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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: Betrayed Men - Part 5
64fleet
♂ Member
Member # 18710
Default  Posted: 4:33 PM, October 21st (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Mine's outta town til Fri, & things have never been this smooth. The kids are lots easier to handle when she's not here. They do what I tell them. Both were in bed by 8:30PM.

I don't miss her at all, I even slept better last nite-I did not wake up at all, which is very odd-I usually wake up 3-4 times a nite.

I think I'd really be better off w/o her, but I'd have to somehow borrow thousands just to get rid of her.


time wounds all heels

Posts: 5359 | Registered: Mar 2008 | From: deliverance land
HurtingandLost
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Member # 29322
Default  Posted: 4:35 PM, October 21st (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

The gaps will consume your thoughts, and impede the healing process. At three years out it should be evident if she is intentionally holding back information or not, and/or making appropriate steps to ensure that you are both healing and moving forward.

If she hasnt changed her actions to reflect a new, healthy her and marriage, then what keeps you hanging around after 3 years? I'm only three months out and I'm ready to bolt. My WW thinks she can put a sugar coating on everything by helping out around the house (inconsistently) or by saying I love you a few times while refusing to do what is necessary to heal (counseling / reading books / looking introspectively). In my sitch, its almost worse than the actual fling she had in July. Like a double slap across the face.

Three years? Some of you guys have some real patience. Its just not one of my virtues.


holding out hope
UPDATE: Hope's Dead

Posts: 430 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: CO
wonderingbull
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Member # 14833
Default  Posted: 4:57 PM, October 21st (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm three and a half years from Dday and moving out... We were together for 18 years and had a home together for 6... I didn't wait around after Dday to get away from her bullshit.. I was moved into a great place within a week... She was actually jealous where I moved because it's a great part of town with big old oil mansions through out the neighborhood..

With the ex there was no timeline just a minimized verbal spewing of bullshit and lies... There was NO staying in the relationship without answering every question I had and she was only capable of admitting to so much...

The ex's idea of "healing" and repairing the relationship?--- Buy a giant fucking rug and broom and sweep her ass off.... Instead of that I got the hell out of there...

WB



The secret of life is enjoying the passage of time...

James Taylor


Posts: 5893 | Registered: Jun 2007 | From: A better place
HurtingandLost
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Member # 29322
Default  Posted: 5:04 PM, October 21st (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

WB -

I hear ya. Did that when my first marriage went south with the first wife (Can you believe I married TWO of them?)

Now I'm sitting here "holding out hope", for what? A miracle? Cause last time I checked (this morning) she's no Mother Theresa or Virgin Mary (obviously). And when she continuously places her feelings and needs above all else it opens my eyes a bit more everytime.

I'm not looking forward to juggling my time with the kids only on the weekends, but I am looking forward to just being done with this shit.


holding out hope
UPDATE: Hope's Dead

Posts: 430 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: CO
Lotsa
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Member # 28078
Default  Posted: 6:20 PM, October 21st (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

The ex's idea of "healing" and repairing the relationship?--- Buy a giant fucking rug and broom and sweep her ass off.... Instead of that I got the hell out of there...

Amen to that... I moved out 4 months post-DD after false R (or what I considered false R) and receiving 5 different timelines and constant trickletruthing. Since then, despite her protestations of wanting a further opportunity to R, there's still been further trickle truth.

While being happy to do the easy stuff, she can't or won't do the hard work involved, hence why I am moving on with my life without her. With just being a matter of weeks before trying to conceive a child prior to DD, I am truly thankful now that I don't have the added compexity of children in our relationship to deal with and can move forward with "relative" ease.


Posts: 880 | Registered: Mar 2010
LeftHanging51
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Member # 13826
Default  Posted: 12:47 PM, October 22nd (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

It's been a loooooong time since I posted anything here, but seeing all of the recent posts about the EA / PA kind of roped me back in.

It's been 3 years since I separated from WW. Without going into any long drawn out story, in July 2009 I finally came to the decision to go through with the divorce. This was after I gave her another chance to show she could be honest with me. Well, she blew that opportunity.

The only reason I'm not divorced today is that I've agreed the hold things off until the end of 2010 so she could obtain another job and get her own health insurance. We have little to do with each other, and I'm (happily) getting on with my life. We're supposed to go into court during the first week of January to get the divorce finalized.

