1. Miracle and Honest: What the hell is wrong with you 2? Honest - your first mani-pedi? Wtf? You are from Long Island arent' you?!? And Miracle - you don't enjoy it?!?
I don't know what to do with you 2.
(More substantial stuff will come later -especially for you Honest.)
M3: I TOTALLY get EVERYTHING you are saying. A quick thought: you do not need to stand by your ultimatum if you don't want to. I've been there & I agree -it sucks. We do lose credibility; however, I am not a believer in doing things on "principal". You are the one who has to live with the repurcusions, so do what you want to do. I've decided that in the future I will tell my H that he has broken our deal, knowing the consequences & ask for his comment & what he thinks we should do. Then, I will tell him that I have a lot of thinking to do & leave it at that.
And, how are you going to enjoy your couples weekend when you are (justifibly) so upset?
Be back in a few minutes.
I just finished meeting with a man who appeared to be at the point of tears as he explained to me that he had committed adultery, admitted it to his wife & she has swiftly & without hesitation ended their marraige.
Oh, Allgood. Sigh.
There may not be any more to the story than that. I personally believe that 95% of my WH's bad behavior came from being in the A. I mean, he went from being an AWESOME SAHD and a loving, generous husband to jerk of the world who is a terrible parent. At least the good parent part of him has come back. Getting him to find that guy is the #1 reason I didn't kick him to the curb on Dday. I knew that guy was still in there somewhere and his kids need him.
But -- if I didn't have the 8 year old I would have been out of there. He put me through 3 years of hell. I think the first 3 years were more like 2 or 3 ONS over the 3 years and probably didn't really impact him, but he's NEVER treated me well again after the year I spent sick recovering from my BPD episode. He just checked out, wrote me off, patronized me and turned to OW, drugs, drinking, food, etc. And so, because of that A related behavior, I can say that maybe that was just that woman's last straw. Or maybe she's been cheated on before and knows its a dealbreaker.
Just because we try to R doesn't mean there's a backstory beyond the A for those who do not.
it is pointless to think about the would I have married him should I have married him, etc. You did marry him. Can't be undone. Focus your energy on things you can change.
I've been guilty of this thought train too. you just need to thought stop about it. heck, I've even been guilty of the maybe I should have tried harder with XH thought train...
I, my dear, am going to compartmentalize.
My IC (old one) suggested I think about just saying "hey, you broke the agreement and I said we'd D if you did. I don't really want a D but if I cry wolf I'm not going to ever have any credibility with you ever again..." and see what happens.
Allgood, sounds like you agree with my IC. I do too, but I have no idea how to do that without seeming lame and pathetic.
I might want to point out the 10 or 11 times known to me that WH has cried wolf ... promising to be faithful or that he is faithful
We can't have sex unless its an exclusive relationship (when dating)
Swearing the flirty e-mail to XHSGF is nothing and she lives a 1000 miles away and he won't do it again
Swearing he's looking at Adult Friend Finder because it's free porn
Getting married AGAIN in the church
Convincing me he hadn't had sex with OW when she said they had at the beach
Swearing the 1200 texts to XHSGF were innocuous and they were just friends and accusing me of being controlling and jealous...
Claiming there was no A when I confronted him with the naked pic and text
Swearing he wouldn't see OW again and would follow the agreement on Dday
maintaining there is nothing between him and XHSGF and that he didn't know the picture she sent was against the agreement
Claiming he didn't know responding to a text from XHSGF was against the agreement
m3: you could yell at me all you like, i promise i will not take anything personally...if it helps i say gor for it...pretend i am him and say everything you want to without censure.....
as for going through with something just because you said so, well, will it give you regrets if you do it...just tell him that your ic said you need to give him more time to get his act together and to not act until baby paddy is at least 6 months old because of hormones and to add to that because you will be starting with a new ic, no permanent decisions and/or choices will be made at this time...doesn't mean that you will forget all or any, you will just not decide anything now....tje dealbreakers may very well stay that way, but until you have a clear head and can make this decision without having unfinished business no decision will be made...and further breaches of the agreement will not bode well for a "r".....
i will be back later....
