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User Topic: Betrayed Men - Part 5
Razor
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Member # 16345
Default  Posted: 11:08 AM, May 10th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

IMHO we all do the best we can. Fault can be found with any one if you seek it out. But we do the best we can in our M and with our WW and kids.

Life is a balancing act. Like walking a tight rope in strong gusty winds coming from all sorts of directions. If staying on that rope is being perfect. I say most of us fail. Balancing against work demands. Kids. Hobbies (that keep us sane). While keeping the M fresh and romantic is practically impossible.

You know what tho. Our WW were also on they own tight rope. Were they perfect? Most likely not.

And here is the thing. Both us and our WW were in crappy relationships with each other. But we were both doing the best we could. They cheated. We didnt.

So in this I wonder if there was any thing that could have prevented the A? This fall into the category of *you can not control what you S does*.

If WW had M a Saint she probably would have found fault and would have cheated also. May be there is some destiny or some thing that traps us into what we will do in life. May be WW was destined to cheat. And I was destined to be M to a cheater.

We all do the best we can. No one sets out to be a bad H or W. But we are who we are and we are all doing the best we can. If cheating is in the cards there is really nothing we can do to change that.

I read a book long ago where the author say we are like *bugs in amber*. Stuck in the moment. And our actions are destined to be what they are and they are allways going to be those actions. At each moment we are trapped by the circumstances that surround us. That there is no escaping this. Moving from one moment to the next is like being in a room with only 1 door. Circumstances of the moment form the walls of this room. We feel we are chooseing but we are not really choosing because there is only one choice.

Now I wonder if that is how it is. Sadly. It feels true. May be our lifes are predetermined and we just stroll through these interconnecting rooms stretching from birth to death. We believe we are making choices. But we are not really.

Sorry guys. I am in a strange mood today.


Forgive and forget = Relive and regret.


Posts: 3088 | Registered: Sep 2007
atsenaotie
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Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 11:38 AM, May 10th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Razor,

I think there is a lot to us moving through life just following the path, not thinking too much about if it is the best or right path. Maybe not even knowing there are other paths.

In the fallout of the A, I have stopped moving forward. I am making a choice. I am no longer continuing down this path. I found a map and I am studying options. I am doing an inventory and have determined there are some additional tools I need to carry when I start back up.

I think I found the path I want, and it will take some effort to get off the path I am on and over to the new one, but once I am there I will be happy about where I am going. I don't know if FWW can or will make the effort to change paths with me, if she does not we will quickly part and be going our seperate ways.


LTA BS 53
FWW 60
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Reconciled

Posts: 3968 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
awakening1
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Member # 27360
Default  Posted: 1:47 PM, May 10th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

There is a point where one more choice remains. Up to then our WW could back away from the PA. But at the *get naked moment* there is no turning back. I ask about HOW they could make that choice at that time. And what was they thinking then? I never got a answer.

But it seem to me this is the moment of choice. And is a important question for the WS to answer. What allow them to choose that?

This is one of the questions in Shirley Glass' "Not Just Friends" about the path of the affair that I read to WW back in December. No answer. "Why are you asking that?" she said. "

I think the truth is that, it probably felt pretty damn good. I know if the roles were reversed, and I had a few drinks in me and somehow could focus on the moment, it would feel pretty damn good. Because of her emotional walls and escapism, our sex life has been moribund for some time. Just the physical part would have felt good.

But then there is the next morning. I wouldn't have catastrophized a fling into something bigger, thinking I found my soulmate, and trying to blow up a marriage of 10 years because of it. She was vulnerable, and St. Motherfucker milked that vulnerability by telling he loved her just the way she is, and that she didn't need to change a thing about herself. Sounds a lot easier than dealing with your own FOO issues in IC, no?


Me: BH, 43
Her: WW, 41
Kids: 2 (9 and 6)
D-Day: 11/21/09. WW tried to bust up another marriage, but got dumped. OM/St. MF apparently wasn't so saintly after all.
Drafted S papers in 1/10. Filed in 1/12. Court date set for 1/13.

Posts: 79 | Registered: Jan 2010 | From: Northern VA
awakening1
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Member # 27360
Default  Posted: 1:56 PM, May 10th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

On reflection and discussion with WS, the major problems in our relationship were due to her withdrawal etc AFTER she had commenced the EA that led to the PA. She somehow twisted these post-commencement EA problems to justify her subsequent decisions and choices.

