Looking forward to getting to know you all.
So you decided to wait on the Divorce(D)? Why?
I was at the McCormicks Creek State Park here in Indiana. I took this pic...
Is it possible for you to see this as, "Water under the bridge" or in this case.. water over the falls?
If your H can truely see the love you have shown him by giving him another chance, then maybe you both can reach what I call the awakening. The awakening is true mature love.. the kind of love that not too many folks know about these days. Heck.. maybe not too many ever in history!
We have a lot to talk about DevT..
I'll tackle this one...
how a man who is in an affair but still loves his wife and kids can just go off and have fun with another woman..?
[This message edited by trynhard at 7:35 PM, July 25th (Sunday)]
if you are as you say very good at processing your emotions then this process will be slightly easier for you, only because you are aware of what you feel....but none of us can avoid the pain, the ups and the downs....but we can learn our way and make our journey a bit easier along the road.....
i think your plan is awesome, and don't be afraid to modify along the way...
so again welcome to the "tribe"
It is so strange trying to evaluate what type of betrayal is worse than another..but I have been trying.
He always managed to have a little "love affair" with each though...as the E/A was his main goal and the "HIGH of the infatuation was the real goal for him.
We have come a long way in R but I worry about his need for this HIGH and why I could not meet this need for him and how he can ever be faithful to one woman after all of this time.
Sometimes I wonder why I am even staying with such a loser?
Self-deception- is literally a matter of deceiving oneself- and thus raises unique questions.
How can one deceive himself-unless he already knows-what it is that he is deceiving himself about?
Welcome to the newcomers.
PaperRoses: You are correct -compared to an LTA - other things seem manageable; however, I think serial cheating is right up there. In my opinion, the "degree" of infidelity is based upon what is perceived to be the hopelessness of a recovery. So, with LTA it's - hey - these people were in love, did a lot of things that people in relationships do, our WS led double lives for an extended period of time. So, I think that it comes down to serious concerns about the character of someone who could sustain such a lifestyle for such a long time without the internal alarms ringing that it's wrong. It makes you wonder if the person can change. And, I think the same thing applies to serial cheating in that - hey after DDay #1, certain lessons should've been learned, etc. and then theygo back despite the circumstances. Seems like, despite perhaps the best of intentions, the person cannot be faithful, etc.
It all sucks.
At one point, I did say to my H that is was the length of the affair more than anything that is creating the difficulty and told him - I could actually understand a ONS - when in my life would I have ever thought I would say that! But, it's true. I can understand getting to that point, making a mistake, I just can't get to the point, where you don't stop yourself and you convince yourself that a double life is ok.
And a big shout out to Dip - I know there are alligators nipping at your heels, but please be sure to stop in & let us know you are ok. (BTW - this alligator phrase - which I have adopted - really doesnt work here in NY...)
Patched things up to an extent with my friend. So, that's good. I'll never trust her like I used to either, tho.
I'm posting something in R if anyone is interested. I'm relatively ok emotionally - I'm just feeling like... I just don't have "those" feelings for my H. I still love him. I don't want to lose him. But, I don't really look forward to talking to him on the phone, or seeing him when he comes home. I don't look forward to a lot of things I think I should. I'm going thru the motions in the name of R, but just not feelin it. Is this normal?
Tribe. Did you notice the brilliant post by njgal last Friday? She is just so smart and always right. The best part was when she said that I was a great catch. Of course I totally agree and think I will nominate her for post of the month.
Allgood. Yes you are normal. Going through the motions is what we all do or have done. You are hurt, pissed off, and still in shock that your WS could have done this to you. I understand that you still love and care for him, but then really do not want much to do with him. This A stuff really does mess with us BSs. The fact that the WS does not get it and just wants to move on just does not help. The worst gator I have been dealing with is my W. We had a up and down weekend. It wears on a person. No gators in NY? Did the giant sewer rats kill all the sewer gators? I am glad that you adopted the gator phrase. It makes me feel like I have at least done something useful lately.
Dip has to go for now. Be back later. Thanks to all the tribe who have offered their support, and to all who are down today special hugs are in order.
Oh well… during my wonderful weekend at the Park, my cousin got married there. It was the first wedding my W and I attended since dday. I could see her tears when the pastor was talking about love, true love… I had this great feeling of pride throughout my soul when he talked about faithfulness to your spouse… I didn’t asked, but I don’t think her tears were for happiness… but sadness in her cheating me. He talked about how most marriages end up where you treat a stranger kinder then you do your own spouse. It’s so true. Why do you end up treating you spouse sometimes worse then a stranger?
I just don't have "those" feelings for my H
[This message edited by trynhard at 8:31 AM, July 26th (Monday)]
i could totally be way off the mark with this one...it is though how i feel when talking to pfm, and again i am not in reconcilliation so its a whole different ballgame...
paper roses welcome to our corner of si....
DevastatedTwice, I am so sorry for you that you had to deal with this all a second time. Like your H, my W became involved with her OM because of her need for external validation. They made her feel good. She is working on this with a very good IC now, I am seeing changes, and I hope this becomes the new her. I cannot imagine a second round of this. You are right about the LTA. With years of involvement, and in our case multiple OM, it is a very full suitcase to unpack.
I worry about his need for this HIGH and why I could not meet this need for him...
