I didn't start really feeling better until the big-bore anger stage hit and I could just be pissed off 98% of the time I wasn't sleeping. Everything feels much less conflicted when your only honest emotional state is "angry and disgusted."
I see the BS launch themselves into trying to repair what amounts to their *personality* because some fuckwad with an agenda of self-justification tells them they're bad/broken/responsible/and-shouldn't-you-feel-bad.
Spot on WAL. I listened to this same BS after each of my XW's EA's and finally her PA. It always followed the same pattern.
What's even more amusing now that we are D is how my XW cannot stand that I can be civil and refuse to engage her beyond our children. She looks to manufacture drama and sets up issues to try and get me to respond with a "how can I make this better" routine.
I don't bite anymore and she really does not know what to do.
My point is just to piggyback on WAL and emphasize that you don't need to respond to this bullshit of how YOU need to fix yourself or the situation so your WW does not cheat again. Especially when six months ago your WW was telling you how great you were and now is telling you how fucked up you are.
Here is the thing. When I look at what I did in the M was my heart and my actions generally in the right place? yes. Did I treat my wife with kindness and respect and love? yes.
It was 95% her. I say fuck the 50/50 BS in the relationship. I did the best I could being alone. And you think you could have been 99.9 percent perfect and the one thing like left the toilet seat up was enough.
Believe in you if you want the best chance to make the marriage work or if you decide to get out.
And hell yeah its going to be hard. Anything in life worth a hill of beans requires the hardest path.
Lets compare, shall we;
I like my booze, he is a crackhead.
I worked 50 to 60 hours a week, he is a carnie.
I paid the bills, he lives with his mother.
I may not have paid enough attention to her, he liked to beat her up.
I didn't always take her to my buddies' places, he had his friends come over and have a go at her.
Wow, I guess I do need fixing.
what I don't understand is why ww is still here-OM was a law school grad, lives in a ritzy part of the big town, is director of some state agency over about a dozen people. He's worth 4-10 times what I am, & he's all GQ at that. I offered many times to load up her & all her shit & take her to him.
oh yeah, he's married too...
I know I wasn't responsible for the A, but I don't know if the A would have happened regardless.
To all of you that think this way-- what would you have done differently? And how would those actions have prevented an A? Truly a million dollar question.
I am certain there was absolutely nothing I could have done to stop my xw and her exploration into life events. All (yes, all) of her explanations/excuses were complete bull poohey.
The profound thing about simplicity of motive and life is truthfulness. Truth about the situation and ourselves gives us strength no deciet or controlling manipulation can change.
The old saying "be true to thineself" is and will be the sign of a strong person settled in their own skin.
I have found that at the begining of a relationship they find great love for the real person. We attract them to us. Then over time they want to change us and as we give into that change we becomes liars to ourselves and they in turn begin to hate us
There is great diginity in being ourself no matter the outcome of any situation that confronts us.
I am not going out and chase women because she chased after a man or men. What she has done or what she says about me does not change me. It only reveals what she has become.
When they look into the mirror it is to hard for them to accept what they see so they want to reflect/deflect that onto us. It is amazing how in that particular area of life they are completely consistant. Tell them thier weakness and within the day or the next day they will make that weakness yours.
I beleive they got were they are because they didnt allow themselve to recieve from us. We have wisdom they need but they refuse it or take it as judgement rather than from the point of us watching over them. They then rather than change reflect it or deflect it back on us making us what they really are. They refuse to change because they dont respect our care for them and dont recieve our wisdom on their behalf.
[This message edited by Honest Intent at 2:35 PM, May 11th (Tuesday)]
Got up, cleaned off, and moved on!
Engaged at age 58. WOW! What a ride! What a life!
Those issues didn't become "problems" until she was looking to justify cheating (even subconsciously). Her skewed perspective made the normally-forgivable foibles of being a different human being loom larger than life.
Another observation that’s maybe just my wife. She was strongly against and hated adulterers. So for her to do this against such a strong belief, she needed me to be a real bad monster. I knew I wasn’t that bad, but she was good at pushing the right buttons. Because we had been so close, she knew (even subconsciously) what she could do to drive me to the edge and keep me there. I still see her revert back into trying to make me the bad guy... I won’t tolerate it and call it out. I’ve owned my mistakes, corrected my own selfish actions. I don’t blame her for my mistakes. Like me, she had a hand in getting me to the edge, but I was the one who made my choice (in my case, my sin was to escape into computer gaming).
I shocked her though. Part of who I am happens to be a refusal to give up something I’m passionate about without a fight. I didn’t dump her immediately after DD, nor did I beg or plead for her to stay. I laid out the D option or the R option. She picked the R and I started learning. Once I figured out what had really happened to me, I grew stronger and started seeing her in a whole new light. I started reacting to her much differently. I denied her the monster. I denied her the wimp who cowers in the corner. I just became me again... I stopped trying to be who she wanted me to be, I stopped trying to react to her in a way that wouldn’t rock the boat, I just stopped being anything or anyone but myself. Worked wonders. Over a period of months, I was that guy she fell in love with (before years of her “molding” me made us both resentful). Now, she’s seeing the light about what she stands to lose.
She’s still denying to herself that she has her own deep issues, but knows that she can’t blame me for her actions. I did not make her do jack squat. It’s like watching a lost person wander aimlessly. Parts of me really want to help her, but I’m older and wiser now and know that if she just does what I say, she won’t really change at all; been there, done that once already. She’s got to find these issues in her head and want to fix them herself. Ever so slowly she too is starting to see how her actions pretty much insure she’ll never find what she wants and is slowly taking steps in the right directions. But man is it a long slow wandering path....