She is, as always, a joy. Her smile is AMAZING. She is so happy and babbles and giggles all the time.
And, she is growing like a weed. She has grown 7 1/2 inches since her birth and has gained 9 pounds -- and she'll be 4 months on Saturday.
I posted some song lyrics on the wall of the bedroom I am decorating for her:
In my daughter's eyes, everyone is EQUAL. Darkness turns to light, and the WORLD is at PEACE. This MIRACLE God gave to me, gives me STRENGTH when I am WEAK, I find REASON to BELIEVE, in my daughter's eyes.
It's a Martina McBride song.
I did contact the priest. Didn't hear back. Don't know if he's on vacation or if he's trying to make me work it out by myself.
m33....not quite sure of where things stand with your husband...is he remorseful? has he seen the light? is he being transparent about everything? is he willing to go to IC/ MC... possibly SA mtgs.???
does he want to save the marriage? or is he still in the 'fog'?
at this point all you can do is tell him what your expectations are for your marriage...time for some tough love....
and I feel so bad that you are dealing with all of this crap... with a beautiful new baby at home..
this time of your life should be happy, calm...filled with love....
and, unfortunately, you are dealing with his toxic crap!
Are you in IC?
ats... UKgirl... Allgood...
we are struggling with that never ending roller coaster of emotions... that reconciliation after a LTA is....
one day I feel so hopeful and positive... other days... I regret the fact that I did not follow through with my divorce 3 yrs ago...
so, I totally understand questioning things when you hear of someone taking a quick, decisive stance to divorce after finding out about infidelity.
I always thought I would be that person.
well, actually, I was... I kicked him out right after d-day and filed for divorce...
but, I never expected a WH to be so remorseful and to have him begging and pleading to come back...vowing to change and refusing to give up the marriage! I also assumed that there had to be a real romance to continue in a LTA but now...I realize that is not always the case...my husband and the MOW were definitely acting out sexually not romantically...total insanity is how my husband describes those toxic years...
just saying that trying to understand what happened...who our spouses were... who they are now... trying to heal from this betrayal... trying to second guess whether we are doing the right thing by reconciling...
that's why we're here on SI.
I takes a long time to heal from infidelity..and even longer to get over an LTA.
Oh...I do know two women that were very quick to divorce after infidelity...and both feel that they made a mistake...that they should have tried to save the marriage...
We did not talk at all yesterday during the day, mostly because I trashed her cell phone. In the evening, we both reached out tentatively, and after a trip to AT&T to get her a new phone we went to a local spot to talk. The talking went well. I was ready for her to just unload on me and attack me about my outrageous behavior. Instead, we had a pretty good discussion of what each of us was perceiving (both were off base) and feeling (defensive). We were in our old pattern of her withdrawing “to give me space” and me feeling abandoned and trying to “win” the argument.
I did learn is that she is terrified when I get angry, not because she is afraid of violence from me, but FOO and first M issues and the fact I am unpredictable when angry. When I get mad to the point of yelling she is struggling not to just hide or leave. I am proud to say I did not throw anything Monday night, so no new holes in walls. We both agree we need to share the uncomfortable issues as they arise and not suppress them. Some of that was involved for both of us Monday. We agreed to some tactics and expectations for when one of us needs to air something the next time and the other does not respond well. Neither of us wants to give up on R, both of us are afraid the other will decide it is just too hard, too much and walk away from us. We both have trust issues. I am afraid she is just saying what she thinks I want to hear or that she is expected to say. She is afraid I will “revert back” to my old behavior (not smiling, not being chatty, etc)
So, here is the part where I really went off the deep end. When I brought up the OM, it was not to berate her behavior, I told her that I thought she was happier with them and she should do what makes her happy. I dared her to abandon me in the most hurtful and demeaning way possible. But that was not enough. After she went to sleep, I used her phone to text “Call Me” to OM#1, OM#2, and BIL. I am not sure what I was thinking other than to “test” her loyalty? So FWW was a bit surprised when her bil called her yesterday to ask if she was alright after getting a text “Call Me” sent at 3:00 am from her phone. She explained the situation to him, and that if he ever gets any message from her phone to his cell he can be sure it is not from her. He apologized to her for his involvement, and she suggested that he should sometime consider calling and apologizing to me. So far, no response from OM1 or 2. As she pointed out to me yesterday, if either of them were still interested it is not like they would not know how or where to find her. She asked why I thought either of them would want anything to do with her. I just figured they would, because I would.
