I had to reply just to give you a virtual ((hug)).
Dday I was knocked flat on my face and couldn't even sit up. I kept getting knocked down and was told it was my fault. Now, I'm knocked to my knees, but seem to be stuck here. Is it so wrong to want to depend on someone? Someone you loved and thought loved you? To feel fulfilled because you thought and believed you were loved? Am I really crazy?? Did I depend on him too much in that way...emotionally?
I know how you feel. WH betrayed me, my parents betrayed me; there is nowhere to go but up from here. Hang in there.
I can't even imagine what you are going through. I don't have any words that could make you feel better. Just know I care.
honest. You are not wrong about how you have felt. None of this is your fault. All of us here have been given a plate of crap to deal with. Your plate is just piled really high. I do not know how you have handled all of this. Despite all of your ups and downs, you have done good. It was o.k. to hold out hope that he could change. Your hope helped you get this far. It is sad that he is so mean to you. He just wants his way. He is not going to change. You need to do what is best for you. You deserve better. I have seen a saying from another man here on SI. It goes something like this. There are some things worse than D, one of them is sharing your W. Just switch H for W and I think you can see how this applies to you.
miracle. You did not answer my question in my last post. I need to know these things.
Hugs to the tribe.
Is it so wrong to want to depend on someone?
no, what is wrong is depending on someone to the point that we lose sense of self.AND..in marriage we are supposed to depend on our spouses...
Someone you loved and thought loved you?
again this is what marriage is supposed to be a partnership in love
To feel fulfilled because you thought and believed you were loved?
and again this is what is supposed to be in marriage!!
Am I really crazy??
no, you loved this man with your entire being and heart
Did I depend on him too much in that way...emotionally?
only now can you say that you depended on him too much emotionally, only now did he show you who he really is...only now ....back then, how could you know....how could any of us have known....we are all guilty of all this and then i guess we are all crazy right along with you...
until you get her to a doctor, work her mucles for her, move her legs like she is biking when you are having some down time with her...move all her muscles as much as possible to help build what is there and to keep what is there from atrophy
i remember when i was little one of my mom's friends had a son who had issues with his legs, i think he had cp....and i remember her having to do all these exercises with his legs to keep them from developing further atrophy and i also remember a cousin of mine also with cp that had to do all these exercises...
it is at least something to do until you find out what is wrong with her..and please just update us now and then...we are praying for her...
Please explain rig atshi and theose mudnd.
alas dip i cannot explain...only can tell you what happened...my fingers didn't keep up with me...had so much to say (imagine that ) and my fingers went one way while my mind was quite another..i also cannot spell when i type, i hit all the wrong letters...so what i was trying to say...i haven't got a clue.. ....at least not exactly!!! i mean i have no clue what those words were supposed to be.......i think i will take up drinking on a regular basis...at least then my excuses will have some kind of valid blameshifting...
Your H has just given you the best gift he could ever have given you. He has set you free. You know now EXACTLY where you stand with him.
I wish I wish there to help you IRL because I KNOW how devastated you must feel.
So cry, rant, kick, bake( ) whatever you need to do. I am sure the Tribe can think of a couple of errr 'innovative' ideas.
Its going to feel like crap for awhile and thats ok too. But oneday in the near future, you are going to pick yourself up, execute your exit plan and learn to fly!
And Honest, lets be honest.
You want someone to love and to love you, someone you can depend on, trust knowing that he had your back. When you look back, you will see that your H never really did any of that. YOU did.
And one last thing from someone who has also endured PPP (piss poor parenting), its never too late to challenge the legacy that that has given us. We WILL do better for our kids and for ourselves.
Big big hugs, my dear.
Big hugs also to the others who are going through a tough time. I just caught up with the posts and it seems like theres just something in there...
Anyhow, heard this song for the first time this morning even though its been out for some time. It made me smile. Its Joshua Radin's Brand New Day
I am sorry to sound so obtuse and I have thought and thought about this and I still dont get it - what exactly are you doing with the alligators? And on purpose? Why?
Fnf and Miracle,
You both are awesome.
Mind what you love. Mind how you are loved.
He thinks I am having an A/unprofessional relationship with someone. HE accuses my managers of flirting with me (and vice versa) when I stupidly told him of the compliments I got on my hard work (I thought he would be proud, silly me). That man is truly clueless.