That's not to say there were not other issues in our relationship pre-A, but the issues that *tipped her over the edge* (so to speak), essentially allowed her to justify what by this stage was a self-fulfilling prophecy to have a full blown A.

This rings absolutely true to me.


Me: BH, 43
Her: WW, 41
Kids: 2 (9 and 6)
D-Day: 11/21/09. WW tried to bust up another marriage, but got dumped. OM/St. MF apparently wasn't so saintly after all.
Drafted S papers in 1/10. Filed in 1/12. Court date set for 1/13.

Posts: 79 | Registered: Jan 2010 | From: Northern VA
jasper
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Member # 28168
Default  Posted: 3:56 PM, May 10th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

In the fallout of the A, I have stopped moving forward. I am making a choice. I am no longer continuing down this path. I found a map and I am studying options. I am doing an inventory and have determined there are some additional tools I need to carry when I start back up.
Good for you, Ats. I hope I can get to this point. Right now I'm doing whatever I can do just to keep 1 foot in front of the other.

We all do the best we can. No one sets out to be a bad H or W. But we are who we are and we are all doing the best we can. If cheating is in the cards there is really nothing we can do to change that.

I read a book long ago where the author say we are like *bugs in amber*. Stuck in the moment. And our actions are destined to be what they are and they are allways going to be those actions. At each moment we are trapped by the circumstances that surround us. That there is no escaping this. Moving from one moment to the next is like being in a room with only 1 door. Circumstances of the moment form the walls of this room. We feel we are chooseing but we are not really choosing because there is only one choice.

Razor, I want to believe this so badly. I know it will help me get through some of the pain. The thing is, deep down I'm afraid that's me copping out. I know I wasn't responsible for the A, but I don't know if the A would have happened regardless.

My WW is weak, for sure. And this is not new news to me. And the fact that she had an A with my good friend shows that she is weak and lacking in some very fundamental morals. But what if I had been a different kind of husband? Would that weakness have broken through? I married her knowing she was flawed (as I am myself), and did I let her down by not being the husband she truly needed? I don't know.

None of it really matters because the A was all her. But the problems were both of us. If I had been a saint and treated her like a queen, would this have happened? Would we both be happy?

I'm in a weird place today too guys. I'm all over the place, so apologies if my thoughts are impossible to follow.

[This message edited by jasper at 3:57 PM, May 10th (Monday)]


Posts: 696 | Registered: Apr 2010 | From: New York
Ready_to_run
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Member # 20954
Default  Posted: 4:41 PM, May 10th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

She shelved you. She deliberately shelved you. It was not unconscious. She was not taken over by some alien spirit. She knew what she was doing. She WAS thinking of you when she cheated. She lied to your face about it, over and over. There is not one person who is your loving wife, and another who cheated on you.


Boy, it seems just when I am starting to soften a little and begin to think that maybe I should give her another chance even though she hasn't really done anything to deserve one. I read something like this that just smacks me in the face and knocks me back to my senses. This really hit home with me.


BH
D-Day #1 5/2003
D-Day #2 5-25-08
D-Day #3 6-23-08
Divorced 9-17-10


Posts: 716 | Registered: Sep 2008
Razor
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Member # 16345
Default  Posted: 4:45 PM, May 10th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Jasper.

But what if I had been a different kind of husband? Would that weakness have broken through?

Dont you see that you could NOT do that? You could not be a *different kind of husband* because you are the person you are. All the choices and one-way rooms that led you to be the kind of husband you are would have prevented you from being different.

Following allong with this thinking. (which I am not 100% convinced of me self)

At each moment in you life you are a bug in amber. You are in that room with only one door. Some how you believe there is a choice there. But the reality is that our life has momentum. Every moment of you life you actually have only 1 choice. This is so because of you nature as you self and allong with all the momentum with you life path.

Like. Why did we not cheat on our WW? Most of us have opportunity here and there. Even if we are not looking for it. Opportunity presents itself. Yet most if not all of us here did not cheat. Why? We can speak of morals and up bringing and religious beliefs. But what it come down to is the nature of our self and the momentum of our life. And we did not cheat because we COULD NOT cheat. That was not our 1 choice. We may have thought it was a choice at the time but the reality is that it was never a choice. Just a illusion of a choice. Because it was a choice we never would have made.

So we are that bug in amber. If our WW had M another man she would have cheated on him also. Even if that other man did every thing right that you WW say you do wrong. AND. If you had M another woman. That woman would have cheated on you also. In the end we M our WW and our WW M us because neither of us had any choice about it. We may have thought so. But we did not.