Boy has that been our life lately.
It's taking my wife 20 years, 13 jobs and two returns to school to just realize that the anxious feeling she gets at work isn't her job, it's her.
My WW's OM was a medical doctor...oh, did I mention he used to be her doctor? She was/is completely infatuated with the guy. I am sure she would be with him still to this day had he not dumped her once his fiance found out about the A.
At the time I thought WW was upset about getting caught in her affair and the hurt she had caused me. Looking back now I realize that she was really just devastated about the A ending and losing OM.
Someone please tell me why I value myself so little that I am still holding out a flicker of hope for R?
[This message edited by Ready_to_run at 6:06 PM, May 11th (Tuesday)]
"True nobility isn't about being better than any one else. It's about being better than you used to be." -Wayne Dyer
They need us to become the monster so they can face themselves in the mirror. Excuses and justifications are just their way to give themselves permission. And in the process, they do make us a monster.
Excellent point... and so very true.
Reflecting upon my situation, it was this very Monster transformation process attempt by my xw that sealed the fate of our M. Her insults, lies and accusations and diatribe cut into my soul much deeper than any of her adulterous actions. Ya know, if I had of only had to deal with the A itself we may of had a chance.
Her demonizing, gas-lighting and blame-shifting did me in emotionally. Couple that with my no second chance beliefs, her lack of remorse and her desire to seek greener pastures and I now find myself a single dad.
And I survived.
I appreciate what you guys are saying about not accepting everything that our WS's list as causes for their Infidelity. That in all reality if they really do exist then there is more than a good chance that they were also present pre-A back when everything was honky-dory.
What Mighty said also applies directly to my FWW. She claimed that i was distant and emotionally removed from her and that me not spending enough time with her contributed to her infidelity. However me withdrawing and becoming introverted is a trait of mine that ive had since long before i meet her, and it was her depression and subsequent withdrawl that triggered my own reaction, that triggered my own withdrawl, (yes i too found solace in gaming... a refuse that id also used earlier in my teens). Unfortunately my reaction caused a positive feedback loop that caused each of us to withdraw more, my response seek solace in gaming, hers with her friends.... and then eventually 'male friends'...
The thing is... now i want to change my own pattern of pre-programmed behaviour in this regard, because changing it will hold me in good stead no matter what. Yes its rather sad that it took this happening and her claiming i was emotionally distant and withdrawn for me to actually stop and take a look at how i reacted, to do the self investigation to recognise how i reacted..... but changing it will still benifit me, and if she benifits too then so much the better.
For me this was still my first real rodeo ride, Ive learnt a lot about myself, my wife, what i want in a relationship, and things i need to do to achieve that.
Sure im still bound to screw up, but im giving it my best.
On an unrelated note, I'm putting together my submission package for the novel I wrote about my experiences with infidelity (largely not biographical, but definitely about a guy dealing with infidelity.)
If any of you are interested in looking at it, you can download the text here:
I've crammed it into a PDF without any of the standard manuscript formatting, so it should be relatively easy on the eyes.
Oh, and you'll need this password/secret word to decrypt it on download:
I'm interested in hearing what any of you might have to say since it's a story about guys dealing with cheating wives.
(And if you don't want to comment, that's okay, too.)
And really and it took me a long time to get their.
In a GOOD way fuck my WW. I do not need to worry about her or the marriage. I have let go. It is up to her to earn her way back in.
My only goal is to be me. She can come along I do want our kids to be with us 24x7 but if not she needs to fall by the wayside.
None of what my wife thinks or does really matters till she wons her shit. I just dont care anymore to fix her. A job I never should have taken.
I hate reading my own formatted manuscripts because there's just no non-clunky way to do it without printing out the pile of paper, and even then the pile of paper is unwieldy, so I'm not going to have my feelings hurt if the slog isn't worth it in the end.
BS (me) 47
1 son 11
D Day 23 Dec 09
Admitted to Affair 17 Jan 10
April 08 told her I want a Divorce
June 2010 Moved
eta: I read the first few paragraphs before I left to work.....
Guys, for those of you who have been through D, I need some advice:
I've realized that I am still emotionally reliant on my WW.
As much as I hate her, and hate what she has done, when we go to my DD's counseling it turns into some sort of weird MC for us. And I start to doubt myself, because it has turned into re-written history, and also because she brings up issues that were real, and that I am truly sorry for.
I find myself in this situation where it is hard for me to distinguish between the two. She's very crafty
How do I keep myself above it, and out of the emotion, when we are talking about the child we have together? My first reaction is to just claim responsibility for a situation to shut WW up, and figure out, on my own, how to handle. I know that's not the right approach. It just makes me resent WW more.
How do you figure out how to deal with a child , when you know she can't be exposed to what really happened, and is in such pain herself?
I just want to keep her as healthy as possible, and keep myself as positive as possible. And I think my WW's goals are the same, but I feel like it requires me to forget about the A, and put aside all my anger in order to make my DD's life normal. Meanwhile, WW is carrying on like the A is a good thing, and the path she always should have taken.
Right now, the only way I can see that we will keep my daughter's life normal and happy is if I continue to be a total pussy and let her control the discussion with the psych. How do I adjust this?