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User Topic: Spouses/Partners of Sex Addicts 5
dazdandconfuzed
Member
Member # 11692
Default  Posted: 7:33 PM, December 27th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

7yrs - I really like both of those translations of the 12 steps. Regardless of whether or not you are a religious person, these versions to ME, when I read them, seem more accepting of the personal ownership of healing.

I live in a very rural area which makes things like finding a suitable group, a suitable therapist, etc. a much bigger challenge. It is nice to know if I keep looking, there are resources out there that would be a better fit.


Me - BW
Him - WH

Posts: 6618 | Registered: Aug 2006 | From: Massachusetts
FmrLIer
♀ Member
Member # 29784
Default  Posted: 8:45 PM, December 27th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Please allow me to chime in for a few. I'm so new to all this and a great many of you are, unfortunately, seasoned. The reason I mention this is because sometimes, correction, a lot of times, this SA crap is just plain overwhelming and combined with the newness of finding out the extent of the A's, it is enough to make me want to curl into a ball, but that's not me. I'm stronger than that. So, I'm sure that what I'm going to say willl sound super inexperienced and perhaps months from now I will look back and shake my head at my thought process, but, as a newbie, here it is.

I am forever grateful to 7 for the Candeo recommendation. It has been a complete and total life and relationship savior, and we're just beginning. I've learned so much and so has he. I may come in here and bitch about my H but overall, in complete honesty, he is applying what he is learning in Candeo to his SA and his everyday life.

SA/COSA - I'm not thrilled being a co addict. I think it sucks. I would love to say that I'm not but there are many behaviors that I developed in the last five years of my life that I'd never even thought I would before. I also wasn't thrilled with the whole "helplessness" aspect of it. To me, we acknowledged the problem and now he is working his program and I'm working mine.

I admit, I'm having a hard time right now not monitoring him and his progress. He attends SA, IC, MC, does Candeo, sees a CSAT but hasn't opened his reading materials yet. I allowed this to drive me crazy. Until last night when I realized it was driven by fear of a relapse. Once I realized that if he crosses one of the boundaries and I apply the consequence, it will be okay. I cannot control him or his actions, only my reaction to them.

As for having the same IC/MC; that's not going to work for us right now. I need someone who specializes in not only addictions but trauma because, while it's a bitter pill to swallow, I've been traumatized. I need to learn how to heal from that. He needs someone who specializes in addictions along with other issues he has from previous relationships.

I can say that at this moment, and I'm not naive enough anymore to think it won't change, but, at this moment, I have never felt so loved and appreciated by my SAWH. I feel more connected to him now then I ever have before. He is opening up to me more than he has since I met him and I pray it continues.

That's all from this newbie


Me (BS)
Him (fSAH)
OA/PA

Ignorance was bliss but it wasn't the reality of my marriage...


Posts: 427 | Registered: Oct 2010
heartsore
♀ New Member
Member # 30497
Default  Posted: 11:21 PM, December 27th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I have come to the conclusion that my WS is a sex addict. There is so much information where do I start? I'm a little overwhelmed. There is no SA group local. There are no therapists who deal with SA. What do you suggest I do, where do I start. I need help please.


BS 51 (Me)
WS 52
Married 13 yrs
DD 12/16/10
PA confirmed
R - jsut playing the waiting game here

Posts: 10 | Registered: Dec 2010 | From: Wisconsin
FmrLIer
♀ Member
Member # 29784
Default  Posted: 8:25 AM, December 28th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Sorry you share the need to be here, but, you'll be glad you found this thread.

betrayed7years has compiled a great list of resources, some of them are free online (Recovery Nation) and I think in this thread they are on page either 3 or 4, somewhere around there and then again in later pages.

Right now SAWH & I are in the Candeo program and love it, love it, love it!

I wish you all the best.


Me (BS)
Him (fSAH)
OA/PA

Ignorance was bliss but it wasn't the reality of my marriage...


Posts: 427 | Registered: Oct 2010
too trusting BW
♀ Member
Member # 15459
Default  Posted: 8:52 AM, December 28th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I wish I had more time to post my ideas on 12 step and group therapy.

I completely agree with 7yrs statements about the fundamental necessity for group.
Even with group weekly for two years and SAA twice a week, this has been a LONG hard climb for my SAH.

