And there's also the double edged sword of her admission that it had nothing to do with any feelings for the OM. If not him, it would have been someone else. So that alone, on one hand, makes me feel better knowing that I'm not "competing" if you will against with another guy. I'm not lacking.
On the other hand, I wonder who and what in the hell did I marry? If he didnt matter, and I obviously didnt matter at that point, then where are her boundaries or self respect that would allow her to hop on the first swinging dick walking by?
it's the lying and the physical.
The only place during my story that it made a huge difference is for how long and how many different ways she lied to me over and over...... It wasn’t just a couple months. It had been for the entire marriage. She learned I wouldn’t react if I didn’t know; something she learned young. So, any time she did anything she thought I might question or made her look bad; SHE LIED OR OMITTED IT. If she got a inappropriate joke from a male co-worker... Delete! Mighty won’t know and worry... A co-worker hits on her; she turns him down, but still maintains a friendship with him thinking “He was drunk...” Let’s not tell Mighty. She broke a plate; She’ll lie about that too... maybe it was the dog? She fucks up at work and gets reprimanded: Mighty would just worry.. Omit.
The lies for me have gone on throughout my entire relationship with her.... That was the shocker. That is why she absolutely can not be trusted again without a whole new long history. To rather suddenly figure out that the one person you were closest to was manipulating your impressions so much to simply avoid being seen in a bad light, no matter how insignificant it was... well, it just fucks up entirely who you thought you knew.
Jesus Mighty! Why are you still with her? Now, we at least know these things about her. She is working with IC to figure out why she does this. It’s hard to break. She just learned as a small girl that to show weakness would equal rejection. Being insecure (another issue), just adds to the lying and embellishment. So, now she’s trying to go against the grain and change herself.
It’s odd how childhood crap affects you. Me for instance, learned that I had to excel to get attention from my father. Mediocrity wasn’t acceptable. So, I also covered up my own shortcomings and would quite frankly “fake it” to be something I was not. So in my marriage, I would forsake my own needs to be what I thought my wife wanted; a super dad, a super husband, etc.. I thought that would make me lovable. That didn’t work out so hot. It hard to break that pattern too......
As others have posted, for me at least, with a PA there is a definite line in the sand that was crossed the moment there was that first inappropriate physical contact with POSOM. It is at this moment that she should have listened to the "Danger, Will Robinson!" voice going off in her head and ended it rather than spend nearly every waking minute of the next 12 months on ways that she could please OM or spend time with the POS.
The way i explain this is yes i a do fit the other typical male sterotype of being able to seperate sex and emotion but i also expressing my bond with my partner in part through the act of sex. This is the typical exposed male view of sex, and yes it fits me well.
I think it is the second part of this that causes the initial observation. That we project that onto our W's, and thus for many Men the physical act is so disturbing. In my case it is the first part that applies. I am able to project the seperation of emotion from phsyical act onto my W's behaviour. For me its not that she had sex with OM, its that she told one of them she loved him, that she no longer had any love for me, and yes that she decieved and lied to me. Its these things that hurt me.
Call me deviant if you will, but i would have had no problem going to a swinger club with my wife, because there it is just about sex, and not about any emotional attachment.
I think my attitude also helped me to 'get over' or deal with the lies and mistruths my W told me about the physical acts that she did perform with her OM. In general i just assumed the worst, i was ok with that, what (apparently...you can never be really sure) actually happened was mostly significantly tamer than my initial assumption.
I understand that for many the physical act is incredibly hard to get over, That the mind movies, the imagery can make you almost physically sick. There is no shame for us in any of this, no matter how we deal, or cant deal with the aftermath. If the fact that some other guy had his dick, tounge or even his hand there is a dealbreaker for you, It doesnt make you any more or less than anyone else.
I think both men and women value most what we have to jump thru hoops for.
If a woman wants meaningless sex. She can walk up to just about any man and say *You. Me. Lets bump uglys.* And its a done deal.
But if a woman wants a deep emotional connection. She has to work harder for that.
We OTOH dont value the *deep emotional connection* shit as much. For me this is so because I know the guy is just talking her up just to get into her pants. Talk is cheap in my book. Sure we can become emotionally intimate with women - but the goal is allways sex. The rest is just talk. So that fluffy hearts and flowers shit is easy to find for a guy.
For us sex is what we jump thru hoops for. Its like women lay out a obstacle course we have to run. We have to work to get it.
In a sense we are all capitalists. The commercial aspect of relationships is that we pay with what we value less for some thing we value more. For me. Talk is cheap but sex is gold. So it is a good deal IMO if I can get gold by paying with some thing that I regard has less value. Women - because sex is easy to come by - value it less. So they pay for a emotional connection (attention etc) with sex. This is the same good deal in they eyes because they are buying some thing they value more with some thing they value less.
So what we work for we value the most. This is pretty much true of every thing in life.
So it hurts more when our spouse give away to another what we had to work so hard for. It is a thing we earned and was supposed to be exclusively ours.
You could have been writing about my life. The only difference is that mediocrity didnt get me any good attention from either parent.
