forgive - you hit a note...my H is emotionally disabled. He has been diagnosed with ADD and his famous last words have always been...."I'm Bored." I'm so sick of hearing it. I was also thinking that because all of us are married to the "emotionally disabled"...that we don't have the time to have our own emotional disabilities...we are too busy with "theirs". And then again...I think...."it's all about them" anyway!! When is it my turn?
M3 - You handled yourself so well. I think I would have had to walk away. When subjects of A's come up I can actually feel my chest tightening. I have just learned of 2 more A's at my H's place of work. I have to let this go...but I know one of the wives and it's eating me inside.
My 1 yr. dday antiversary has passed...I cried the other night. I don't cry as often anymore but that hurt and disappointment will remain. I did tell H that our M will never be the same, I will never feel the same about him and that the intimacy that we share sometimes disgusts me because I think of him with her...(I was more graphic). He doesn't respond. The weird thing is, we get along in every other aspect, we can have fun together, we work well together, we enjoy our family, we are civil to one another, and I'm sure he is ok with the intimacy...but I'm not. It's the intimacy that gets in the way. I can't get past the mind movies and the horrible feelings I get when night time comes and I think "oh God, is he going to want sex tonight?" Does this get better?
you are not your past,
you get to create from now,
who you want to be
you can use your past
as a way to strengthen
who you want to be!!!
i loved it when i heard it....i hope it helps...
honest: of course he is still saying all those things, he still wants what he wants...and he won't stop, probably ever...unless when the divorce is final and he gets his balls twisted...then he might stop...but i somehow doubt it...people like him aren't used to losing, and will do whatever it takes to win...and right now that is what you are to him...the prize...and of course the biggest ego stroke ever..
allgood: happy family unity day my friend...if nothing else you started your family on your wedding day...we will be here for you
i think you need to be able to tell your wife what you need exactly from her...
and i think you both need regular appts with counselers....
fun: its good that every other part of your marriage is good, and fun...i think the rest will come with time and consistent effort by your wh...i hope it does...
m3: something else struck me...why the hell are you doing so much, boat line, kids, etc...time for you to emancipate yourself...and tell the wh of yours that he needs to step it up a notch...or 2, or step it up period!!!!
my little charge will be here any minute so i need to go for now, but will def check in later...
Since there was no internet, finding info and talking to others anonymously was not possible. It is so easy to talk about things here isn't it?
The weird thing is, we get along in every other aspect, we can have fun together, we work well together, we enjoy our family, we are civil to one another, and I'm sure he is ok with the intimacy...but I'm not. It's the intimacy that gets in the way. I can't get past the mind movies and the horrible feelings I get when night time comes and I think "oh God, is he going to want sex tonight?" Does this get better?
[This message edited by forgivenotforget at 5:05 PM, June 15th (Tuesday)]
That boat is almost too big for two people to run. You've got to drive it from up top -- so one person drives and one gets the lines... maybe I'll learn to drive
As far as doing more, stepping up, he's getting better and better every day. My one friend keeps saying: baby steps, baby steps. (and she doesn't even know about the A -- it's just that the surprise gift of Baby Paddy makes it clear that everyone needs to step it up at my place.)
You know what I need? I need booger's box! I need a box I can put it all in so that I'm not so mopey around my friends. I'm getting mopey. I don't like it.
So, I told my H about my friends comments and why I was upset and his response was "I'm sorry you feel sad. I love you."
Where do you even go with another person when that's all they've got?
I called my sister and I was like, "really? REALLY? that's all he's got?" I actually don't think my H is remorseful. He's just sorry he got caught. Who the heck knows? He doesn't even understand why that would be an inadequate and/or insulting response. I know he doesn't, which is why I just said to myself, F'it at least he said something nice and supportive as opposed to getting defensive or starting a fight over it. Baby steps, baby steps.
