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User Topic: Spouses/Partners of Sex Addicts 5
Fighting2Survive
♀ Member
Member # 28410
Default  Posted: 12:29 PM, January 29th (Saturday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Just want to say thank you to all of you who gave advice and direction.

I plan to talk to my friend on Monday (her H gets very upset if we talk while he is home for the weekend). I still haven't figured out what I'm going to say, but I'll get there.

Thanks again!


Me: BW, 40.......Him: FWH, 40
D-day: 3-22-10
DS1: 11, DS2: crawling
Status: R going well

"When you can tell the story and it doesn't bring up any pain, you know it is healed." - Iyanla Vanzant, Broken Pieces


Posts: 7279 | Registered: Apr 2010 | From: NC
TooManyYears
♀ Member
Member # 26108
Default  Posted: 4:59 PM, January 29th (Saturday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My thoughts on this idea of forgiveness…

I am in complete agreement with 7. I think that one of the problems with the Christian notion of forgiveness (and I do possess Judeo-Christian beliefs although I am not religiously inclined) is that is puts forth the notion that we can love and forgive other people into good behavior. We cannot. It is MANIPULATIVE and CO-DEPENDENT thinking at its finest. People, and this is especially true of addicts, have free will. Addicts who are not in recovery are NOT going to change just because you love them and forgive them. They have to get to their rock bottom place, and even then a large percentage of them will NOT change. If the addict is not willing to own their own shit, see a CSAT, and work a 12 step program then there is NO hope for recovery.

I just wanted to say that I am a Christian and feel much of the same feelings that you do. I wonder if I am waiting just because I am Christian and ask God to make me the wife that my husband needs to heal.

We cannot be the “wife our husband needs to heal.” We can only work on OUR healing. If you are approaching this from the standpoint of saving your marriage, you are going to fail. And when you do fail, you are going to repeat the co-dependent cycle with your next relationship. I know that this is not a popular belief on SI, but we pick our partners. No, none of us consciously said, “I want to marry an addict,” but many of us came from FOO that were so dysfunctional that we picked partners that were also dysfunctional and thus familiar to us. If we do not address our issues, we cannot move forward with healing. It was easy for me to blame my H for most of our marriage for our problems. I do not own his acting out, but I am owning my own shit, too. I did not break him, but he did not break me, either. We were broken people when we met. They did not become this way overnight, and it was not because they met some skank that they started acting out; if they really are SA’s they were acting out long before they met you.


Me- 40
H, rSA- 46
2 young adult children
Married 21 years
Last D-day 9/19/09 (Many before this)

Posts: 496 | Registered: Nov 2009
TooManyYears
♀ Member
Member # 26108
Default  Posted: 5:09 PM, January 29th (Saturday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Unicornsearcher,

I think that a CSAT is the best person to do an age appropriate disclosure on the addiction with the children. That is what my H’s CSAT typically does. In our case, our children found out on the last d-day in a very hurtful manner. It was unintentional, but has had lasting effects in terms of anger towards their father and myself for hiding his addiction for years and playing “happy family”. While I thought I was protecting them, I set them up for more hurt and their own FOO issues. I would hazard a guess that many spouses of SA come from households that had addiction and secrets. Now, I have repeated the cycle with them. It is very frustrating and I feel a lot of guilt and shame over it. This is a matter that a professional needs to deal with. It isn’t something that a book can take care of. Your friend needs to seek out the advice of a CSAT.

[This message edited by TooManyYears at 5:09 PM, January 29th (Saturday)]


Me- 40
H, rSA- 46
2 young adult children
Married 21 years
Last D-day 9/19/09 (Many before this)

Posts: 496 | Registered: Nov 2009
TooManyYears
♀ Member
Member # 26108
Default  Posted: 5:33 PM, January 29th (Saturday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

torn2bits,

How do you deal with the fact that you look like the OW? I look like her and when SAWH looks at me, I can see that I remind him of her.

