe you could add sybil to the bunch of them...afterall of this i sometimes feel like i am many different people.. ...too bad they don't each come with a salary and a separate salary for each...


so your wife was channeling us...very interesting to say the least...does she talk in her sleep too?? there is no escape for you from us.. ...

hs: ok letting him sleep with the dog is a great start...does the dog have fleas?...it might do him good to scratch his ass... ...

ok all kidding aside, i know you are steaming mad..and i don't blame you, you were just starting to ease up a bit too, which i am sure adds more fuel to an already raging fire...

now, have you decided what you want from him? have you thought about what he can do about this?....

your anniversary..i agree with fnf, put that on the back burner for now and deal with what is going on in the very present..

ats; no 2x4's from me either...maybe some 1x2's though....

wonder if I am being unreasonable or the source of the problem

you are so not the source of the problem and in a way neither is your wife...its your wifes actions and inactions that are the source of the problem....her choices and boundaries are the issue or lack thereof...and all the aftermath that accompanies every choice she has made....

the aftermath is where the journey is long and hard...your ic may be a great ic for normal everyday crap or even not normal once in a blue moon crap...but that does not mean that he is well versed in infidelity, and infidelity of this magnitude...lta's offer their own brand on this....and then even the type of lta can determine the length of the journey..eg. was love invloved...that is usually a biggie..

go see him this weekend and see what he has to say, but if he tries to blame you in any way for not being able to move forward, you then know that this is just not his forte...if he feels that the infidelity was already dealt with, or he thought it was and is trying to move on to the marriage after the fact, well then he just needs to be brought up to speed that this is obviously not the case...

there comes a point in time, at least we hope this point comes...where we can put all the "a" stuff in a box and put it away, not to be forgotten, but to be put into the past....and once it is in the past the present is at hand and can be lived in...living in the present, enjoying the now...living in the now..still preparing and doing for the future but living in the now....

really hard to do but so damned rewarding....

so find out what his perception of your sich is and then make your judgement call....

loyalty is awesome, but remember you first loyalty is to yourself..

honest: glad you checked in....glad you are doing better too...

and glad that you are preparing yourself for anything and everything..keep remembering that knowledge is power..

and yes it is a total conundrum when someone is so full of himself leading you to beleive he so self-assured, how can this person be operating from fear....

all people operate from either the stance of fear or the stance of love...every negative action and/or words are all from the stance of fear...the more fear the more negativity...after all whe you are afraid you feel like you need to defend and launch an offense....keep them on their toes, the need to win...

and i could so relate to looking at someone who has balls the size of the rock of gibralter and actually realize that that person is actually afraid...but they are....

sometimes the fears are simple...like losing someone or losing control
sometimes the fears are complicated...like seeing themselves reflected in others...

did you ever see an animal react in fear?....and we humans now add it all things human to the fear, like reflection of self, seeing the pain inflicted on another, or even not seeing it because you are afraid to deal with your choices...and this could go on and on...

keep it in the back of your mind, he is afraid, it will help you get through it ...

and sexy up girl....sexy up!!!

ok end of ramble...

((((tribe))))


i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
UKgirl
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Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 2:28 AM, May 5th (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

He is talking about it and admitting it instead of lying and minimizing but I DON"T CARE.....I DON'T WANT TO HAVE TO FUCKING DEAL WITH IT.
(((((shirley)))))
Oh shirley, I know you’re mad,but at least he still phoned you and didn’t wait until he was sober. I really think the best thing would be for him to just stop drinking completely. Not even one drink. He can say he has health problems and can’t drink so he doesn’t lose face. And is getting mad with him going to help? I rather think that if there is a next time he simply won’t tell you – and then he WILL be on the slippery slope. I’m so sorry you are dealing with this after all this time. And I think FNF has a good idea regarding the anni – postpone until summer unless you already have something arranged.

and she was very bad, so bad he even hit her.
He always goes on about how those things are "disciplines" etc.
What the fuck did she do that was SO BAD he HAD to hit her??? My goodness, how did you end up with this apology of a man? He is charming. >>angry snort<< That is not a quality imo. That means he just wants to persuade people which in turn means he is controlling by nice means rather than nasty. At least with you. At least until now. I think he will show you the other side of this “charm” in the same way as he showed it to wife#2. As for you dressing “too sexy” by not having your shirt completely covering your backside… wtf?? Aren’t you allowed to use your own judgment and dress how YOU feel right? What is he – an adviser on “What Not To Wear”? I’d tell him to stuff his misogynistic chauvinistic backwater sexist opinions. Fuckwit. Yeh. If that’s how you want to dress, do it girl. You dress for YOU, and he can go fuck himself. You are NOT chattel nor a servant nor a slave. Fuck him.