My sister gave me a big reality check -- she said "listen to me, he's going to disappoint you. He just is. Almost every time. Stop expecting more, then you won't be so surprised by what you get every time that you're then unable to deal with what you're getting."
"I'm sorry you feel sad."
Watching A-Team with my boys last night was great therapy. Not sure it would do much for the you ladies (was that sexist?), but dip and Tryn I heartily recommend it. Ignore the critics and enjoy the action.
As I was heading to bed, FWW asked if I wanted to talk. It was an awkward start, but we did talk. I told her where the problems had been for me over the weekend and in general. She told me thought she had been supportive. I pointed out that she spent Thursday evening with SD#1 and then we had a fight, Friday she did not talk to me until people started to show up in the afternoon, and then it was a hug and with a panicked look in her eyes asking if I was OK. Saturday she slept in until just before the cookout, we did not talk much during that day, as I was busy preparing/cooking/changing reservations, etc. and we had a fight after the graduation. Sunday we did not talk. She might have been supportive during the times we were not fighting or not talking, but I did not sense it.
I asked what she wanted and how we would get there. She said she was going to be nicer and hoped we would get better. I pointed out that hoping is passive, and the same as during our M when she hoped things would get better without saying anything to me. Right now, she feels hopeless, and that does not give me much confidence. She did acknowledge that for most of our M she would not share her opinion, she would just assume I knew better and then be resentful. She was angry with me, angry at work, angry with her X, and angry with her DD’s. She expected me, and her X, to know instinctively what she needed to be happy and to provide that. She said that in the M I was a good husband, but that her anger ruined it. Two decades shot and gone to Hell.
We are still nowhere near where we were a week or two ago. I do not know if I can find my way back. After we talked a while, (talk is not the right word), she offered me foot and back rubs. I felt awkward accepting, but afterwards felt closer and we hugged. It pisses me off though that she can do such a simple thing and I am like a puppy feeling happy and better, but what can I do for her? I ask her and she says she does not want anything. All she ever had to do was throw me a bone, a little sex and affection and I was happy. I was not able to make her happy; she found others to do that. Hating me, she eventually found one, then another, and another, and another OM to make her happy. These were all in the last 8 years. How many others do I not know about and never will?
On the upside, with drinking cut back and my appitite gone again I am losing some more weight. Another 5 pounds and I will just be fat, not obese.
ETA: I was pleasantly suprised that FWW told me she had scheduled an appointment with IC/MC for Friday. She did this before the weekend.
[This message edited by atsenaotie at 9:13 AM, June 15th (Tuesday)]
I was not able to make her happy; she found others to do that. Hating me, she eventually found one, then another, and another, and another OM to make her happy.
[This message edited by forgivenotforget at 9:55 AM, June 15th (Tuesday)]
How many others do I not know about and never will?
[This message edited by forgivenotforget at 10:07 AM, June 15th (Tuesday)]
BATHING SUIT SHOPPING
Ugh. I've always, always had a good body image. Until now. Thanks a lot, darling husband.
Why on earth am I putting myself through trying to R? I must be some sort of masochist.
ATS -- read the five love languages. Touch is proably one of your big ones.
My #1, followed by quality time. Her language is service and words of affirmation. When FWW and I read the book, it really opened up understanding of where we had gone wrong. Honestly, it is amazing we lasted as long as we did knowing what we know now.
m3: o.k. so now we know i don't know boats... ...then he just needs to be told to lighten up or go scratch himself.....
and as for bathing suit shopping..hell woman you just had a baby...cut yourself some slack on something puleeze.... .....
fnf: thank you so much for your thoughtful posts. I believe you are right. So many of the WS's seem to have some kind of problem. It would only make common sense that anyone who has a LTA MUST have some kind of a problem!!! <sigh>
Miracle: congrats on the gradution and all the fun things that are happening. Focus on the good stuff, and even pretend for a while that all is right with the world!