If your WH truly is a SA (as he is not diagnosed), you are focusing on the wrong things. SA is NOT about a relationship that the addict has with another person. That is a symptom of the addiction. In fact, SA’s are not relationally inclined; it is an intimacy disorder. Sure, they may act out with OP and have affairs, but they are not “the love of their lives”. The addiction is. My H has acted out with OP through the years, but my focus is not on them. See the thing about SA is that they can be acting out with porn, with OP, or even scanning, so we have no idea what the hell they are fixating on. You could be at a grocery store with your WH and he could be scanning someone in the aisle to go home and masturbate to. My H has admitted to this.

What are you doing to educate yourself about SA? Why did you put the divorce on hold, if you believe he is still in a relationship with an OP? What boundaries are you enacting for yourself?

As for those who are “sticking it out until they get it”, that is folly. I stuck it out for years because I thought I was doing the right thing for my children. However, I was not. Instead, I subjected them to maintaining the lie that our family was. I wasn’t “getting it” either. We all have different bottom lines, but if we are staying because we are hoping they will “get it” or for the kids, then it isn’t going to work. Unless an addict hits rock bottom, they will not change. I wish I would have known this years ago. I would have taken the hard stance and separated from him then. Maybe it would have pushed him into a real recovery, or maybe not. Maybe it would have accelerated my healing and saved my kids from some of the chaos that the addiction has brought into our lives. By the time my H hit rock bottom 15 months ago, our lives had completely spun out of control, and there were a lot of undesirable consequences. What I am trying to say, is that people who stay aren’t heroes.


Me- 40
H, rSA- 46
2 young adult children
Married 21 years
Last D-day 9/19/09 (Many before this)

Posts: 496 | Registered: Nov 2009
unicornsearcher
♀ Member
Member # 912
Cool  Posted: 5:52 PM, January 29th (Saturday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm not asking about the disclosure part, altho I realize that there are many children that have had the truth of their SA parent, forced on them in terrible ways unfortunately.

My friend's children are already in therapy. And the mom is asking about the effects of SA on the kids & how to deal with that. Such as the selfishness, anger, etc from the addict parent. The addict is in treatment but still in that "me, me, me" mindset.

How do SA parents deal with providing a good enviroment for the kids when there is a SA that is only slooowly doing the work? The kids know only that the father is being treated for depression.

[This message edited by unicornsearcher at 5:56 PM, January 29th (Saturday)]


11/02 Busted WH 4+ cheating yrs, 11/06 Busted [Month Long Lustfest]. 2/1/08 admits false version of betrayals, so no full disclosure / "whole truth" yet. '09 Together, great work in progress. '12 Still gladly united.

Posts: 14209 | Registered: Jan 2003 | From: Calif
unicornsearcher
♀ Member
Member # 912
Cool  Posted: 6:07 PM, January 29th (Saturday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Too, I'm sorry that your kids have had to deal with the fall out of their dad's addiction.

I know its hard as a mom to see our kids suffering & even more when we see, looking back, how we could have prevented that. But I think you should work to be more gentle with yourself as you continue to do your best for your beloved kids. We can only do better when we know better & you have made such an effort to do that, that you should be able to give yourself credit for that instead of focusing on what you wish you could change, but can't.

I know how hard that can be, but you are a good loving mom. Please don't forget that...

Hugs to you, T & your kids, as well as all of us here & the wee ones under their care...


11/02 Busted WH 4+ cheating yrs, 11/06 Busted [Month Long Lustfest]. 2/1/08 admits false version of betrayals, so no full disclosure / "whole truth" yet. '09 Together, great work in progress. '12 Still gladly united.

Posts: 14209 | Registered: Jan 2003 | From: Calif
torn2bits
♀ Member
Member # 28376
Default  Posted: 6:42 PM, January 29th (Saturday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Too Many Years, I just want to say that I really hear you. I have every book on the SA list and have done the recoverynation workshop for partners. I am also in IC.

I completely understand what you are saying. I was a very, very different up until about 2 years ago. I was very co-dependant. I filed because I will not tolerate even messaging the OW. I halted the D because I really have alot on my plate right now and also because I want to know for me that I did everything that I could for me to heal and leave the M without too much regret.

I didn't really know what was happening a year ago when I really starting finding porn, sticky paper in the garbage, etc. I found out more and more and then after a few months, worked my way to finding the funds to file last September.