I would like to talk later, 7yrs about my SAH's idea of a group for more cross talk and accountability with some of the guys from his group.

As far as 12 step and the "powerlessness" idea, I see it not as a cop out, but a true acceptance that the addiction is not a friend, something that the addict can "manage." That it will take over one's life and the life will become unmanageable.
NOt so much that it is something that addict has no control over, or no choice, or an excuse for behavior.

Once it is accepted how much influence an addiction has in one's life, then one can learn to become empowered within themselves, NOT controlled by the addiction.

Hope that makes sense. It's hard to be articulate while holding a toddler and trying to type!


Me 39
SA-FWH 44
11yrs M
In R-maybe
3 DC from Marriage #1
1 DS together
at least 4 d-days

Posts: 1300 | Registered: Jul 2007 | From: Kansas
7yrsbetrayed
♀ Member
Member # 10198
Default  Posted: 12:47 PM, December 28th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I would like to talk later, 7yrs about my SAH's idea of a group for more cross talk and accountability with some of the guys from his group.
My rSA's group is like this. They meet once a week. They're working out of a workbook as a group so that everyone is accountable for doing the work. They are required to make calls to each other during the week. They cross talk during group. It is the ideal situation for my rSA whereas the "anonymous" disconnected SA meetings were not. BUT again, I want to stress that SA meetings DO WORK FOR LOTS OF PEOPLE and should not be discounted! Every SA has to find the path to recovery that works for them (NOT the path of least resistance mind you, but the path that enables them to do the HARD WORK required to recover)

heartsore
Here is a link to my journal entry with the list or resources.
https://www.survivinginfidelity.com/journal/default.asp?M=12&Y=2010&D=28

If anyone wants to copy/paste that for folks in other threads, feel free.
7


Me(44)
Him(46) arthurdent (rSA)
Married 12 yrs, together 15
Renewed Vows 12/19/08
One DD(8)
You can avoid reality but you cannot avoid the consequences of avoiding reality.~Ayn Rand

Posts: 2167 | Registered: Mar 2006 | From: Colorado
runningscared
♀ New Member
Member # 30425
Default  Posted: 2:08 PM, December 28th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm going mad - I'm sure of it - my head is just trying to go in all directions just trying to make a decision.

May I share? I'm sorry to splurge but i don't know who else to talk to. And it'll probably help me think it through as I type. My SA has only been in recovery about 6 weeks but he's trying very hard. He's going to a SAA meeting and an open AA meeting weekly, plus talking to several other members daily. He's also finished the first couple of steps and he's just started a month of complete abstinance. He's going from a 24/7 porn and OW addiction so he's finding it really hard.

We're in separate bedrooms but otherwise living as 'normal'. I was happy to give it a year and see how it went but I've started to follow through a strong attraction I have to a friend. Only a couple of short meetings and cuddles but that constitutes an affair to me. I'm not proud of this but I don't know what to do.

I care very much for my SA and I want him to be happy. These last 6 weeks have been the best that i've known him - he's usually very grumpy, angry, dissatisfied and unsociable. Now he's often in good humour and makes effort to keep himself busy. But, I get the feeling that I don't really love him in a romantic way - he's always made me laugh and we share a lot of interests but I've never been attracted to him. Or, am I risking a potentially great marriage because I've been tempted by a bit of excitement?

I have to say that I'm not thrilled by the thought of SA being a permanent part of my life; I've always taken it for granted that I would be able to trust my husband, and I don't want to be forever looking over my shoulder. But I want to help him get through this and he says it helps him to have the stability of our life behind him. So, if I asked him to leave, even if I only saw it as possibly temporary, it would be a permanent move for him and I doubt he'd stick with the program.

Can anyone lend some insight into what helped them decide whether to stay or not?

BTW, my SA has no idea how he feels about me. Most of the time, he acts as he feels he ought to, giving me hugs and a few kisses at scattered intervals. But Xmas Day started with a few hours of angry threats to move out, start a divorce and how I was "Enemy No 1" to him. By lunchtime, he'd agreed to come to my parents as planned and was acting like we were madly in love. Confused? Me too.