Our life is on rails. Like a train. And we sit there in our seat on that train with one of those plastic kiddy pretend steering wheels in front of us. And we think we are in a car instead of a train. We may honk the squeaky horn and turn that steering wheel as we like and feel in control. But in the end we end up in the same place.

Just some thoughts there.

Razor


Forgive and forget = Relive and regret.


Posts: 3088 | Registered: Sep 2007
Finallyawake
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Member # 21554
Default  Posted: 6:22 PM, May 10th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Every one of us has cycled back and forth in our efforts to "figure" this A business out. We feel that need to understand hoping that in finding the answer we will find some peace. We blame our WW, we blame ourself, we say there was nothing we could have done, we say that we could have been better husbands.

The minute I stopped trying to figure it out I started healing. There isn't anything to figure out if you are getting D. The facts are the facts.

She cheated
She didn't care about your feelings
She has no remorse or at least very little.

What else is there. My IC has commented that an A is the most selfish thing you can do. Because it is all about you with no regard for anyone else. All their actions afterwards (fog, blameshifting, revising history) are all focused on justifying their behavior so they can see themselves as fundamentally good. Again, more selfishness

Who loses when they do this? We do, that's who

I do believe that there is a certain amount of preordained order to our life.

But it still boils down to a choice.

When they flirted they knew it was wrong. They still did it

When they kissed them, they knew it was wrong. They still did it

And finally, when it came time to take off the clothes they absolutely knew it was wrong. THEY STILL DID IT.

You raise your kids to teach them that there are good and bad consequences to their actions. That they need to weigh these potential consequences as they make decisions about their life.

It's no different as an adult. You cheat repeatedly, lie about it, and then minimize your responsibility for it?

See ya! That is the consequence. They don't get you anymore.

And don't minimize this guys. Staying committed to your marriage is work. I know I can look in the mirror and say I was. That I tried. My dopey XW can't. She can drag her bag of dysfunction to someone else.

We all deserve better and you all know that.


On my own and a better man for it

Posts: 458 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: Phoenix
atsenaotie
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Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 7:51 PM, May 10th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Can somebody please post something to convince me that I should accept FWW having A w/ 2 men for 4+ years. I keep reading and it was her putting herself first. Her not caring, she flirted, she kissed, she did the deed. In her case I know it was no accident, she seduced them (she thought). Ssure, lots of FOO issues, but does every son or daughter of an alcoholic have an A?

Why am I still here?


LTA BS 53
FWW 60
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Reconciled

Posts: 3968 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
Finallyawake
♂ Member
Member # 21554
Default  Posted: 8:42 PM, May 10th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

atsenaotie,

I say this as gently as I can. Why do you need to accept it? If your WW is truly sorry and working to rebuild your M then I wish you well. I hope you make it.

But if she is blind to your pain then I can only offer you support.

I don't know that any child grows up to be an adult that cheats. We can get into the whole nature vs. nurture thing but in the end it all boils down to what is the right decision for you.

Will your life be better staying with someone who minimizes you or will your life be better staying with someone who cares about you?

Only you can decide what person your WW is. What we will accept is just such a slippery slope. Early in our marriage we can say that we won't accept anything less than devotion and love and respect. But over the years we might find ourself saying that affairs are ok if our WW are remorseful. We might also decide that any small bone they throw us makes it ok.

Only you can decide what is ok with you. I wish you enough strength to make that trip.

I can only say that I found myself as low I could be. I accepted so much less than I deserved. I finally chose me over her.

I hope you can find peace in your situation. Sorry if I am soapboxing a bit. I am feeling militant lately regarding my feelings over those of my XW.


On my own and a better man for it

Posts: 458 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: Phoenix
Unthinkable_Pain
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Member # 27380
Default  Posted: 8:52 PM, May 10th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Razor,

I have to respectfully disagree with your POV that our lives are completely predetermined. I don't think that's true at all. I believe everyone has free will. My WW chose to desecrate our M while I chose to honor and respect it and her. Now she is choosing to quit without even trying. But I do believe we could R if she ever comes to her senses. I don't think this has all been laid out in advance and we can have some influence on the outcomes. Now I can't control my WW, but I will always know that I acted with honor, integrity, honesty, and love throughout our M and that was my choice.

Just my 2 pennies.