I am not the person I was. My boundaries are firm and I won't stay for the kids. He has been out of the house now for almost 2 months because I could not and will not live like that. He gets very angry and would start yelling at me and get physical. I am not going for that. I won't have my children in that environment. We are much more peaceful with him out!

On Christian forgiveness, I can find forgiveness for him and I definitely love him, however, I don't need to be married to him to forgive him. I am a fully practicing Christian and believe that at the true essence of forgiveness it can come at any time for each person. It does not mean that we forget, that we try to control others, it just means that for our own healing we "find" forgiveness and can move on with our lives. Gosh, if anything, he is trying to control me. I am not letting him and he gets angry!

The idea that he sees the OP in my eyes is more about the pain and hurt that I feel. I am not focusing on anything but me and my kids. It just really hurts that even when I seem him briefly to dropoff the kids, he looks at me with tears in his eyes and I get that feeling. Its horrible. Damn, if only I didn't love him so much.

The realization that 2 broken people met and were trying to make a M work is exactly how I feel about us. We both have FOO issues. I am working on mine, he is still in denial. He just keeps saying "I want things to go back the way they were". Nope.

When I look back on our M, WOW! So many AHA! moments while reading my books.

When I have had a chance to catch my breath, then I will start the mediation process. So sad it has to be this way after 23 years.


Me: 44/WH (SA): 49
M: 24 years 3 kids over 10 yrs old
EA/ PA Dec. 2009 -Divorce pending

Posts: 1239 | Registered: Apr 2010 | From: Midwest
cleo
♀ Member
Member # 9000
Default  Posted: 9:03 PM, January 29th (Saturday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

toomanyyears...

Wow, I feel really misunderstood....I will have to read my past posts to see if I mistated something.

I don't belive forgiving or giving grace to my SA will change him or make him do anything! What he does is up to him.

The grace and forgiveness are for my healing and my way of honoring and following the teaching of the loving God I believe in, and to become the Christian person I strive to be.

Cleo


BS(me)54
WS(him)52 - diagnosed SA in 2011
Filed for Divorce 11/12 - he is still chasing women
Disclosed 14 affairs beginning 1 year after our marriage in 1986

Posts: 748 | Registered: Dec 2005 | From: Texas
too trusting BW
♀ Member
Member # 15459
Default  Posted: 9:12 PM, January 29th (Saturday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Unicorn, I read a book by CLaudia Black about what addicts/alcoholics should say to kids. I don't remember the exact title, but it was great.

It was a very informative book, and spent time on the different ages, and different circumstances. I don't think it is really an issue that is a one time thing. A long plan of open communication.

We went to the CSAT with 2 of my grown children for disclosure (somewhat) last year.

Sometime last spring, my SAH did let our (at the time) 10 yr old know that dad is a sex addict, but really focused more on the concept of healthiness and comunication and honesty. Our son was already aware of his dad having a sponsor and having a sponsor and therapy etc.
We have tried to be age appropriate with the info, and keep things completely honest and available.
It can be a hard call deciding how much and when.

Our son is quite gifted intellectually, so we have an even harder time finding the line of how much his brain can understand and how much his emotions can.


Me 39
SA-FWH 44
11yrs M
In R-maybe
3 DC from Marriage #1
1 DS together
at least 4 d-days

Posts: 1300 | Registered: Jul 2007 | From: Kansas
cleo
♀ Member
Member # 9000
Default  Posted: 9:26 PM, January 29th (Saturday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

torn2bits,

You said :
"I just wanted to say that I am a Christian and feel much of the same feelings that you do. I wonder if I am waiting just because I am Christian and ask God to make me the wife that my husband needs to heal."

I really feel that all YOU can do is pray and ask God for his guidance and ask that HE change your husbands heart, and get counseling set some boundaries for yourself.

What kind of wife you are really doesn't matter if your H is an SA. HE needs to address his own problems through counseling and prayer to heal. He has to admit it and then get help himself. It has nothing to do with you!