Atsenaotie,

I have really respected him as an IC. I worked with him for my anxiety back in '07 when I suspected the A's, but was convinced otherwise.
Well, he might be good for anxiety and self esteem issues, but if he hasn’t covered affairs in detail and has no experience of dealing with LTA’s then he might not be the right MC for you. He can probably deal with your wife’s issues as she is the one who went outside the marriage. She made choices, you have had those choices forced upon you and so you are not only dealing with PTSD but also seeing your whole life in a different light. While you are on the path to reconciliation, you are making progress. How long it takes cannot be dictated. This is YOUR healing. I would put all of our opinions to him and glean anything else from the healing library and if he can’t agree on doing things at your pace, that you find another MC. And just how many clients/couples has he seen with a history like yours?

I realized that I do not love my husband like I used to. I never will love him like I used to.
Unfortunately, you won’t. You have had your life shattered by this man. You see him in a different way. You may look at him and wonder who he is. Hang on to the good times. I think miracle has a point when she says that the old relationship is over. You have to work on a new one. And in just the same way as those who marry more than once do not have the same type of love the second (or even third) time around, they can have the depth and quality – it is just different. That is why I am trying to work on seeing the man I am with now as somebody new in my life. He has been here for a year or so now and I kinda like him. He knows my history and he knew WH very well. I’m trying to see him as someone different so I CAN let him in to my life and, in time, my heart.


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3328 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
Allgoodnamesgone
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Member # 26157
Default  Posted: 5:42 AM, May 5th (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Morning all.

Honest: you sound good! As for the family mediation - just a note of caution- you are never going to be able to get what you would get from him with the assistance of a lawyer. Even if this is just an informal "agreement" - it can hinder your later efforts to get more - he'll never understand why you "changed your mind" and will resist any & all modifications you try to make to this initial agreement. I think an agreement as to how your finances are going to be run on a daily basis & how the rest of your assets are going to be protected & not disappear is one thing - to at least put a band-aid on the situation - but to discuss anything more - like the division of assets, etc. I would avoid - but make it clear that you're not waiving your rights as to the same. Idk Honest - try to keep it simple - he may not respect anyone but his family - but that doesn't mean that the courts here can't protect you.

Miracle:

all people operate from either the stance of fear or the stance of love...every negative action and/or words are all from the stance of fear...the more fear the more negativity...after all whe you are afraid you feel like you need to defend and launch an offense....keep them on their toes, the need to win...

sometimes the fears are simple...like losing someone or losing control
sometimes the fears are complicated...like seeing themselves reflected in others...

Excellent point!

Shirley: I obviously don't have much guidance for you. I wish I could get my H to stop drinking as much as he does - I commend you for getting your h to the point where he is now - even if he did screw up. Just know I am thinking of you - I'm sure you will work it out.

Busy day today - but I hope to check in later.


Me- BS
DDay- 8/26/09
Separated after failed R effort.

Posts: 2165 | Registered: Nov 2009
UKgirl
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Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 8:31 AM, May 5th (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

OMG, I just re-read my post to honest. That was pretty rude of me and out of order. Sorry. I’ll go to the back of the class now and put some sticky tape over my fat gob.

Guess I’m having one of “those” days when people had better not get on the wrong side of me.