You know what bugs me just a little. If I let it. He has become quite the gardener - reading, subscribing to mags, planting and propogating or whatever. He can spend ALL the time and energy on his project and yet wont do the same for me or the kids. Last night he come home late from work (hadnt seen the kids since night before) and went straight to his garden. Didnt even look on the kids sleeping or ask after them. He wont see them again till tomorrow morning so 48hrs with no contact, not even a call to them.
DS was admonishing young DD this evening about leaving her dirty socks in the lounge and older DD stated sarcastically that he would grow up to be a perfect mother because he is always at them to do/dont do this or that. When I asked her why not the perfect father, she said thats cos fathers dont care about stuff like that.I knew she was not just referring to the chores but most aspects of her life - she often yells at H or cries to me that he just doesnt care about her.
I emphasised that DS is going to be a GREAT dad one day (hopefully not for a long time!)and he will teach his children right and wrong. I want all 3 of them to know that there are good dependable loving and nurturing men out there.
For the footie fans: GO ENGLAND!!!
You have all written such wonderful words and encouragement. I will get back to each individually soon.
I was doing ok today, but whenever I really thought about it, I started breaking down. The other day when I posted about WH saying I was a pessimist and you guys said I was the opposite, I have to thank you.
I realize that many of you probably wanted to say WAKE UP to me over all this time. I know I"ve read some threads when I could see clearly what was happening, but the poster didn't or couldn't. I know I was like that. I was existing on that last thread of hope. Even IC was wondering why I was doing it. Why? Just feeling that I was still loved, I was important, I wasn't rejected and abandoned because I wasn't good enough even though I tried my hardest. To give up that hope was to face the real truth and the enormity of it all.
Even WH said yesterday that he doesn't want to give me false hope that he'll ever divorce OW.
Wh was saying how he suffered all these years. How I wanted him to hold me up emotionally. I told him yes, there were times that I was down and I needed his support and I gave him mine. Then he says he didn't want to talk about it anymore. I drive him crazy and he wouldn't have put up with me if he didn't love me.
Dip, sometimes I think he has BPD because I was walking on eggshells too...always trying to please him. There was another poster in another thread who said he didn't know if his WW had NPD, BPD, ADD or whatever, all he knew was she was messed up!!!!
It's so easy to paste a label on WH. I know he has a lot of traits of NPD. We've been together for 22 years (married for 18). It's a long time to act semi-normal.
I'm sorry, I'm all over the place today.
Hugs to everyone, especially, M2 and Baby Paddy. You are in my prayers.
Thank you all ...my LTA family and angels.
Plus, my H gave me an ultimatum. He said if things didn't change (meaning me and how I can't let my walls down)by labor day, he was throwing in the towel. He said he can't take it anymore that he doesn't think it's going to work.
He said "he is what he is" and I'm not going to get what I need from him because he is incapable of giving it. He wants me to do all the work and I can't do it.
I said fine. So you are going to let me go because you are not willing to put yourself out there? He said it doesn't have to be this way. If only I would initiate affection, he would reciprocate.
I can't even explain what I am feeling. I'm numb.
the irony...he fucks up and wnat you to fix it... .....which basically means he doesnt know how....so he wants you to make it all better...it sounds like you may need to check in with his ic and get his take on it...oh fun i am so so sorry...i was so hoping he would step up a bit by now....how did you manage not to show him the door???....
(((((honest)))) we are here for you...and i gotta tell ya...lh2 is on the money, he has set you free...and to turn it around the way he does...he is classic...please don't buy anything that man says...as ukgirl would say he is a 'fuckwit'....
lh2: you rock my friend you totally rock...you sound so strong....what did you do with the kids for your lost child?...i do miss you here, we are such a cool group of peeps here on the lta board...we are a unique bunch...
pfm and i went to family therapy, this is the one that is supposed to focus on co-parenting and my kids...well pfm turned so much of into marital therapy...i guess he is not getting it yet that there is no marriage...he is exhausting....he had the nerve to want me to forgive him, says he is a nice guy..of course i am taking some of his words out of context of the sich...but he still wants forgiveness, asking for it, and says i should talk to him because he is a nice guy....well blow me the fuck down... ....
m3 i am reading that book and so far i cannot believe how many point there are that i should have left this man years and years ago...so many points that he is too bad to stay on....mind boggling actually...
Fun: I'm glad you got your cry out. The puffy eyes - I know that too well - mine puff up at the slightest appearance of sadness and take forever to go down.
I think checking in with his IC would be a great idea. I don't think it's an infringement at all. If your H is really like mine, he doesn't do much soul searching there either - so there's no invastion of privacy.