You also said:

My SAWH is in fact very high up in the church and has thrown himself even more into religion and bible study; even though I believe that he is STILL sexting the OW. He wears his wedding ring

You know, my husband also was very active in our church. He started mens ministry a few years back there. When he finally admitted he was an SA he stepped down from that leadership role. As you probably know, SA's have a very distorted view on things, so they do all kinds of things that are at odds with their values. God will deal with your H and convict his heart, but if he refuses to hear, and to admit he has a problem, he won't change.

Get your own counseling, set your boundaries and continue to pray. You will know how to proceed with your marriage if you do those things!

I am not even sure at this point I can stay in my marriage, I have the full right in Gods eyes to divorce due to the adultery. but I am undergoing counseling with a CSAT and a recovery group for a little while before I make a decision.

Hugs to you.....I know how hard this craziness is to live with. I will pray for you!

Edited for spelling!

[This message edited by cleo at 9:28 PM, January 29th (Saturday)]


BS(me)54
WS(him)52 - diagnosed SA in 2011
Filed for Divorce 11/12 - he is still chasing women
Disclosed 14 affairs beginning 1 year after our marriage in 1986

Posts: 748 | Registered: Dec 2005 | From: Texas
cleo
♀ Member
Member # 9000
Default  Posted: 9:53 PM, January 29th (Saturday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

torn2bits,

I think we were posting at the same time....

you said:
On Christian forgiveness, I can find forgiveness for him and I definitely love him, however, I don't need to be married to him to forgive him.

I totally agree!

Cleo


BS(me)54
WS(him)52 - diagnosed SA in 2011
Filed for Divorce 11/12 - he is still chasing women
Disclosed 14 affairs beginning 1 year after our marriage in 1986

Posts: 748 | Registered: Dec 2005 | From: Texas
7yrsbetrayed
♀ Member
Member # 10198
Default  Posted: 10:11 PM, January 29th (Saturday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

TooManyYears
Thank you for your posts on this page. You often say exactly what I want to say and are far more eloquent than I am.

Everyone, read TooManyYears's posts, she really nailed it.

7


Me(44)
Him(46) arthurdent (rSA)
Married 12 yrs, together 15
Renewed Vows 12/19/08
One DD(8)
You can avoid reality but you cannot avoid the consequences of avoiding reality.~Ayn Rand

Posts: 2167 | Registered: Mar 2006 | From: Colorado
unicornsearcher
♀ Member
Member # 912
Cool  Posted: 10:17 PM, January 29th (Saturday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

There seems to be a lot of confusion about what Christian forgiveness is, much less what regular forgiveness is & isn't.

Forgiveness is more about resolving the feelings of anger or need for revenge, to be able to stop having the wrong done in the past keep contaminating the present & destroy a future being stuck in a mindset that allows no peace of mind or constructive progress, from actions that can't be changed.

There is also confusion regarding not throwing up offenses in the person's face vs. dealing with the harm they have already inflicted which has present consequences. It is not being unforgiving to tell someone that what they did is triggering you or that they should extend restitution, etc. Forgiving is not pretending nothing harmful happened or ignoring the effect in the present those hurtful actions are causing. That is a NEW hurt resulting from the old harm, which needs to be address properly. Which is another reasons forgiveness particularly for bigger harms is a process rather than a one time decision. You have to choice daily which current effects are to be addressed with wrongdoer (if repentant), & which need to be internally dealt with.

For example, if I trigger watching an ad & want to just shame & blame WS, that serves no useful purpose. Whether I want to call it forgiveness or not, I can make a snarky comment about what a lying cheater he was or I can say "wow, that ad was a real trigger & makes me want to cry thinking of all the betrayal stuff like it zapped me with". That gives the offender the gift of addressing their wrong by being caring at the time it is needed with the person they hurt. If no reconciliation was possible, then forgiveness would be thinking "wow, that was a trigger but thankfully I don't have to deal with a lying cheater under my roof anymore." And even tho it may take a some moments of sadness, you try not to let it ruin your entire day reliving what caused so much anguish that can't be undone.

I think part of the problem is that there are basically two types of forgiveness. One in which the relationship is possibly capable of being restored, so that the effects of the harm are dealt with together. The other in which no relationship will be possible, but forgiveness is solely an internal process for the hurt person, which the offender may never even realize was done. There is no obligation to let them know they were forgiven, especially if they have not repented.

