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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: Long Term Affair... Part 18
atsenaotie
♂ Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 10:22 PM, June 7th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Mr. nofun does not and won't read.

There are a lot of things I just didn't do prior to dday. Talking about and expressing emotions is a prime example. Getting "in touch" with my emotions is probably the greatest expression of love my FWW will never recognize. I have had to learn to do things I was initially uncomfortable with to save my M, and I am the BS. I feel like I have had to lead my FWW through R, how nice it would be if she took the lead, but at least she is following my lead and pulling her weight.

I feel so sorry and angry for you BS's that have WS who just do not get it at all. It is salt in the wound, it is narcissism, it is just not right.

honesttoafault, you just again referred to the times your H said you were too big. I am embarrassed for all men that he would say that, and so sorry that you had to think about that. How appropriate that you see now that it was he who was too small.

Wow, where did this tirade come from? I guess I better get another drink and tie some rigs up for fishing on Sunday.

--Ats


LTA BS 53
FWW 60
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Reconciled

Posts: 3967 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
Allgoodnamesgone
♀ Member
Member # 26157
Default  Posted: 6:14 AM, June 8th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Yesterday was good - the night before I had explained to my H why I was so sad, etc. & we had a pretty good conversation about it - then we went to mc which was good (for me anyway) - I can only hope some of it sinks in with him.
Today will be tough for me. My H is going on a work trip for the day - since he is taking his brother with him I felt safe about it so I said ok- but I am starting to freak out a little bit about whether ow will be there or not.
H says its not the kind of thing she would go to - but I'm not sure. We went over a game plan as to what to do if she goes - and I guess I just have to hope for the best.
I will be a frantic mess today, so hugs are appreciated.


Me- BS
DDay- 8/26/09
Separated after failed R effort.

Posts: 2165 | Registered: Nov 2009
nofun
♀ Member
Member # 24546
Default  Posted: 6:34 AM, June 8th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hugs for you allgood....it sucks to stress over these things.

Honest - Mr. Fun doesn't take any meds...he doesn't have high blood pressure...he just has ED. He says he hates his life and wishes he would die. He's not depressed huh? I don't even feel bad because he did this to himself and now he's looking for me to get him out of it. But that is truly impossible for me to do because he is a very unhappy man and always has been. I believe that is why he is in the mess he's in right now....only he doesn't see it. He will blame everyone else instead of looking within himself. He doesn't and never has seen all the wonderful things he has in his life...wonderful children, a good wife, a nice home, etc. It's always been poor me...I'm bored, I need this, I want that, I need a vacation, etc.

Ok, I'm just venting....

Thanks for listening...I'm off to the old grind!!


BS (me) 56
WH 61
M 36 yrs
OW - 55 - Howdy Doody Look Alike
3 Awesome Adult C
DD 6/7/09
LTA 12 years.
Confused: D or R???

Posts: 987 | Registered: Jun 2009
iwantamiracle
♀ Member
Member # 22812
Default  Posted: 7:54 AM, June 8th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(((((allgood)))))

keep the faith allgood...i know, easier said then done, but try


fun: i hate the woe is me crap, pfm used to do all the time, still does now, but its different now...its more of a feels so sorry for himself and put that together with him always patting himself on the back...the "boy" is so needy, needs majoy approval...and he's not getting it...i know i am not describing it well...its just a different kind of woe is me...and i can't stand it...

and yes i know what it is to take the initiative and lead this horrible fight...but when pfm could do his part, i ended it...i have also realized that i cannot "fix" the man..he has to fix himself...and he has to do "for" himself...this is not the kind of thing you could do for someone else...you have to want to do and do it for yourself....


ats: that was a tirade???? ...wow, you really know how to let it loose... .....are you that calm irl??...


i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
old dipstick
♂ Member
Member # 25598
Default  Posted: 9:26 AM, June 8th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

nofun. The ED issue is not about you. I know that it is hard to think that way just like it is hard to understand that the A was not about you. Your Hs age is a major factor in this. The things that ats and honest mentioned are also things to consider. The performance anxiety alone is enough to be a party pooper. I would think that performance anxiety coupled with guilt and self hate would be a real erection stopper. I think it would be a safe bet that if he is depressed, the ED issues are adding to that depression. I know you are thinking that if he was able perform while with OW, why does he need help when he is with me? Let me give you the flip side to this story. After my W went through menopause, she had/has a moisture problem. This dryness makes intercourse a painful thing for her. When this started happening, one of the first thoughts I had was that she had plenty of moisture for OM, I guess I just do not turn her on anymore. (See, I understand how you feel.) I just have to remember that what has happened to her is just the change of life.