[This message edited by runningscared at 2:23 PM, December 28th (Tuesday)]


Posts: 39 | Registered: Dec 2010
unicornsearcher
♀ Member
Member # 912
Cool  Posted: 4:42 PM, December 28th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage


The real point is that there are now, fortunately, a lot more resources than there was before & knowledge / research in the area of additions in gen'l & sex addiction. There is some interesting things coming out of that work particularly regarding the brain, which will invaluable to address addiction issues even better.

So there is no reason to despair if one solution to many isn't the perfect fit for your situation, it may work along with something else, it may be helpful for some aspects of the recovery but not others, or it may be best to discard that approach & use some of the others instead.

There are a lot of choices now that were simply not available. Even better, there are a lot of people acknowledging they do have that problem or at least a major vulnerability to it, so it is taken much more seriously now than it was even 20 yrs ago with a lot more available help. Fortunately that now includes a lot of free or low cost help.

The programs may have different approaches so take advantage of that to find what works best, especially if what is tried first isn't being effective.

And don't despair simply because nothing seems to be working fast enough, it's impossible to reverse years of issues or addiction overnite. As tempting as it may seem, that would only get the surface issues if that, which would leave a ticking time bomb underneath that surface. The deeper & better the work to be done is acknowledged, the more power the addict is taking back from the addiction, the more knowledge they get on how it was able to lead them around & the stronger will be the ability to face it head on to win time after time.

But not the first week or the second or a few months later either. The addict has to get from a kindergarten level to Ph.D. It may seem like it takes forever & may not feel like any real progress is being made at all. At those times, it helps to look back to see the actual progress being made instead of just seeing how far there still is go. Not jsut for the addict but the partner as well. It's important that the partner also can acknowledge their growth as well as the work to be done there as an individual & partner.

... I do still strongly believe that the SA can't just cop out & say that he's giving it to God to fix. God is not going to do the work, the SA is. But I understand the powerlessness part of it now. In order to begin the process they have to admit that they WERE powerless over their addiction & that the addiction was running the show. Admitting the powerlessness is what allows them to then take the power back & begin their recovery. As spouses we have to look at it as a past-tense statement... he WAS powerless when he was acting out, but now he's taking his power back & working his recovery.

If your SA is not sober he is still powerless over his addiction.

The fact that the addict is not sober is proof they are still powerless handling and/or addressing the addiction & corresponding issues. A sober addict is demonstrating they have mastered control over it, at least at that moment. And if they can do it for any significant amount of time, then the odds are better they can maintain control over it as they get more practice at doing just that. Because not only are the detrimental effects more easily apparent but also the benefits of a sober life becomes even more valuable to them with the hard work successfully done to attain it.

As to the powerlessness aspect, that is a crucial component since there really isn't much doubt that the addition has taken control if the addict is acting out. Most addicts seem to want to think they can stop when they want to, but find out very differently.

Getting to the point where they can acknowledge to themselves then others that it is, is a major issue as it is one of the first giant steps to recovery. They don't have to stay powerless. They can learn to use easily available tools to develop needed coping strategies, develop healthy relationships both intimate & non-intimate, keep better boundaries then before & create a better life which being an active addict prevents from happening.

So while absolutely powerless at the start of the recovery, they can learn how to be powerful in making & keeping better choices much more automatically than they would ever be able to do early in. It takes knowledge, commitment & practice over time. And they should be able to get credit for those efforts. As should the partner for their efforts as well. It's a very heartbreaking, prolonged process to reach true healing for either.

The trail any seasoned addict takes to reach that point may be different in spots for each, but the road still ends up in a much happier, healthy, loving life than would be possible otherwise.

But it can be extremely disheartening & kill a lot of hope when someone new to recovery & their partner if they are or perceive a constant bombardment with the "an addict will always be powerless" message. When in fact, many many people have been able to successfully take control & keep it for decades without a relapse.

They just couldn't do that at the start of their addiction tale. But getting help with a true desire to succeed makes it more likely that they will become very powerful over any issues they have in their lives. Including the addiction, over time with the right amount of effort taking place.

The addiction is like a beast that grew bigger, stronger & hence more powerful over a period of time, often decades. With the right efforts, until it has full control of the host. The beast can be "starved out" of the host by denying it the food it needs to survive & replacing that with things that are toxic to the beast such as a good recovery plan being worked on. This will cause the addiction monster to be much smaller, less controlling & incredibly less powerful over time as well. It may not move out, but it can be imprisoned & kept that way, as many have done successfully for a lifetime.