It's been a long and difficult road for me to get to this point, but I can look back and say that I gave her every chance to fix things, and she just pissed on it.

It's not an easy road fellas, but you have to be true to yourself. If you're not sure what direction to take (whether to divorce or stay together), ask yourself: "what am I getting out of being in this marriage?"

When I realized that there were no good reasons for me to stay in the marriage and made the decision to end it, it began the period of my life when I am at peace with myself, and can focus on the things that are important to me.


D-Day #1: 2/07
D-Day #2, #3, #4,....too many to count
Me (BS): 54
WW: 57
Married 8/05 (2d marriage for both)
Divorced Feb. 2011

Posts: 161 | Registered: Mar 2007
Lost42
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Member # 29641
Default  Posted: 12:59 PM, October 22nd (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

EA vs. PA:

With my WW, it never would have been a simple PA. This I know. But the right EA came along, she "fell in love" and poof: PA.

I thought I could handle the PA details (or thought I wanted to know), then I read her journal and found out much more than I wanted. I ain't reading no more journals, and asking no more questions. I know enough to haunt me for a lifetime.

Like most here, I am still in limbo. And I need to go break something now.


Me (BH) 42
Her (WW) 42
DDay -- August 2010
Married 15 years, 3 young children

Posts: 182 | Registered: Sep 2010 | From: Southeast US
Lotsa
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Member # 28078
Default  Posted: 2:31 AM, October 23rd (Saturday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

It's been a long and difficult road for me to get to this point, but I can look back and say that I gave her every chance to fix things, and she just pissed on it.

Thanks for sharing LeftHanging. I sometimes have a nagging thought questioning whether I'll have any regrets, but it is comforting to hear stories of those further down the path than I who are comfortable in their decision.


Posts: 880 | Registered: Mar 2010
deeppurple
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Member # 28757
Default  Posted: 4:41 AM, October 23rd (Saturday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thats the big question we all face while in limbo - how much fucking time time do we give them?
We each have differing levels of tolerance - either way its a shitty way to live.


Me - BS 49
Her - WS 43
Married 16 yrs (together 17 yrs)
DD13 DS10 DS8 DS6
DDay 1 6.4.2010 dday 2 7.25.2010
Heading for divorce.
"Never look down on someone unless you are helping them up"

Posts: 522 | Registered: Jun 2010 | From: Where the sun is shining & the surf is pumping
oftenwrong
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Member # 27822
Default  Posted: 9:44 PM, October 23rd (Saturday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

In my journeys, I come to the following observations. (This is only my personal opinion)

When a woman decides to step out of the marriage, it is usually permanent. Why is this? For a few reasons:

The emotional bond they had with the spouse is broken. With that broken link, a whole series of events trigger in their mind. They lose respect for the spouse, the fantasy they had of you is gone, and the spouse is no longer seen in the same light. (see alpha male versus beta male post) Intamacy is nearly impossible to achieve on an emotional level because of this.

Weeks and months will go by trying to rebuild the fairy tale they once saw the relationship as only to find they can no longer recover that spark. It's like going back to disney world as an adult only to not have that "feeling" you once had as a child in that magical place. Inevidably, they will crave the emotional bond and rationalize their future transgressions as they did the 1st time they were caught. It is an unending cycle that usually ends up in divorce.

Many women who step out aren't stupid. They realize that sleeping with other men will come at a high cost. Their family, their financial stability and home. They will "tolerate" you for a period of time but that tolerance has limits. You soon become an annoyance. She begins to make your life a living hell thru psychological tricks and downright coldness we as men are accused of so much.

Life becomes unbearable and the man makes the only choice available to him and he leaves. She keeps the kids, the house and a clean conscious knowing that YOU were the one to leave.

In my humble opinion, either a woman is ready to repair the damage she has done immediately or it is not likely to happen.


ME - BSO (35 yrs old)
Her - XWSO (31 yrs old)
LTR 10 years - There can be no 2nd chances


Posts: 995 | Registered: Mar 2010
Mr. Kite
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Member # 28840
Default  Posted: 10:10 PM, October 23rd (Saturday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

What you posted makes a lot of sense, "oftenwrong."

Let's see...

Emotional bond broken...check
Fantasy gone...check
Respect gone...check
Intimacy? What's that?...check
I've become an annoyance...check
She begins to make your life a living hell thru psychological tricks and downright coldness...check
Life becomes unbearable...check

My only question now is, what the hell am I still doing here in this marriage?