Me:BH 33 (30 when she started the A)
DDay:1/24/2010
A beautiful 4yr old daughter and I am DAMN PROUD TO SAY I HAVE CUSTODY :)
Divorced 11/22/2010

Posts: 373 | Registered: Jan 2010
Finallyawake
♂ Member
Member # 21554
Default  Posted: 9:05 PM, May 10th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

UP,
honor, integrity, honesty, and love

Right on. I did the same.

FA


On my own and a better man for it

Posts: 458 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: Phoenix
jasper
♂ Member
Member # 28168
Default  Posted: 9:10 PM, May 10th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Razor, I'm not sure I believe that she would eventually have cheated regardless. I know that I have not been the best husband, and I know that some of our biggest issues come from a difficult health situation we had with our daughter when she was first born, and the way we each handled it.

I'm not saying she is justified in fucking my friend and breaking up two families because we handled a difficult situation (4 years ago) differently. But I am saying, there was immense pain, and it messed up our relationship.

She's weak, and she did something terrible to me, but I don't know if I would have ever known the depths of her weakness if I hadn't reacted differently to my own pain 4 years ago.

The good news is that my daughter is healthy now, and the fact that my wife is still holding on to it is her own issue. Due to her wekness and insecurity, she's destroyed our family, and another family we once loved.

She wasn't pre-destined to do this. She chose to do it. She made a decision, because she is fucked up in the head, and I hate her for it.

More good news is, I found out. I could have gone for the rest of my life not knowing that she had this in her.

Now I know. I'm not young, but I'm young enough to start over. And next time I'll be more careful.


Posts: 696 | Registered: Apr 2010 | From: New York
atsenaotie
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Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 10:25 PM, May 10th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Now I know. I'm not young, but I'm young enough to start over. And next time I'll be more careful.

Jasper, at age 49 I am trying to convince myself this is true for me also.

I have struggled mightily with what I could have done better. At each juncture; MC, Communication with FWW, opportunities to D, I did the best I could do. As today, twenty years ago, I could not control her, only she could. She chose to bury her true feelings, hope that things would magically get better, and soothed herself with OM. With faulty data, I could not respond appropriately.

F*ck her, her alcoholic mother, the OM who took advantage of the situation, and my naivety.
with


LTA BS 53
FWW 60
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Reconciled

Posts: 3968 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
Lotsa
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Member # 28078
Default  Posted: 11:00 PM, May 10th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

atsenaotie,

I should practice what I preach perhaps, but I wouldn't torture yourself over what you could possibly have done better.

I did the best I could do

You have appropriately reflected and reached this conclusion. You have made a monumental effort, your WW does not appear to be doing the same. You are you... There is nothing more you could have done.

As you men have so generously advised me in my short time on SI, you can't fix a WS. If they are not able or prepared to do the work required themselves, nothing we do (or do differently) is going to change the outcome.

I understand it doesn't make the shit sandwich your WW and OM have given you to eat any more palatable, but you gotta believe in you.


Posts: 880 | Registered: Mar 2010
SourCherryDrops
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Member # 25883
Default  Posted: 3:49 AM, May 11th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

What jasper is describing is fatalism (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatalism )

There are a whole bunch of philosophies that are all similar in nature and essentially deal with the certanty of what has or is about to happen...

I think one of the reasons why these philosophies hold such ground is because empericaly there seems to be a good chunk of truth in them.

I think that people often choose to take the path of least resistance, A series of poor decisions each one in itself not significantly difficult to make given the current circumstances leads you to a place where when faced with a defining decision one option is easy the other very difficult, which is why the idea that the hard option doesnt even exist is so appealing.


I did the best I could do

I agree with this, but its important to note that hopefully now you have a lot more knowledge, a better set of tools, and a realistic goal.... your 'best' now should be significantly better than it was back then.


Me BS 37, Her STBX 34, 1*ONS, 1*EA 1*PA/EA, 2*PA
Heading for D after 9 mths of R

Posts: 1468 | Registered: Oct 2009 | From: Europe
lostcause111
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Member # 19109
Default  Posted: 9:04 AM, May 11th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I may be a bit farther outand my wifes affair was brutal and all we had took me a long time to get my head straight.

One thing I have learned is that the remorseful WW on SI are rare VERY rare.

R for men often does not pan out at all like the ideal. You can work to get your needs met in the M but the remorse that is needing for real healing and to take the chip off your shoulder never will happen.

Is kid access and finaces worth this sacrifice? Who knows.

The path I am on now is as follows.

I am taking over and making decisions without consensus. What did it get me before? Cheating and lies and very poor treatment.

I look at it like this. You can give her control (read your balls) and she will bitch because she wants control without responsibility OR you can make the choices and she bitches anyways. Might as well lead.