I was not real clear if you were asking for my perspective about the ED or the part about your H being afraid you would have a RA so I will take a shot at this issue too. Since I am a BH it is hard for me to view things from his side of the fence. I think he should be very worried that you will look for another man. He knows how easy it was for him to do all he did. It has to be in his mind that if he can you can. I think that very few people want to share their W or H with someone else. Yes even Ws. That is the part that is truely crazy. To think that it is o.k. for her/him to screw around, but you better not do it. If this did not help any, please do not hesitate to ask for more info. I will be glad to help you if I can.

ats. You W pointing out other women for you, seems like she was sort of being remorseful and ashamed of what she was involved in. She must has thought that she was not worthy of you. Strange thoughts from the WW/WH people.

I know you are on edge about being around other people that know your history. I am sure that they are not going to be thinking of the A all the time. (that is a privilege reserved for the BS) Try to relax and enjoy the get together. I have another thought about your stepD. Besides all the reasons I mentioned before about why she did not tell you, here is something to consider. You say you have always been close. Think about how hard it would have been on her to tell you something that was so painful. Mix this with her having to betray her own mother, and it just looks like a no win situation for her.

So you are back to grilling and drinking. Good news. I was worried about you.

miracle. Us low keyed guys keep our tirades at a civilized level. Another reason why me and ats are such cool cats.

Hugs to the tribe.


Her WW 60
Me BH 60
M 36 yr
D-day#1 fall of 76 OM#1 2NS
D-day#2 summer of 89 OM#2 LTA 8 yrs OM#3 Short Term A


Posts: 751 | Registered: Sep 2009
nofun
♀ Member
Member # 24546
Default  Posted: 12:40 PM, June 8th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks Old Dip, you helped me with the man's prospective. But what I can't stop thinking about is the ED thing. Before I found out about the A, he didn't need the viagra...oh yeah, he would use it once in awhile but after the A, he totally NEEDS it. He also needed it with OW because that is part of what lead me to snoop. I found prescription bottles in his truck of Viagra. I started to count them and everytime he went out on a Friday night, one pill would be missing. So yes, his age has something to do with it, and maybe guilt.

I find the whole intimacy thing very very difficult anyway. I don't have the connection to FWH that I used to. I feel distant. I doubt it will ever come back either.

FWH was talking to his friend while I was away over the weekend. His friend told me that he loves FWH dearly but FWH needs serious help with his issues. He said that my FWH thinks his M should be something like a fantasy. That he does not think in reality. He said he was sexually driven and that he was worried about him. I don't know what to make of that or how to interpret it. I only know that it bothers me because FWH's issues are not mine to fix.


BS (me) 56
WH 61
M 36 yrs
OW - 55 - Howdy Doody Look Alike
3 Awesome Adult C
DD 6/7/09
LTA 12 years.
Confused: D or R???

Posts: 987 | Registered: Jun 2009
iwantamiracle
♀ Member
Member # 22812
Default  Posted: 1:05 PM, June 8th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

fun: that sounds like something to tell the his ic when you go to him....

and you already know that your ws has issues, this is confirming it from another perspective...and as far living in fantasy, yup you knew that one too...don't take what this friend told you as anything more then a confirmation of what you already knew...sometimes that validation that someone else see's it is almost empowering....the point here is that none of this is new info...and thats good..it means your take on it is on the money, it means its nothing more and it means that if he really gives ic his all, he could hopefully fix what is broken within himself...

as for the e.d. issues, you seem to be really stuck on he didn't need before the a...which i would take a great sign that he didn't need with you all the time, but with her he needed a little help.. .....and he also probably didn't want to fail to perform with her...the ego, you are, or should say were safe..before you knew....now you are not safe anymore...which means he cannot relax about it...all part of his issues...and then of course as dip put it, its all part of aging, which is going on at the same time, because none of us can make time stand still...and the only other alternative to aging is death....but i won't get into that one right now..


and dip: that does not even come close to a civilized level tirade to me....i don't even think that "tirade" can tip a scale....its way too lightweight..