Forgiveness doesn't give a pass for the consequences as demonstrated when the Pope forgave the man who tried to assasinate him. It didn't mean charges were dropped or any effort to get the man out of jail. Nor was the Pope obligated to beg the court for mercy to be given to the shooter. Consequences are consequences & while sometimes the offended does ask others for a lighter sentence to be given to the offender, that's not a requirement.

Forgiveness, kindness, compassion & love can all be done towards someone that is harmful without the obligation to keep enduring abuse from them or having any contact with them at all. That may mean that you don't tell private things about them to others that serve no purpose being told, that may mean no revenge is sought, that may mean that you don't go out of your way to make their life miserable.

That doesn't mean you take less than you are entitled to in a divorce settlement, either.

Forgiveness is really embraced in the Serenity prayer. "God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change;
courage to change the things I can; & wisdom to know the difference."

Likewise, serenity & forgiveness are part of accepting people can only change from their own choice & to accept that-- while having the courage to minimize or eliminate any way they can harm you.

God requires we totally forgive others if they come repentant & turn from their sin. Forgiven people become forgiving people! cf. Matt. 5:7; 6:14-15; James 1:13.

Forgiveness doesn't always require reconciliation, especially if there is no repentance.

http://www.quodlibet.net/articles/lamerson-forgive.shtml

I believe that a careful examination of the texts will show that it is not only unwise, but also unscriptural to forgive an unrepentant person.

This analysis will take the form of 3 arguments from Matthew's gospel.

The Argument from the Conditional Sentence

The text of 18:15 states a command followed by a conditional sentence. "If your brother sins against you, go & tell him his fault, between you & him alone."

This command indicates that it is incumbent upon the person who has been offended to go to the offender & tell him his fault in a private manner. The fact that this is a private affair indicates, or at least implies, that the sin is known only to a small (perhaps only 2) number of people.

The conditional sentence is quite straightforward.

Christ says that if your brother hears you (note that Luke uses the word 'repent' which may help to understand what Matthew meant by 'hear') [18] that you have gained a brother. The clear implication of the condition is that if the offender does not hear you, you have not gained a brother.

The offense simply cannot be overlooked.

Otherwise, there would be no reason for going to the person in the first place.

The Argument from Church Discipline

Christ does not leave the question hanging about what one should do if the person does not repent he answers it very clearly.

The interesting thing is that if the offender does not repent, the offended party is not commanded by Christ to forgive him anyway "for his own sake" (to use Smedes language).

Quite the contrary, he tells the offended person to continue in the procedure with the hope of obtaining repentance. While the offence was once private, it now becomes known to a somewhat larger number of people.

The Lord commands the offended person not to forget about the offense, but to take two or three witnesses with him to see the offender again. To simply let it go is to disobey the command of the Lord.

If after being visited by several people, along with the offended party, the offender still does not repent, he is to be treated like "a Gentile & a tax collector".

That is he or she is to be turned out of the community. There are several important implications of this argument.

First, the continuation of Church discipline indicates that the offender has not been forgiven. If the above analysis on the nature of forgiveness is correct (i.e., that forgiveness 'wipes away' the debt, never to be brought up again) then a forgiven person cannot be disciplined for the offense which he is forgiven of.

Taylor states that

"When it is said that the wrongdoer must be forgiven 'until seventy times seven' (Mt. xviii. 22, cf. Lk. xvii. 3f), the injunction is that, because of his repentance, grounds of offence are repeatedly to be set aside; they do not count against him." [19]

Thus the discipline continues from a private matter, to a public censure precisely because the offender is not forgiven. He is unforgiven not because forgiveness is not offered to him, but because he will not repent &, by making matters right, accept the offer.

Thus to forgive an unrepentant offender is to directly disobey the command of the Lord about church discipline.

Second, this passage indicates in addition to the fact that the offender is not forgiven, that the positive obligation to forgive is not absolute & invariable, since that would destroy discipline. . . .

The individual is obliged to forgive if the offender repents (&, obviously, apologizes). [20]

Thus the command to forgive a person who has offended you is conditioned upon that person's repentance. To believe otherwise is to be unable to exercise discipline.