Also, do you think he could just be patient with you? You being "over it" by Labor Day is completely unrrealistic. Could the 2 of you come up with some smaller milestones or progress to aim for that date instead?
I'm about to have a heart to heart with my H... It's times like this I really had at least 1 of you in my ear coaching me through it...
And the thought of my H & Fun's H at a bar together bitchin & moanin about us bitchin & moanin just popped into my head.
[This message edited by Allgoodnamesgone at 9:34 PM, June 24th (Thursday)]
good luck on that heart to heart....remember keep it to simple terms, simple sentences....plant lots of seeds, then water them thoroughly....
and i disagree with you allgood on fun's husband...there should be no time limit...he has no business giving her an ulitmatum....and he def has no business telling her she should be over it...he should have though long and hard way before now about his actions...and at this point he's got no rights persay to be callin any kind of shots....i do believe the man needs a bit more time and clear directions....he apparantly needs them...but thats it.....then its up to him to either do the work, or sadly find the door...provided of course that is what fun wants...and fun its really ok to not have a clue about what that is....to really know what we want after this...is just overwhelming and what we really want we cannot have, and what we need seems to be out of reach...or is it...so damned confusing half the time....i remember that push pull feeling well....and i remember never knowing which way i was going...sometimes from minute to minute....thats why a clear head and heart are necessary, first comes the requirements, which should be the absolute deal breakers...then comes the hard part....getting to that point that you do have that clear head and heart and know what you have to do....need to do....it stopped about being what we want on d-day, and now becomes about what we need to heal and move on one way or another...
Allgood - you made me laugh because thinking of your H and mine in a bar bitching about us is right on. They probably would both be saying that they don't understand why we keep carrying on about something that is in the past. At least mine doesn't get it and probably never will. So I don't have much hope.
I didn't know I could call his IC....I can? What would I ask?
I don't know about anyone else, but I find that my work is starting to suffer. I am just holding on by a thread. Things are getting done but I can't get motivated to produce more than what is necessary. It's worrisome. I took a xanax Wednesday night and when I woke up on Thursday I was like a zombie.
Ok enough....hugs to all of you!!
I never had the talk with the H - I really didn't have the energy & it was very late. Maybe over the weekend.
Fun: as soon as my bosses found out about my situation, they really reduced my case load - tho they deny it - I know it's true. And, even then - I'm putting in 10 hours to get what could get done in just 8 hours becauseI'm just very distracted.
As to the IC - tell your H why you think it would be helpful for you to talk to IC. Then have IC call & tell IC it's ok for him/her to talk to you (confidentiality rules y'know..). Then go in and talk away - ask him/her whatever you want to know about your H & how you feel & any suggestions, etc.
Ok - I gotta run or I'm gonna be late for work.
Peace to all.
[This message edited by Allgoodnamesgone at 7:13 AM, June 25th (Friday)]
And the thought of my H & Fun's H at a bar together bitchin & moanin about us bitchin & moanin just popped into my head.
Honest - I just wanted to send some more cyber hugs and I hope it's ok to say but I think if there was indeed a "fuckwit" club your H would be in the lead carrying the torch for this clueless group of men.
Miracle - I don't think Allgood was trying to say that there should be a time limit. I think she meant that if they could agree on setting some small milestones, perhaps Fun's H wouldn't feel so hopeless about a possible R. Also, it might help them both to feel more positive if there were signs of progress. No rushing, no time limits, but yes, I agree, small signs that their M is moving in the right direction.
LH - I am so glad to hear that you handled (wrong word but you know what I mean) this month so well. You are amazingly strong and YOU ARE AWESOME. You are an inspiration to us all.
Miracle - I'm curious. Even though your H turned your family session into a MC'ing session, did you feel that anything positive came out of it?? Did the C have any insight that helped you??
Did he have anything constructive for pfm that broke through his denseness.
M33 - I am so sorry to hear of baby Paddy. When is your appointment? Are you sure there is a problem or are you just suspecting this from her progress this far?
If you can, is it possible to get her to the pediatrician a little sooner just to ease your fears??
Hugs to the tribe!
i think if you call the ic and talk to him, ask him about all of this and tell him about this ridiculous ultimatum....it is ridiculous...its almost like he just wants it to be over and doesn't care what the outcome is, he just wants it over and doesn't have the capability of seeing into the future and how he might feel about this later....he has no clue how to percieve any consequences for his action...
as for the xanax...take a half, that what i take, i cannot take a whole one, so i take a half of the lw it makes and it just enough to take the edge off, it makes me somewhat drowsy too, but i usually sleep peacefully...and the next morn,...no lasting effects...