((((tribe))))

off to do school pick ups...


i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
old dipstick
♂ Member
Member # 25598
Default  Posted: 1:40 PM, June 8th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

nofun. Before D-day he used it some of the times with you, but always with OW? I do not think this problem usually just starts all at once. It is most often a gradual thing. There are exceptions to that but it seems to me that this was starting before D-day. If he was having to use it everytime with her, I would think that the guilt and anxiety, along with aging, were causing the ED. The performance anxiety is a difficult problem. It is probably like stage fright. I always explain it this way. It is a catch 22 situation. The more you worry, the more it happens. The more it happens, the more you worry. In a way this problem just feeds its self. Of course you know that if you have to use the pill, there is a timing issue to deal with. I think this little fact is determental to both the H and W. Toss in the side effects like stuffy nose, head/stomach ache and the intimacy part of all this can take a back seat to everything else. You might have been dealing with the ED issue anyway. The A just makes things more complicated. I can tell you for a fact that as a BH, the ghost in the bedroom will complicate the ED problem. It is just another factor in all this. I'm sure this is all working on your H, and adding to his problem. If/when the pills stop being effective all this head game ED stuff really esculates.

You say you are having problems with the intimacy and feel distant toward him. That is normal and should get better with time. It is a difficult problem to fix.

Since your H talks to this friend, can you get the friend to nudge your H toward some sort of IC help with his issues. I do not mean just the ED issue. The friend is worried about your H and seems like he is close to him.

Remember, if you need to know more, please ask.

P.S. It is very difficult to write this much about ED without using the word hard. Very hard!


Her WW 60
Me BH 60
M 36 yr
D-day#1 fall of 76 OM#1 2NS
D-day#2 summer of 89 OM#2 LTA 8 yrs OM#3 Short Term A


Posts: 751 | Registered: Sep 2009
trynhard
♂ Member
Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 1:50 PM, June 8th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Stopped by for a quick hello...

Nofun...

I heard this last night...
In the fell clutch of circumstance
Under the bludgeonings of chance
Beyond this place of wrath and tears
Looms but the Horror of the shade
I am the master of my fate
I am the captain of my soul

It kinda made me think about us.... Can you believe a man in prison for 27 years for political activity... after his release... he declared his commitment to peace and reconciliation? wow... LTA's...I had a vision of nofun and made this last night...


http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4006/4682176187_8888cdda89_b.jpg

So much fearů so much hurt... So much... unkowning. It is no fun.

Peace out to all...

[This message edited by trynhard at 2:00 PM, June 8th (Tuesday)]


Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
m334455
♀ Member
Member # 26893
Default  Posted: 3:30 PM, June 8th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Nofun and ATS -- I had the can't sleep/weird nightmares thing for a solid month at one point. It's normal. It will pass. I also had wake up randomly crying. That was NOFUN.

Work is kicking my tail.

I'll have some book reviews for y'all soon.

(((honest))) hang in there.

Ok - gotta go, only had time to read, not post.


BW 38, 5 kids
Dday Dec. 2009

Posts: 4034 | Registered: Dec 2009
iwantamiracle
♀ Member
Member # 22812
Default  Posted: 4:19 PM, June 8th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I always explain it this way.

so dip, you always explain it this way...how often do you explain:

P.S. It is very difficult to write this much about ED without using the word hard. Very hard!

there is this little devil person on my shoulder and she is just ....


tryn: glad you stopped by...those hands in the picture scare me a bit... ...otherwise i like it...


I also had wake up randomly crying. That was NOFUN.

((((m3)))) i hope you mr m3 was able to comfort you....i hope you are in a place that mr fun can comfort you....not i



i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
nofun
♀ Member
Member # 24546
Default  Posted: 7:03 PM, June 8th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

tryn - OmG, I am freaked out. That picture so resembles me. I have two jack russels that look exactly as those two in the picture. I always believed I had this sixth sense....evidently it was broken for 12 years!!!

olddisp - I can't thank you enough....my H is going to IC..he just started...but I really think he needs a shrink....I think he's got lots and lots of mental issues. But don't most of WS have mental issues?

M3 - are you sleeping ok now? What is your secret?

dip - when there is viagra involved, it is always a fake hard!!! It's not a normal hard!!!


BS (me) 56
WH 61
M 36 yrs
OW - 55 - Howdy Doody Look Alike
3 Awesome Adult C
DD 6/7/09
LTA 12 years.
Confused: D or R???

Posts: 987 | Registered: Jun 2009
Allgoodnamesgone
♀ Member
Member # 26157
Default  Posted: 9:19 PM, June 8th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Finally - some time to myself & some time to catch up here.