Richard Swinburne, in his work Responsibility and Atonement, gives a philosophical analysis of this question of repentance & forgiveness. He comes down very clearly & forcefully when he says

"Indeed not merely is it ineffective but it is bad, in the case of serious acts, for the victim to treat the acts as not having been done, in the absence of some atonement at least in the form of an apology from the wrongdoer." [22]

He goes on to argue that the forgiving of the unrepentant

"involves your failing to treat me seriously, to take seriously my attitude towards you expressed in my action.

Thereby it trivializes human relationships, for it supposes that good human relations can exist when we do not take each other seriously. [23]

Thus, the implications of the passage on church discipline are clear.

"By hurting you, I put myself in a moral situation somewhat like the legal situation of a person who owes money. The wrong needs righting." [24]

When a person refuses to attempt to right that wrong, the show themselves to be unforgiven, & as a result of that they must be placed outside the community. This helps to protect the members of the community from further harm, as well as (hopefully) show the offender the seriousness of his action.


11/02 Busted WH 4+ cheating yrs, 11/06 Busted [Month Long Lustfest]. 2/1/08 admits false version of betrayals, so no full disclosure / "whole truth" yet. '09 Together, great work in progress. '12 Still gladly united.

Posts: 14209 | Registered: Jan 2003 | From: Calif
Missy74
♀ New Member
Member # 30433
Default  Posted: 1:18 AM, January 30th (Sunday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I am currently separated from my WH-SA (one week today). I woke up this morning to him standing in my bedroom. He proceeded to try to get a booty call, wtf? He said that because we're still husband and wife that we should be able to be with one another once in a while and that he feels like if we don't that I'll just get over him and he won't get me back. Anyways, I asked him to leave.

I'm struggling tonight because I suspect he is out trolling for a lay because he couldn't get anywhere with me. When will I be able to just be without obsessing?! I know I need to just focus on me and my healing but I'm not doing a very good job tonight.


BW(Me)36 / WH(SA)41
Multiple deceptions, most recent D-Day: 09/10/10
Together 6 yrs, M 3 yrs / 2 teenage sons from previous
H moved out 01/02/11 / 01/21/11 we offically S
It's a rocky road

Posts: 19 | Registered: Dec 2010 | From: CANADA
unicornsearcher
♀ Member
Member # 912
Cool  Posted: 2:00 AM, January 30th (Sunday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Missy, I'm sorry you are hurting but I'm really proud of you sticking to your guns & standing up for yourself.

I am currently separated from my WH-SA (one week today). I woke up this morning to him standing in my bedroom. He proceeded to try to get a booty call, wtf? He said that because we're still husband & wife that we should be able to be with one another once in a while & that he feels like if we don't that I'll just get over him & he won't get me back. Anyways, I asked him to leave.

Good for you asking him to go. His thinking is too twisted to address at this point & you need to protect yourself emotionally as well as physically.

Have you been STD tested yet?
As harsh as it sounds, its a good idea to insist on safe sex with an repentant WS, especially when they are SA.

Is your WS addressing any of the SA issues head on or is he trying to duck, dodge & weave around those issues?

Even if you had given in there is no guarantee he wouldn't have had sought a booty call as soon as he left. And his saying he wants to service you in order to reduce your desire to replace him, well that's certainly a respect loving way to treat your partner isn't it? A better approach would be to give you full accountability, transparency & honesty.

I'm struggling tonight because I suspect he is out trolling for a lay because he couldn't get anywhere with me.

If he wanted to, he would be replacing you no matter what. If not physically then in his mind as he replayed porn instead of concentrating on you & then eventually trying to sneak some sort of hookup into his life. No amount of sex with a partner will help an unrepentant SA that's not working on his issues. And if he was dealing constructively with his issues, he could honor & respect your right to say no to sex.

When will I be able to just be without obsessing?!

You know no one can give you a definite answer to that question, but it becomes easier the more you make yourself a priority instead of only being concerned about him. If you haven't read about the 180 in the Healing Library, that's a great start.

