I think you are recognizing the things that you need right now to feel safe.
Spend some time really examining your feelings, feeling them, and then ask yourself if you are capable of giving yourself those things. The companionship, the dinners out, what are those "really" giving you? How can you get that same thing from within?
I feel good inside when I try to bond with him. Before he moved out, we cuddle in bed a few nights and it was wonderful. But I ask myself if that is just a comfort zone.
If I really look at things I question whether he really loves me or his saying that means "you are still useful to me". Its a hard pill to swallow.
I enjoy being married. I love life. I am an extravert. I am the person who gets up to dance by myself when I am not drunk. I am the karaoke person. I go out but I think it has to do with I want him. I know he can get past this if he puts forth more effort. Maybe I am fooling myself and should really just move on.
Part of the program he's in suggests that he emails me his progress in the program as he concludes each section. I'm going to rely on that and instead of being responsive both verbally and written, I'll just thank him for the progress report and leave it at that.
I did see a boundary example in the Healing Library and used that as a guideline. Mine was super detailed and I had him sign it and we each have a copy so there are no doubts or excuses of misunderstanding.
Ignorance was bliss but it wasn't the reality of my marriage...
I want to again thank all of you. Even when it seems like I'm disregarding the information you guys are giving me, I'm not. A lot of it is stored away for future reference. I know that all of you speak from experience and I know that when I'm having a good day, there's nothing more I like to so then get on here and share with others.
From the bottom of my heart, I thank all of you.
I guess it takes all I have to put on a brave face in daily life.
Torn, I think it would be a good idea perhaps for you to go thru some of your past posts to get some perspective on which steps would be best for you now?
he has called twice on me saying he felt threatened by me & that I was hitting him!... He called on me today [the police] & threw a bag of canned goods at my head. He also told the kids yelling that I filed even when we agreed we would sit them down together later.
That was what you wrote just on 12/11 & indicated that there are serious issues which make it impossible for you to rebuild, maintain or create any further healthy emotional bonds with him. Its hard to turn off the feelings you have had for him over so many years & he is the father of your children, you can't have a good marriage by yourself. And the things he's been doing are not things to bring you together, but the opposite, sadly enough.
I hate to tell you that it sounds like your efforts would be better put to dealing with your own feelings & that of your children, until if or when your WS doesn't take you, your family & your marriage seriously. But it certainly doesn't sound like he's had any sort of ephiphany since the middle of Dec when he was actually physically assualting you with canned goods.
I realize you are stuck with the mtg issue with having to interact with him, & you obviously have no control over him. Yet I think it would be good if you could figure out some strategies you could put in place that would keep you out of harm's way especially if he is looking to pick a fight. He's already trying to look like he's a victim, claiming to be afraid of you. He's not afraid of treating you very badly including throwing things at you which could seriously injure you (or your kids if they walked in the way of them).
I wish there was something more hopeful to tell you, other than you & your children deserve a wonderful life. Right now, it doesn't look like it can include him. I hope you have a nice time with your kids & can start off this year with all the strength & wisdom which you need.
It is VERY hard to stay away from him and I am trying to go NC with him. He keeps coming at me now telling me that when he threw the food at me it was an "emotional" response. He did apologize in a few emails since then and is telling me he loves me,etc. He picked up the kids just now and came up to my room and knocked on the door saying "Can I come in?" I did not answer. Then he said I am picking up the kids.
I think he just wanted to see me.
Cleo, I feel your pain. This was the first time in 23 years I did not spend holidays with SAWH. My dear sisters, just like yours were there to keep me dancing and smiling. I had a great New Years Eve at my cousins with all the food and the kids, everything. I came home at 2AM!!! My house is a wrwck but I am goin to the show and out to eat by myself today! If WH would not try to get me in the pit of pity and despair I think I could get over him. Thank goodness he is out of the house!!!! Happy New Year! Wishing that we all find our strength and esteem in 2011 and much Health and Happiness to us all!! Its about YOU, me and the wonderful Faithful people we are!
Glad you had a good NYE with your family!
I have a question for anyone with some insight on Iphone GPS and accountability.
I know my SA is getting a GPS on his phone for me to monitor his whereabouts. Now I did not ask for this, and truth be told, it really means nothing to me as I know he can just forward his phone to another or use a Go phone (which I found in the computer history that he was looking at Go Phones three weeks ago.)