Nofun: My WH and I have always gotten along, no major fights, we were affectionate, and caring and I thought, respectful. We still are to a degree. WH says the horrible things he says to me when I call him on his behaviour or "corner" him. It's so sad. In your case, I feel, there is hope. There is a possibility that it can get better.
That brings me to something that fnf has been discussing about so many of our WS's have a "problem" of some kind, either emotional, mentally or a personality disorder (or even a lot of traits if they are not all out diagnosed)
For years, I acknowledged things about my WH that I understood and accepted were a part of him...his faults and shortcomings. I started to accept MORE and MORE unacceptable behavior in the name of love. "for better or for worse". I think a lot of us have accepted the "unacceptable" for years and years. It became part of the "norm" or only an inevitable part of marriage with the ups and downs. Of course there were good things the saving graces, but I believe a lot of us were probably becoming resentful too. THEN, our reward? To be presented with an LTA.
I can only speak for myself, but all the gaslighting, blameshifting, etc. furthered knocked me down more and more until the point I was willing to accept only the crumbs of crumbs.
Yes, they are broken people. For a long time, I believed everything WH said. I still trusted him with everything.
I didn't want to put a label on him. IC suggested NPD, even DS 15 said he had ADD (not joking). I believe that he has a lot of the traits, if he is not full fledged.
So, it's hard to R with a person who has problems, especially when those problems make it very hard for them to deal with themselves, let alone someone else who has pain.
There's another thing, food for thought: Someone I know was a WF (fiance). He told me that he wasn't happy with himself and that he loved his fiancee with all his heart. She was too good. She was an angel. He almost felt he wasn't good enough for her. It was almost as if he cheated because he wanted to make a self fullfilling prophecy: he wasn't good enough for her. he was no good.
My WH always said I was an angel. He tells all his family how good I am and how much of an angel I am. Sometimes I feel that he didn't want to leave me because I was "too good", yet.......I don't know where I'm going with this.
One other thing I did want to bring up to you guys and it bothers me so much. So many of my WH's family says that they hate OW and I should "fight" for my rights. I should go overseas and not let her have everything her own way. I don't understand!!! If I go over there, yes, he'll have to divide his time between the 2 of us. Perhaps, I'll even get more time, BUT I'm still going to share him. They don't seem to understand this. WH lied to them too, telling them he divorced her and is just with her because of the OC's. I was 'chatting" with WH's nephew via facebook and he said noone wanted to get involved to make it bad between me and WH!!!
All this just confuses me to no end. I'm still hanging on to the illusion of a thread of hope. IC says why am I doing this? Why don't I let go? Right now I know it's me. I really don't want to let go, and I know I have to for my own sanity. I guess that's why I've been so down. It's not the rollercoaster this time. It's reality hitting me in the head. But the thought that I could actually "fight" for WH gives me some kind of hope..... but I'm crazy.
I guess I need some 2x4's.
Thanks for listening.
Hugs to all, especially those who are having anniversaries and "antiversaries"
How many others do I not know about and never will?
As for happiness, FNF is right. Here’s a quote:
People spend a lifetime searching for happiness; looking for peace. They chase idle dreams, addictions, religions, even other people, hoping to fill the emptiness that plagues them. The irony is the only place they ever needed to search was within.
So many of my WH's family says that they hate OW and I should "fight" for my rights.
WH lied to them too, telling them he divorced her and is just with her because of the OC's. I was 'chatting" with WH's nephew via facebook and he said noone wanted to get involved to make it bad between me and WH!!!
You are not letting go, you are staying YOUR side of the fence and asking him to join you there. If you were letting go, you would be sorting out your divorce. That is not what you want and that is the line you are sticking to. Your marriage is the better place to be . (((((honest)))))
BATHING SUIT SHOPPING
Ugh. I've always, always had a good body image. Until now. Thanks a lot, darling husband.