We attended a full day training with Mark Laaser. He underwent the SA program with Patrick Carnes in '87 & worked with him to help others for quite a while. Mark wrote the first Christian book for SA's.

We saw the brain scans of active addicts & those of people who hadn't been for an extended time (some for over a decade). It was very interesting to see the difference. Mark is working with Dr. Daniel Amen to do more SPECT brain scan study & research to address addiction issues even better.

This is at least partly because they found a high incidence of untreated ADHD being a factor making people more susceptible to SA issues in one research study.

http://www.faithfulandtrueministries.com/resources/dr-laaser-interview/

Articles section: brief update on SA field by Mark Laaser & Pat Carnes. It says that Pat found in his SA study that roughly 81% were sexually abused, 74% physically abused & 97% emotionally abused.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4302347/ns/dateline_nbc/

….So is sex addiction really about the sex? “No,” says Carnes, “but that's the mistake people often make. It's really about pain … or escaping or anxiety reduction. It's a solution.” ….

“The real problem for most sex addicts, they would say to you, I wouldn't know healthy sexuality if it hit me over the head. So how do I know when I am in my craziness & when what I'm doing is a normal healthy reaction to have. And that's part of what recovery teaches,” says Carnes.

Laaser has been in recovery for over a decade. He say's it's a continuing process. After his sexual misbehavior was exposed, Laser entered a sex addiction treatment center for a month where he received psychotherapy.

He now runs a program called Faithful and True Ministries. He still occasionally goes for counseling & relies on the support of those around him, such as his wife Debbie who stayed by his side through it all.

“I never had these real feelings of just running & leaving,” says Debbie. “I wasn't aware that running would solve anything necessarily.”

Their relationship eventually strengthened. They dealt with some of the loneliness Laaser felt & both found comfort in their religious faith. “Now that Debbie & I are more spiritually intimate, sex in our relationship is totally satisfying,” says Laaser. His work has also helped him. He is again counseling others -- including men with problems like his.

Why can't people just stop?

So why can’t people just stop these behaviors? If there's no drug or chemical involved, how is sex addiction like drug addiction or smoking? “When you have a compulsive gambler,” says Carnes, “you’re not taking a chemical. ... In other words, we produce chemicals in our brain whether we use an outside chemical or not.”

New studies, like one at Vanderbilt University, are being conducted to determine if brains of sex addicts are somehow different, & if sex addiction is a true, measurable disorder.

Yet despite growing interest in such research, there are still some who do not believe it is a true addiction. The American Psychiatric Association's diagnostic manual, for example, does not list sex addiction as a disorder. “That book is always changing,” says Carnes, “and a consensus is starting to build. People who work in the addiction realm are starting to get a common agreement about how to start describing this.”

But, however the scientific debate works itself out, people like Ferree, Karen & Laaser want to help other people suffering from the same compulsions. They want people to know how to recognize the problem & discover that there is hope.

http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2010/march/27.61.html

Transforming the Brain: In 'Wired for Intimacy,' William Struthers says there's a chemical reason why pornography is addicting. Book Review by Mark R. Laaser

William Struthers, a neuroscientist and professor of psychology at Wheaton College, has written a book to help us avoid becoming seduced in a culture where pornography can invade our homes.

The bad news, he argues in Wired for Intimacy: How Pornography Hijacks the Male Brain (InterVarsity), is that the human brain can be chemically hijacked by pornography.

The good news is that the apostle Paul was right: The brain can be transformed by a renewed commitment to sanctification. Yes, I mean the brain, not just the mind. This book demonstrates that, while the process of transformation is based on a spiritual commitment of the mind to Christ, the result will be an anatomical rewiring of the brain.

To explain how this process works, Struthers goes into detailed descriptions of the anatomy & physiology of the brain. Beware: without some patience, wading through this material might feel like sitting through a biology class.

While some of the material is daunting, it's also fascinating evidence of the magnificent complexity of God's creation. There are more nerve cells in the human brain than stars in the universe. While many of us have been taught that we can find ways to improve other parts of our bodies, like the heart, how many of us know that we can develop spiritual habits that benefit our brains?

For me, an addictionologist, the chapter titled "Your Brain on Porn" is one of the best explanations of how a person becomes addicted to the neurochemicals involved in love, romance, sexual arousal, & human touch.