I honestly am so sick of being a detective and being like his mother following his every move....I just don't really think the GPS is necessary...it doesn't really give me any comfort or feeling of security. He has always just figured out how to get around accountability.
Should I tell him this or just let him do and and praise him for his willingness to be accountable. Sometimes I just wish I could be brutally honest without feeling like somehow I am downplaying his efforts at recovery or messing up his recovery by being negative. Do I have to stuff my feelings so he can get better???
SO tired of dealing with all this miserable stuff.
It's like I'm dealing with 2 different people here Dr. Jekyll & Mr. Hyde. From my perspective he wants his cake & to eat it too.
I was so proud of myself today tho, he kept talking about retirement stuff, etc and I said I'm not making any plans just taking this one day at a time.
Just needed to vent tonite. I'm emotionally in a better place today I think. He's playing us both and I'm not playing the game anymore.
OW starts new job next week WTFS 9-5 so I'm going to try and reach OWH at home number. Man I love that keystroke logger!!!
I have been told by some counselors and others not to snoop......but I can't imagine living life in the dark not know what is really going on. So I am proactive! Kudos to you for protecting yourself with knowledge and I will be praying for you.
I know it upset him that I won't "let" him "prove" it. It feels good to him emotionally to get the gold star, so to speak. But I honestly feel at this point that it's just another way to use me. The good feeling needs to come from within himself, KNOWING he's doing the right thing for the right reasons.
That's just what I chose to do, though. YMMV.
Good luck sorting it out.
My WS/SA is still in the house, although he is NOT going to meetings or in any other form of recovery. We are still trying to tread water financially and are dependant on each other in that regard.
I'm still working on my own recovery--but honestly see my marraige as dead in the water. Although my focus is mainly on self-care and "where do I go from here", I've found myself doing some "post-mortem" analysis this past week. I'm done berating myself for wondering how I missed the signs I wish I would have seen, but now see in terms of what did I learn along the way.
Unicorn posted a few pages back elaborating on a passage from Alanon literature & the weapons alcoholics use. That really hit home for me, especially the addict storing resentments & using them to justify acting out.
Early on in the relationship, I did notice things that were "addict-like" in my WS's behavior. This passive aggressive stuff of gathering resentments was one of them. On the few occassions my WS actually WOULD have a conversation on an emotional level, I was shocked at just how transactional his view of relationships was. "You did or didn't do such and such so I felt entitled to do what I did". "I did such and such for you, but you didn't show enough appreciation, so I felt entitled to do such and such". I found myself starting to cringe when he'd do anything particularly nice for me or gave me a present because I knew it would be somehow twisted into fuel for a resentment.
Just as with many alcoholics/addicts, I noticed a schizm with his ego. There was obviously very low self-esteem (see the first of the Core Beliefs) but at the same time, there was a grandiousity, arrogance & sense of entitlement. I have often thought of this behavior as false-pride, but there may be a better word for it.
People are complex & everyone has issues. I told myself that this was probably just how the male-ego operates.
Over the years, other things caught my notice. He was rather obsessed with ligerie & shoes to the point I thought was maybe a fetish. Back then, there was no internet access in our house, but I found set of file folders in his sock drawer that seemed to be an organized, catagorized stash of porn.
I noticed a box of videotapes on his bookshelf, labled with TV shows. One time I popped one in the VCR & found it to be porn instead.
Something just didn't feel right... There was all of this energy going into pornography, but a weird sense of emotional absence from him. How do you explain what it feels like to have sex with your partner, but feel like there is no emotional intimacy going on? I couldn't understand why I felt a sense of lonliness during & after sex. I figured it was just me...just me and my issues & again told myself that it must be that men are "like that" and I must be having unrealistic expectations.
Another big clue I missed was that when I brought up the porn issue, he'd say it was innappropriate to have in the house where children were & he'd get rid of it. I'd stumble on a new stash somewhere else. I came home sick from work to find him in bed masterbating to video porn that he had told me was thrown out.
The combination of all of these elements kept nudging a gut feeling that there was an addiction going on. When I verbalized that, I was told that I saw everything in that light due to having had relationships with other addicts before--that was where my mind went. It was fairly easy to believe that and second-guess myself.
Time & experience have shown me that my gut was right all along. It took more than 10 years though before I became aware that there was more going on in his acting out than I had been aware of. This was when I became aware of acting out with real women. There were justifications on his part about me not meeting his sexual needs, not stroking his ego enough, etc.