And others will be along with suggestions & support too. Weekends are slow here so if you haven't done that yet, you can read the old posts & work on putting a gameplan together for your separation to make it a useful one for you. Time alone doesn't heal anyone, its what is done with the time. You can't heal him but you can work on making that possible for you step by step.

I know I need to just focus on me & my healing but I'm not doing a very good job tonight
.

You don't have to be perfect on doing those things, you just have to keep being consistent in making them a priority. And not letting him bully you into giving in & writing out your thoughts here is a great step too.

It times like this that it's good to have some good workbooks or reading materials to go thru. They don't have to all be SA oriented, just something that you find helpful to you in nuturing yourself. Gentle exercise such a yoga can help, as can strengthening your spirituality. You could also start learning more about healthy love, what a great marriage entails or a hobby or anything that can keep you busy when you can't sleep or in danger of getting too obsessed with what he is doing.

I hope you feel better soon...


11/02 Busted WH 4+ cheating yrs, 11/06 Busted [Month Long Lustfest]. 2/1/08 admits false version of betrayals, so no full disclosure / "whole truth" yet. '09 Together, great work in progress. '12 Still gladly united.

Posts: 14209 | Registered: Jan 2003 | From: Calif
Missy74
♀ New Member
Member # 30433
Default  Posted: 2:22 AM, January 30th (Sunday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Have you been STD tested yet?

Not yet, but I will look into this next week.

Is your WS addressing any of the SA issues head on or is he trying to duck, dodge & weave around those issues?

Ironically, today was his first IC appt with someone in the field. He also tells me that he's going to be attending his first SAA meeting on Tuesday night. He appears like he might be coming to some realizations but obviously has a ways to go.

If he wanted to, he would be replacing you no matter what. If not physically then in his mind as he replayed porn instead of concentrating on you & then eventually trying to sneak some sort of hookup into his life. No amount of sex with a partner will help an unrepentant SA that's not working on his issues. And if he was dealing constructively with his issues, he could honor & respect your right to say no to sex.

Thank you I know this, that's the co-addict in me talking. It's just hard sometimes to truly resign to the fact that I cannot "control the uncontrollable".

It times like this that it's good to have some good workbooks or reading materials to go thru.

Yes right now I'm reading the book "Women who love too much, when you keep wishing and hoping he'll change." I can't believe this book, it is SO me. Out of the 15 characteristics of women who love too much, I have almost every one of them. I wonder how many other spouses of SA's would identifiy with it too and fall into that category? It's crazy!

Thank you Unicorn! It really does help to know there's others out there that care and are in the same boat

Missy


BW(Me)36 / WH(SA)41
Multiple deceptions, most recent D-Day: 09/10/10
Together 6 yrs, M 3 yrs / 2 teenage sons from previous
H moved out 01/02/11 / 01/21/11 we offically S
It's a rocky road

Posts: 19 | Registered: Dec 2010 | From: CANADA
unicornsearcher
♀ Member
Member # 912
Cool  Posted: 2:32 AM, January 30th (Sunday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

You're welcome Missy! It does sometimes help to know someone else understands & knows how hurtful or frustrating life with a SA can be, especially when we try to give them the gift of reconciliation.

All we can do is give the gift, not manage how they treat it or take care of it. You've done that part, let's see what he does with it. The fact that he's got some things set up is good.

And please don't be discouraged when there is no magic quick recovery, but know you can always talk about what its like for you here with kindred spirits.


11/02 Busted WH 4+ cheating yrs, 11/06 Busted [Month Long Lustfest]. 2/1/08 admits false version of betrayals, so no full disclosure / "whole truth" yet. '09 Together, great work in progress. '12 Still gladly united.

Posts: 14209 | Registered: Jan 2003 | From: Calif
cleo
♀ Member
Member # 9000
Default  Posted: 8:46 AM, January 30th (Sunday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Unicornsearcher -

Thank you for your post, you have perfectly clarified what I was trying so poorly to express. As always, you are so very wise!