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3328 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
old dipstick
♂ Member
Member # 25598
Default  Posted: 9:11 AM, May 5th (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

hurtshirley. Sleeping with the dog. That is a good start. It sounds like he does need to not drink at all. I hope you are able to handle this without getting too mad. Being mad does not seem to help. I have experience with that. I don't blame you for being pissed though.

honest. He is still harping about the operation? Well I will keep harping too. He is fullof shit. Don't even think about it. Him being a black belt is a scary thought. I will say that what they teach is a discipline to not use these skills unless there is no way to avoid it. That said, any man can be dangerous if he snaps. Be careful.

My W will ask my advice about how she dresses. I will almost never just tell her how she should dress. Maybe if I think something does not look good. Of course "no it does not make you look fat" is a good answer to most fashion questions.

UKgirl. I hope I am not on the wrong side of you today or any day. You were pissed at her H. I think we have all hammered him pretty hard. His "I am going to share myself with the both of you" attitude, seems to bring out a little extra in all of us.

forgive. Faith Hill is not bad. She seems to be a little more my type.

My W does not ever use my computers and I am sure she would never use her work puter to access a site like this. I really do not think that she has checked this place, because the shit has not hit the fan. Of course if I am wrong, what I just said will start the shit storm for sure.

Sybil miracle. I like that. A salary increase is in order. I need to calculate just how much, but I am working on it. She does talk in her sleep from time to time. That always gets my attention. If she starts saying fucktard, and fuckwit, then I know I am in trouble.

Hugs to the tribe.


Her WW 60
Me BH 60
M 36 yr
D-day#1 fall of 76 OM#1 2NS
D-day#2 summer of 89 OM#2 LTA 8 yrs OM#3 Short Term A


Posts: 751 | Registered: Sep 2009
honesttoafault
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Member # 27105
Default  Posted: 9:51 AM, May 5th (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Allgood: You are going to have to start charging me for the great legal advice!!
What you said really put it in perspective for me. We did write an very informal agreement together, just us, but as you say, it's just a bandaid, and I know it.

Tryn: lol about, "no honey, you don't look fat in that!"
as the best fashion advice!!
You are right, he is potentially dangerous.
When WS first told me on DDay #1, I went from one emotion to another, including anger. I told WH that if my two older sons knew, they'd beat him up (just an anger response) He said, they couldn't because of his black belt. Then I turned and looked him right in the eye and said deathly calm, "They would never do it. Do you know why? Because they love DS 11 & 15 too much and they wouldn't hurt their father!!! They are better than that!!!" He didn't know what to say, but he looked a little shamed.

Which bring me to UKgirl:

THANK YOU

I do need to say these things myself!! You brought more perspective to me on how I should be reacting to all this and just accepted it all over the years.
I am eternally grateful to my former BIL who yelled at his big brother xWH right in the bar when he saw xWH with OW. Former BIL worshipped xWH and was scared of him, but people told me that he yelled at him in front of everyone. I felt that someone stood up for me!!!
With my current WH, his cousin called up and yelled at him. DS 15 at first wanted his older brothers to yell at his father, and I told him what I said to WH about how they wouldn't do it because they love him, but he was so very happy that WH's cousin did.

I know, in the long run, other people don't want to get involved in a domestic issue, but sometimes it's good if someone does tell the assholes they're full of shit!!

I'm going to see IC again today. I know I've been stretching this thing out to avoid the inevitable. I've been through a divorce, and it isn't pretty. This one will be horrendous.

{{{{{Tribe}}}}


Posts: 1903 | Registered: Jan 2010
trynhard
♂ Member
Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 10:43 AM, May 5th (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hey Honest...
I actually felt a little suicidal for a few minutes yesterday.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts. Please know you will be happy again. Just keep telling yourself that... Having these thoughts are normal. If you tell your IC this, they will mark it on your record and might come back to haunt you later in life... Are the lite thoughts or heavy thoughts? If you start having them over and over, it is a problem and let us help you. I have had them too... In fact, just last July 4th I wanted to throw myself off the balconey... it's a horrible thought... but they happen. It is not a solution to being happy though... Just think about your kids and how much they need you... Everyday is a step toward happiness... BTW.. Today, I am not afraid to step into a domestic dispute. Just two weeks ago in a parking lot at an Menards, a man was yelling at his wife waving his arms... I think it was his daughter crying in the car. It looked heated so I pulled up right next to them... another man did too. We both watch... this fella calmed down... got in car and drove off... I've changed. I would have never done that before dday.