AMEN. You said it perfectly
I have seen lately a lot of talk about wifes issues.
In the end you can never fix them it is up to them. You can only support them.
And to be honest in a way who cares about the A?
here me out for just a minute.
To me the real question is the now minus the affair. If you met some new girl would you even stay with her if she acted exactly how your wife does? I know for sure HELL NO I WOULDNT.
Than waht is wrong with me?
I have been thinking about that a lot lately as this status quo does not work for me.
I no longer try fixing shit unless asks and tolerate no BS.
I am still nice to her despite this.
But I am starting to think my 201st talk is not going to fix a thing.
She doesnt care and that is her problem and why she is losing me.
But waht I am going to try to do after so far out (almost 3 years) is step away on my own 180.
I have no rounds left at all and all I can do to deal with my resentment for how she loved OM and would do anything for him but wont barely lift a finger for us or the kids is showing her what life will be like without me.
She will have a smaple starting now.
In the end I am saying her issues are hers and all the reaons you come up with for poor behavior are BS. They are not acting how a wife should and that is the only aspect that should concern you. The whys are her own.
Dont fix things she has to fix herself and dont make M too easy. She needs to earn your love and currently the account is in the negative.
[This message edited by lostcause111 at 11:25 AM, October 21st (Thursday)]
What you are doing is detaching. And really it is the only sane thing most of us can do. Whether we stay with our cheating WW or not.
For me the key was under standing that I can not control me WW.
I cant make her not seek out OM.
I cant make her fix her self.
I cant make her give a damn about me.
So I stepped away emotionally. Leaving (D) is for now not a option. So I have just move on with me life. I pursue interests I have neglected. I just basically do as I please. If she want to come with me. Ok fine. Otherwise. Also ok fine.
We get allong on the surface level. Nothing deep or meaningful. We are civil to each other. We talk. But never about any thing deep.
It is what it is. And really. I have learnt to be ok with it exactly as it is.
The sex part, well let me tell ya I'm not in a competion... I can do it like a porn star or just simply do it to bust a nut... The ex, she isn't porn star material and isn't great in the sack... I really don't believe the OM got much more that a hole that was available anytime he wanted to bust a nut...
The emotional side of it that she believed she was in luuuuuv doesn't bother me all that much... It's that fact that she tried to keep me as a back up plan... Ya know, just in case it didn't work out... The level of deceit is simply disturbing...
What really bothers me the most is the effort she put into becoming the perfect thing physically for him... She never did that for me... She got a boob job, lost wieght, changed the way she dressed and shaved her bush...
The funny part of all this though is who the OM was... He ended up being a violent NPD that was screwing 3 other women the same time he was screwing her... She really believed his bullshit and that's all it was, NPD bullshit... She fell for it hook, like and sinker....
When I confronted her with all the facts of the OM and told her who else (by name) who he was screwing while hosing her she threw a fit! She sat there in disbelief as a rattled off everything I knew as fact about the OM. Hell I knew him twenty some odd years ago when he bartended.. She couldn't believe I knew who and what he was... This is a small city and I know tons of people through friends and a very large family.
Hell, I'm 3 1/2 years out from Dday and everyday I'm farther from the turmoil I tend to view the ex as more of a weak ass joke of a woman... Any woman can use her vagina as a tool to get anything from money to notoriety... The ex just used hers to fall in luuuuv with a fake NPD male whore... What a prize!
Sure I got duped and treated like shit but in the end I came out the winner because I don't have a dirtbag like her NPD male whore listed on my resume'...
[This message edited by wonderingbull at 11:53 AM, October 21st (Thursday)]
The fact that she didn't even care enough about me or herself to the what was right and decent is the hardest part of all. What she did was wrong, how she did it was excruciatingly painful and so hard to get over.
Of course, if you're that unhappy, do the right thing and either leave the marriage or try to fix it. Don't just use your spouse. I feel incredibly used; that's what pisses me off almost more than anything.
The betrayal and lies were what ultimately killed the feelings I had for her... Hell, I wouldn't even have a friend who has treated me that way... Why would I have a W/SO that treated me that way...
[This message edited by 64fleet at 5:24 PM, October 21st (Thursday)]
[This message edited by 64fleet at 5:23 PM, October 21st (Thursday)]
Yeah - I'm still getting that line of shit from time to time from my WW. She started in with her bulshit again last night about how she wasnt reading anymore of the book or going to counseling and if I kept it up blah blah fucking blah....
I ignored her, she took off her ring and threw it, and I said whatever and went to bed. Divorce looks great. I can look forward to raising my kids without having to raise her dumbass selfish rear end too.
I not until recently started being me again. IE ignoring BS doing whatever i want and not caring at all how much she bitches.
She has been bitching more exactly as expected.
She has to change now or go for D if I keep this up.
I will make her carry the burden of D.
You dont have an LTA doublke betrayl on me and than make me D.
It's all you honey.
Put up or shut up. I dont care.
Do you want her to go for D? Or are you holding out a sliver of hope that she'll change?
If you want her to D, you may be waiting a long, long time.