Paper Roses, FWW and I talked about this last night. The rush of power and dreaming of a princess life with OM#2, the giddy love and escape with OM#1, how will life with me ever satisfy after that? She tells me she sees it all as just fantasy now. It humiliates her that she wanted and needed that type of fantasy. She wants a "healthy normal relationship" now. I am not sure how normal anything associated with me can be , but this is a part of our R, her convincing me that after 20 years I am what she wants.
Allgoodnamesgone, I responded in R, and I understand how you feel.
Good to hear from you Dip. NJGal, I ordered the book you have recommended. I am hopping it will help me figure out how to let go of all the past crap. I have an IC session scheduled to talk about this too.
One of the items FWW has had to repair (literally) in the fallout from dday was her wedding ring. It was stuck on her right hand (she joked wearing it on the wrong hand for marrying the wrong man ), and she nicked it trying to cut it off, and finally had it cut off. She got it back from the jewelers yesterday. It looks great. Last night in the back yard after we placed a couple of new bottles on her tree, I told her to give me the ring. She handed it to me and asked if I was going to throw it away. I put it back onto her hand, and repeated, word for word, my wedding vow from July 27, 1990. I have never forgotten my vow. She had always laughed when I would repeat that vow to her. Last night she cried and held me.
[This message edited by atsenaotie at 9:07 AM, July 26th (Monday)]
I just cannot do it yet… I want to and not sure why just yet.. but I plan to do the same at some point..
[This message edited by trynhard at 9:36 AM, July 26th (Monday)]
I put it back onto her hand, and repeated, word for word, my wedding vow from July 27, 1990. I have never forgotten my vow. She had always laughed when I would repeat that vow to her. Last night she cried and held me
WOW you are an amazing man ats, amazing...you have a heart of pure gold...your wife is one lucky woman....
and tryn don't sell what you have done for your wife and yourself short my friend...you too have an amazing capacity to love....
i am honored knowing such men as both of you and you too dip....the three of you have taught me so much of what a real man is.....and i look forward to the day.....well lets just say i know what to look for now....
After the repairs, her band is like new, all shiny and smooth. It fits her well. I compare that to my band. It was never a good fit from the beginning, too wide. My finger and bones have changed over the years to accommodate the ring, just as I accommodated the problems in out M rather than doing something to fix them. It has lost its luster, and has many scratches and a nick from times I did not protect it. Some day when our work is done, I may take it in for renewal also.
I have decided that tomorrow I am acknowledging my 20 year M. I know what I felt, and what I wanted. For FWW it may be a new start, or recognition of the struggle, but as of tomorrow, I have a 20 year (and counting) marriage.
Good for you on your 20 years. It's tough these days to do that...
I am truly glad you two are moving ahead.
Ats - I love your attitude about your anniversary - have a great time.
And, Tryn - don't rush it. I wanted to renew my vows this last anniversary - I even started writing vows a few weeks ahead and then by the time it was the week of the anniversary - I told him I didn't want to recognize the date at all.
But - I agree - that would be a significant step in the forgiveness/R process - can't wait to get there.
Trynhard, you have inspired me a lot through a dark period. Glad to return the inspiration in a small way.
Tonight we had a normal night. No drama, no A talk. We were just another married couple in love.
Thank you for the support. I know I have grown so much since WH's first affair. After that one, I thought I would die if he ever did it again and that I wouldn't be ok alone. Well, after a year alone, I know I will be ok.
This time is different. I have so much more resentment. I do have fear that he will do it again. But this time, it's not a crippling fear that it could happen again because know I KNOW it could happen. If it does, I will wave goodbye in tears and move on. I could never say that before. I guess in a way....his second A gave me something.....the gift of independence.
In two weeks, WH starts a new job. I feel like I am just waiting for the other shoe to drop. Both of his A's were with co-workers. He is getting counseling but I know he's not better yet. So I feel like I'm at the mercy of any girl who shows interest in WH that he might be attracted to. I remember saying that to him after his first A. He adamantly said he could NEVER do it again. Well, he did. And now I know I can survive.
Ats: I absolutley LOVED your post. Not only with what you said, but HOW you said it. I loved how you described your own wedding ring. I also noticed that you have changed the "WW" to "FWW" and that is one of the most positive things I've seen!!!
Oh, Ats, I'm so happy for you and your Fww!!!
Allgood: I think what you are feeling is absolutely normal! The roller coaster is not limited to our bad emotions, but also to every emotion!! One minute we love them to death, the next we are so angry, and then indifferent.
The only thing I would suggest is that you be kind to yourself and to WH. Not forgiving, I don't think you are ready for that, but just tell him that you want to be kind to one another right now. You DO love each other. Your emotions are up and down and this is normal. Kindness, is simply that just being kind. Not a doormat, still having boundaries, but kindness and respect, if only because WH is the father of your children. Go slow from there and don't try to force yourself to feel anything.
I want to point out that I did not know of any of my husband's serial affairs..until I knew about all of them! Yes! Somehow I managed to be completely olivious for 5 or 6 or 7 or maybe more years! He then confessed to his most recent one...because he had fallen in love and could not extracate himself with out my help. He then...with my very strong prompting..went to AA..became sober...and a couple of years later confessed the entire lifestyle.
So, I did not have to go through it over and over again..R..and then being betrayed again and then R and then betrayed! I think that might have killed me! He has not been involved with another woman since he confessed originally ion 8/05.
He has had some boundary issues and is learning about that...but that is coming along.
Again, thanks and I appreciate the welcomes.
Oh and I still cannot figure out how to start a new thread on here..anyone care to share where that button is? I see "post Reply" at the top and the bottom.