In many instances, a broken woman is a broken woman is a broken woman. Regardless of the if's, and's, and why's leading up to the cheating, the reasons are all the same. Just more justifications for the betrayal in an avoidance to face the person in the mirror and discover the truth.
Several things have been going through my mind over the past two months and I keep coming back to them:
1) I dont deserve this, no matter what she thinks or says. My complete dismissal of her "excuses" are the only way to bring her to look at the woman in the mirror
2) I do still love her, but reconciliation is 100% her issue to own and demonstrate through actions for the rest of our time together, whether that time amounts to another month or the rest of our lives. Thats not to say that I dont have areas of the marriage that I dont need to work on. But the ball is completely in her court.
3) If it does come down to D, I've been down that road before and my oldest kids and I survived. I am sticking it out to see if she is willing to make true, meaningful change and will stay as long as I believe her to be striving towards such. But if it comes down to it and things dont change or they revert back to the status quo, then I'm out of here.
4) And to re-emphasize what some other wise folks on this thread have said, for those of you riding the fence "for the kids", KIDS ARE RESILIENT AND WILL FIGURE THINGS OUT ON THEIR OWN AND BOUNCE BACK STRONGER AND FASTER THAN YOU THINK. Actually, they will most likely be the FIRST to bounce back and realize happiness. By sticking around a shitty situation you are most likely damaging them, not helping.
This thing I am married to is not my wife, and tomorrow would be our 22nd anniversary.
In the last 12 months, she hasn't touched me, hasn't shared a laugh, even a minute of closeness (all my fault of course)
It has become clear this isn't "living" ... this is "waiting to die"...
Hotel Hell, no more!
[This message edited by BrokenHead at 3:33 PM, September 9th (Thursday)]
This is the first time I've bitched about CS at all.
Actually I think in the situations where there is joint custody and all expenses are split 50/50 it is a joke to call it "child support." It's fucking maintainance!
I am currently living in an apartment while my stbxww is only concerned about getting enough "child support" so she can get her mortgage paid for every month in the new house we built while she was having her affair. Complete bullshit...but I'm not bitter.
"True nobility isn't about being better than any one else. It's about being better than you used to be." -Wayne Dyer
I initially got the shaft without the benefit of any lube in my divorce to my ex. I had paid her way through a four year nursing school, and she's a VERY well paid RN.
In our divorce, she did not return any paperwork or consult an attorney; she was in denial for almost two years that I was ever going to get a D (even though I was in the Army and geographically separated from her sorry ass anyways)
So my lawyer was worthless and collecting large sums of money from an out of state client, and when I finally got out and went to the hearing, the judge stuck my ass with $807 with 50/50 legal, and 25/75 custodial.
$807 / mo even though I was the only one carrying health insurance, dental, the only one buying their clothes, etc. etc. etc.....all while her ass was making 25k more a year than me, and taking OM out of town once a month to Hawaii, Vegas, Mexico, etc....yeah, I got the kids above the 25%; she got a baby sitter, but I got to spend great times with my kids.
Soooo......one day she gets super beligerent and calls me up to demand $1600 / mo C/S. I asked her what she was smoking, she was delusional and apparently a crack head. By that time I was remarried, had one more kid, and a step son whose donor wasnt in the picture and still doesnt pay support.....
So, I went down to the local child support agency, and opened up a case against myself. This meant that instead of direct depositing C/S/ straight out of my check into her account, I now paid the state, and when their lazy asses got around to it, they would pay her.
Then I opened up a request for modification, and when the numbers were run they actually came out to $357 / mo, NOT 1600, NOT 807.....after two months she sobered up and came to her senses. I closes the case and I now pay a mutually agreed to $565 mo.
The rules ARE rigged, but you have to learn how to navigate through them to protect yourself and your kids.
[This message edited by HurtingandLost at 4:15 PM, September 9th (Thursday)]
Every time I read a post like yours, I get inspired.
Stay strong brother. Be prepared for the mega manipulation to begin.
This thing I am married to is not my wife
A good way to put it. In my WW's case she has not only shriveled up emotionally but physically as well. It's like the poison in her is eating at her insides. Best of luck in your situation.