Addiction assumes that the brain becomes neurochemically dependent (tolerant) & will therefore crave activities, such as looking at pornography, that elevate those neurochemicals. This explanation gives scientific credibility to why "just looking" at pornography can never be done without consequences.

It suggests that Internet porn is the crack cocaine of sexual addiction.

One question I am frequently asked is, "Is masturbation a sin?" Struthers believes, as I do, that whatever one believes about it morally, masturbation is "playing with neurochemical fire."

In other words, even if you can masturbate without "lusting in your heart," you cannot escape the consequences of addiction if masturbation becomes routine.

Contrary to what our culture teaches, more sex is not better. The truth is that, for the human brain, there is never enough sex. Struthers does a good job in the second half of the book showing how the pursuit of spiritual intimacy in marriage is a true form of masculinity &, as such, will allow any amount of physical sex to be satisfying.

My one disappointment was the relative lack of practical advice on what to do to recover from addiction & walk the path of personal holiness.

Struthers offers some suggestions, including a willingness & commitment to change, confession, having a spiritual mentor, & envisioning a better life.

Those of us who are addicts, however, have already been discouraged by spiritual answers that are too vague or too easy. Nevertheless, Wired for Intimacy is a valuable contribution to our field.

Perhaps Gene Roddenberry was wrong in the introduction to Star Trek; the "final frontier" may not be space. It may be the human brain.

Mark R. Laaser, along with his wife, Debbie, are the founders & leaders of Faithful and True Ministries, an outreach to the sexually addicted.

Related Elsewhere: [Links at site]:
Wired for Intimacy is available from ChristianBook.com & other book retailers.
InterVarsity Press has more on the book, including an excerpt.
Stuthers has a blog discussing his research.

Previous articles related to pornography and sexuality & gender include:
Help for the Sexually Desperate | More and more, Christian men are admitting they've been caught in a vicious cycle. (March 7, 2008)
Overcoming Inertia on Porn | Sexual images of children are the target of Canadian Christian campaign. (September 1, 2003)
Editorial: We've Got Porn | Online smut is taking its toll on Christians. What is the church doing about it? (June 12, 2000)


11/02 Busted WH 4+ cheating yrs, 11/06 Busted [Month Long Lustfest]. 2/1/08 admits false version of betrayals, so no full disclosure / "whole truth" yet. '09 Together, great work in progress. '12 Still gladly united.

Posts: 14209 | Registered: Jan 2003 | From: Calif
dazdandconfuzed
Member
Member # 11692
Default  Posted: 5:53 PM, December 29th (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

runningscared - I'll dip my toe in here. It sounds to me like you are a WS now, with everything that goes with it. If you were to read this on any other forum in here, how would YOU respond?

But, I get the feeling that I don't really love him in a romantic way - he's always made me laugh and we share a lot of interests but I've never been attracted to him.

That sounds to me like fogspeak, maybe even a little re-writing marital history. I can't say for sure what is in your heart, but I can tell you if a WS over in the WS forum posted that - all the other WS would jump all over that. It is just my humble opinion, but I think you need to go NC with your AP, and tell your H. There is no clear way to make any decisions about your M when you are letting a third person enter it.

I'm sorry you are hurting.


Me - BW
Him - WH

Posts: 6618 | Registered: Aug 2006 | From: Massachusetts
FmrLIer
♀ Member
Member # 29784
Default  Posted: 1:11 PM, December 30th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I posted this in General too. Just need some support.

***cursing to follow***

He slipped. A woman’s intuition is a powerful thing. I felt it, and when he showed his tells, I knew it. He called me and gave me one of his tells which started a trigger – heart racing and all that nonsense, so I did my deep breathing and calmed down. He called again later and asked if I was ok, I told him I was triggering but would be fine by the time he got home. I found another tell at home too, so I trusted my gut and did my search. So, he gets home, acting all peachy and shit. I drag his ass into the bedroom and start by asking how IC went. Hoping he’d bring up the slip because it was about Gorsky’s recovery and relapse. Initially the subject was started by him. He said I should be proud of him, he went to a site he remembered and then gave the name. It’s a t-shirt site but they have contests and the photo submission border heavily on erotica. He went on to say that he didn’t stay, but, got off the site and he didn’t MB. I told him that I give him kudos about not MB, that’s a great thing. However, I let him know I was disappointed he didn’t do what he had promised, call me, text me, as soon as the slip happened – this is to prevent it from going any further.