Dip.. you give me a chuckle.. Kinda like new quarts counter tops over here... W says... you pick.. I say no way, I like what we have... so this is your deal. I said, I will let you know what I don't like.. lol...

hurtshirley... I have a few drinks, gamble and cuss... But never cheated nor did anything too stupid. Some men have it, and some don't. Your man sounds like he does not, so I don't blame you for being mad, angry, upset... I would be too if a boundary is crossed. Have you watched the movie When Love is Not Enough: The Lois Wilson Story? I saw it not long ago and it was a good show about a drunk and founder of AA.

[This message edited by trynhard at 10:58 AM, May 5th (Wednesday)]


Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
m334455
♀ Member
Member # 26893
Default  Posted: 11:36 AM, May 5th (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Dip -- if she starts chanting "m334455" in her sleep you'll know she's on to you!

Thanks so much to ALL of you. An LTA is SO weird, it would be so hard to find others who understand elsewhere.

HOWEVER -- (and this excludes honest, because her H is a polygamist) my IC said right away "the length of the relationship is a red herring. the only thing that is important is where you go from here. One time would be just as bad as 20 years." And there is some truth to that.

Also -- I think it's harsh to assume the LTA is about love, per se. When my H and I went to see his IC, H went and spoke to him first for about an hour and his IC said that as far as affairs are concerned this wasn't that serious. He made it clear he was not condoning the behavior, but what he was trying to get me to take away from it was that my H didn't see it as a love relationship or something to replace or marriage. For him it was really a friends with benefits thing -- at least in his own head.

Of course, I see more about it because I have a bit more emotional sophistication and really it was also a triangulation; I confided in OW and so did he rather than us talking to each other AND she confided in each of us about her BH and she also was constantly telling me WH didn't treat me right (duh she's right and duh she was trying to break us up)

See, for HER it was more; but I'm not even going to go into that because it's not my problem anymore.

So LTA=Long term recovery? Yes, but sometimes maybe only for the BS. My WH said he never thought about divorcing me and that over the 20 years he'd had a relationship with OW there were sometimes 2 or 3 years at a time when he didn't see her. Also, when I asked him why he didn't marry her he looked at me like I was CRAZY. But, of course there were feelings involved. I see him moping around sometimes, I saw the hurt in his eyes when I explained to him that he wasn't the only man OW was cheating on her BH with, etc. (I had a pretty good idea she was cheating, but no proof and didn't know it was with my WH -- but after I told my WH the things she's told me about her "friend" he realized the truth that it's multiple people for her.)

Anyway -- on to the next topic

Your MC and your IC NEED TO BE DIFFERENT PEOPLE. Both my IC and his IC insist on this. We haven't seen a MC yet; neither of us are thrilled with the idea and things are too busy with the new baby in the house but I think we should go at some point even though we don't want to. For the very reason we don't want to -- we don't really communicate well.

HS -- BE HARSH. As my IC said "something will happen at some point and if you don't challenge it strongly you'll have to live this way for the rest of your life." In my case, WH was texting his ex HS GF and there were cookies for "dating" sites on the computer and I was harsh. I think it hit home for him how serious I was. Remember, all the days behind you are a "sunk cost" as economists say -- you need to only look forward; as in I know I spent three years trying to R but the only thing worse than that being wasted time is to keep wasting my time, KWIM?

As for marrying more than once not being the same love, true. So very, very true. This is why I never cared about the details of the sex like some people do. Sex is like that too; sex with different people is just different. I love having sex with WH and I loved having sex with XH. They can't compare and one is not better than the other. Similarly, my relationship with XH was the polar opposite of my relationship with WH -- and now I'd like for us to forge a new relationship that is somewhere in between.