You think you look the same as you did when you got married? I'd bet not. Even if you do, you haven't spent the last 10 years having babies (the ones YOU wanted) and sacrificing your body for them. The next time you have to have someone stitch your asshole together because your just pushed a watermelon out of your butt, then you can squawk. If you ever spend 9 months with your belly stretched to obscene proportions, and manage to look exactly the same as you used to 6 weeks later, then you can bitch about how she's not attractive anymore. Until then, shut the fuck up. You have no concept of what she has sacrificed to give you the children you claim to love. You really think she wants varicose veins and stretch marks and saggy boobs? Get real. What she wants is a man who understands and values WHY she has varicose veins and stretch marks and saggy boobs. She wants a man who loves her because she was willing to make those sacrifices with her own body because she loves HIM. Instead, you criticize and go running off with the first perky 25 year old who gives you the time of day. Asshole.
Of course, there is more, nofun:
We all know how bored you are. Poor you, someone should really come along to entertain you. What are you, fucking 12 years old? If you're bored with your marriage, it's because YOU'RE BORING, and have you ever stopped to think that if you're bored, she probably is too.
Okay, I’m done with “quotes for the day”
Honest: I wish I could say something constructive/helpful to what is going on with you, but as you will see below, I am extremely hostile at the moment. But, your family doesn't get it, clearly. And, stop accepting crumbs. I am seriously questioning the need to have any man in my life at the moment (other than my father, Dip, Tryn & Ats, lol).
M3: Bathing suit shopping?!? Obviously you are already in better shape than most moms or you wouldn't even be entertaining such an idea. Unlike you, I've always had a poor body image. That I lost 15lbs from all this nonsense, made it a little easier, but still post-DDay it's hard not to think of yourself as being inadequate in a lot of ways, even though we know they are just A-holes.
So, I'm a bit angry today on my 15th wedding anniversary. Miracle - my kids have no idea that today is my anniversary so there's no need to do family unity day - tho - with all the activities scheduled for this evening - 2 kids in 2 dif sports 3 towns apart- there aren't a lot of options anyway
If y'all remember, I told my H I didn't see any reason to celebrate, but after some things Miracle said, I called my H today to tell him that I was still going to be upset & then I tried my best to put a positive spin on the event, fighting back tears the whole time.
Whoever said that these ws are disabled in one way or another is a frickin genius. He basically said nothing other than to agree with me. I called him out on it & all I got was he's upset that that's how I feel about our anniversary & he would've liked to have gone out to do something, but if that's not what I want then that's fine. O - and he did wish me a "Happy Wednesday" this morning - thought of that all on his own.
I'm just so pissed off right now. I spend every day of my life tormented by this crap - thinking of ways to make things better, etc. The whole reason why I told him I didn't want to celebrate was because I didn't want to be put in a situation where he was being kind & thoughtful about it & I wouldn't be able to reciprocate because that's not how I feel about our anniversary anymore. Thinking about him, see? I seriously think he didn't give this an ounce of thought before I mentioned it. He didn't even know what day of the week our anniversary was (which was important given the scheduled activities). Now I admit, some of this may be a gender difference as to the importance of an anniversary, but seriously? After all the crap that happened in the pasta year - no light bulb goes off & says I need to stretch out of my comfort zone & show her how much she means to me? My H has told me that I am too good for him too. And, you know what - he's right. He just doesn't seem capable of a mature relationship - the A is just his style - go out & party & have sex - nothing more serious than that. I guess I just need to see more of an emotional commitment from him to really more forward.
Sorry bout the rant... I feel a bit better already, tho I have to say, I feel bad for the complete A-hole who is representing himself against me in court today because he is going to feel my wrath man!
yup i feel sorry for the person you are against today in court, or anywhere...
He basically said nothing other than to agree with me. I called him out on it & all I got was he's upset that that's how I feel about our anniversary & he would've liked to have gone out to do something, but if that's not what I want then that's fine. O - and he did wish me a "Happy Wednesday" this morning - thought of that all on his own.
what did you want to hear him say allgood?