So, we had another really bad patch and closed the anger cycle within 24 hours. Pre-dday we would hold onto the anger and resentment for days or weeks and just sweep it. I told FWW it felt like we had a lot more anger than we used to, and that it was getting/staying bad. I was surprised when she told me she has nowhere near the anger she had prior to dday, and that these last months have been some of the happiest in her life. We both agree my life has become much more emotional, and hence my perception that things are worse. At her IC session next week, she is going to ask the C if he has any ideas for helping us practice or get better at these emotional periods rather than just waiting for the next one.
I am beginning to worry that one of the ‘gators got a hold of dip.
Her legs are a *little* weak, but still in the normal range.
Njgal480, FWW was never one for massages, especially getting them, but recently she suggested scheduling some for ourselves. I think the intimacy/tantra exercises may be working for her. I have always loved physical contact and being touched.
iwantamiracle, it is nice to have you back. I missed you.
There is a lot of talk on SI and in my mind about “deal breakers”, I am coming to realize I will not recognize a deal breaker for me until sometime after it has occurred.
[This message edited by atsenaotie at 12:29 PM, July 14th (Wednesday)]
second and most important, i am amazed at how hard you and your wife are really trying to work through it all, it seems that even though lately you 2 have had many setbacks, each setback has the 2 of you still doing this together and what a gift that is for both of you....it seems as though once you both calm down from the rush of the emotions and "old" feelings and fears you both come together to talk it over and that is an amazing beginning because lets face it none of us is perfect, all of us will make mistakes, being able to communicate especially after the fact is not only not easy but sometimes feels impossible..yet the 2 of you are doing just that, so bravo...
m3: glad to hear about baby paddy's legs, are you still doing the exercises with her? and i am so happy that she brings you so much joy...it really is a special joy that we have with our babies....
njgal: i have this little fantasy that involves a masseuse, only in my little fantasy the masseuse is not a female .....
as for you and your husband, i get the feeling that you are still on a fence so to speak, afraid to jump completely in...and if this is so i certainly understand this...afterall jumping in would feel like jumping into a gators nest in a way...that fear that you will be eaten alive....it really is torture living with the fear of getting hurt again, of opening up only to find out that you shouldn't have....but listen really closely, the regrets you will have should you not take that chance will haunt you....you cannot possibly regret giving it a shot, maybe regret more lost time, but that cannot be helped after all if we knew for sure what would happen with 100% accuracy the fear wouldn't exist, but we don't know and therefore on some level we need to trust the process and pray that the answers will come sooner rather then later....and of course setting your boundaries along the way, honoring them and respecting them
dip check in please...
and fun: haven't heard from you in a bit...have you spoken any more to that other wife?
I shouldn't engage with him.
And, to an extent I think Mr. Dishonest is correct. You have told him, rightfully, that it is over. He does not have to be your emotional support system or friend. It would be nice, but unrealistic even in most circumstances, never mind for someone with the boatful of issues like your H.
I don't believe you need to keep it to yourself - you have your IC and friends, but you need to stop going to him for support in general.
Your H may care, but is too pissed off at you for ruining his life plan to show you it. Remember that men are very good at hiding their feelings. But, the bigger issue is that you have to stop caring how he feels about you. He is not the person you thought he was, he is not who you thought you were going to spend the rest of your life with.