Then when we talked about it further he blameshifted and then lied even more. In actuality, he went to the site, looked at their pics one by one, was on the “almost porn” section for close to 20 minutes and then deleted his history. He says its because he didn’t want it in his history the same reason an alcoholic doesn’t want beer in the fridge. Whatever, I don’t believe that for a fucking minute. He didn’t want to get caught. So, I came home, played detective, applied the things I learned and found the history. I’m not pissed about the slip, I know it’s going to happen, it’s part of SA, but I’m pissed, fucking pissed about the deceit. Again. Three weeks out from DDay.

I know that in an hour or so, we’ll talk it out more rationally. But why the fuck does he lie when I just finished telling him I found the evidence he thought he deleted and it gave me all the info I needed? Why lie about looking at individual pics? Is it shame? Is it because he doesn’t want to hear me bitch? I mean, I agreed that if he slipped and if he told me – immediately – then I would be more understanding. I would help him get through it. But, if he can’t come to me when he’s on that slippery slope…then when will he come to me?

The thing that gets me, is I have been so completely rational throughout this whole thing. It’s something I am very proud of. I have talked to him calmly all but once and that one time led to the three DDays from hell. So, I think IMHO, that yelling and screaming at him actually jolted him into reality.

And, as a lovely side note – that ounce of self esteem I thought I had – fucking gone. Again. That along with the progress I had made in building up my trust in him.



Me (BS)
Him (fSAH)
OA/PA

Ignorance was bliss but it wasn't the reality of my marriage...


Posts: 427 | Registered: Oct 2010
heartsore
♀ New Member
Member # 30497
Default  Posted: 1:20 PM, December 30th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Well had a discussion with WS last night about SA. He seemed receptive but I think he's still in the fog and just trying to appease me.
My requirements to stay: Told him no more contact with OW PERIOD, has to remove all his crap off his computer, attend SAA meetings, & get specialized SA counseling.

We will see what happens. Today I was in snooping mode again and found VISA gift cards in his wallet so I went in to the site. It's great they show you the transactions and money put in. He bought her phucking flowers & pajamas. I can't remember the last time I got flowers. Spare me!!

I have been doing so good with my 180 lately but last nite I goofed. We were looking at some music related stuff on his puter last nite and he accidently popped up his yahoo messenger hehehe There she was, well I flipped and deleted her ass off yahoo messenger friend list. Called him a PHUCKING LIAR!!!

I took a drive for an hour to calm down. I think I'm more mad about the lying if that makes any sense.

When I came back from my drive that is when we had the SA conversation.

Thanks all for listening. . . . .stay tuned.


BS 51 (Me)
WS 52
Married 13 yrs
DD 12/16/10
PA confirmed
R - jsut playing the waiting game here

Posts: 10 | Registered: Dec 2010 | From: Wisconsin
dazdandconfuzed
Member
Member # 11692
Default  Posted: 1:21 PM, December 30th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(((fmr))) I wish I had an answer for you, I really do. I struggle with it, too. If I get mad, cry, flip out he will minimize, lie, trickle truth. If I am calm, collected and rational, he will minimize, lie and trickle truth. I think we need to stop looking for logic when there obviously just isn't any.


Me - BW
Him - WH

Posts: 6618 | Registered: Aug 2006 | From: Massachusetts
FmrLIer
♀ Member
Member # 29784
Default  Posted: 3:34 PM, December 30th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks dazed. You bring up such a valid point. No matter which way we handle things, it still ends up the same LOL

Well, we talked...and talked...and talked some more. Things are better, not great, but good. He has work to do with his triggers and was in a total defense mode when we talked the first time but he went onto his Candeo and journaled and thought for a while and realized he was ashamed to admit that what he thought in control he didn't.

The good part is, he is going to seek a sponsor at tomorrow's SA meeting and maybe even share for the first time. He's finally realizing that I'm not a total bitch...just enough of one to keep myself protected.

I told him it was strike one on lies and if he got to three, I was done.

He also mentioned not wanting to share his slip in a text. Not sure about that, but, I made sure he understands that he has to let me know.

So, all is good. And, that's a good thing cause we're off to the gun range! Yee Haw!