NoFun -- about not loving fully again -- don't let this happen. Just know it will take time. I'm like that now too; but I read the saddest thing in an advice column one day -- a person wrote in to say that her H had an affair about 7 years into their marriage and the reconciled, but she always held a part of herself back from him and he just accepted it as his penance and loved her anyway. She couldn't let herself love him fully again, until the very last year of her marriage, 35 years later, when he was dying of cancer and she realized that the only thing worse than his A was that he was going to die on her. And she loved him with all her heart that one last year and the greatest regret of her life is that she wasted those other 35 years not quite giving herself completely. Man, that made me cry. So, I would say the GOAL is to, yes, love fully again -- knowing you're getting the whole person this time, warts and all, and simply let yourself know that FOR RIGHT NOW it's not time yet. It's a strange courtship, but that's what it is.


BW 38, 5 kids
Dday Dec. 2009

Posts: 4034 | Registered: Dec 2009
honesttoafault
♀ Member
Member # 27105
Default  Posted: 12:01 PM, May 5th (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Tryn: No, the thoughts were fleeting. I never really had serious thoughts about it. I think it really is just about the deep seated wish that it would all go away!!

I'm glad you got involved with that confrontation. It was a good way to do it. I also like how you are handling the counter choosing. It's brilliant!!

M3: How's the baby doing? You have so much to deal with : a new baby in the house and WH. But , you sound good, and I'm glad.

I liked what you shared about your IC said that in your WH's case the OW was "friends with benefits"
I think that is how OW started out, but now, I think that the roles are switched, and he wants me to be the "friends with benefits". Actually, I think the switch has been happening all along. I'm the disposable one now.
I have to stop concetrating on what I think WS wants. I'm only doing that to a degree because of the finances, but all this has got to be resolved.

Have a great day all!


Posts: 1903 | Registered: Jan 2010
UKgirl
♀ Member
Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 12:47 PM, May 5th (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I have to stop concetrating on what I think WS wants.
Absolutely. You must focus on what you want, what you need and the best way to go about it. Life really has to be about you and the boys from now on. Expect more hissy fits, but don’t sway. Stick to your principles. They are sound, his are not. (((((honest)))))

One time would be just as bad as 20 years.
Whoa! Nuh-uh. Infidelity hurts, we are all agreed on that. Everything is from a personal point of view, infidelity feels VERY personal whether it is ONS, STA, LTA, EA, PA, multiples, prostitutes, and, I guess I would include honest as she has a lying bigamist for a WH, married or not, he is still cheating on her and will not give up his OW. Now the HUGE difference for us is the fact that our spouses lied for YEARS. They lived a double life. I did not feel things were wrong for a short period, find out about an affair or an indiscretion lasting a few fucks in a dingy doorway – this was a full on relationship that he carried on in for years. It was a complete double life. A big part of his life I knew nothing about. A woman he managed to have contact with almost every single day for years. A woman he spent not only time in bed with, but also time walking, talking, having dinner with, washing up with, shopping with, going to the theatre with. His life with me was a LIE. HIS life was a lie. I would far rather he had an “affair” of a drunken ONS any day. I would rather he had spent a business evening in the company of lap dancers or a prostitute. I would rather he had a STA involving sex only with a colleague. I would rather he had had a MLC and gone a bit mad for a few months. I would far rather he had a fling with his ex-gf lasting a few weeks or even a few months. That I could almost understand. But five fucking YEARS? The two years before that? The other crap he still hasn’t come clean about? Tell me, which would your MC prefer if he had to choose? That his wife or gf had a ONS or a long term EA/PA? Without having to listen to his answer; I rest my case.

I think it's harsh to assume the LTA is about love, per se
It doesn’t have to be – as FNF will testify. Unfortunately for me, it did involve love. It was a “romantic” affair. I did nothing to contribute to his affair. He saw her name and was gone in a nanosecond. But that is kind of irrelevant. A LTA doesn’t have to be about love, but it does have to be about long term and habitual deceit. Willing deceit. Choosing to carry on with that deceit. If love is involved, it is just another aspect of the affair. For H it was not just about love, it was also about escape and living another life for the time he was with her. They acted as husband and wife as time went on. Heck, their affair lasted longer than some of my friends marriages!