The whole reason why I told him I didn't want to celebrate was because I didn't want to be put in a situation where he was being kind & thoughtful about it & I wouldn't be able to reciprocate because that's not how I feel about our anniversary anymore. Thinking about him, see?
but why would you have to reciprocate?...you could have just told him that "for you" you couldn't reciprocate because of everything, and then let it be,putting the ball in his court, and seeing if he would then honor the day or really honor you....instead of negating the day alltogether...you kind of put him into a lose lose sich....damned if he does and damned if he doesn't...we already know that his communication skills suck, we already know that he doesn't think the way you do, and he doesn't think period....he doesnt have those skills YET....now he is in ic where hopefully he will learn some, but until then he is still very much a broken man who is basically doing as he is told since d-day, because he knows no other way....just food for thought....
and yes is SUCKS that you would even have to put yourself into the position of guide....but unfortunately that is the sad reality...if he knew how to do the right thing, you wouldn't be here...
no light bulb goes off
he may not even have that light bulb right now....at best, maybe a nite light...
I guess I just need to see more of an emotional commitment from him to really more forward.
what exactly do you need to see for you to feel this from him?
Sorry bout the rant
no need to apologize, that wasnt even much of a rant ...come on back later and really go at it...
i sincerely hope the day holds surprises for you today allgood...
ukgirl: love those rants and the quote..
The only moment that matters is now. How he is (in my eyes) NOW.
a couple months ago you also stated that you choosing to stay with the man he is now, i tried to actually apply this to my sich...i decided that i would look at it that way and see then if "r" would be possible....for me it ended with finding out some more activity on pfm's part...i don't know if he is involved with an ow or not, but what i do know is that he still feels compelled to hide things, he still feels compelled to lie, and he still refuses to be completely transparent....so i decided then and there that i was permamently done, never looking back again and i could do so with a totally clear head and heart...i know he can never be the man i need, or deserve....so i have chosen my path of least regret....last nite in ic, i told my c about the trigger i had last week with that movie, about seeing what it is to be a hole, i broke down completely again....and i told her seeing a really "nice" version of it just made it feel so much worse....she then asked me if that was my only bad sexual encounter and it was...no history for me coming up just that nite, which basically was a pivotal moment for me, that nite changed me, changed who i was, here i am more then 10 years later and i still feel that pain.... ...and now knowing why that nite happened just makes it that much worse, as if it werent bad enough....
oh well, it is what it is...i will come to terms with this eventually,....i know i want to....and i intend to...i will grieve, i will get mad, and then i will let go...its the letting go part that is hard...the other parts are easy to do, ...but i am determined....i will not let that bastard rob me of anymore...i will take the rest of 'me' back....boy di i go off tangent or what...
need to go now, my charge needs some attention...bbl
Sigh. So many hugs needed today, and no adequate words for comfort.
And, you know what - he's right. He just doesn't seem capable of a mature relationship - the A is just his style - go out & party & have sex - nothing more serious than that. I guess I just need to see more of an emotional commitment from him to really more forward.
I'm not having a mature/emotional relationship with WH. I think he's starting to notice. Very interesting.
Have you considered that? Taking a step back, doing a mini-180 and having what you might call a casual-sex hookup, party, booty call or whatever kind of relationship with your WH? See if he notices? I know, I know, it sounds weird. But there is some eloquence to it in a way -- does he notice? Does he care? How does it make you feel? Etc. IDK, maybe I'm just confusing everyone. It's a nice break from things though. Oh -- and make sure he's doing his share with the kids, house, etc. Go out and leave them with him, on approximately the same schedule that, I don't know, he'd have VISITATION if you D. If he complains, charge neutral and tell him it's in his best interest; that he needs to learn how to deal with them and these things in case you're unable to work the M out.
I think I'm on the PLF. Maybe that's why I'm ready to read these books and do all this work. It is A LOT of work. Apparently I'm still pretty F'ed up even after 5 years of IC. Of course, gaslight-o-saurus didn't really help matters along. There's nothing quite like being gaslighted when you're already having delusions to really screw with a person's mind. Wow.