Oh, and as for this comment...

They will "tolerate" you for a period of time but that tolerance has limits.

She's been tolerating me for the last 16 to 17 years since the first A's and has no intention of quitting the marriage or changing her ways. In fact she doesn't understand what I'm so unhappy about.


Posts: 900 | Registered: Jun 2010 | From: Mid-Atlantic
oftenwrong
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Member # 27822
Default  Posted: 10:52 PM, October 23rd (Saturday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

It is so sad that relationships follow this trend but it becomes quite predictable once you look at it from the outside in.

After time, I realized it was me keeping myself in an untennable situation.

There were 2 scenarios at play. There was the 1 fantasy she long put in the pages of history in her mind, and then there was the fantasy I very much had alive in my mind of the innocent, beautiful, faithful woman I was in love with who only had a momentary lapse of bad judgement.

Being a man, I am quite closed off to many people. The only person I shared my experiences, fears and vulnarbilities to was content to exploit those vulnerabilities to suit her needs.

The women who know our darkest and deepest secrets have an almost natural gift at manipulation. This is why years later after we remove ourselves from the situation we ask: "How the hell did I put up with this for so long?!!"

Men have an amazing tolerance for pain and suffering. We put ourselves thru torture and sacrifice to provide for our children and family. This situation is another burden we THINK we have to bear in order to keep our families and loved ones safe and cohesive.

Sadly, that too is all part of the fantasy we hold in our heads. Most men on here don't give up on their marriages. The wife simply violates the trust and marriage over and over again until the choice is made for you.

Each relationship is different and I cannot tell if anyone here fits in to this mold. I can say that all of you know the answer deep down whether the marriage was over from the first D day. If it is, it is time to take your life back.

If your wives do fit this mold, there is only 1 inevitable destination for you. You only need to decide then how long and miserable the journey will be and how much in the end it will cost you.

Infidelity is a terrible terrible burden they forced on us. It is up to you where to go from here. I like to think I no longer am a puppet tethered by my heart strings. There are billions of women out there. Each capable of giving me more than I ever got from those that took me for granted.

You deserve to live a life fullfilled and happy. If you aren't getting that, you need to really do some soul searching.


ME - BSO (35 yrs old)
Her - XWSO (31 yrs old)
LTR 10 years - There can be no 2nd chances


Posts: 995 | Registered: Mar 2010
oftenwrong
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Member # 27822
Default  Posted: 10:52 PM, October 23rd (Saturday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

oops. Hit enter twice

[This message edited by oftenwrong at 10:52 PM, October 23rd (Saturday)]


ME - BSO (35 yrs old)
Her - XWSO (31 yrs old)
LTR 10 years - There can be no 2nd chances


Posts: 995 | Registered: Mar 2010
lostcause111
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Member # 19109
Default  Posted: 4:56 AM, October 24th (Sunday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Oftenwrong.

Great points.

I think you in a way explain where I ended up 3 years post d-day.

My wife is still the same post cheating at her core. The mean selfish BS she does that somehow I ignored are so visible.

She is broken inside and has no will to fix herself.

I am in the M ONLY for my kids and realize I don't love my wife. I act.

I am not happy with the M but in the end dont care anymore. I am not even mad at my W anymore. I just see her as a selfish broken person and she has my sympathy.

What the fuck was I in love with? When I go back and REALLY see how she was and is and compare that to a basic list of relationship needs I have she misses virtual all of them.

I realized with her being like this in a way I had a problem in that I accepted it.

Now I call her out anytime she acts foolish and do everything I feel like doing. If that causes her to leave so be it.

I took the weight of the A and M off of me and gave it to her where it belongs.

But now that I dont care I feel MUCH better.

My M will eventually be over threw her or I Ding in the future and I am OK with it.

Being alone is much better than being with W. I am happier with no grass.


Posts: 934 | Registered: Apr 2008
oftenwrong
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Member # 27822
Default  Posted: 9:52 AM, October 24th (Sunday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Kids are usually the only reason men stay as long as they do. That too can produce ripples of issues later on in the kid's development.

If your daughter comes to you years later and asks:

Dad, my husband treats me with disrespect, cheats on me, exposes me to std's and we do not love each other. I am miserable and sometimes think of death as a sweet release. I hate my life and what I have become. What do I do?

I think your advice would be clear.