Tryn: once again - I just started quick strolling down the page & see a great picture & I yelled "Tryn!" (yelling silently to myself really).
I went to MC yesterday & he was trying to explain to me that I should explain how I FEEL to my husband. Lol. It really was hard to supress my smile. Hmm... where have I heard that before... lol. Good to hear from you.

Fun: I dont think you can really expect to feel close to your H until he starts doing some of the things that you need to heal, etc. At times I feel like that myself. I am consistent in that I don't want to lose my H- but there are plenty of times where I'm like - I really don't feel "it" for him. I was in a funk for the past week - omg - you would love this - I'm telling him just how sad I feel, etc. and he doesn't say anything to me - he just starts having sex with me! Sorry if this is TMI I just thought it was just so funny - like here you go honey - that'll fix you right up.
Really, I would've been a bit more into it if he had said SOMETHING to address the issue at hand - but I have come to learn that this is the way he is. (MC actually called him emotionally stupid yesterday.) My H might have been offended except I think he was happy enough that the overall message was that I should not expect too much from him - so my H was perfectly fine with the "emotionally stupid" label.
Anyhoo - back to the point - even after we argued a bit after MC (gotta love it), I was really "into" him again because I got some emotional response from him earlier in the day.
And the sex issues - I've been there too - maybe not to the same extent- and it's terrible. Dip is right (hear that Dip?) It's a no-win situation - any acknowledgment of it just makes it worse. It was so hard for me to bite my tongue when this was happening with us - but I did- and we haven't had any kind of problem in months.

Ats: I still have a bit of anxiety when socializing with people who know about the A. And, I have to say, the people here were right - nobody else thinks about it as an all-encompassing world swallowing event. Just chill & have a good time.

And as to taking the lead in R - well - it appears that is the norm around here doesn't it. Good that she is pullin her weight tho.

K - that's it for now - had a crazy busy day - H was away all day - did a nice job of staying in contact with me before his phone died. OW was not there at the time I spoke with him - but it doesn't mean she wasn't going to be there later. Still waiting to hear from him - but I'm ok & that's about all I want right now.
Peace.

[This message edited by Allgoodnamesgone at 9:22 PM, June 8th (Tuesday)]


Me- BS
DDay- 8/26/09
Separated after failed R effort.

Posts: 2165 | Registered: Nov 2009
Allgoodnamesgone
♀ Member
Member # 26157
Default  Posted: 6:22 AM, June 9th (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Still catching up -

Honest:

In my case, in the past, I usually beat myself up so much that if anyone was critical of me it put me over the edge

Pre D-Day I was starting to realize that I am hyper-sensitive in general, I just don't let anyone see it, so it just builds & builds resentment & anger. Now, post D-Day I am constantly on edge & my emotions are a lot closer to the surface. I, like you, am my worse critic, now that I've read your post, I see that maybe this is the source of some of my issues.
Thought provoking.

my WH CANNOT have a true mature adult relationship with anyone.

I believe this is true for my H as well - though not to the extreme of Mr. Dishonest. The kind of things Tryn has suggested - not just Retrouvaille, but also when he talked about not wearing a mask, etc. I have resisted because I know (yes - I really know) my H is really just not capable of that. To be honest, I didn't need that kind of intimacy before - didn't even think about it- but now I see the lack of same as an inherent problem in our relationship & I also believe that my H may only be capable of a very superficial kind of relationship. I've seen it in other ways beyond just our relationship - in that he still thinks selfishly - like a few weeks ago - our night was cut short because of an issue with 1 of our kids. While disappointing, I was able to get over it, whereas he was brooding for quite a while. Even he will acknowledge that I matured faster than he has (which I don't think he meant as a compliment. Lol.)

Lost Heart: I just had the chance to read the story of how the human race was started - omg- so funny - thank you.

All the time I have for now -I hope to check in later - but for now there are sandwiches to make & whining children to wrangle.


Me- BS
DDay- 8/26/09
Separated after failed R effort.

Posts: 2165 | Registered: Nov 2009
atsenaotie
♂ Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 7:50 AM, June 9th (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Last night while we talked FWW held eye contact. She has never done this before, and I never realized how beautiful her eyes are.