One of the things that stood out to me the most was the fantasy aspect. I honestly don't think he sees most women as real human beings. Looking at profiles on adult sites is more like browsing items on Ebay. Women he has struck up relationships with were lied to without guilt. He told them so much horseshit about himself--like they were no more than a source of ego strokes to him than real women who had feelings & would be hurt if they knew they were being lied to and manipulated.
Both times that I have found out about A's: one PA & one EA--he broke off those relationships when reality hit the fan, and seemed to have no real emotional connection to them or grief over ending things. It seemed to me like they were a source of drug (9/10ths ego boost & 1/10th sexuality) and not real people with feelings--just a supply source.
It took me a long time to put the jigsaw pieces together. Many of you may have had very different experiences, but I'm writing this all down because maybe someone out there is wondering if their spouse is actually an SA and something in my story will ring bells.
Everything you wrote rings bells for me.
That gathering of resentments happened in our marriage, too. Even now, he keeps talking about how we should not "keep score" in our arguments or relationship. I have scratched my head and thought, and I really don't think I've done that. Now I think he's just projecting what he does with that "keeping score" stuff. A book I read called the gathering of resentments keeping "brown stamps". If you are old enough to remember collecting green stamps in a booklet to trade for products, you'll know what I'm talking about. WS admits he did keep this sort of thing going. He admits he did call me up to pick a fight on the phone on his way to a massage parlor.
I remember once when he was talking about how hard he works and how the children and I weren't "grateful" for it. I took it to heart, and found a quote on gratitude which I printed and stuck up on the fridge for us to read and be reminded by. I got the children involved in community service projects. One was handing out food at a food pantry, and the other was shopping for a family for the children's Christmas presents. I took it upon myself to find little ways to do something for WS to show my own gratitude to him for his work.
When he'd said we didn't seem grateful to him, I mentioned I felt the same way. I worked hard and no one ever thanked me. So, now that I look back on that, I get so angry. We had a conversation about taking each other for granted, and I was proactive in a positive way for me and the children, and he went and bought a prostitute. I guess I don't have to be angry; I feel sorry for him that he could do something that selfish and awful. I am proud of what I did, even if I didn't do a whole long list of things.
My WS also objectifies women. He has no problem buying them. He thought he was in great shape when he interviewed prostitutes and hired one as his own personal one. Thought he'd "solved his problems". Then it turned out she was trying to have a relationship with him. She wouldn't just be an object. His counselor is working on this "objectification" thing with him.
Thanks for popping back in to share, Tal. I hope things improve for you.
As for me, I'm taking it one day at a time, and I'm working on me again.
...that really hit home for me, especially the addict storing resentments & using them to justify acting out.
It is amazing, isn't it, to find out certain things are more or less 'standard' procedure for SAs. After D-Day, my H reminded me of a comment I made well over a decade before. At that time, after watching a TV movie on infidelity, where the wife catches the man in bed with his mistress and she says, "Do you know how ridiculous the two of you look right now?" , I told my husband that if I ever found out he was having an A and walked in on them, I'd be tempted to look at him and call him an asshole. Well in the heated days after D-Day, he brought this up more than once....like it had been said merely weeks before his 'Great F&^#ing Tour of 2005/2006'. Of course he told his mistress at the time I had said that, not telling her, of course, when the conversation took place, which just fed her concept of me as the negligent wife...and in the end, his justification which he needed her to feed him over and over again.
Him: My wife recently (implied) told me she'd call me an asshole if I had an affair.
Her: Oh you poor man, wonderful kind soul that you are. She's just so mean. She should be worrying about keeping you happy and interested, instead of calling you names. I would never say that.
Him: Well you know, she probably didn't mean it.... (backtrack, backtrack...I'm starting to feel guilty for trashing my wife. After all, I'm an ideal husband. I don't trash my wife.)
Her: That's very sweet of you, Studmuffin, but you have to know a man like you deserves better than being called an asshole.
Him: I suppose, but.....
Her: No buts. Your wife is mean for constantly calling you an asshole.
And the SA's live porn object, aka his current mistress, justifies his remembrance of a statement many, many moons before, because after all, the wifey just doesn't appreciate him like she does. Oh yeah!! Sound familiar?