Or, she talks to you one day and says:

Dad, it always hurt me knowing that you stayed in a relationship and you weren't happy. I wish I had a say or knew what was going on. I love you so much and would have never have wanted you to sacrifice so much.

Does this become worth it then? Kids are a lot smarter than we give them credit for.

An even worse case scenario. The children emulate what they see as a normal relationship and inevidably end up in the same position you are in. What would you give to ensure your children do not end up in the same position you are in?

There are no easy answers and by all definitions this sucks.

I can say that you can't go wrong loving your children and doing what's best that makes you happy. Happiness has a trickle down effect and influences children in thousands of ways.

Conversely, misery has the same trickle down effect. Live life brother, take the bull by the horns and find happiness. I guaruntee you, your children will forgive you even if they don't understand why you 2 are separating. When they become adults, they will see you as the strong, noble superman they see you today.


ME - BSO (35 yrs old)
Her - XWSO (31 yrs old)
LTR 10 years - There can be no 2nd chances


Posts: 995 | Registered: Mar 2010
Oblivious1
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Member # 24686
Default  Posted: 3:53 PM, October 24th (Sunday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Oftenwrong,

I'm afraid you're right in my situation. I've been fighting for my M for 17 months. It's ironic that the same week I decided I could (and would) put her As in the past and never mention them again, that she's struggling. She says she can no longer have sex, etc. I feel like she just messing with my head. Like I'm a chump and she's about to take my family, my house, and my money and leave.


Me: BS 42, Her: WS 45
M 18 yrs, 2 kids
Headed for D

Posts: 277 | Registered: Jul 2009
roadscholar
Member
Member # 23276
Default  Posted: 6:04 PM, October 24th (Sunday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Oftenwrong-
Great posts....spot on.
I also believe that once a WW gives herself permission to start having sex with other men...she's WAY down the road to being completely "checked out" of the marriage. I've spent a ton of time reading in the various forums here...and that seems pretty obvious to me.
It's certainly how things played out in my situation. On D-Day, the PA had been going on for 8 months...and her loyalty and commitment, both emotionally and physically were to the OM. End of story.
I was an annoyance....a pathetic doormat, trying to talk her back into the marriage. Should've been putting all her shit in black plastic trash bags and setting them out front.
It's unbearable to read some of the stories in JFO from BH's, making many of the same mistakes that so many of us made in the early stages. It's pretty much impossible to see at the time....but I believe that for the vast majority of us, our marriages were dead and buried on D-Day, and nothing was ever going to change that.

Life does go on though, one way or another. My D will be final in a week or so...don't even know the exact day for sure. A letter will arrive in the mail informing that it's over, and that will be that. I won't shed a tear, nor will I crack open the champagne....I'll just read the letter and carry on with my day, I expect. STBXWW has been moved out for 6 months now...and compared to False-R/LimboLand, it's been great.


Me-BH, 45
Her-XWW, 40
2 boys- 11 & 14
D-Day- 2-14-09
Several attempts at R, all of which failed.
Divorce final on 11/23/10
"Life's Been Good To Me So Far..." Joe Walsh

Posts: 182 | Registered: Mar 2009
Mr. Kite
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Member # 28840
Default  Posted: 10:47 PM, October 24th (Sunday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Listened to this song by 'Supertramp' today that really hit home. Btw the name of the band also rings true.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-nvT3_iSaHU&feature=related

Take The Long Way Home

So you think you're a Romeo
playing a part in a picture-show
Take the long way home
Take the long way home

Cos you're the joke of the neighborhood
Why should you care if you're feeling good
Take the long way home
Take the long way home

But there are times that you feel you're part of the scenery
all the greenery is comin' down, boy
And then your wife seems to think you're part of the
furniture oh, it's peculiar, she used to be so nice.

When lonely days turn to lonely nights
you take a trip to the city lights
And take the long way home
Take the long way home

You never see what you want to see
Forever playing to the gallery
You take the long way home
Take the long way home

And when you're up on the stage, it's so unbelievable,
unforgettable, how they adore you,
But then your wife seems to think you're losing your sanity,
oh, calamity, is there no way out?

Does it feel that you life's become a catastrophe?
Oh, it has to be for you to grow, boy.

When you look through the years and see what you could
have been oh, what might have been,
if you'd had more time.

So, when the day comes to settle down,
Who's to blame if you're not around?
You took the long way home
You took the long way home...........