LTA BS 53
FWW 60
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Reconciled

Posts: 3967 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
iwantamiracle
♀ Member
Member # 22812
Default  Posted: 8:00 AM, June 9th (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

ats:

Last night while we talked FWW held eye contact. She has never done this before, and I never realized how beautiful her eyes are.

i swear i want to cry, this is so beautiful....your wife is so lucky ats, your heart is so open to her...and it appears she's is open to you as well....

being here on the sidelines watching through your posts gives me such an inspiration...inspiration for what i am not sure...maybe its the inspiration of the human capacity to love...really really love...or the inspiration of another potentially happy "r" in progress....


i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
atsenaotie
♂ Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 8:08 AM, June 9th (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

FWW talked last night about her thinking she was using OM#2 for power and opportunity and attention, but now realizes he was using her. He did not want "her", he wanted what she gave him. OM#1 offered to have her move in with him and talked about being together. OM#2 just pressed her to tell him she loved him.

She related that up until a couple of weeks ago she would still get defensive and blame me or look for others to blame for her actions. This morning I stupidly provided her an opportunity for real anger towards me, and she was more than understanding.

She called me a beautiful man, and related how painful it is to see the hurt in my eyes and watch what I am going through.

FWW has changed, she really has. Now I am worried I am going to screw things up


LTA BS 53
FWW 60
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Reconciled

Posts: 3967 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
old dipstick
♂ Member
Member # 25598
Default  Posted: 9:19 AM, June 9th (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

miracle. How often do I explain this? You made me laugh. I bet you were proud of yourself when you wrote that question. I do not explain it often. It is not something I talk about at get togethers with family or friends. It does not seem to come up (come up? Feel free to make fun of me for writing that) while I am at the Home Depot/Lowes/Wal-mart/ or auto parts place. I have explained these things several times here in the SI forums and via SI PM. I just said that in case someone out there was saying to themselves, "there goes dip with that same old catch-22 story again."

That little chick devil sitting on your mother hen shoulder is laughing pretty hard huh? That is good to hear.

nofun. Thanks. I agree that all of our WS have mental issues. We BSs might even have one or two small mental issues. Of course we get the gift of the huge mental issue of trauma nad betrayal that our WSs have provided for us.

Fake or normal hard? I don't think that matters to a man. Just as long as it is hard and can do its job.

Allgood. You are smart. Love those pats on the back. You were right about biting your tounge. (I must say that with all this talk of sex, ed, tounges, and biting, someone should be making a joke here) If this issue is going to be discussed, the tone needs to be understsnding and non-insulting. I bet that talking that way would be a little more difficult for a BW.

Emotionally stupid. That is probably partially right about most men. I think a better term for this could be emotionally simple. Why waste time talking? We need to just get it on? Make her feel good, and have a good time too.

tryn. Good to see you. I liked the picture.

Hugs to the tribe.


Her WW 60
Me BH 60
M 36 yr
D-day#1 fall of 76 OM#1 2NS
D-day#2 summer of 89 OM#2 LTA 8 yrs OM#3 Short Term A


Posts: 751 | Registered: Sep 2009
iwantamiracle
♀ Member
Member # 22812
Default  Posted: 12:25 PM, June 9th (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

ats:

She called me a beautiful man,

this woman is getting smarter everyday...


dip: so i made you laugh.. ...thats really good, noone wants to laugh alone....

and yes dip i am proud of myself, for sooo many things.... ....and the stuff i am not so proud of, i will calmly state..."the devil made me do it"... ....hey i wonder if any ws's tried that one yet..?


i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
atsenaotie
♂ Member
Member # 27650
Frustrated  Posted: 3:38 PM, June 9th (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Well, the weekend is going to start early. There was mis-communication between FWW and stepdaughter#1. SD#1 is arriving this evening and will be with us until Sunday.

She is the one that over Xmas twice tore into me about what a bad parent I have been to my older son and how I ruined her life too because I was a mean stepfather and never loved FWW. At that time FWW sat by and did not intervene, and later said she thought it was good for SD#1 to express her feelings to me.

FWW also catches hell from SD#1 because SD#1 blames FWW too for being a bad mother ruining her life (like Mother like Daughter? ), so FWW is on edge too.

breathe, relax, calm....

Well, we will see what the thousands of dollars in counselling and a dozen books on relationships and communication actually has done for me.

Is it being a coward to decide I need to go do some work on the boat tonight to get it ready for Sunday?

--Ats

[This message edited by atsenaotie at 3:40 PM, June 9th (Wednesday)]


LTA BS 53
FWW 60
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Reconciled

Posts: 3967 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
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