BTW, this is all very old news for us now. We don't discuss this stuff any longer.
It's been 4 1/2 years and he is stuck. I'm not stuck; I keep working on me, saving my money and preparing for the day I will have to leave. I did not set my boundaries tight enough after D-Day and subsequent counseling etc. and I'm paying for that. This man is so very good to me in every other respect and I do enjoy my life with him on every other level outside intimacy. It's so sad to know that I fell out of love with him so long ago and he denies that even though in his heart of hearts, he knows. We just went through a crisis with our less than 2 month old granddaughter literally hanging on for her life in NICU (in another country so we could not be there). We were so together in our pain and fear, our prayers for her (we literally prayed out loud together for her), and our comforting of our daughter. The first day I literally fell into his arms and sobbed, while he held me and stroked my hair, being the strong one! With that, it's just so difficult to think of us separating. Yet I am not deterred. I know it will have to happen, short of my sweet, sweet but oh so broken husband being 'struck by lightening' and 'getting it'.
[This message edited by 1Forward1Back at 4:03 AM, January 3rd (Monday)]
mine won't admit it either. Not by a long shot! He recently agreed to give up porn, saying "I won't do it anymore". This was after a MC session where he decided the main reason he'd been emailing women, on dating sites, going to 14 prostitutes and hiring his own personal prostitute was "entitlement", not addiction. So I said, "So...you're just an asshole." During that subsequent conversation about divorce and other stuff, I said, "I don't like the porn", so he said he'd quit it. Just found out a few days ago, he didn't quit it. It's still showing up deleted on his computer. He KNOWS I can find it - I have told him that. What a moron. Our MC said WS hadn't TRIED giving up the porn before, so we didn't know if he could or couldn't. Guess he will find out tomorrow. I am really interested to see what MC says about sex addiction now.
Anyway. My point is that it can be hard as HELL to get them to admit it. Mine says that I didn't care about the porn until I went to the CSAT. I saw the CSAT months before I finally said I didn't like the porn. (I'd been trying to decide my consequence if I asked him not to use porn and he did.)
My WS did the same thing. Some of it he put in writing. Made me sooo mad to be vilified like that.
None of this is fun or fair. Sorry that you have to be here, too.
edited to correct yet another typo
[This message edited by Compartmented at 7:43 PM, January 2nd (Sunday)]
In the book deceived it show of a woman who was separated from SAWH for a year. During this time he worked his recovery and IC,etc. Then they had short and then long dates together and rebuilt intimacy.
Even on Recovery nation it says it takes a long time for them to come clean and that we the partner will be in a lot of pain.
I can tell you that although I am hurting, it is much more peaceful for me and I am better able to detach from SAWH now that he is out of the house. I am able to look at my feelings and whether or not I see him making changes. I refuse to babysit him. Much of my situation has been validated by all of your recent posts.
I wondered if any other SA became rageful (stole your car), turned the tables and made you the bad guy (he had to leave cause you threw him out) and sense of entitlement (does so many nice things except intimacy). My SAWH does all this and will not admit shit. I don't know if he is still with the porn with skin, but I know he has gotten a lawyer to block the divorce I filed. Says he doesn't want a divorce and wants the marriage. He is staying for free at his sisters house nearby and has told everyone lies about me and says that I need to get help. He was leaving notes at the house saying "get help". Playing the victim. Right from the "Deceived" book.
I have to say my boundaries were firm, NC, IC for him and honesty, no lies between us. He started inching the truth one particular day he had to go to court and I told him I wouldn't bring anyone I was dating around the house and neither should he. He also calls the house on Saturday nites when he has the kids to see if I am out or home. WTF? Do they still love us? When they say I am in love with you do they mean it?
In the meantime, I've somewhere to go if SAWH gets violent, which hasn't happened yet, but there's always a first time. I've somewhere I can go now, but my 15 year old DS is in the middle of the school year. I'm not so sure he'd come with me anyway.
I simply. can't. do. this. any. more. It's too hard. I can't heal living here with him. SAWH claims he isn't an addict, that what happened is all my fault. Honestly, I'd rather live alone in a totally bare apartment than live with him.
Will come back & chat more later. Am off to appts. then therapy. I like therapy, but I'm really hurting right now. So maybe I'll be back tomorrow.
"Live a life not an apology." Edward R.Murrow
"I can be changed by what happens to me but I refuse to be reduced by it."