Me (BS)
Him (fSAH)
OA/PA

Ignorance was bliss but it wasn't the reality of my marriage...


Posts: 427 | Registered: Oct 2010
cleo
♀ Member
Member # 9000
Default  Posted: 9:47 PM, December 30th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(((FmrLIer)))

Thoughts and prayers are with you.....this is just one hell of thing to have to deal with!


BS(me)54
WS(him)52 - diagnosed SA in 2011
Filed for Divorce 11/12 - he is still chasing women
Disclosed 14 affairs beginning 1 year after our marriage in 1986

Posts: 748 | Registered: Dec 2005 | From: Texas
cleo
♀ Member
Member # 9000
Default  Posted: 9:47 PM, December 30th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(((FmrLIer)))

Thoughts and prayers are with you.....this is just one hell of thing to have to deal with!


BS(me)54
WS(him)52 - diagnosed SA in 2011
Filed for Divorce 11/12 - he is still chasing women
Disclosed 14 affairs beginning 1 year after our marriage in 1986

Posts: 748 | Registered: Dec 2005 | From: Texas
too trusting BW
♀ Member
Member # 15459
Default  Posted: 8:02 AM, December 31st (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

FrmrLier,

What a very frustrating point you are in your journey.

Addicts lie. It's what they do. My SAH (and honestly, me too) is still struggling to recognize that omission is a lie, and a lie is a lie even if he "didn't do anything wrong."
THeir rationalization process is mind boggling sometimes.

Your SAH will lie again in these early days.

A word of caution: giving "kudos" sets you up for a repeating cycle of cheerleading and disappointment when he "slips." If you are responsible for cheering him on, you are responsible for not encouraging enough when he does choose to act out.
I had the hardest time learning that part of the dance I needed to change.

Whether he MB or not right at that time is beside the point. Your SAH apparently went to a site that he has acted out with before. As you continue learning about SA, you will learn that "acting out," can mean different things, and is not a simple matter.

WHile you will learn about it, it isn't your job to define his slippery slopes or inner and middle circle behaviors.
You can only set your own boundaries and take care of yourself.

One big thing is that you are learning to trust yourself to just "know" when something is off. You do not need proof.

I can't remember if 7yrs' resources page has the boundaries website, but I depended on that for quite a while to help me begin the process of learning to set my boundaries and take care of me VS trying to "teach" my SAH.

Hope this wasn't disjointed. I always want to post to members, and figure I should do so, even if I only have a few minutes. 7yrs and her wisdom really helped me learn to focus on myself.


Me 39
SA-FWH 44
11yrs M
In R-maybe
3 DC from Marriage #1
1 DS together
at least 4 d-days

Posts: 1300 | Registered: Jul 2007 | From: Kansas
unicornsearcher
♀ Member
Member # 912
Cool  Posted: 8:41 AM, December 31st (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

We're in separate bedrooms but otherwise living as 'normal'. I was happy to give it a year & see how it went but I've started to follow through a strong attraction I have to a friend. Only a couple of short meetings & cuddles but that constitutes an affair to me. I'm not proud of this but I don't know what to do.

I agree that the line has already been crossed with this "friend" & therefore, NC should be put in place.

If you agreed to give it a year, geting sidetracked like that is not going to help & will make a difficult situation that much more challenging. You have enough issues to deal with as it is, with your own healing, dealing with an addict & the uncertainty of the marriage. Don't you think that concentrating on those without adding the complications of a third party will help you deal more effectively with what's already on your plate?

Is this "friend" someone that knows you are married and/or the problems you are having at home? Personally, I would be very leery of someone that would take advantage of someone married & particularly vulnerable with serious problems at home. That is not what a true friend does.

I'm glad you were able to admit that you are on the slippery slope yourself. That shows you are aware that you have wandered into a danger zone. From what you have written it doesn't sound like you have gone too far with this "friend" physically but the fact you are attracted to him & that he is willing to let you get physically and/or emotionally involved with him (even to the extent you have), negates his ability to be a good friend to you right now, if at all.

A good male friend will be even more careful to maintain proper boundaries especially in your vulnerable state, not make things even more confusing for you.

I'm sure the others will agree that giving yourself a year of learning & healing (after a betrayal trauma even without SA issues in the mix), will only be a benefit to you regardless of what happens with your WS or your marriage.