Grieve as you must, but stay away from him please.
I've been hammered into the ground and told it was all my fault
I posted in General yesterday because I logged into myspace...it had been months & I found a message from OW#1
Um, hi. Well, I was looking up something on google & found that you had posted stuff about me on some cheaters site. I would greatly appreciate it if you deleated it. I have children, nieces & nephews that could easily stumble upon that as I did. I admitted to, apologized & responded very nice to all of your emails back then. There was absolutly no need to have done that, especially since saying stuff about other people is downright rediculous. I am continuing to be mature about this whole thing & asking for you to please remove it. I lost my husband, house, vehicle, family, friends, credit & job. I do not think it is fair to bring children into this. Thanks, OW
Honestly, her message made me laugh and then boil a bit. I sadly enjoy that she's peeved and i don't think she deserves anything nice....but I'm struggling with this. She wants me to be consider her needs/feelings yet she had her own A and then knew of my WH's 2nd A and didn't consider me.....she had like 2.5-3 years to consider me & my family. In my head sometimes I just want to ignore the message, delete myspace as I never use it anyway & not take down the post. Other times I REALLY want to write to her & be like "Seriously? YOU, OW brought KIDS into this when you, as a "friend" started having sex with my WH, knowing & being around our kids" And everything she lost.....is because of her choices. Boo hoo. Why should I feel bad for her? She screwed it all up, not me. And her responding to e-mails years ago.....ya, she wouldn't tell me any information because it was too hard for her to talk about.
anyways....then I read the post from HeavyE (I think that's the name) about how maybe I should delete the post on the cheaters site...and then I said, yk....maybe he's right, maybe I should write to her, tell her how I feel yet tell her that I will delete the post for her. UGH. Then I say NO! Why would I do that????? She was never considerate of me.
D-day 3/4/08 Whole "truth" from OW 3/12/08
Ow#1, 6 months PA
Ow#2, 2 years PA & EA
"It takes 3 seconds to say "I love you", 3 hours to explain it, & a lifetime to prove it".
Allgood: Thank you for your wisdom. I really haven't made it 100% clear to WH that we are finished. I don't go to him anymore about my problems, it just that when he called last week, he happened to catch me at a bad time and I blurted it out about my mother. My mistake. I just felt like I was slapped in the face and had the door slam shut on me. WOW it hurt.
WH called today and is on my case about whether me and the DS's are coming for a few weeks overseas for a visit. He's driving me crazy about it. He is renting our house there for money (I actually told him to do this) and was asking what he should pack. He asked if I wanted to come by myself for a week to oversee it and then come back with DS's for a visit (will be visiting aunts and cousins that they do miss. They have been living over there on and off for the past 10 years) He tells me that he wants to rent an apt so we have someplace to stay while we are there. I said why? He said he could store stuff there and that he doesn't stay with OC's every night. He can't take it and needs to get away. I said, so what do you do, get a babysitter and have OW go with you? He said NO, I told you over and over that I don't sleep there everynight. Yet he did say the other day that he IS living with them.
I am so torn. I know the kids want to visit. I do want to get some things I left there. But I have to consider is it worth it?
Allgood, you are absolutely right. I have to stop worrying about what he is thinking or feeling. It doesn't matter any more. I realized I was acting out of fear. I was so afraid that he might stop giving us money.
I actually had written him an email telling him that I would no longer bother him with my complaints. But I ended up deleting it after reading your post. Thank YOU!!!!
It's terrible that I have to hear the same thing over and over again for it to finally sink in. Maybe because I know it's true, but am not ready to accept it?
Miracle, you wrote a great post to me about how we hear things we want to hear and even interpret others to our benefit. I have to print that one out.
I really cannot thank you all enough. I am pretty strong, but I realize that I self doubt so much when it comes to my mother and WH. I buy into all their garbage. I need reality checks because I don't trust myself. That is something I have to work on, and am currently doing so.