I have an angle most guys here do not have. I was jightime mommy while wife worked at night. I have been with DD as much as wife if not more.
If I D I have a STRONg arguement for 50/50.
And that is the point I want to make. It may take some time but my through recomendation to all who want max time with kids and justifiable CS is really start spending mega time with your kids and document it.
Their are other reasons as well. You will feel better. I swear to God I owe my kids as I was so mind fucked on d-day my only joy was them. I thought no matter how bad it was I must at least play happy for them and eventual I did become happy when I did all the things I do with them from going to parks to bedtime.
You have to get heavily involved and enjoy it. As I am still in I can take a vacation from her BS at anytime by hanging with the kids.
Also pay close advice to HurtingandLost advice. Their is much you can do yourself that is free of cheap and just takes a bit of time.
I will if I end up in D land never accept less than 50/50 no matter what and I believe every father should fight for that right!
Current status of M/R whatever the fuck it is. Don't talk about it. It is behind us. Be nice to each other - This is what she wants, although I find two days ago she is reading the email that OM's W sent in return to mine, she snuck into my emails after I had told her multiple times that she could read it, I would give it to her etc.. in the spirit of our new M built on TRUTH.
I have to believe she has stopped the A, as we have had such a hard time lately, my anger, my sadness, the arguments. She would be mad to stick through it all if she was still involved with him. It would be so much easier for her to walk away. Financially, emotionally etc.
I just cannot do a thing to make her understand what she needs to do, there is nothing, she will not read anything, she will not talk about her feelings 'they are my feelings and I am working through them' tells me it is over between her and POS (she still works with him). Wont do IC. If I play nice, she kinda plays nice back. If I bring up not even the A but her lack of empathy and actions to show me she is sorry and changing, she shuts down, goes and sulks and tells me leave me alone. Fuck off... etc..
The pity party is in full effect with her though.
I am a failure.
Lower your expectations of me.
I have failed everyone.
I am a bad person.
No one cares about me.
So forth and so on.
I left last night as it was getting pretty tense and even one night away from my child killed me. The look on his face when I came home made me really not want to go to the D stage. So what's left for me, get IC, play nice, let her have everything she wants and pray that she wont do this to me again and maybe just maybe one day she will actually get what the hell she has done?
Sorry for the rant guys, I am just as usual stuck between a rock and hard place and it feels good to write it down. I hope the IC helps, it better for the price of it :) Im doing my best to look after myself and become a better person but damn it's hard when you live like this. Someone above mentioned respect and I think that is really the crux of the matter, there is very little respect from her.
[This message edited by zombieman at 1:16 AM, September 11th (Saturday)]
Brother, you married my WW's twin sister, didnt you?
Mine doesnt "get it" either. It apparently all comes down to how I need to get past this for "us" to work. She can't understand how I dont think she loves me or truly understands the meaning of love. She doesnt understand why I went and had DNA tests done on my daughters....Thank GOD that much of my marriage is true...
I called for I/C today as well as this shit is screwing up my head. I tried to broach the subject on two occasions now with the WW and get her take as to whether or not I'm a whack job, becuase I feel like one and think I need something close to a straight jacket and padded room. She minimizes it all and tells me its all in my head and I'll be fine....(sound familiar?)
Hang in there, I'm hoping IC and perhaps MC down the road will help my situation. I, unfortunately, do still love my wife and am going to stick my sitch out for a while longer.
Good luck Brother
[This message edited by played-a-fool at 7:31 AM, September 13th (Monday)]
Trust is difficult to earn but so very easy to lose. It's a gift that should be treasured and guarded.
Love knows no limit to its endurance, no end to its trust, no fading of its hope; it can outlast anything. Love still stands when all else has fallen.
Do your WW's feel this way about you? If not, don't you deserve more?
Confront the dark parts of yourself, and work to banish them with illumination and forgiveness. Your willingness to wrestle with your demons will cause your angels to sing. Use the pain as fuel, as a reminder of your strength.
A measure of your strength is not the absence of pain, but the willingness to overcome adversity despite the odds.
Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength, while loving someone deeply gives you courage.
Does your WW's give you the inspiration to have courage? If not, don't you deserve to feel that way?
Do not let your fire go out, spark by irreplaceable spark, in the hopeless swamps of the approximate, the not-quite, the not-yet, the not-at-all. Do not let the hero in your soul perish, in lonely frustration for the life you deserved, but have never been able to reach. Check your road and the nature of your battle.
The world you desired can be won. It exists, it is real, it is possible, it is yours.
The world is as we make it. It really is that simple. Cast off this needless complexity.
Men, deep down you are a finely forged piece of iron. Find that strength and become the leader you know yourself to be.
[This message edited by oftenwrong at 8:47 AM, September 13th (Monday)]
I'm reaching critical mass, and seeing more and more of the things I dont like in her everyday. I do still love her but if I dont start seeing some forward momentum soon I may have to exit PRONTO. For my sanity's sake.
That my friend is a personal decision. As my IC/MC said, it is up to me to determine if she is making progress quickly enough. What can you tolerate, it sounds like you are near wits end, but for so soon after dday I do not believe that to be unusual.
It took my FWW 6+ months to really begin to get into remorse, and this is an area of continuing development.
In an earlier post you phrased it well,
...to see if she is willing to make true, meaningful change and will stay as long as I believe her to be striving towards such...
My personal benchmark is if I get 2 consecutive months of feeling we are regressing or not making progress, then I give myself permission to pull the plug. If we go 4 years from dday without substantial R, I again feel free to D. I have had one full bad month to date, but not 2.
Counseling may improve my outlook, I have an appointment this week.
I am almost at 3 years.
I have done better for me and am inside much better.
The marriage still sucks despite mounds of effort.
I think i just dont care anymore.... thats when it gets real scary.
Looking back on my own situation I can say that I think that is excellent advice. If a WS can't defog in a month then they are cake-eating...whether they are still with the OP or not.
I waited longer...much longer and I now realize it was because I didn't think I deserved better and I also felt guilty whenever I would try to leave her. So I had some issues myself I had to (and am still) resolve.
Do what YOU need to do to heal. She doesn't get to dictate anymore. She lost that privilige.
If you need to take 3 months let it be 3 months....if its 3 years then its 3 years.
The important thing i think is that your honest with yourself, are you waiting for remorse or too scared to go?
Personally during my attempt at R I was happy that we were making progress, sure i would have liked it to be faster, but it was progress, I actually think that if i hadnt pushed to keep up the rate of progress then id probably be going home to our house tonight and not my appartment.
Dont get me wrong, i dont regret that i kept pushing, i did and im here now, who knows what 'could' have happened. It could have worked out like WAL, she coming right on her own, or it could have ended with a whole new round of DDays, and a whole lot more pain for me.
hindsight is great but i dont believe we can apply carte blanc rules to every situation, Yes there are lots of similarities in the outward behaviours, and how our W's respond after DDay, but the core drivers of their behaviour are as varied as us.
Recognizing this point IMHO can only be done in the rear view mirror. You look back a few months and finally realize that no more movement is going on from the WS. They have reached they comfort level. And think they have done enuf.
You can see it as no real change. They stop looking at they self for why the A happen. They stop asking how you are doing. They stop helping with triggers. Basically they start rug sweeping. Because they feel the remaining tatters of the A issues are not significant and so can be just swept aside.
Remember that more WS are happy in the M after a A than are BS. So they will reach a time when they are happy in the M and just want the A not spoken of any more. And they want the M and they life to return to what it was pre-A. Transparency some times go away and some pre-A behaviors return.
This is the point of decision for us. Its not a set time. But more of a observation by us that this is as good as it is going to get.
This is the time we need to consider. Is THIS enuf? We can see at this point that THIS is all we are going to get from WS. The rest of our healing is on us. So was it enuf? Will we feel good about our self by staying in this M? Or should we cut and run?
She is now back with OM and we are soon to be D. I feel like I wasted 2 years of my life and lost a lot of respect for myself in the process. Certainly no easy answers and whatever choices are made there will be pain. It sucks.