11/02 Busted WH 4+ cheating yrs, 11/06 Busted [Month Long Lustfest]. 2/1/08 admits false version of betrayals, so no full disclosure / "whole truth" yet. '09 Together, great work in progress. '12 Still gladly united.

Posts: 14209 | Registered: Jan 2003 | From: Calif
torn2bits
♀ Member
Member # 28376
Default  Posted: 10:27 AM, December 31st (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hello everyone, well I am still here. My SAWH is finally out of the house. What has he been doing? Texting me and calling me saying I love you and I know you love me. At other times he is saying "I know you don't want me to be around".

I don't know what to make of this. I feel guily at times because I miss him so much, I cry and he asks me "why don't you want me in the house?". Its because I truly believe he is still going to see OW and the lies, the lies the lies.

He is in proving mode where every time I am on the phone with him about the kids he says I did not do what you say. I have done nothing. He says "just do what your going to do". I told him that I loved him and that has not changed.

Its terrible because I can see how others have started to have a "friend". I am lonely, I want to have sex with him, I want to be close to him but not while he is still with OW!

I am able to breath a little easier with him out and not be involved in his fluctuating emotions. He is angry alot, not just crabby but rageful. He says I have no faith in him. I don't know what these things mean.

He has asked me "why do you hate me?, Why don't you want me at the house?" He asked me last nite to share the house with him every 2 weeks. Its like he is trying to get close to me but I think he is with the OW. This is so horrible.

We are both in IC and he has asked for MC right now but I am not ready. I love him so much but can't make sense of what he is saying. I think that he is worried about his reputation at church more than our M, but why would he want to go to MC?

I don't know if I should ask to be close to him while we are separated because I don't know "for sure" if he is still with OW or not.

All I know is that he is not asking me out, just telling me he loves me every night he calls for the kids.
He says "I am getting the help I need and I pray you are getting the help that you need". What the heck do I need help for?

I don't know what to make of these statements afer he called the police on me 2 weeks ago and told me to get out and that he is not paying for anything, etc.

Yes, why do I want to be with this man is what I am hearing from everyone else. I love him and can see the traits I married him for.


Me: 44/WH (SA): 49
M: 24 years 3 kids over 10 yrs old
EA/ PA Dec. 2009 -Divorce pending

Posts: 1240 | Registered: Apr 2010 | From: Midwest
unicornsearcher
♀ Member
Member # 912
Cool  Posted: 10:38 AM, December 31st (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Well, it sounds like you have a heck of a challenge going on between trying to take good care of yourself & letting WS keep a place in your heart he hasn't cherished, protected or made a priority to make sure is a good one for you. If he hasn't done the work to make a good marriage possible, then one will be impossible. Then where will you be?

You are right to resist his attempts to gain ground he hasn't made the proper effort to get, hard as that is for you. It would be worse to put yourself back into the nitemare you struggled so hard to get free of & which he refused to make any better the way he could have.

Hang in there!


11/02 Busted WH 4+ cheating yrs, 11/06 Busted [Month Long Lustfest]. 2/1/08 admits false version of betrayals, so no full disclosure / "whole truth" yet. '09 Together, great work in progress. '12 Still gladly united.

Posts: 14209 | Registered: Jan 2003 | From: Calif
torn2bits
♀ Member
Member # 28376
Default  Posted: 11:28 AM, December 31st (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I know what you are saying is true and right. He still lies, won't admit to anything but TT has been going on since last year.

I feel as though I am in limbo. He keeps pushing to get back into the house but that would be a definite step back for me.

I told him that we will just work on ourselves and be separate for a while and then come together in MC.

Either way I agreed to a few sessions of MC because we need to have peace, we have 3 kids.

I just want "life" back ya know, sex, dinner out, kissing,companionship. Its terrible that I am such a faithful person! I have this man I have been with for 23 years and I am getting nothing right now...absolutely nothing from him except financial support and help with the kids.

Do I attempt to bond emotionally with him during this period or not?

[This message edited by torn2bits at 11:30 AM, December 31st (Friday)]


Me: 44/WH (SA): 49
M: 24 years 3 kids over 10 yrs old
EA/ PA Dec. 2009 -Divorce pending

Posts: 1240 | Registered: Apr 2010 | From: Midwest
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