[This message edited by forgivenotforget at 7:50 AM, June 25th (Friday)]
therapy last nite:
, did you feel that anything positive came out of it?? Did the C have any insight that helped you??
Did he have anything constructive for pfm that broke through his denseness.
th only thing that came out of it that was postive is that the therapist finally saw what i couldn't seem to get across about pfm's ability to prioritize his role as a daddy....she kept chiding me on things that he wanted as a father...she wasn't getting the amount of damage he inflicted on my kids...and she wasn't getting that he needs to lighten up and pick and choose his battles..finally though last nite i think she finally witnessed it...and of course pfm did what he does best...talked in circles....and circles....and more circles....so i was happy that she got to witness that too.... ...it was an exhausting session...pfm thought it went well, thats because he had someone new listen to his side of things, he just loves to be heard...again and again and again...but it ended once again with me wanting to push him right out the fucking door...so i don't find that productive, i find that more destructive.....the man is so damned hung up on chores around the house he keeps missing the big picture, he keeps missing the whole damned reason i allow his ass to stay here....and more and more i am told, now even by this counseler that this is really not a healthy way for me to live....he so doesn't get it...then he gets mad because i still call him a liar...well stop saying how honest and truthful you are when i disagree....he gets mad that i won't "see" how changed he is...i do see how he changed but i also see what hasnt' changed...so stop putting your behavior in my face i tell him and i won't have the need to respond...i want to live in peace...this is not peace..
it just went on and on, and i finally at the end, while we were driving home, i looked at him and told him that i wanted him out of my life, but i can't have that right now, and he needs to understand how i feel for a change because he is pushing me to throw him out...so he needed to learn when to shut the hell up and back off....take this gift of an opportunity to repair the damage with my kids or fuck it up too....his choice...
he doesn't get the fact that if he is out of here, my kids will be lost to him...and i don't want that for my kids...
oh and the other kicker, i don't know if you remember that my dd found out about his extra-curriculars...well right now she is keeping the secret, because i asked her too, because i fear for manchild, i don't think he could handle it...but i also told him i don't believe in holding this secret forever...i don't believe in these kind of secrets...secrets like this destroy...well he wants her to keep his secret forever, he selfishly doesn't want her to tell the boys...and he wants me to force her to do therapy...which i tried to do...but this therapis looked at my daughter in the office when i finally was able to drag her there and told her, that "she" the counseler would never tell her parents to force her to come"..so what the fuck am i supposed to do now...i cannot force a 17 year old to OPEN UP to a therapist...she will be 18 in a few months...therapy cannot be forced..and now she knows that it would be forced....but he really believes therapy will save him...my dd going to therapy will save him to her and then make her see the light to not tell the boys...
are you sorry you asked now....
anyways my phone is ringing.....thanks for the opportunity to vent some more...he is a fuckwit too...
eta: about telling the secret to my boys...the therapist wanted to know what i would gain by telling them, what was my objective here for my boys...i answered her that my objective was for my ing tem i am sure ms point in time when i am telling them i am sure my marriage will be in divorce court and they have the right to know that there mother tried everything possible to maintain the family, they have the right to know how their family was destroyed....i also told her that too many people know and i don't want them to hear from anyone else....the therapist keeps saying that its a shame that my daughter found that email...well yeah she found it and we have to deal with it....keeping my boys in the dark will hurt my daughter....and if someone else tells them it will hurt them....i don't like these kinds of secrets within my household....i hold an enormous amount of other people's secrets....people shouldn't live their lives in anyway but truth....its how i have always lived...i don't have to worry about any secrets ever coming back to me...
i should add that if pfm and i were reconcilling then this would be not a secret but considered private business...kids do not need to know everything that goes on between their parents...unless you know that they will hear from someplace else...then you need to tell them in the healthiest way possible, so that they can deal with the outcome...
o.k. rambled on enough, that this should have been another post...
[This message edited by iwantamiracle at 8:53 AM, June 25th (Friday)]
the man is so damned hung up on chores around the house he keeps missing the big picture, he keeps missing the whole damned reason i allow his ass to stay here...
[This message edited by forgivenotforget at 8:45 AM, June 25th (Friday)]