What did allowing our wives to lead and have partnership lead us?

I do not have the drawn out discusions. What is the point anymore. Everything my WW tags on me is actually her issue. It is aplay on me and handing me her issues. She says I dont listen. BS for sure. I OVER listened and bended and contorted myself to fit her mold and she was not happy as a result absolute failure.
It's called mirroring and you will see it.

My goal is to make me happy and yes she can come along for the ride or fall by the wayside.

Bitching is just bitching and without facts ius just bitching.

I am immune to bitching now. THANK GOD.

Perfect example. I was offered to do something. She acted upset. I asked her to explain. You should know she said. I dragged it out of her and agreed with her point. Then she is like go ahead and go in a very condescending way. This is the perfect example to me that you just do what you are going to do. I held both positions in this situation and got the treatment anyways.

As you take control of yourself and the marriage be ready. WW will begin. Their are buttons that you yourself allowed to be installed in you. That is what you own and to me often the only thing I can own as I am a good husband. Do not fall for it and dont keep letting youself be twisted by the poor treatment.

Be aware most of us can be played by guilt. I signed up for something for one night and need a babysitter. I get "oh you wont see the kids that day". That would work before. I am doing nobody no harm.

Invest in yourself and quit worrying about what she is thinking or doing.

You have to believe in yourself and realize the messages the affair sent you are BS.

You were in the marriage trying despite having an enemy right next to you. I know where my heart my mind my goals were and after d-day I am still going to hand over that power?

You are crazy. Live your life for you and become the best most powerful memebr in the relationship and hopefully your example is a good one to follow and I hope she does. If not I will have outgrown my own disfunction and will have to move on.

Is their really any other choice? Things cannot continue on for us as they are.

Live again and be you again.


Posts: 934 | Registered: Apr 2008
Razor
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Member # 16345
Default  Posted: 10:25 AM, May 11th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Funny. Here we are arguing philosophy like a bunch of collage boys.

As Sour say this thinking is called fatalism. And as with most things like this I dont completely agree with it but do believe there is a germ of truth in it. And so inspection of it has value.

Jasper. You say that you dont believe you WW would have cheated on you any way. And you say you did things badly in you M when it came to you DD health problem. Listen. That wasnt responsible for you WW cheating.

There is a HOW and a WHY about cheating. Most WW that I read on here seem stuck on the WHY answers.

And WHY answers are allways looking out side they self. WHY answers are like FOO issues and boundary problems and attention addiction and sex addiction and the most common WHY answer of all is *marriage problems* (which translates in to *my H made me do it*). And I think these things are helpful for the WS to under stand and look at. But I think that they oftimes take the form of blame shifting.

I think it is more valuable for the WS to look for the HOW answer. HOW answers are allways about looking IN SIDE they self. A HOW question is *how did I make that decision?* What was the process in other words.

IMHO there is usually some thing about they core self that allowed them to make that decision. A initial slant in they personality such that they allways make the easy decision and avoid responsibility when times are tuff. Then this initial slant in they personality gains momentum thru they life. Taking that easy decision becomes the way they allways do things.

So I say that you DD health problems and the way you handled it might be the WHY answer for you WW. But this is NOT THE HOW answer.

And because of the momentum and you WW character flaws. If you DD had good health allways and that issue never came up. She would have eventually cheated anyway - there just would have been another WHY.

Jasper. I have spoken to many many many WS in the past 13 years of dealing with this. And I recall specifically asking. *was there a point some where in you M that if you H had done some thing different. that you would not have cheated?* They all answered that there was nothing we could have done to prevent it. That they were so broken that really they were a train wreck waiting to happen. The cheating would have happened sooner or later. If it was not one excuse it would have been another.

Jasper. And every one else here. You are not responsible for you WW decision. There was nothing you did that made it happen. Our WW cheated because they were broken from the start. There was nothing we could do to prevent it.

Razor


Forgive and forget = Relive and regret.


Posts: 3088 | Registered: Sep 2007
wincing_at_light
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Member # 14393
Default  Posted: 10:53 AM, May 11th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I agree with this, but its important to note that hopefully now you have a lot more knowledge, a better set of tools, and a realistic goal.... your 'best' now should be significantly better than it was back then.

I hear what you're saying here, and I even agree with it in the sense that we all know more today than we did yesterday, and so can make different choices.