Bathing suit shopping --
Yes, the body. It's down to about an 8, but the post-baby gut is still there. A friend told me about a great company that makes cool suits with control, so I'm going to get one, but I have NO IDEA what size to get because apparently my chest is 5 SIZES bigger than my hips. Stinking nursing.
Anyway, OW hsan't had a baby in 5 years and she's all fit and in shape -- and I KNOW that doesn't have a darn thing to do with anything really, because I was only 28 and super-cute and really thin, etc. when he started up his A with her again but ugh I know she's probably got plenty over me in his mind but in mine all she's got is that she happens to be fitter than me *right now* AAGH. I hate, hate, hate that I'm even in a position where I feel compelled to compare myself to another woman. I have NEVER, EVER done that before. I have NEVER EVER felt less attractive than another woman -- ok. I'll just stop. I swear, I feel like posting pics of me and OW and letting y'all judge. Give me my 2X4.
what did you want to hear him say allgood?
What I wanted him to say is "I know you don't think this is a day to celebrate, but I am very happy that we are still together and I think the day I married you was the best decision of my life. I know you may not feel committed to our marriage now, and I know I haven't shown a commitment to our marriage in the past, but I am 100% committed to you and our family and look forward to spending many more anniversaries with you."
Something along those lines.
You kind of put him into a lose lose sich....damned if he does and damned if he doesn't
Yes - I see your point. To be honest, I sort of saw that point before, but did what I did anyway. I really, really don't like being disappointed, so I'd rather be the one to "decide" the day is nothing special than be disappointed by whatever he was going to do. And, there was the reciprocation issue. I don't know why I feel that way. I guess I know it would be so hard for him to do something nice (this is all theoretical, of course) and didn't have the heart to make it negative by not sharing his views.
I dont know - I see your point, but, maybe I'm just not explaining this properly.
As far as seeing an emotional commitment - I read someting in "Not Just Friends" which said something like it's easier to have an affair when you haven't invested a lot in the relationship. She likened it to a broken car or something- if you just put in a new engine, you won't sell it, etc. (I think). Anyway, I guess the superficial relationship, while pleasant, to me doesn't rule out that he isn't still having an affair, or capable of having another affair, if that makes sense.
I want him to do some soul searching. I want him to talk to me about his feelings, worries, etc.
This was never him, but I think he needs to gain some of these skills & quick. I cannot believe how many times I have thought "F this" over the past week.
M3: If I engaged in a "booty call" like relationship with my H he would not only notice, he would be the happiest person alive. I don't even know how I could fake this since I'm so annoyed.
And, size 8! That's fantastic - the mommy pouch takes awhile to wither away & even though they say nursing burns more calories, I've always found the pouch remains until after I stopped nursing. AND.... your boobs are 5x bigger than your hips?!? Isn't that every woman/man's fantasy?
I don't know what to make of all these random (?) catastrophess in your life. Be careful tho.
And about OW- mine is 10 years younger with a perfect body & a great outlook on life that allows her to carry on with my husband guilt-free - even lettinghim have sex with me too, never demanding to end it. What a girl!
Ok, I could go on & on, but I seriously have work to do...
Allgood -- today isn't over. Why not make an effort to turn it around? I know, it shouldn't have to be you who makes the effort, but just do it anyway. You never know, it might be one of the defining moments of your life.
Sadly, the big boobs just make me look fat.
Your OW -- forget her. She's nothing. My one friend summed it up -- men are less complicated than us, if they don't love you and don't want to R then when you catch them they just throw their hands up and say "you're right, you caught me" and they move in with OW.
My adage is this: if you're going to cheat, pick someone who is younger, smarter, better looking and makes more money than your spouse -- not one of them; all of them -- otherwise it's not worth it. Even then, if your spouse boots you out and all you have left is the OP, you're left with someone who would cheat or who condones cheating.