Long term recovery? Yes, but sometimes maybe only for the BS.
The WS has had all the time for thinking while he/she was in the affair. They had YEARS to think about what they were doing and what they (ultimately) wanted. The long term recovery is for the BS and the marriage. The WS has dealt with it come d-day – they have accepted their fate and watch as we decide which way to jump. They have been through every scenario a thousand times. WH wrote so many things about his dilemma, not being able to choose. Here is a sample (sorry for you folks who have seen this before), written when he was deep in the affair.

These are the visions dipped in uncertainty,
Clouded by doubt and shrouded in a cloak
Woven with the threads of confusion, a label
That cannot be read without wiping your eyes
With the back of your shaking hand, perspiring,
Breathing erratically as you ponder which route
To take, choices to make, fearing the worst lest
By your flawed judgment others should suffer.
No sympathy for the emotional prisoner who has
All the days and all the nights for thinking,
No need to decide anything, for anyone, and,
Despite all his doubts and fears, it is not for him
To decide, for he has chosen abdication, and
There is no courage in a mind paralysed by the
The weight of its own deliberation, beaten by
failure to decide, not by making the wrong decision

And no, there was no sympathy – it was all of his own making. Fuckwit.

Dealing with a LTA is different. We are dealing with our own issues of inadequacies perceived with hindsight as well as issues that allowed the affair to trundle on as routine and habit and a warm feeling and as – well, acceptable to the WS.

Told you I was having one of “those” days!

the greatest regret of her life is that she wasted those other 35 years not quite giving herself completely.
FWH lied for over two years. Then I found out more crap and he lied about that too. Unnecessary, esp as he had all the info in front of him. I don’t want to be this brittle person I have become right now. But trust is very hard to find and forgiveness impossible. I do feel as though I have been in an emotional motorway pile up and am still undergoing physiotherapy almost four years down the line. There are those who miraculously walk away and appreciate life a hundred fold more, there are those who die on impact, there are those cut from the wreckage and I guess I am one of those. Somehow I was trapped at the scene by FWH’s lying and I eventually agreed to amputation rather than have him keep me there. So he can never have all of me. There is a bit of me missing.

Christ – I am rambling way too much. I sound drunk and I haven’t had a drink!!! Okay everyone. Go back to what you were doing!

Anyway, no more literary diarrhoea from me – I’ve got to pack to go and help 4xM friend move AGAIN. So I won’t be in till after the w/end. And FWH is away either side of me being down south. Poor baby is not happy about that. I have resisted the caustic comments and even managed a few soothing ones instead!


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3328 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
old dipstick
♂ Member
Member # 25598
Default  Posted: 2:07 PM, May 5th (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

tryn. I went through that with the granite countertops a few years ago. She narrowed it down to a few and then asked me which one I liked. After I made my pick, she said that she really liked the other one the best. After a careful recount of the votes we discovered that her choice was the most popular! I don't know why she ever asks me what I think about the home decor, she ends up getting what she likes the best anyway. I don't much give a shit about that stuff anyway. As long as I get to pick out my guns, cameras & lenses, and other manly stuff, we get along pretty good in the buying of things category. BTW, I thought the countertops we had were just fine too. After several thousand dollars and much, much, much trouble and stupid bullshit, I still wish I had the old tops back.

m3. You are right. If she mentions your name it will be a dead give away.

I am glad that you posted these thoughts but, I do have to disagree with your C about the LTA and shorter A as being the same. I agree with what UKgirl said about all this. In my case I experienced both. The LTA has bothered my much more than the others. On D-day #2 I thought that she had had a short term A with OM#2. A few days later she told me it was LTA. That fact really kicked my ass. It made this a whole new game to me. It still took awhile for it to sink in that the LTA was not just a series of ONS. (I seem to be slow to catch on with things like this) After I figured out that there was so much more involved in a LTA than other short term A, I was set back again. That is just my experience.

Your experience has to be harder to handle because of the double betrayal and how it affected you and your children. You are strong to have gone through all this.

How is the baby?

honest. It is good to hear that those thoughts were fleeting. Listen to what tryn said about that subject.

Hugs to the tribe.


Her WW 60
Me BH 60
M 36 yr
D-day#1 fall of 76 OM#1 2NS
D-day#2 summer of 89 OM#2 LTA 8 yrs OM#3 Short Term A


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