But, look, I'm 39 years old. I had my share of trials, traumas and difficulties prior to my wife's A. It wasn't like the A happened in an otherwise blissfully ignorant utopian bubble. As the old saw goes, this wasn't my first rodeo.

Want to know a secret? I didn't learn fuck all about dealing with trauma from infidelity that I didn't already know before. Infidelity re-focused my priorities to include remembering those coping mechanisms. It didn't teach me new stuff...because I already knew the stuff. I just hadn't needed it for awhile.

I was a good spouse. My wife will tell you as much. I wasn't perfect. Neither was she. Part of being married is accepting those imperfections and annoyances as part of the wonder and joy of building a life with another human being.

Those issues didn't become "problems" until she was looking to justify cheating (even subconsciously). Her skewed perspective made the normally-forgivable foibles of being a different human being loom larger than life.

And honestly, I see that a great deal on SI. I see WS's in the wake of D-day trying to share the blame with their BS by pointing out all of these "marriage problems"...and too often, I see the BS launch themselves into trying to repair what amounts to their *personality* because some fuckwad with an agenda of self-justification tells them they're bad/broken/responsible/and-shouldn't-you-feel-bad.

I'm not even saying this "manipulation via self-help" is conscious. It's part of foggy thinking, part of still being in the mode of justifying the affair.

Note: I'm excepting legitimate issues like pre-existing physical abuse, addiction, etc. But I've also had it up to about my eyeballs with the "fact" that every flippin' WS I've ever met was apparently married to an emotionally or psychologically abusive spouse with heinous FOO issues quite happily for 20+ years, then got some strange dick and suddenly sees their BS for the horrible person they always were. Every girl I ever dated had a list of horrible, abusive boyfriends as long as her arm. 90% of the women I know with ex-husbands describe them as emotionally unavailable psychological abusers. I've met enough of these guys in my life to know that they're just guys. People need a self-justification to bail on relationships and feel like it's not their fault just like they do to have affairs. When so many WS's are picking apart their BS's, they're using that same dynamic.

I've told this story before, but it bears repeating. During the week of D-day, my wife gave me a huge list of all the things I needed to change about myself if our marriage was to continue: the things that had driven her to infidelity. You know what I did? I ignored every damn one of them. In fact, I got even worse at a number of them.

Within six months, she was telling me that I was, once again, the best husband ever, accepting that the affair was 100% her fault, doing the "what the fuck was I thinking?" thing. I'm at least partially convinced that this "reality" that I was partly responsible because I was such a fuck-up neglectful husband crumbled because I refused to accept it or validate it.

We all grow. We all live. None of us are perfect. My wife sure as fuck wasn't perfect pre-D-day, and yet I wasn't running around sticking my dick into holes in the wall. Some of her imperfections drove me nuts. Some of the resentments I carried from our previous marriage were legitimate. Some of her resentments were legitimate.

Big. Fucking. Deal.

I've got resentments about things my parents did when they were raising me, but I still love the hell out of them. I haven't asked them to completely remake themselves to my satisfaction because they made some parenting decisions I disagreed with.

Don't get too tied up in this notion of making yourself a better husband. That should be just part of your daily life. It's also completely independent of infidelity. If you'd sprung from the womb perfect in every way, your wife wouldn't have wanted you anyway (and you probably wouldn't have given her a second look), so stop letting her beat you to death with your imperfections to bring you down to her level.

Anyone who is fairly recently out from D-day (easily within the first year) should be looking at anything their wife says through the simple filter of "What is the benefit to her of bringing this up now that wasn't there before D-day?"

And I'd say you shouldn't even bother taking it seriously until she's repeated the same theme at least three different times.


Machiavellian idiot savant

Posts: 6690 | Registered: Apr 2007 | From: Indiana
Alex1
♂ Member
Member # 26221
Default  Posted: 11:13 AM, May 11th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Men,
it is great to have a place where our particular slant in things can be explored and I appreciate reading your posts.
I don't know if I am lucky or cursed. I *believe* my W is committed to R. She now refers to the OM as a "wuss". She is remorseful, patient, loving and attentive towards me. She is doing *everything right*, she booked us a romantic night away this weekend.
The thing is, I feel apathetic 1/3 of the time. Madly in love with her 1/3 and then punishing and resentful the remaining1/3. WTF?
Where is the balance? I KNOW how I should handle this but screw up constantly. However, I am beginning to emerge from the depths and finding scattered moments when I don't think about her A. I am have a growing urge for an A of my own and this disturbs me.
As you can tell, I am very conflicted.
Good luck to you all.

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