Posts: 900 | Registered: Jun 2010 | From: Mid-Atlantic
SourCherryDrops
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Member # 25883
Default  Posted: 2:09 AM, October 25th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

id actually go a little further on one of the points that oftenwrong made.

Their fantasy for you is gone... This is akin to the rose coloured glasses that we all wear at the start of a new relationship. It allows us to overlook a persons foibles, It makes them seem just that little bit better, everything they do is great....

well i would add that at least in my case part of the process of my W detaching from the M leading up to her first A was first the crumbling of this fantasy, but then also the replacement with a new one, a fantasy that made everything i did, everything i said be mean, be nasty, be horrible, My STBXW started seeing everything about me negatively. If i gave her a compliment it was because as her husband i am sposed to and i didnt really mean it. if i worked a heap of overtime so we could afford somethign it was because i didnt want to be around her...

Its my belief that this negative fantasy is what ultimately sealed the coffin on my M. Even during R when well for fucks sake I was still there trying to save my Relationship with her, trying to get over it....even then she was so used to placing a negative spin on everything, to seeing any action regarldess of actual intent as negative, that in the end she lost any remaining hope for the M.

finally we agree on something, Ive pretty much lost all hope for the M as well. 8 Mths till i can D!


Me BS 37, Her STBX 34, 1*ONS, 1*EA 1*PA/EA, 2*PA
Heading for D after 9 mths of R

Posts: 1468 | Registered: Oct 2009 | From: Europe
oftenwrong
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Member # 27822
Default  Posted: 5:46 AM, October 25th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

SCD you captured it perfectly. The issues comes down to the the women being broken. If she doesn't look internally for the reasons she did what she did, there is nothing you can do to fix it.

Ofcourse this damages us deeply as it makes us feel inferior. It boggles our minds as men to try to figure out why we just aren't good enough.

If any of you are like my previous situations, you were left for a man that in every sense of the word is a loser. How can an uneducated, drug using player steal this smart, beautful woman from me? How can she not see past his obvious lies?

The harder I tried to hold on, the further I pushed her away. I tried to find logic and reasoning in seemingly illgocial, reckless decision making by my former mate.

With each gesture and amazing acts of forgiveness, came contempt from her. My stock price lowered every time I tried to sacrifice my happiness to try to make her see that she was destroying her life and everyone around her. I thought if I could just make her see how crazy she was being, how foolish she was being, and how there was absolutely no future with this man she was with, she would see reason.

Alas, that failed as it usually does. I think there begins the line that separates the male and female species. This is why I think men have a hard time understanding the female pysche when it comes to relationships.

I began to realize that women see relationships on a more emotional/visceral level than men. For the reasons in the above posts, that emotional switch never refires in them.

Every overature I made could never make that switch flip again in her head. With each action I made to save the relationship came only validation in her head that "we weren't meant for each other".

If there is no emotional reaction in their minds with every action we take, it isn't meaningful. It is why a woman can simply walk away from a date if "there is no chemistry"

The chemistry is the emotional/visceral reaction they perceive they should receive based off of your actions, your words and the tone of your voice.

Unknowingly, the more I tried to save the situation, the more nails I was actually driving in our relationship's coffin.

This goes on for several months until I am all but worthless and pathetic in her eyes.

In the end, it wasn't my failings, nor my "sex appeal" or mind that she found repugnant. It was the lack of reaction in her brain to such things that made it so.

There is hope though. You can raise your stock back up to prime value again. I found the only way to do this is to take back respect for yourself.

When my last SO stepped out, I started down the same failed path of trying counseling etc. She only got more angry and contemptable. I then saw another pattern developing as it has so many times in the past. I removed her completely from my life.

This did not make sense to her at all. She couldn't reconcile the fact that if I loved her, how can I so easily close the door? This started wheels turning in her head. This forced her to self reflect and look inward to the source of these problems rather than conveniently blaming me. The more I ignored her, the more she wanted to come back. She suddenly wanted to work on the relationship, wanted to seek counseling and to this day continues to try to stay in contact with me despite my no contact letters to her.

Being removed from the situation, I realized I deserved better and started dating again recently. I love it.

Getting back your spouses starts with respect. You can only recover that lost respect thru your strong actions. I can think of no other way. Until they respect you, R is not possible.


ME - BSO (35 yrs old)
Her - XWSO (31 yrs old)
LTR 10 years - There can be no 2nd chances


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