Cleo


BS(me)54
WS(him)52 - diagnosed SA in 2011
Filed for Divorce 11/12 - he is still chasing women
Disclosed 14 affairs beginning 1 year after our marriage in 1986

Posts: 748 | Registered: Dec 2005 | From: Texas
SabinatheOwl
♀ Member
Member # 30023
What?  Posted: 11:34 AM, January 30th (Sunday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Re: Kids & SA:

I'd advise looking at books about alcoholism- similar behaviors & attitudes on the part of the addict, but the books won't have the sexual aspect. Also maybe look into al-ateen. Kids are positively influenced by their peer group, so knowing other kids IRL who deal with addicted parents is a plus for them. My DS15's HS has support groups for teens with troubled parents. Maybe there are similar resources for your friends' kids?

Re: F2S' BFF

Definitely print out 7yrs' post for newbies for your friend. Maybe she could look for S-Anon or Al-anon meetings? They're free and they emphasize personal growth, boundary setting & detachment. If she needs a sitter so she can get help maybe you could help her? Just remember, you can offer her support, but she is the one who needs to act. If she isn't ready, there's not much you can do for her. Ideally she needs a CSAT or an addiction therapist for her. If money is an issue there are resources out there for her. If she won't even meet you without hiding it from him, that's a serious sign of trouble. Big hugs for all of you as you try to navigate these treacherous waters.

To Missy:

Big hugs to you. Keep standing your ground & continue to get healthy. It's a long road.

To TMY:

Thank you for your thoughts re: SA being an intimacy disorder & forgiveness vs. codependency. They were very helpful to me.


~ Sabina


Details & story in profile

"Live a life not an apology." Edward R.Murrow

"I can be changed by what happens to me but I refuse to be reduced by it."

Maya Angelou


Posts: 1350 | Registered: Nov 2010 | From: Metro DC
unicornsearcher
♀ Member
Member # 912
Cool  Posted: 12:00 PM, January 30th (Sunday), 2011View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks for the heads up on info for kids dealing with an alcoholic parent, I forgot about all those resources, dud!

My friend has filed for divorce, so the kids will not have the dad under the roof all the time but will have visitation.

Right now his kids have not been told about any addictive issues, just major depression.

My H really struggled with the idea that my willingness to forgive him was not tied to my willingness to stay in a marriage that would not be a good one for both of us. He wanted the ex pass for a long time. He had an alcoholic dad & an extremely abusive ex neither who would acknowledge much less try to right their wrongdoing. His ex was a serial cheater who told him they would simply not talk about anything she did. An apology was never given by either.

So it wasn't until me that he got a chance to have a healthy marriage & to work on what steps have to be taken when there is serious issues that have to be addressed. He was full of regret, but took a much longer time to get to full remorse in action.

In Earl Wilson's great book on the Slippery Slope, he talks about how they recovered from his infidelity & started a ministry dealing with infidelity how he & his wife would be told after speaking by some people that she couldn't really have forgiven him because if so, they still wouldn't be talking about what he did!

There are many things that a "forgive & forget" method is best especially in a marriage, but not for something as serious as infidelity. I don't remember or throw up every time my H forgot to order my hamburger without mayonnaise, it was a simple mistake & he's usually very good at getting it for me the way I like. So that is an example of an easy "forgive & forget". I know I've done things similarly that bothered him, but he accepted my apology & doesn't hold it against me.

But infidelity & addiction issues are a cancer that can not only destroy the person carrying it but those that love them if only "cheap forgiveness" is offered & accepted to pretend the betrayal elephant hasn't moved in the living room (& bedroom).

When I did offer my H forgiveness for the infidelity issues, I made it clear that I wasn't giving a "forgive & forget" pass, but the forgiveness discussed in the Earl Wilson book. It was a starting point, not the end of working thru the issues together.

And I also asked forgiveness for things I'd done that had hurt him. That was after 4 or 5 yrs of betrayal hell...

[This message edited by unicornsearcher at 1:08 PM, January 30th (Sunday)]


11/02 Busted WH 4+ cheating yrs, 11/06 Busted [Month Long Lustfest]. 2/1/08 admits false version of betrayals, so no full disclosure / "whole truth" yet. '09 Together, great work in progress. '12 Still gladly united.

Posts: 14209 | Registered: Jan 2003 | From: Calif
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