I can't thank all of you enough for all your advice, encouragement and support. I really do need these reality checks!!
Ats: Ditto everything Miracle said. You and your WW are really doing great. It's like you guys are travelling a trecherous road together and sometimes you fall. Sometimes you might even yell at each other and blame each other when you fall, BUT, then you are helping each other back up and then are talking about how to avoid falling next time AND how to avoid yelling at one another. Please keep posting about your progress. It is wonderful!!!
M3: I was SO happy about your post about Baby Paddy. That is wonderful news!!!
This may sound stupid, but I suggest that because of the circumstances with a new baby and all, you may choose NOT to choose or decide RIGHT now. Get yourself together first. I do agree with Allgood, that you should confront WH, but tell him that you are going to think about it. Ask WH what HE is going to do about it?
things are going well with WH & life is busy with 2 small children.
there is a saying here at si that nc is nc with everyone...and you are breaking it and worse you are allowing this woman to remain in your life...delete the message and be done with her once and for all, take your power back and keep her out of your life...no good will ever come of it otherwise...
honest: keep repeating to yourself that you deserve the best of everything always...you are a good woman....do not go overseas and do not send the boys overseas...he cannot be trusted and the stakes are too high to risk it
ats and njgal thanks for your input on my thread in general...it is getting a bit heated...i keep reminding myself where it comes from..."pain"...the biggest common denominator of all of here...
He is renting our house there for money (I actually told him to do this) and was asking what he should pack. He asked if I wanted to come by myself for a week to oversee it and then come back with DS's for a visit (will be visiting aunts and cousins that they do miss. They have been living over there on and off for the past 10 years) He tells me that he wants to rent an apt so we have someplace to stay while we are there.
We have a house and a beach house. I found out that WH was taking OW and OC's to the beach house on the weekends, and often took them to OUR house to stay sometimes. This was my anger. OW has her OWN house, all paid, and this house in the US has a home equity loan to the hilt.
He is renting the house we were living in because we're not there and he did say he was living with OW and OC's. (plus he can get a lot of money renting this house) He says that when we come to visit, he won't sleep over thier house, and stay with us, but he wants OC's to meet our DS's.
Sounds so crazy. I'm realizing as I type this, that I'm operating from fear. Fear that WH will get mad and not give us money. Fear that he will be upset. Wow.
I have to weigh which is worse, that the kids will be upset and not understand why I don't want them to visit over there, WH accusing me of keeping his kids away from him, OR risk WH trying to keep them there and really killing me inside by meeting those OC's?
I'm so used to putting my needs last. This is not my "wants" but NEEDS to survive.
I'm so used to putting my needs last. This is not my "wants" but NEEDS to survive.
Thank you everyone for all your help. I have to bang my head against the wall to really see the truth.
It's so hard and I'm in so much pain.
[This message edited by honesttoafault at 11:42 PM, July 14th (Wednesday)]
...delete the message and be done with her once and for all, take your power back and keep her out of your life...no good will ever come of it otherwise...
Miracle- My kitchen reconstruction is still on hold. That's another story. I have been MIA because I've just been a little down lately. I don't know if you remember when my twin sister died last year but our birthday is coming up soon and it has me falling into a bit of a depression. The closer it gets, the more I am withdrawing. I can't wait till this first year of "firsts" is over. I know it will always hurt and that I will always miss her but this year is really tough sometimes. Thanks for asking about me.
Oh, Baby Paddy "passed" her appointment beautifully
ATS - I loved Honest's analogy of the treacherous road and the amazing way you and your W are traveling on this. You are doing so much better than you sometimes give yourself credit for and I am so happy for you and your W. It's a tough journey but when both parties are willing to work through this together, success is inevitable.
ETA - I don't know why this came into my head ATS but after I posted this to you I remembered something an old boyfriend wrote to me in a note and I felt the need to say it to you - "Keep the Faith!" You are really doing an amazing job in your R journey.
[This message edited by forgivenotforget at 12:05 AM, July 15th (Thursday)]